The whole Era situation is a little messy from what it sounds like with it being a physiological condition instead of a clear physical injury.
So I can understand the team not being sure as to whether or not Era would be able to play or not.
To be clear, physiological conditions are very, very real, and every bit as (and potentially more!) debilitating as purely physical ailments.
Unfortunately, they're harder to get a clear fix on the extent of the problem than purely physical ones. You can see and verify the extent of the damage from a broken arm or torn ligiments. To know the extent of a person's mental trauma? Not easy. The result is that it's easy to be biased against people with mental health problems, and to be unaware that they have that bias.
I hope that Era is able to play. But if he's not, I hope that Valve understands that this is every bit as real as if he broke his arms, and that substitutions should be allowed. Teams are allowed callups and to pick up free agents in most professional sports - it's understood that of a guy has a concussion, he shouldn't be playing. Perhaps the good that will come out of this will be improved mechanisms for having spares on teams in DOTA, or allowing for team transfer alliances. I can only hope.
Shadowhope on
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
The point isn't that Valve doesn't think it's a legitimate issue. Reading the emails prove that they are very sympathetic to that, and have been willing to do anything possible to help Era get to the International and play without trouble.
The point is that Era sent out an email basically saying "I can play," and even with a retraction and knowledge that mental issues can be a serious problem, that could make it seem like Fnatic was trying to play the low-risk hero. The fact they talked about potential payment splits also makes it seem as if Era could be pressured into saying "I can't play, really" after saying he could.
Valve's rules are to protect players, and to prevent any sort of situation that encourages telling a player to drop out after qualifying. The situation makes it seem like there's a pretty fair chance that Era is being pressured here one way or other, and backing down would negate the point of their substitution rules when, unlike Fear, there has been question about whether or not he was truly 100% incapable of playing, or just being subbed out because he isn't 100%.
Yeah. The worry from Valve's point of view is they don't want teams forcing players out for fears of sub-par performance(or alternatively, swapping out "bad" players for better ones). Fnatic's own timeline damns them here. They said these issues started in January, but they were playing with him till recently. It was only a week or two ago that Era announced that he would not be able to make it to any tournaments in the near future. Either Fnatic's management fucked up and had a ill player play when he shouldn't have been playing, or they feel he can play(Era himself seems to feel that he can play, his retraction not withstanding), just not to the standard they want. All Valve is doing is not giving them the benefit of the doubt.
For comparison, when Fear said his injury would prevent him from playing, he stopped playing. He hasn't played competitively since March. They kept some room for him in case his injury improved, but about a month ago they pulled the trigger and said that he would not be able to make it due to the injury. It's clear that EG and Fear don't consider Fear ready to play(or at least, Fear has put his medical condition ahead of his progaming career).
That's the difference, and why EG is okay with Mason, but not Fnatic and Excalibur.
+1
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
From the record of events, the reason that EG is okay with Mason is because Valve knew about the potential injury for Fear weeks before TI4 invites went out. Valve extended the TI4 invite knowing that either Fear OR Mason might play.
Whereas it seems like Fnatic only just contacted Valve for the first time a few weeks ago, at the end of May.
Streamed seven LD games tonight at 4500 party MMR: http://www.twitch.tv/yiliasayr/b/542467351. @Heartlash told me that game 2 was fun to watch (starts at 1:10), and I enjoyed game 7 (4:53) quite a bit because I got 6 solo kills in the laning phase and ended up as an 800 gpm monster.
If Notail's blog is to be believed sounds like Era hit some pretty heavy anxiety issues and has been in and out of treatment for it and his doc is basically saying he shouldn't be traveling or gaming. I haven't read all the emails due to work's filter and not being home till like 1 am last night.
If Era really is having full on breakdowns and his doc says no then it is like Fear.
I think the issue hear is mental issues are way more nebulous than physical ones like Fear's. Though again I need to see Valve's full response.
If Notail's blog is to be believed sounds like Era hit some pretty heavy anxiety issues and has been in and out of treatment for it and his doc is basically saying he shouldn't be traveling or gaming. I haven't read all the emails due to work's filter and not being home till like 1 am last night.
If Era really is having full on breakdowns and his doc says no then it is like Fear.
