Thoughtsteal is one of those cards that looks mediocre on paper, but is really good in the class it's designed for. If you think about the Priest class and the type of games it tends to have, the games tend to go long. So it's effectively Arcane Intellect while also giving your deck 2 more cards. So your deck has 34 cards instead of 30, and since fatigue is a thing here and games against Priest tend to go long anyways, that is an advantage.
With the exception of combo decks like Miracle Rogue, most decks run cards that are powerhouses on their own. So there is a strong chance that at least one of your two cards from Thoughtsteal are going to be really really good.
Yeah, I love thoughtsteal.
It is really really good against control decks. In control vs control, if one deck gets 4 more cards, it's a strong favorite if you just go along trading 1 for 1. Often in control vs control it comes down to the last card and to see if one guy will have a minion out once the other player's hand is exhausted.
It's less good against some aggro and combo decks. Like, thoughtstealing an UTH hunter or miracle rogue is generally not that profitable. Yay, you got a buzzard and a tracking. Yay, you got a shadowstep and a deadly poison.
But if you thoughtsteal a handlock and get a molten giant + twilight drake, that's really good for you. Or if you thoughtsteal a mage and get an ice block and pyroblast of your own.
Thing about Thoughtsteal is that it lets you throw your opponent's crap right back at them. In the Amaz vs Realz match at Dreamhack, Amaz got a Twilight Drake and a Mountain Giant. How nuts is that?
And I mean, sure, sometimes you're playing vs a Rogue and you'll Thoughtsteal double Deadly Poisons or some garbage like that. But you can game Thoughtsteal just like any other "random" card. Thoughtsteal can only grab cards that are currently in the opponent's deck, it won't grab you cards that have already been drawn/played. So for example, wait for the Rogue to use DP (since at that point you know it's out of their deck), then Thoughtsteal. Or just yolo it and Thoughtsteal anyway. Maybe you'll grab Leeroy and a Shadowstep! Or maybe you just grab an Earthen Ring Farseer and an SI7 Agent, but those are still good anyway.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Thoughtsteal is one of those cards that looks mediocre on paper, but is really good in the class it's designed for. If you think about the Priest class and the type of games it tends to have, the games tend to go long. So it's effectively Arcane Intellect while also giving your deck 2 more cards. So your deck has 34 cards instead of 30, and since fatigue is a thing here and games against Priest tend to go long anyways, that is an advantage.
With the exception of combo decks like Miracle Rogue, most decks run cards that are powerhouses on their own. So there is a strong chance that at least one of your two cards from Thoughtsteal are going to be really really good.
Yeah, I love thoughtsteal.
It is really really good against control decks. In control vs control, if one deck gets 4 more cards, it's a strong favorite if you just go along trading 1 for 1. Often in control vs control it comes down to the last card and to see if one guy will have a minion out once the other player's hand is exhausted.
It's less good against some aggro and combo decks. Like, thoughtstealing an UTH hunter or miracle rogue is generally not that profitable. Yay, you got a buzzard and a tracking. Yay, you got a shadowstep and a deadly poison.
But if you thoughtsteal a handlock and get a molten giant + twilight drake, that's really good for you. Or if you thoughtsteal a mage and get an ice block and pyroblast of your own.
Yeah, but you are looking at worse case vs best case. UTH hunter still has deadly shot, explosive trap, Animal companion, kill command, which are all great.
Miracle Rogue has Leeroy, and actually I don't really know what else, but most anything except deadly poison is useful in most cases.
Thing about Thoughtsteal is that it lets you throw your opponent's crap right back at them. In the Amaz vs Realz match at Dreamhack, Amaz got a Twilight Drake and a Mountain Giant. How nuts is that?
And I mean, sure, sometimes you're playing vs a Rogue and you'll Thoughtsteal double Deadly Poisons or some garbage like that. But you can game Thoughtsteal just like any other "random" card. Thoughtsteal can only grab cards that are currently in the opponent's deck, it won't grab you cards that have already been drawn/played. So for example, wait for the Rogue to use DP (since at that point you know it's out of their deck), then Thoughtsteal. Or just yolo it and Thoughtsteal anyway. Maybe you'll grab Leeroy and a Shadowstep! Or maybe you just grab an Earthen Ring Farseer and an SI7 Agent, but those are still good anyway.
Wow, that's actually really good to know.
