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[Unions] Time to get Fired...up?

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Posts

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    shryke wrote: »
    Today in Fuck Kickstarter - the tech firm fires two union organizers:
    On Thursday morning, Kickstarter fired Taylor Moore, an employee who was one of the organizers of a unionization effort within the company. This was the second firing of a union organizer since last week, when Clarissa Redwine was also fired. Moore had been at the company for six years and Redwine since 2016, and both worked on the outreach team. Both had been heavily involved in the union effort since it began earlier this year. Moore and Redwine, according to four sources who work at the company, were both fired for what management alleged were performance-related issues.

    Right. Pull the other one - it has bells on it.

    It's possible. I remember reading somewhere that a lot of companies pressure managers to make sure to document performance issue with all their workers, because it makes any eventual decisions to fire them easier to defend in courts. If everyone has performance issues, everyone is working at the sufferance of their managers.

    And yet documenting worker performance so you can back up your firing decisions is one of the things most commonly complained about with unions.

    These tactics don't work in unionized environments. Unions would catch on real quick if management was relying on a strategy of systematically documenting everyone.

    Phillishere on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Today in Fuck Kickstarter - the tech firm fires two union organizers:
    On Thursday morning, Kickstarter fired Taylor Moore, an employee who was one of the organizers of a unionization effort within the company. This was the second firing of a union organizer since last week, when Clarissa Redwine was also fired. Moore had been at the company for six years and Redwine since 2016, and both worked on the outreach team. Both had been heavily involved in the union effort since it began earlier this year. Moore and Redwine, according to four sources who work at the company, were both fired for what management alleged were performance-related issues.

    Right. Pull the other one - it has bells on it.

    It's possible. I remember reading somewhere that a lot of companies pressure managers to make sure to document performance issue with all their workers, because it makes any eventual decisions to fire them easier to defend in courts. If everyone has performance issues, everyone is working at the sufferance of their managers.

    And yet documenting worker performance so you can back up your firing decisions is one of the things most commonly complained about with unions.

    These tactics don't work in unionized environments. Unions would catch on real quick if management was relying on a strategy of systematically documenting everyone.

    What?

    Unions usually demand that kind of documentation. It's how you actually fire someone: with proof to back up your reason for doing so.

    RedTidedispatch.oMoridin889ShadowenHacksawEtiowsaLostNinjaShortyDisruptedCapitalistspool32GvzbgulFencingsaxredxenc0repainfulPleasanceMulysaSempronius
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Today in Fuck Kickstarter - the tech firm fires two union organizers:
    On Thursday morning, Kickstarter fired Taylor Moore, an employee who was one of the organizers of a unionization effort within the company. This was the second firing of a union organizer since last week, when Clarissa Redwine was also fired. Moore had been at the company for six years and Redwine since 2016, and both worked on the outreach team. Both had been heavily involved in the union effort since it began earlier this year. Moore and Redwine, according to four sources who work at the company, were both fired for what management alleged were performance-related issues.

    Right. Pull the other one - it has bells on it.

    It's possible. I remember reading somewhere that a lot of companies pressure managers to make sure to document performance issue with all their workers, because it makes any eventual decisions to fire them easier to defend in courts. If everyone has performance issues, everyone is working at the sufferance of their managers.

    And yet documenting worker performance so you can back up your firing decisions is one of the things most commonly complained about with unions.

    These tactics don't work in unionized environments. Unions would catch on real quick if management was relying on a strategy of systematically documenting everyone.

    What?

    Unions usually demand that kind of documentation. It's how you actually fire someone: with proof to back up your reason for doing so.

    I'm saying that if managers were documenting problems with every single employee in the company as a tactic, unions would object very loudly.

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Today in Fuck Kickstarter - the tech firm fires two union organizers:
    On Thursday morning, Kickstarter fired Taylor Moore, an employee who was one of the organizers of a unionization effort within the company. This was the second firing of a union organizer since last week, when Clarissa Redwine was also fired. Moore had been at the company for six years and Redwine since 2016, and both worked on the outreach team. Both had been heavily involved in the union effort since it began earlier this year. Moore and Redwine, according to four sources who work at the company, were both fired for what management alleged were performance-related issues.

    Right. Pull the other one - it has bells on it.

    It's possible. I remember reading somewhere that a lot of companies pressure managers to make sure to document performance issue with all their workers, because it makes any eventual decisions to fire them easier to defend in courts. If everyone has performance issues, everyone is working at the sufferance of their managers.

    And yet documenting worker performance so you can back up your firing decisions is one of the things most commonly complained about with unions.