I think the issue hear is mental issues are way more nebulous than physical ones like Fear's. Though again I need to see Valve's full response.
No, the issue here is that Fnatic waited until May 29th to even raise this with Valve, whereas EG raised it months and months ago before invites were even sent. Valve specified in their invite to EG that the invite was extended to both Mason AND Fear, whoever was going to end up playing.
No such courtesy was extended to Fnatic, because Fnatic did not extend any courtesy themselves.
Still kind of not 100% sure on both sides. Valve's logic makes sense but I can see why Fnatic and Era would not want to risk Era traveling.
I think this is kind of one of the issues around e-sports is we are still figuring shit out an rosters tend to only be the minimum required. It might be time to look at building one or two replacements for e-sport teams in case of health or other needs.
In other words it is Fnatic verse VG time. And my love of Notail continues. Man is just entertaining.
If Notail's blog is to be believed sounds like Era hit some pretty heavy anxiety issues and has been in and out of treatment for it and his doc is basically saying he shouldn't be traveling or gaming. I haven't read all the emails due to work's filter and not being home till like 1 am last night.
If Era really is having full on breakdowns and his doc says no then it is like Fear.
I think the issue hear is mental issues are way more nebulous than physical ones like Fear's. Though again I need to see Valve's full response.
No, the issue here is that Fnatic waited until May 29th to even raise this with Valve, whereas EG raised it months and months ago before invites were even sent. Valve specified in their invite to EG that the invite was extended to both Mason AND Fear, whoever was going to end up playing.
No such courtesy was extended to Fnatic, because Fnatic did not extend any courtesy themselves.
I understand why Valve is doing it.
But per my post above this one it might be time to have extended rosters.
Health isn't something you can predict and issues can appear many months ahead like Fear or a short time ahead like Era's or even a the week of the competition. I do not think it is as much a courtesy but more taking health as health works, unpredictably at times.
Problem with this we are still getting he said she said with Valve and Fnatic even with the emails out. Really it should come down to Valve talking to Era's doctors and getting their recommendations and statements on if Era is eligible to play or not and then move on from there.
If we want e-sports treated like a sport we need to start taking into account issues like this especially with pools like 10 million bucks.
+3
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
era's issues cropped up in january, fnatic said as much themselves.
Also Excalibur was basically non-existent that game. Just farming and some moonlights. He didn't feed but he didn't carry the game. Great arrow at the start for first blood though.
Also Excalibur was basically non-existent that game. Just farming and some moonlights. He didn't feed but he didn't carry the game. Great arrow at the start for first blood though.
That is pretty much how mirana works though, moonlight/splitpush/arrows early/midgame, and eventually do some damage if it goes late.
So back when meepo first came out i used to play a lot of him, and i switched from HoN primarily for him (them?) And i really havent played him at all since then, do you guys have any good meepo videos to watch? Any pro meepo players worth checking out? I never watch any pro games i typically would rather spend my time playing a game than watching someone else play, but with this hero some direction would be great.
So back when meepo first came out i used to play a lot of him, and i switched from HoN primarily for him (them?) And i really havent played him at all since then, do you guys have any good meepo videos to watch? Any pro meepo players worth checking out? I never watch any pro games i typically would rather spend my time playing a game than watching someone else play, but with this hero some direction would be great.
Notail and Excalibur. They are pretty much *the* meepo players at pro level.
edit: they both play in Fnatic, and excalibur has done most of the meeping recently. He has carried ridiculously hard a few times in the last few months, although I can't think of the specific games right now. It's getting more rare, since people are banning meepo now against fnatic due to excaliburs crazy results with the hero. I think they played him at least once at the recent dreamleague finals, which you should be able to find on youtube.
Yeah, nice to see his hero pool expanding. VG straight banning tinker/meepo first every time it seems, will probably be pretty common come TI4 if he is allowed to go there.
Cool guys thanks. I know he is a crazy difficult hero to play effectively because with good coordination he can get blown up really quickly, but he is a lot of fun. I'm going to play my first bot games ever to practice the microing. In HoN and WC3 Dota I was pretty damn good at microing but for some reason I have a lot of trouble with it on Dota 2
In other news, anybody else noticing a way higher variance in MMR awarded for ranked games recently? Today I have won 5, 16, 24 and 39 points for winning various matches depending on the MMR of the opposing team. I have never seen points awarded outside of the range of 24-26 before.