Edit: This also means that if you Thoughtsteal a legendary or a card that you know is a 1-of in their deck, then you know it's not in their hand.
Just had a ridiculous play against in arena priest vs mage (he technically misplayed but whatever). Its my turn, I'm a priest in shadowform, on his board is a shielded argent squire, we are at 6 mana I'm going 2nd.
me:
taz dingo, mind spike squire
him (7 mana now):
firebal taz dingo, acolyte
me:
shadow madness acolyte, attack unshielded squire, draw card, then mind spike acolyte, draw another card
I have to say, in the current meta a properly timed "Well met!" is pretty op. Particularly at the end of a match as the opponent's face is exploding from a crushing defeat at the hands of justice, this move has a very high likelihood in resulting in an immediate friend request pop up. I call that a cherry on top.
It's... I mean, it'll be good for Hunter Midrange, it's just kind of boring, honestly. 1/1 for 1 even with card draw is just meh. It's a good 1 drop, don't get me wrong, it'll be good, but it's hard to get excited over a 1 drop. SHRUG.
Dibby on
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
It's... I mean, it'll be good for Hunter Midrange, it's just kind of boring, honestly. 1/1 for 1 even with card draw is just meh. It's a good 1 drop, don't get me wrong, it'll be good, but it's hard to get excited over a 1 drop. SHRUG.
The card draw is specific, though, which may be of more significance than you think.
Also, we are only getting one class card of each out of this expansion? I thought it was more than that...
There's also the 21 neutral cards coming. A 30 card expansion feels about right in terms of size. That's an entire deck's worth of new cards, but not so many that it completely upends game balance.
The card draw is specific, though, which may be of more significance than you think.
Yeah, I get that. Like imagine pulling a Highmane with the Deathrattle. Or say you have a Houndmaster in hand, but no Beasts to use it with, suddenly this card gets some good value.
But it's more so that I don't really think that's what Hunter needed? Hunter already had tons of card draw, between Tracking, Flare, Buzzard/UTH. A good 3 or 4 drop Beast would've been better, I think.
It's only amazing if you don't have access to those cards already, this means there is a huge variance in what you might get, which is not what your looking for in constructed. What's a hunter going to do with captains parrot?
A 1/1 body for 1 that nets you another beast when it dies seems pretty solid to me. I wonder if by "any collectible beast" it could end up giving you the animal companion ones as well.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
It's interesting, if not very exciting. Basically, a better novice engineering for hunter. Might replace Stonetusk, but probably not.
Yeah, hard to say. It's a better enabler of kill command (recycles itself) but at the same time you can't use it with hunters mark to take something down.
There actually aren't that many actual beast cards in a hunters deck. UTH won't count. Animal companion won't count. Houndmaster is not a beast.
I think it's probably better to compare this to tracking: It can help you dig for buzzards and timber wolves to get your UTH combo off.
--oh, didn't see that it's a random beast. I think that makes it less good. Getting +1 card to your deck is nice, but tracking means hunters are usually operating at a disadvantage anyway (and flare, and hunters mark, etc etc) in terms of # of actual meaningful cards in their deck.
If this card was another way for a priest to up the # of cards in their deck, say from 34 to 36, that would be better.
A 1/1 body for 1 that nets you another beast when it dies seems pretty solid to me. I wonder if by "any collectible beast" it could end up giving you the animal companion ones as well.
I didn't say it made it bad. I just said that its ability to get "any collectible beast" makes it less good than if it had pulled a beast from your deck.
25 beast cards in total. Technically at a 1 drop, cycling for any of these cards produces value. But only a minority of these cards I would want to play as a hunter to begin with. I suppose the dream is turn 1 webspinner, turn 2 cycle into a turn 3 mukla, but you have an absurdly low chance of that happening.
Kambing on
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I was going to say "Well, that card says "draw a Beast", not "draw a Beast from your deck", but Dibby covered that. I'm less excited about this than I could be, though it's nice to have another Beast 1 drop.
So, now that we've seen all the cards...how do you rank them?
Warriors: utterly amazing. Swipe for warrior!
Priest: really really good, fits hole for priest, works well with their other cards
Warlock: Pretty damn good. Should, with new naxx cards like the egg and void terror, make a mid rangey warlock deck possible
Druid: soooort of patches a hole in the deck? Most druids would run one of these in the current meta, I think, just to deal with the double molten giant + taunt handlocks.