    These tactics don't work in unionized environments. Unions would catch on real quick if management was relying on a strategy of systematically documenting everyone.

    What?

    Unions usually demand that kind of documentation. It's how you actually fire someone: with proof to back up your reason for doing so.

    Right but "litterally everyone has negative review documentation" is what's being talked about. Not individual employees.

    PhillishereMan in the MistsGnome-InterruptusGvzbgulElvenshaeMegaMek
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Today in Fuck Kickstarter - the tech firm fires two union organizers:
    On Thursday morning, Kickstarter fired Taylor Moore, an employee who was one of the organizers of a unionization effort within the company. This was the second firing of a union organizer since last week, when Clarissa Redwine was also fired. Moore had been at the company for six years and Redwine since 2016, and both worked on the outreach team. Both had been heavily involved in the union effort since it began earlier this year. Moore and Redwine, according to four sources who work at the company, were both fired for what management alleged were performance-related issues.

    Right. Pull the other one - it has bells on it.

    It's possible. I remember reading somewhere that a lot of companies pressure managers to make sure to document performance issue with all their workers, because it makes any eventual decisions to fire them easier to defend in courts. If everyone has performance issues, everyone is working at the sufferance of their managers.

    And yet documenting worker performance so you can back up your firing decisions is one of the things most commonly complained about with unions.

    These tactics don't work in unionized environments. Unions would catch on real quick if management was relying on a strategy of systematically documenting everyone.

    What?

    Unions usually demand that kind of documentation. It's how you actually fire someone: with proof to back up your reason for doing so.

    No, what he's saying is that management has mid level managers have "performance issues" documented on every worker, so that they'll always have "legitimate" grounds to fire individuals.

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Today in Fuck Kickstarter - the tech firm fires two union organizers:
    On Thursday morning, Kickstarter fired Taylor Moore, an employee who was one of the organizers of a unionization effort within the company. This was the second firing of a union organizer since last week, when Clarissa Redwine was also fired. Moore had been at the company for six years and Redwine since 2016, and both worked on the outreach team. Both had been heavily involved in the union effort since it began earlier this year. Moore and Redwine, according to four sources who work at the company, were both fired for what management alleged were performance-related issues.

    Right. Pull the other one - it has bells on it.

    It's possible. I remember reading somewhere that a lot of companies pressure managers to make sure to document performance issue with all their workers, because it makes any eventual decisions to fire them easier to defend in courts. If everyone has performance issues, everyone is working at the sufferance of their managers.

    And yet documenting worker performance so you can back up your firing decisions is one of the things most commonly complained about with unions.

    These tactics don't work in unionized environments. Unions would catch on real quick if management was relying on a strategy of systematically documenting everyone.

    What?

    Unions usually demand that kind of documentation. It's how you actually fire someone: with proof to back up your reason for doing so.

    Right but "litterally everyone has negative review documentation" is what's being talked about. Not individual employees.

    Yup. We're talking about manipulating the employee review process to make sure every single employee in the organization has documented issues that justify firing "for cause" if need be.

    MrVyngaard
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Today in Fuck Kickstarter - the tech firm fires two union organizers:
    On Thursday morning, Kickstarter fired Taylor Moore, an employee who was one of the organizers of a unionization effort within the company. This was the second firing of a union organizer since last week, when Clarissa Redwine was also fired. Moore had been at the company for six years and Redwine since 2016, and both worked on the outreach team. Both had been heavily involved in the union effort since it began earlier this year. Moore and Redwine, according to four sources who work at the company, were both fired for what management alleged were performance-related issues.

    Right. Pull the other one - it has bells on it.

    It's possible. I remember reading somewhere that a lot of companies pressure managers to make sure to document performance issue with all their workers, because it makes any eventual decisions to fire them easier to defend in courts. If everyone has performance issues, everyone is working at the sufferance of their managers.

    And yet documenting worker performance so you can back up your firing decisions is one of the things most commonly complained about with unions.

    These tactics don't work in unionized environments. Unions would catch on real quick if management was relying on a strategy of systematically documenting everyone.

    What?

    Unions usually demand that kind of documentation. It's how you actually fire someone: with proof to back up your reason for doing so.

    I'm saying that if managers were documenting problems with every single employee in the company as a tactic, unions would object very loudly.