Also as someone who has experienced and recovered from mental health issues presumably very similar to what Era seems to be going through, my heart goes out to him. He seems to be handling himself well and to be honest I don't think any of the respective involved parties come out of this looking bad. It's a very complicated and delicate issue and everybody seems to be working through it as best they can.
Myeah, tinker can get shut down, but Fnatic may play around that next time. Overall I am just happy to see them going strong. They can beat anyone, but they can also lose to anyone, just hoping it's the winning Fnatic we see on the rest of this tourney and TI4.
Myeah, tinker can get shut down, but Fnatic may play around that next time. Overall I am just happy to see them going strong. They can beat anyone, but they can also lose to anyone, just hoping it's the winning Fnatic we see on the rest of this tourney and TI4.
Yeah. I am hoping for them to keep in good form. Even if they lose it is better if they aren't collapsing but playing some good games.
I wasn't really a big Fnatic fan but The Summit really sold me on them.
Seriously though I was actually about to pop in to post this. You cannot, cannot cannot cannot, CANNOT give Alliance the prophet. You just can't. They almost never lose when they draft him.
Seriously though I was actually about to pop in to post this. You cannot, cannot cannot cannot, CANNOT give Alliance the prophet. You just can't. They almost never lose when they draft him.
I think they could have dealt with prophet ok-ish if they hadn't also let Alliance draft the Wisp/WK insta stun combo, that's just way too much global presence. It was clear by 30 minutes C9 was going to have to 5 man down mid and hope they could either force Alliance into actually fighting, or start grabbing buildings.
Also that game is a great example of why buyback is still dumb and way too cheap, it turned that game into a 80 minute attrition grind.
Loda still the worst interview...god put anyone else from Alliance up there.
Seriously though I was actually about to pop in to post this. You cannot, cannot cannot cannot, CANNOT give Alliance the prophet. You just can't. They almost never lose when they draft him.
I think they could have dealt with prophet ok-ish if they hadn't also let Alliance draft the Wisp/WK insta stun combo, that's just way too much global presence.
Also that game is a great example of why buyback is still dumb and way too cheap, it turned that game into a 75 minute attrition grind.
Eh, I thought it was incredibly tense and exciting. Just waiting for the first big mistake (like C9s finish) to end it all. With Alliance controlling the map masterfully, courtesy of bulldog and the wisp.
Posts
To be clear, physiological conditions are very, very real, and every bit as (and potentially more!) debilitating as purely physical ailments.
Unfortunately, they're harder to get a clear fix on the extent of the problem than purely physical ones. You can see and verify the extent of the damage from a broken arm or torn ligiments. To know the extent of a person's mental trauma? Not easy. The result is that it's easy to be biased against people with mental health problems, and to be unaware that they have that bias.
I hope that Era is able to play. But if he's not, I hope that Valve understands that this is every bit as real as if he broke his arms, and that substitutions should be allowed. Teams are allowed callups and to pick up free agents in most professional sports - it's understood that of a guy has a concussion, he shouldn't be playing. Perhaps the good that will come out of this will be improved mechanisms for having spares on teams in DOTA, or allowing for team transfer alliances. I can only hope.
The point is that Era sent out an email basically saying "I can play," and even with a retraction and knowledge that mental issues can be a serious problem, that could make it seem like Fnatic was trying to play the low-risk hero. The fact they talked about potential payment splits also makes it seem as if Era could be pressured into saying "I can't play, really" after saying he could.
Valve's rules are to protect players, and to prevent any sort of situation that encourages telling a player to drop out after qualifying. The situation makes it seem like there's a pretty fair chance that Era is being pressured here one way or other, and backing down would negate the point of their substitution rules when, unlike Fear, there has been question about whether or not he was truly 100% incapable of playing, or just being subbed out because he isn't 100%.