Shaman: Shadowstep for Shaman! A bit situational, you'd need the right kind of deck, but could definitely be part of a good combo
Rogue: Hmmmmm. A 5 attack minion for 4 will kill value yetis (and druid ancients!) but you actually don't see that many value yetis currently. I don't think this would show up in most current rogue decks but I still think it's a good card that could be powerful in future decks. Makes the 'mill' rogue a bit better, yet another way to bounce oracles back to your hand. (as will dancing swords) If this can show up in arena, it's really good.
Mage: can be cool with Leeroy, but a bit too situational and hard to use. Potentially great when comboed with Kirin Tor mage in a secrets deck. But I do not think this card by itself makes a secrets mage viable so...
Hunter: Meh. Too unreliable to make it into decks, IMO. That said, it's an acceptable 1 drop for a hunter rush deck.
Paladin: total garbage.
Basically mage and paladin aren't getting anything to make them better in constructed, IMO. I think priest, warrior, and druid make out the best with getting cards that would immediately be useful even in the current meta.
I think Webspinner produces pretty good value for potential Houndmaster targets, though. Even if you pull something as shitty as Silverback Patriarch, you can turn that into a 3/6 taunt.
I think Webspinner produces pretty good value for potential Houndmaster targets, though. Even if you pull something as shitty as Silverback Patriarch, you can turn that into a 3/6 taunt.
You still have to pay the mana costs to play the Silverback from your hand.
I think webspinner is trash in constructed where you can refine your deck. But in arena, I would take it over other 1 drops just to be able to trade up into cards that can fill out my curve.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
I think webspinner is trash in constructed where you can refine your deck. But in arena, I would take it over other 1 drops just to be able to trade up into cards that can fill out my curve.
So, now that we've seen all the cards...how do you rank them?
Warriors: utterly amazing. Swipe for warrior!
Priest: really really good, fits hole for priest, works well with their other cards
Warlock: Pretty damn good. Should, with new naxx cards like the egg and void terror, make a mid rangey warlock deck possible
Druid: soooort of patches a hole in the deck? Most druids would run one of these in the current meta, I think, just to deal with the double molten giant + taunt handlocks.
Shaman: Shadowstep for Shaman! A bit situational, you'd need the right kind of deck, but could definitely be part of a good combo
Rogue: Hmmmmm. A 5 attack minion for 4 will kill value yetis (and druid ancients!) but you actually don't see that many value yetis currently. I don't think this would show up in most current rogue decks but I still think it's a good card that could be powerful in future decks. Makes the 'mill' rogue a bit better, yet another way to bounce oracles back to your hand. (as will dancing swords) If this can show up in arena, it's really good.
Mage: can be cool with Leeroy, but a bit too situational and hard to use. Potentially great when comboed with Kirin Tor mage in a secrets deck. But I do not think this card by itself makes a secrets mage viable so...
Hunter: Meh. Too unreliable to make it into decks, IMO. That said, it's an acceptable 1 drop for a hunter rush deck.
Paladin: total garbage.
Basically mage and paladin aren't getting anything to make them better in constructed, IMO. I think priest, warrior, and druid make out the best with getting cards that would immediately be useful even in the current meta.
The druid card is the xfactor for me, because it's yet to be seen how good it will be, but I have a feeling it has very high potential, and will make for some interesting mirros.
Calling that axe a swipe for warriors is getting carried away a bit i think. You can't trigger the deathrattle until the turn after you equip it (unless you equip another weapon? but that's extremely situational), and no opponent is going to walk into a perfect swipe when they see this. Secondly you can't target minions behind a taunt with the primary damage, and you also have to take damage on the face in the process. Oh and it damages your own minions. And doesn't benefit from spell power. It's not swipe.
Interested to see how well people can pull off the "deathrattle x 2" legendary with all of these death-related cards.
It's a bit of a stretch of a combo as deathrattles are generally controlish decks, so that weakens their playability until zoo or rush decks get slowed down somehow, since none of these cards will really help you survive the early game.
Interested to see how well people can pull off the "deathrattle x 2" legendary with all of these death-related cards.
It's a bit of a stretch of a combo as deathrattles are generally controlish decks, so that weakens their playability until zoo or rush decks get slowed down somehow, since none of these cards will really help you survive the early game.