    Unions also usually have contracts that require efforts be made to address the performance issues. Helps alleviate the issue of writing up every little thing and then firing the person.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Today in Fuck Kickstarter - the tech firm fires two union organizers:
    On Thursday morning, Kickstarter fired Taylor Moore, an employee who was one of the organizers of a unionization effort within the company. This was the second firing of a union organizer since last week, when Clarissa Redwine was also fired. Moore had been at the company for six years and Redwine since 2016, and both worked on the outreach team. Both had been heavily involved in the union effort since it began earlier this year. Moore and Redwine, according to four sources who work at the company, were both fired for what management alleged were performance-related issues.

    Right. Pull the other one - it has bells on it.

    It's possible. I remember reading somewhere that a lot of companies pressure managers to make sure to document performance issue with all their workers, because it makes any eventual decisions to fire them easier to defend in courts. If everyone has performance issues, everyone is working at the sufferance of their managers.

    And yet documenting worker performance so you can back up your firing decisions is one of the things most commonly complained about with unions.

    These tactics don't work in unionized environments. Unions would catch on real quick if management was relying on a strategy of systematically documenting everyone.

    What?

    Unions usually demand that kind of documentation. It's how you actually fire someone: with proof to back up your reason for doing so.

    I'm saying that if managers were documenting problems with every single employee in the company as a tactic, unions would object very loudly.

    Unions also usually have contracts that require efforts be made to address the performance issues. Helps alleviate the issue of writing up every little thing and then firing the person.

    If I get written up for something that is bullshit, I can pick up my phone and call my rep and either he or both of us will be talking about it with the chief probably before the end of the week.

    Getting the union in place to start pushing back is obviously the hard part

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Honestly if everybody in the company has fireable reviews on file that feels like the sort of thing a well funded defense team would have a field day with. Of course, the idea is typically to grind out resources of the folks who would sue you over this since presumably the company has more than an individual employee.

    PhillishereMan in the Mists
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    If you're in a union, your manager should have to prove to your union you have an issue. Managers can't just cite you for something and have it go into your file. If you contest a manager's review, your union should be able to get it thrown out.

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited September 13
    If you're in a union, your manager should have to prove to your union you have an issue. Managers can't just cite you for something and have it go into your file. If you contest a manager's review, your union should be able to get it thrown out.

    Unfortunately this isn't true in the United States. Unions just aren't that powerful anymore. Most of the time you tell management this is being done without agreement from the union and under protest.

    They shrug. Say, "Noted" and do it anyway. Unions don't have the resources to bring every dispute to litigation/arbitration so they only pick fights they can win.

    It sucks, but it's the way it is now. You are legally allowed to have representation during any punitive meeting or action. Doesn't really mean they can stop it from happening.

    dispatch.o on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    If you're in a union, your manager should have to prove to your union you have an issue. Managers can't just cite you for something and have it go into your file. If you contest a manager's review, your union should be able to get it thrown out.

    Unfortunately this isn't true in the United States. Unions just aren't that powerful anymore. Most of the time you tell management this is being done without agreement from the union and under protest.

    They shrug. Say, "Noted" and do it anyway. Unions don't have the resources to bring every dispute to litigation/arbitration so they only pick fights they can win.

    It sucks, but it's the way it is now. You are legally allowed to have representation during any punitive meeting or action. Doesn't really mean they can stop it from happening.

    Sounds like you have experience with a shitty union.

    You only really experience these things in places that aren't heavily unionized, or only one part of the staff is unionized (like teachers). At UPS someone was "fired" without cause and the union rep told him to just keep showing up to work, and as long as he was directed by a supervisor and did what was asked he could still get his paycheck regardless if the building manager was trying to have a jerk off match over how much power they wielded.

    Most companies don't want to risk a strike when a worker gets abused by stepping outside the policy handbooks because if it happens to one successfully it'll happen to others, and that's when everyone strikes.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, don't @ me
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited September 13
    My union is actually very strong. No union is as strong as an employer however when it comes to exploiting language in a contract.

    Edit: It may be specific to healthcare but employees are pretty limited in their ability to strike or fight back. The resources Kaiser Permanente will utilize to change laws on a state/national level make anything that isn't a negotiation based around new contracts unwinnable.

    The best you can hope for is a settlement offer of back pay and agreement to never work at Kaiser again for wrongful termination.

    I've been in several situations where it's decided that while we're technically correct, the resource investment to prove that is too great because it's not a guaranteed win.

    A company that makes $2,000,000,000 net as a "not for profit" is more than willing to burn workers to the ground through attrition.

    Edit2: I'm active in my union. OFNHP is pretty great. Kaiser Permanente is just awful.

    dispatch.o on
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Yup. We're talking about manipulating the employee review process to make sure every single employee in the organization has documented issues that justify firing "for cause" if need be.