For comparison, when Fear said his injury would prevent him from playing, he stopped playing. He hasn't played competitively since March. They kept some room for him in case his injury improved, but about a month ago they pulled the trigger and said that he would not be able to make it due to the injury. It's clear that EG and Fear don't consider Fear ready to play(or at least, Fear has put his medical condition ahead of his progaming career).
That's the difference, and why EG is okay with Mason, but not Fnatic and Excalibur.
Whereas it seems like Fnatic only just contacted Valve for the first time a few weeks ago, at the end of May.
If Era really is having full on breakdowns and his doc says no then it is like Fear.
I think the issue hear is mental issues are way more nebulous than physical ones like Fear's. Though again I need to see Valve's full response.
The Production and filler inbetween games has really been a pleasure to watch.
IG vs. Mouz was also a treat to watch.
No, the issue here is that Fnatic waited until May 29th to even raise this with Valve, whereas EG raised it months and months ago before invites were even sent. Valve specified in their invite to EG that the invite was extended to both Mason AND Fear, whoever was going to end up playing.
No such courtesy was extended to Fnatic, because Fnatic did not extend any courtesy themselves.
Still kind of not 100% sure on both sides. Valve's logic makes sense but I can see why Fnatic and Era would not want to risk Era traveling.
I think this is kind of one of the issues around e-sports is we are still figuring shit out an rosters tend to only be the minimum required. It might be time to look at building one or two replacements for e-sport teams in case of health or other needs.
In other words it is Fnatic verse VG time. And my love of Notail continues. Man is just entertaining.
I understand why Valve is doing it.
But per my post above this one it might be time to have extended rosters.
Health isn't something you can predict and issues can appear many months ahead like Fear or a short time ahead like Era's or even a the week of the competition. I do not think it is as much a courtesy but more taking health as health works, unpredictably at times.
Problem with this we are still getting he said she said with Valve and Fnatic even with the emails out. Really it should come down to Valve talking to Era's doctors and getting their recommendations and statements on if Era is eligible to play or not and then move on from there.
If we want e-sports treated like a sport we need to start taking into account issues like this especially with pools like 10 million bucks.
H4nni best Tiny.
Also Excalibur was basically non-existent that game. Just farming and some moonlights. He didn't feed but he didn't carry the game. Great arrow at the start for first blood though.
That is pretty much how mirana works though, moonlight/splitpush/arrows early/midgame, and eventually do some damage if it goes late.
Notail and Excalibur. They are pretty much *the* meepo players at pro level.
edit: they both play in Fnatic, and excalibur has done most of the meeping recently. He has carried ridiculously hard a few times in the last few months, although I can't think of the specific games right now. It's getting more rare, since people are banning meepo now against fnatic due to excaliburs crazy results with the hero. I think they played him at least once at the recent dreamleague finals, which you should be able to find on youtube.
Steam: adamjnet
Steam: adamjnet
And Flys Lich this game is pretty cool.
The problem with that is you need to ban meepo,tinker as well. Not enough bans to keep them from getting at least one of them.
I would say let Tinker through.
Empire showed how to shut down Tinker hardcore. Build the team to break him.
Seriously Fly's lich was awesome.
I personally think Bigdaddy and H4nni's Wisp/Tiny is much scarier than Excalibur's Tinker at the moment.
Especially if Fly and Notail keep playing their support brains out.
Yeah. I am hoping for them to keep in good form. Even if they lose it is better if they aren't collapsing but playing some good games.
I wasn't really a big Fnatic fan but The Summit really sold me on them.
Though I have a deep love of Na'Vi still.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ReDeYe
Also, amazing game.
He is uncontested the best Furion player in the world.
Seriously though I was actually about to pop in to post this. You cannot, cannot cannot cannot, CANNOT give Alliance the prophet. You just can't. They almost never lose when they draft him.
I think they could have dealt with prophet ok-ish if they hadn't also let Alliance draft the Wisp/WK insta stun combo, that's just way too much global presence. It was clear by 30 minutes C9 was going to have to 5 man down mid and hope they could either force Alliance into actually fighting, or start grabbing buildings.
Also that game is a great example of why buyback is still dumb and way too cheap, it turned that game into a 80 minute attrition grind.
I guess they just value keeping other heroes out of their hands. Not sure why though!