The shaman dream of rivendare on board, play cairne+the res on death card+the card that kills the unit and resses it! Should mean 2 Cairne and 2 Bain spawning. As well as the ressurected Cairne.
Haha, did anyone else think the card read summon at first? I thought you all lost your minds because that would be off the charts value. As it is, it's a slightly better version of mind vision, which is ehhhhhh
Posts
Yeah, I love thoughtsteal.
It is really really good against control decks. In control vs control, if one deck gets 4 more cards, it's a strong favorite if you just go along trading 1 for 1. Often in control vs control it comes down to the last card and to see if one guy will have a minion out once the other player's hand is exhausted.
It's less good against some aggro and combo decks. Like, thoughtstealing an UTH hunter or miracle rogue is generally not that profitable. Yay, you got a buzzard and a tracking. Yay, you got a shadowstep and a deadly poison.
But if you thoughtsteal a handlock and get a molten giant + twilight drake, that's really good for you. Or if you thoughtsteal a mage and get an ice block and pyroblast of your own.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
And I mean, sure, sometimes you're playing vs a Rogue and you'll Thoughtsteal double Deadly Poisons or some garbage like that. But you can game Thoughtsteal just like any other "random" card. Thoughtsteal can only grab cards that are currently in the opponent's deck, it won't grab you cards that have already been drawn/played. So for example, wait for the Rogue to use DP (since at that point you know it's out of their deck), then Thoughtsteal. Or just yolo it and Thoughtsteal anyway. Maybe you'll grab Leeroy and a Shadowstep! Or maybe you just grab an Earthen Ring Farseer and an SI7 Agent, but those are still good anyway.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Yeah, but you are looking at worse case vs best case. UTH hunter still has deadly shot, explosive trap, Animal companion, kill command, which are all great.
Miracle Rogue has Leeroy, and actually I don't really know what else, but most anything except deadly poison is useful in most cases.
38thDoE on steam
Wow, that's actually really good to know.
Edit: This also means that if you Thoughtsteal a legendary or a card that you know is a 1-of in their deck, then you know it's not in their hand.
2 young brewmasters
Knife Juggler
Questing adventurer
SO DUMB. Other guy only lasted 1 more turn before quitting out of frustration on turn 7.
me:
taz dingo, mind spike squire
him (7 mana now):
firebal taz dingo, acolyte
me:
shadow madness acolyte, attack unshielded squire, draw card, then mind spike acolyte, draw another card
felt good man
Aaaand that's the last Class card.
It's... I mean, it'll be good for Hunter Midrange, it's just kind of boring, honestly. 1/1 for 1 even with card draw is just meh. It's a good 1 drop, don't get me wrong, it'll be good, but it's hard to get excited over a 1 drop. SHRUG.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
The card draw is specific, though, which may be of more significance than you think.
Xbox Live / Steam
Xbox Live / Steam
There's also the 21 neutral cards coming. A 30 card expansion feels about right in terms of size. That's an entire deck's worth of new cards, but not so many that it completely upends game balance.
Yeah, I get that. Like imagine pulling a Highmane with the Deathrattle. Or say you have a Houndmaster in hand, but no Beasts to use it with, suddenly this card gets some good value.
But it's more so that I don't really think that's what Hunter needed? Hunter already had tons of card draw, between Tracking, Flare, Buzzard/UTH. A good 3 or 4 drop Beast would've been better, I think.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Webspinner is now amazing. WHAT THE FUCK.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Xbox Live / Steam
still better than bane of doom
A 1/1 body for 1 that nets you another beast when it dies seems pretty solid to me. I wonder if by "any collectible beast" it could end up giving you the animal companion ones as well.
DISAGREE
Xbox Live / Steam
Yeah, hard to say. It's a better enabler of kill command (recycles itself) but at the same time you can't use it with hunters mark to take something down.
There actually aren't that many actual beast cards in a hunters deck. UTH won't count. Animal companion won't count. Houndmaster is not a beast.
I think it's probably better to compare this to tracking: It can help you dig for buzzards and timber wolves to get your UTH combo off.
--oh, didn't see that it's a random beast. I think that makes it less good. Getting +1 card to your deck is nice, but tracking means hunters are usually operating at a disadvantage anyway (and flare, and hunters mark, etc etc) in terms of # of actual meaningful cards in their deck.