    One place I worked at a couple of years ago forbade supervisors from giving good reviews to their staff. No matter how stellar an employee was, the review had to be exclusively fix-this-or-else pickiness, to the extent of having to basically reprimand someone because there was a typo in one non-public-facing document sometime several months ago. My supervisor knew that was bullshit and told me as much at the time, but still had to write me up for stuff like that or risk her own job. The intent of the whole exercise was pretty obvious.

    Of course said place was also not only non-union, but had an impressively heavyhanded approach to suspicions of organizing one. They busted two or three attempts in the few years I was there.

    dispatch.oPhillishereCambiataMan in the MistsDouglasDangerpainfulPleasance
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited September 13
    At Vanderbilt University Medical Center our supervisor was actively told if they give a score average over 3 out of 5 across all staff they'd be putting their job at risk. It's perverse and one of the things that kept me firmly in the "burn it down, eat the rich" camp.

    On our review evaluation every field had a header, "If you score over 2, justify this rating".

    Our raises were generated based on evaluation scores but the actual math was never shared.

    Edit: Medical Center to clear confusion.

    dispatch.o on
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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    My union is actually very strong. No union is as strong as an employer however when it comes to exploiting language in a contract.

    Edit: It may be specific to healthcare but employees are pretty limited in their ability to strike or fight back. The resources Kaiser Permanente will utilize to change laws on a state/national level make anything that isn't a negotiation based around new contracts unwinnable.

    The best you can hope for is a settlement offer of back pay and agreement to never work at Kaiser again for wrongful termination.

    I've been in several situations where it's decided that while we're technically correct, the resource investment to prove that is too great because it's not a guaranteed win.

    A company that makes $2,000,000,000 net as a "not for profit" is more than willing to burn workers to the ground through attrition.

    Edit2: I'm active in my union. OFNHP is pretty great. Kaiser Permanente is just awful.

    Kaiser is my healthcare provider.

    I really, REALLY wished we used anyone else but them, being as they cover nothing and charge for everything. I actively avoid medical care unless I feel like I might die just so I don't have to deal with their bullshit.

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited September 14
    They pretty routinely send out internal emails to all staff with their propaganda during contract negotiations. Very humbly claiming to be the reasonable ones in the fight with SEIU, using clever language as to not technically "lie" about the offers they've made.

    In this very thread I've made comments about SEIU and I was once a member, I don't like the leadership and am pretty pissed and them detonating the labor partnership all the unions who work at Kaiser due to trying to individually cut deals and politic. I still think the employees SEIU represents deserve better and should fight and stand by the union.

    The current tactic is to grandfather in pensions and retirement medical supplemental coverage and not offer them to new hires. Instead of giving a 3% raise per year for 3 years, give 2% plus a 1% cash bonus each year. Things that sound tolerable if you don't think about it long term. Losing 3% of your wage increase, setting new members against those who are aging and just trying to make it to retirement. My girlfriend is in SEIU and if they end up striking I'll be out there every day I'm not working in support, because my contract is still valid I can't actually go on strike.

    Bernard Tyson made 13 million last year and is estimated to make 16 million this year. He's had a 30% or greater raise every year for like 8 years now. Fuck Kaiser Permanente. You're going to actively fuck people who make the very lowest wages in your hospital system and keep giving millions of compensation to people who don't do a fucking thing? Burn it down. Eat the rich.


    Edit: I'm sure you're thinking, "Aren't there laws about compensation at not-for-profit hospitals?"

    There sure are, and Kaiser has been working to do away with them for a few years now. Until then, they just go the route of being wildly unethical and hide the compensation in bonuses and grey area retirement package inflation.

    dispatch.o on
  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    My union is actually very strong. No union is as strong as an employer however when it comes to exploiting language in a contract.

    Edit: It may be specific to healthcare but employees are pretty limited in their ability to strike or fight back. The resources Kaiser Permanente will utilize to change laws on a state/national level make anything that isn't a negotiation based around new contracts unwinnable.

    The best you can hope for is a settlement offer of back pay and agreement to never work at Kaiser again for wrongful termination.

    I've been in several situations where it's decided that while we're technically correct, the resource investment to prove that is too great because it's not a guaranteed win.

    A company that makes $2,000,000,000 net as a "not for profit" is more than willing to burn workers to the ground through attrition.

    Edit2: I'm active in my union. OFNHP is pretty great. Kaiser Permanente is just awful.

    Kaiser is my healthcare provider.

    I really, REALLY wished we used anyone else but them, being as they cover nothing and charge for everything. I actively avoid medical care unless I feel like I might die just so I don't have to deal with their bullshit.

    Their plan is working exactly as intended.

    If a movement doesn't have someone that can sit down opposite those in a position of power and strike a deal, how can that movement achieve success?
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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited September 15
    Unions representing around 80,000 Kaiser Permanente employees have already held a strike vote with 98% voting in favor of authorization if necessary.

    If an actual work stoppage/strike is called, because as I said up-thread healthcare is "special" the union has to give a 10 day notice to the hospital which can come as early as October 1st.

    It will be the biggest labor strike since 1997.

    Edit: Depending on the region this action includes staff in every area of care. The represented employees are from somewhere around 25 different unions, with the majority being under SEIU.

    dispatch.o on
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    I actually like my Kaiser, but I have a borderline ridiculous deal thanks to work (which is a fucking ridiculous way to DO things), but whatever.

    But I am 100% in support of whatever efforts the union chooses to take.

    I maaaay renew my prescription a week early now, though.

    Moridin889HacksawShadowfire
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    My union is actually very strong. No union is as strong as an employer however when it comes to exploiting language in a contract.

    Edit: It may be specific to healthcare but employees are pretty limited in their ability to strike or fight back. The resources Kaiser Permanente will utilize to change laws on a state/national level make anything that isn't a negotiation based around new contracts unwinnable.

    The best you can hope for is a settlement offer of back pay and agreement to never work at Kaiser again for wrongful termination.

    I've been in several situations where it's decided that while we're technically correct, the resource investment to prove that is too great because it's not a guaranteed win.

    A company that makes $2,000,000,000 net as a "not for profit" is more than willing to burn workers to the ground through attrition.

    Edit2: I'm active in my union. OFNHP is pretty great. Kaiser Permanente is just awful.

    Kaiser is my healthcare provider.

    I really, REALLY wished we used anyone else but them, being as they cover nothing and charge for everything. I actively avoid medical care unless I feel like I might die just so I don't have to deal with their bullshit.

    As a counterpoint, I'd rather hack off my own leg than use ANYONE in the US healthcare market other than Kaiser. They are literally the only company I even come close to trusting to actually focus on making me well, and not leave me with a bill at the end. I understand that they do offer discount policies which effectively invalidate the entire point of being on Kaiser, but, if you can get the 'actual Kaiser' version of a plan, then its like having healthcare in a real country! No messing around with referrals, and comparing prices, or any of that pointless and dangerous 'market' stuff. Just go to kaiser, and remain there until you are well.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    NebulousQ
  • The Cow KingThe Cow King Walls of Jakiro Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    UAWs on strike

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/16/business/uaw-gm-strike-general-motors/index.html

    Wishing them the best but considering contracts with the us government and companies are worthless cause US law only exists to protect property.

    They have a better chance tho since GM can really run any where else and moving more production down south isn't likely but I'm also expecting the not retired yet boomer members to sail the younger workers up the river cause to be fair they have had a raise in a decade

    The news will lie to you bout union salary and benefits remember that since 2008 most new positions are temporary part time for full time hours and some people have been that way for years

    The Cow King on
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  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    Some organized labour action going on over here in Canada. TL;DR version: A factory that supplies engine blocks for GM is going to be shut down here so the union representing the workers has decided to shut down the place instead arguing that Nemak had agreed to keep the plant open until 2022.
    D’Agnolo said there’s a bigger issue at stake here than just wage imbalances and production costs.

    “What’s a contract worth if corporations can just pick up, leave and ignore them?” D’Agnolo said. “We’re asking for problems if that’s allowed.

    “First GM and now Nemak. We’re expected to adhere to contracts and we expect the same from Nemak.”

    The move to shut down production came after D’Agnolo and Unifor national president Jerry Dias travelled to Mexico last week to meet with Nemak CEO Armando Tamez. The company informed Unifor of its timetable to shut down its Windsor operations.

    Ultimately, I think it's highly unlikely anything will come of it, but they are at least going down with a fight so props to them.

    There has been an update. The blockade has ended with an agreement to sit down and discuss the plants future here. Should nothing come of that, there will be an arbitration session that will be honored by both sides. Is this a win? I have no idea as it will depend on what comes of the talks.

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    My union is actually very strong. No union is as strong as an employer however when it comes to exploiting language in a contract.

    Edit: It may be specific to healthcare but employees are pretty limited in their ability to strike or fight back. The resources Kaiser Permanente will utilize to change laws on a state/national level make anything that isn't a negotiation based around new contracts unwinnable.