If this card was another way for a priest to up the # of cards in their deck, say from 34 to 36, that would be better.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
I didn't say it made it bad. I just said that its ability to get "any collectible beast" makes it less good than if it had pulled a beast from your deck.
Xbox Live / Steam
Much worse. For the record, the list of cards you can pull:
+ Bloodfen Raptor (2)
+ Captain's Parrot (2)
+ Core Hound (7)
+ Dire Wolf Alpha (2)
+ Emperor Cobra (3)
+ Hungry Crab (1)
+ Ironbeak Owl (2)
+ Ironfur Grizzly (3)
+ Jungle Panther (3)
+ King Krush (9)
+ King Mukla (3)
+ Oasis Snapjaw (4)
+ River Crocolisk (2)
+ Savannah Highmane (6)
+ Scavenging Hyena (2)
+ Silverback Patriarch (3)
+ Stampeding Kodo (5)
+ Starving Buzzard (2)
+ Stonetusk Boar (1)
+ Stranglethorn Tiger (5)
+ The Beast (6)
+ Timber Wolf (1)
+ Tundra Rhino (5)
+ Young Dragonhawk (1)
25 beast cards in total. Technically at a 1 drop, cycling for any of these cards produces value. But only a minority of these cards I would want to play as a hunter to begin with. I suppose the dream is turn 1 webspinner, turn 2 cycle into a turn 3 mukla, but you have an absurdly low chance of that happening.
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Warriors: utterly amazing. Swipe for warrior!
Priest: really really good, fits hole for priest, works well with their other cards
Warlock: Pretty damn good. Should, with new naxx cards like the egg and void terror, make a mid rangey warlock deck possible
Druid: soooort of patches a hole in the deck? Most druids would run one of these in the current meta, I think, just to deal with the double molten giant + taunt handlocks.
Shaman: Shadowstep for Shaman! A bit situational, you'd need the right kind of deck, but could definitely be part of a good combo
Rogue: Hmmmmm. A 5 attack minion for 4 will kill value yetis (and druid ancients!) but you actually don't see that many value yetis currently. I don't think this would show up in most current rogue decks but I still think it's a good card that could be powerful in future decks. Makes the 'mill' rogue a bit better, yet another way to bounce oracles back to your hand. (as will dancing swords) If this can show up in arena, it's really good.
Mage: can be cool with Leeroy, but a bit too situational and hard to use. Potentially great when comboed with Kirin Tor mage in a secrets deck. But I do not think this card by itself makes a secrets mage viable so...
Hunter: Meh. Too unreliable to make it into decks, IMO. That said, it's an acceptable 1 drop for a hunter rush deck.
Paladin: total garbage.
Basically mage and paladin aren't getting anything to make them better in constructed, IMO. I think priest, warrior, and druid make out the best with getting cards that would immediately be useful even in the current meta.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
You still have to pay the mana costs to play the Silverback from your hand.
Xbox Live / Steam
Oh yeah, I didn't think about it in arena.
I actually like it in Arena.
Xbox Live / Steam
If it said "Deathrattle: draw The Beast"
I kid, I kid. That would make it even worse.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
The druid card is the xfactor for me, because it's yet to be seen how good it will be, but I have a feeling it has very high potential, and will make for some interesting mirros.
Calling that axe a swipe for warriors is getting carried away a bit i think. You can't trigger the deathrattle until the turn after you equip it (unless you equip another weapon? but that's extremely situational), and no opponent is going to walk into a perfect swipe when they see this. Secondly you can't target minions behind a taunt with the primary damage, and you also have to take damage on the face in the process. Oh and it damages your own minions. And doesn't benefit from spell power. It's not swipe.
It's a bit of a stretch of a combo as deathrattles are generally controlish decks, so that weakens their playability until zoo or rush decks get slowed down somehow, since none of these cards will really help you survive the early game.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
The shaman dream of rivendare on board, play cairne+the res on death card+the card that kills the unit and resses it! Should mean 2 Cairne and 2 Bain spawning. As well as the ressurected Cairne.
And then most of the time when I face decks with Legendary cards, I never draw the necessary cards to deal with them.
Did you make the proper offerings and sacrifices to RNGsus?
Cuz that's kinda important.
I suppose I have been a bit lax as of late.
I did make it to rank 17 though, so it's not all bad.