    The best you can hope for is a settlement offer of back pay and agreement to never work at Kaiser again for wrongful termination.

    I've been in several situations where it's decided that while we're technically correct, the resource investment to prove that is too great because it's not a guaranteed win.

    A company that makes $2,000,000,000 net as a "not for profit" is more than willing to burn workers to the ground through attrition.

    Edit2: I'm active in my union. OFNHP is pretty great. Kaiser Permanente is just awful.

    Kaiser is my healthcare provider.

    I really, REALLY wished we used anyone else but them, being as they cover nothing and charge for everything. I actively avoid medical care unless I feel like I might die just so I don't have to deal with their bullshit.

    As a counterpoint, I'd rather hack off my own leg than use ANYONE in the US healthcare market other than Kaiser. They are literally the only company I even come close to trusting to actually focus on making me well, and not leave me with a bill at the end. I understand that they do offer discount policies which effectively invalidate the entire point of being on Kaiser, but, if you can get the 'actual Kaiser' version of a plan, then its like having healthcare in a real country! No messing around with referrals, and comparing prices, or any of that pointless and dangerous 'market' stuff. Just go to kaiser, and remain there until you are well.

    This once again is predicated upon the problem of "Be rich and you'll be fine". Not a helpful or logically consistent counterpoint.

    HappylilElfSiska
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    I am not rich, but I am an employee and get pretty incredible insurance.

    I would just caution that it's not better than any other care you'd get, and in many cases worse if you don't know how to fight the system and care flow-chart they use. They have better marketing though.

    This need for self-advocacy in the face of a system designed to shunt people away from appropriate referrals and care is one of the reasons a strike will really fuck things up. Kaiser will have to fill those positions with contract workers who are totally unfamiliar with the way things have to be done to give care within the framework provided.

    It should be noted that most healthcare workers don't have the same opinion of strike-workers that other industries do. They have to be there, because people still need care... you can't just abandon a hospital and all the people who are being treated there. So hospital systems pay an insane premium to get people to fly in and work for a handful of days.

    dispatch.o on
  • The Cow KingThe Cow King Walls of Jakiro Registered User regular
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    Some organized labour action going on over here in Canada. TL;DR version: A factory that supplies engine blocks for GM is going to be shut down here so the union representing the workers has decided to shut down the place instead arguing that Nemak had agreed to keep the plant open until 2022.
    D’Agnolo said there’s a bigger issue at stake here than just wage imbalances and production costs.

    “What’s a contract worth if corporations can just pick up, leave and ignore them?” D’Agnolo said. “We’re asking for problems if that’s allowed.

    “First GM and now Nemak. We’re expected to adhere to contracts and we expect the same from Nemak.”

    The move to shut down production came after D’Agnolo and Unifor national president Jerry Dias travelled to Mexico last week to meet with Nemak CEO Armando Tamez. The company informed Unifor of its timetable to shut down its Windsor operations.

    Ultimately, I think it's highly unlikely anything will come of it, but they are at least going down with a fight so props to them.

    There has been an update. The blockade has ended with an agreement to sit down and discuss the plants future here. Should nothing come of that, there will be an arbitration session that will be honored by both sides. Is this a win? I have no idea as it will depend on what comes of the talks.

    I'd say it's a win even if the binding arbitration determines the contract is over plants closed all jobs lost, it gives them a chance to actually negotiate and reach something maybe more then just the end of the contract

    So here's hoping

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    My union is actually very strong. No union is as strong as an employer however when it comes to exploiting language in a contract.

    Edit: It may be specific to healthcare but employees are pretty limited in their ability to strike or fight back. The resources Kaiser Permanente will utilize to change laws on a state/national level make anything that isn't a negotiation based around new contracts unwinnable.

    The best you can hope for is a settlement offer of back pay and agreement to never work at Kaiser again for wrongful termination.

    I've been in several situations where it's decided that while we're technically correct, the resource investment to prove that is too great because it's not a guaranteed win.

    A company that makes $2,000,000,000 net as a "not for profit" is more than willing to burn workers to the ground through attrition.

    Edit2: I'm active in my union. OFNHP is pretty great. Kaiser Permanente is just awful.

    Kaiser is my healthcare provider.

    I really, REALLY wished we used anyone else but them, being as they cover nothing and charge for everything. I actively avoid medical care unless I feel like I might die just so I don't have to deal with their bullshit.

    As a counterpoint, I'd rather hack off my own leg than use ANYONE in the US healthcare market other than Kaiser. They are literally the only company I even come close to trusting to actually focus on making me well, and not leave me with a bill at the end. I understand that they do offer discount policies which effectively invalidate the entire point of being on Kaiser, but, if you can get the 'actual Kaiser' version of a plan, then its like having healthcare in a real country! No messing around with referrals, and comparing prices, or any of that pointless and dangerous 'market' stuff. Just go to kaiser, and remain there until you are well.

    This once again is predicated upon the problem of "Be rich and you'll be fine". Not a helpful or logically consistent counterpoint.

    Not be rich and you'll be fine. Spend the correct amount on healthcare per person and you'll be fine. You cannot get cheaper good healthcare than is offered by Kaiser. If you want a good policy, then full Kaiser is the amount per person it costs. Now, this cost should be shared across the whole of society with everyone paying for it with taxes, but, that's not Kaiser's fault. They are the cheapest and best healthcare system in the USA.

    That doesn't mean they are affordable to the poor, but that's not Kaiser's fault.

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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    We can probably talk about Kaiser Permanente if there's still a healthcare thread around but I think engaging in this particular conversation fork would open too broad a conversation. The people I work with and the physicians who I've seen as a patient are all very dedicated to their patients, even within the weird policy decisions made by administration.

    Administration doesn't give a flying fuck about patients and is in it for the money at this point though. Don't mistake the system working in spite of them as an accomplishment of the leadership. Recent changes have put people in charge who have worked at 7 hospital systems in 10 years. Who were brought in specifically to carve down the workforce and make money.

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    My union is actually very strong. No union is as strong as an employer however when it comes to exploiting language in a contract.

    Edit: It may be specific to healthcare but employees are pretty limited in their ability to strike or fight back. The resources Kaiser Permanente will utilize to change laws on a state/national level make anything that isn't a negotiation based around new contracts unwinnable.

    The best you can hope for is a settlement offer of back pay and agreement to never work at Kaiser again for wrongful termination.

    I've been in several situations where it's decided that while we're technically correct, the resource investment to prove that is too great because it's not a guaranteed win.

    A company that makes $2,000,000,000 net as a "not for profit" is more than willing to burn workers to the ground through attrition.

    Edit2: I'm active in my union. OFNHP is pretty great. Kaiser Permanente is just awful.

    Kaiser is my healthcare provider.

    I really, REALLY wished we used anyone else but them, being as they cover nothing and charge for everything. I actively avoid medical care unless I feel like I might die just so I don't have to deal with their bullshit.

    As a counterpoint, I'd rather hack off my own leg than use ANYONE in the US healthcare market other than Kaiser. They are literally the only company I even come close to trusting to actually focus on making me well, and not leave me with a bill at the end. I understand that they do offer discount policies which effectively invalidate the entire point of being on Kaiser, but, if you can get the 'actual Kaiser' version of a plan, then its like having healthcare in a real country! No messing around with referrals, and comparing prices, or any of that pointless and dangerous 'market' stuff. Just go to kaiser, and remain there until you are well.

    This once again is predicated upon the problem of "Be rich and you'll be fine". Not a helpful or logically consistent counterpoint.

    Not be rich and you'll be fine. Spend the correct amount on healthcare per person and you'll be fine. You cannot get cheaper good healthcare than is offered by Kaiser. If you want a good policy, then full Kaiser is the amount per person it costs. Now, this cost should be shared across the whole of society with everyone paying for it with taxes, but, that's not Kaiser's fault. They are the cheapest and best healthcare system in the USA.

    That doesn't mean they are affordable to the poor, but that's not Kaiser's fault.

    Disagree.

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  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    So UAW is still striking at GM and there are about even odds that my boss is going to ask me to cross a picket line on Monday.

    So I get to stew on that this weekend.

    Psn:wazukki
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    My union is actually very strong. No union is as strong as an employer however when it comes to exploiting language in a contract.

    Edit: It may be specific to healthcare but employees are pretty limited in their ability to strike or fight back. The resources Kaiser Permanente will utilize to change laws on a state/national level make anything that isn't a negotiation based around new contracts unwinnable.

    The best you can hope for is a settlement offer of back pay and agreement to never work at Kaiser again for wrongful termination.

    I've been in several situations where it's decided that while we're technically correct, the resource investment to prove that is too great because it's not a guaranteed win.

    A company that makes $2,000,000,000 net as a "not for profit" is more than willing to burn workers to the ground through attrition.

    Edit2: I'm active in my union. OFNHP is pretty great. Kaiser Permanente is just awful.

    Kaiser is my healthcare provider.

    I really, REALLY wished we used anyone else but them, being as they cover nothing and charge for everything. I actively avoid medical care unless I feel like I might die just so I don't have to deal with their bullshit.

    As a counterpoint, I'd rather hack off my own leg than use ANYONE in the US healthcare market other than Kaiser. They are literally the only company I even come close to trusting to actually focus on making me well, and not leave me with a bill at the end. I understand that they do offer discount policies which effectively invalidate the entire point of being on Kaiser, but, if you can get the 'actual Kaiser' version of a plan, then its like having healthcare in a real country! No messing around with referrals, and comparing prices, or any of that pointless and dangerous 'market' stuff. Just go to kaiser, and remain there until you are well.

    This once again is predicated upon the problem of "Be rich and you'll be fine". Not a helpful or logically consistent counterpoint.

    Not be rich and you'll be fine. Spend the correct amount on healthcare per person and you'll be fine. You cannot get cheaper good healthcare than is offered by Kaiser. If you want a good policy, then full Kaiser is the amount per person it costs. Now, this cost should be shared across the whole of society with everyone paying for it with taxes, but, that's not Kaiser's fault. They are the cheapest and best healthcare system in the USA.

    That doesn't mean they are affordable to the poor, but that's not Kaiser's fault.

    Disagree.

    Ok then, that's not Kaiser as a healthcare systems fault. It may be Kaiser as a lobbying groups fault, but that's not a fundamental flaw with Kaisers healthcare strategy. If you make the average income (mean, not median) then the amount you pay out of pocket for kaiser is about the same as you should be paying in taxes for everyone to have good healthcare.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited September 30
    Today in Fuck Randy Pitchford:
    Baker is a beloved voice actor who’s voiced dozens of video game characters including Booker DeWitt from BioShock Infinite, Samuel Drake from Uncharted 4, and Snow in Final Fantasy XIII. Baker is also a member of SAG-AFTRA, the union representing voice actors. In an interview with VG247, Baker says that’s what prevented him from joining the cast for Borderlands 3.

    “It was simply a matter of they wouldn’t go union,” Baker told VG247 of Gearbox. He continued:
    “I can’t do a non-union gig. And without getting too deep into the weeds of that, we had long conversations about this. We always knew going into it, that this was going to be the thing. They were going to take these characters, and put them from the Tales from the Borderlands series from Telltale, into Borderlands proper. I’ve been waiting for this call. They were like, ‘Do you want to do this?’ And I said, ‘Yes.’ They never, because they would never move from that position. I’m not mad. It’s invariably a completely different character, but it still stings.”

    AngelHedgie on
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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Point & Clickbait bringing the rough chucks:

    Kickstarter Fires Pro-Union Staff For Attempting To Bring Large Number Of People Together In Pursuit Of Dream
    Speaking exclusively to Point & Clickbait, Kickstarter CEO Aziz Hasan explained that he was sympathetic to the idea of a lot of people all supporting one larger project because it “sounded like a pretty neat concept”, but that the idea was, quite specifically, bad when it was his employees doing it.

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  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    "Kickstarter will recognize a union if our staff votes for one in an NLRB-certified election."

    That's not saying much since at that point they'd be legally forced to recognize the union...

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    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Richland, WARegistered User regular
    Ustwo games, notably the makers of Monument Valley, has been accused of union busting. Game Workers Unite is on it.

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/post/union-busting-at-ustwo-games

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    SEIU is also trying to bust the union of their office staff, so there's that, as well.

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    There was an agreement reached between SEIU and Kaiser Permanente that avoided a strike and basically gave the employees everything they were asking for. I'm a little worried because the agreement hasn't been ratified yet and I don't know what's actually on paper versus what the press releases are but despite my hatred of SEIU, those workers deserve to be protected and organized. It was going to be a 7 day walk out and that's absolutely brutal to people barely making it by.

  • DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist rugged, weathered Registered User regular
    edited November 21
    Google recently hired the union busting firm IRI Consultants.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/20/technology/Google-union-consultant.html

    Maybe now libertarian techbros will realize they're no more secure than home healthcare workers.

    DisruptedCapitalist on
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  • MulysaSemproniusMulysaSempronius but also susie nyRegistered User regular
    So, we're currently voting on a union contract at my work. It is a kind of terrible, but not too bad contract. It gives way too little (raises are just under inflation). But Cuomo refuses to fund higher education in NY, so there is no money for anything better. People are threatening to vote against the contract, but I'm wondering if it's just the louder voices that are against it while the majority are just quiet and vote for it. Guess we'll see when voting wraps up.

    If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
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