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[Marvel] - Introducing Marvel LATER!

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Morkath wrote: »
    I...uh, no?

    That wasn't the point. At all.
    It was the fact that Hill was looking for a humane way to deal with the universes villain problem, and every hero so far has seen it and immediately jumped on her like she was the devil. Yet, none of them (outside of briefly spiderman), take any time to try to deal with their villains.

    It is literally;
    Hill: "These are the worst of the worst, mass murders, terrorists, etc. They have failed every form of rehabilitation and can't be contained by conventional means."
    Hill: "So in order to stop tens of thousands of people being killed every week, we have developed this new method, we use the cosmic cube to wipe their memory and let them lead normal, productive lives in this town we setup for them. It's so nice I am thinking about moving here myself and retiring."
    EverySuperHero: "Jeez Hill, that is way over the line, why don't you just eat some babies while you are at it."
    Hill: "I hate all of you, and I wish I was dead."

    e:
    Basically given they end their responsibility after having caused massive property damage, and having dropped the villains off for the muggles to deal with. It is kind of condescending to sit there and that harshly judge someone for trying to do their job, in keeping the normals safe.

    Except that what she's done is opened Pandora's Box. There are a number of dystopian tales written about the exact thing that she did, and for good reason!

    You're basically trusting that the person rewriting memories won't abuse the power. What happens when they do?

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  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    Morkath wrote: »
    I...uh, no?

    That wasn't the point. At all.
    It was the fact that Hill was looking for a humane way to deal with the universes villain problem, and every hero so far has seen it and immediately jumped on her like she was the devil. Yet, none of them (outside of briefly spiderman), take any time to try to deal with their villains.

    It is literally;
    Hill: "These are the worst of the worst, mass murders, terrorists, etc. They have failed every form of rehabilitation and can't be contained by conventional means."
    Hill: "So in order to stop tens of thousands of people being killed every week, we have developed this new method, we use the cosmic cube to wipe their memory and let them lead normal, productive lives in this town we setup for them. It's so nice I am thinking about moving here myself and retiring."
    EverySuperHero: "Jeez Hill, that is way over the line, why don't you just eat some babies while you are at it."
    Hill: "I hate all of you, and I wish I was dead."

    e:
    Basically given they end their responsibility after having caused massive property damage, and having dropped the villains off for the muggles to deal with. It is kind of condescending to sit there and that harshly judge someone for trying to do their job, in keeping the normals safe.

    Except that what she's done is opened Pandora's Box. There are a number of dystopian tales written about the exact thing that she did, and for good reason!

    You're basically trusting that the person rewriting memories won't abuse the power. What happens when they do?

    Eh.

    What happens when Thor abuses his power, what happens when the Sentry abuses his, what happens when Stark abuses his, etc etc.

    Your point is valid, and a concern. Just, not from the group that is doing the judgment.

    hobbessig.png
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Other people with potentially devastating powers are perfectly valid watchdogs for each other. That they could also end up the same way doesn't make their criticism inherently invalid.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
    AngelHedgie
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Other people with potentially devastating powers are perfectly valid watchdogs for each other. That they could also end up the same way doesn't make their criticism inherently invalid.

    So how are they not a watchdog for Maria in that case?

    Stark has literally created a worse prison, plus tried to essentially enslave uh, LA was it? With his ExtremisApp and is giving her shit like he is better than her.

    hobbessig.png
  • TexiKenTexiKen Very cool. Verycool. Verrikool. Verikul.Registered User regular
    Captain America Sam Wilson #13 of course has USAgent lose to the title character because people are super jelly continue to smother John Walker's brilliance, and while Spencer isn't as balanced as he was in the previous issues with the characters, he's putting enough out there in the misunderstanding fisticuffs heroes have that by the end of whatever this story is, all the Captain Americas will team up together and fight the evil Hydra political stand-ins that are just so lazy a story idea. It also looks like this is tying into the Cap is sleeper Hydra Agent story as the cop-out card. One thing the issues have done more is show that Spencer doesn't know much about Walker's actual published history beyond the generalities of "80's Reagan Cap"; he's not subservient to Steve's wishes at all, that's like the whole point of the dynamic between the two and has always been established beyond the likely twelve issue Gruenwald run Spencer read in preparation of this story. They've gotten along once in the past few years and that was when Steve was wearing the NFL Superpro armor about to die and Walker was in Force Works (it was the FW Christmas party issue). Hell, Hawkeye and USAgent have gotten along better over the years.


    Death of X #1, on top of having Hydra show up as villain stand-in (seriously, please, stop with Hydra, Marvel, it's getting ridiculous), it's just nothing that seems like what has already been set up the past year while they scramble for an idea. Mists kill mutants, Inhumans are so happy the mists are making more Inhumans, mutants are so sad (and they kill off Jamie Madrox too, but they'll just do what they did back in the 90's with him still having a multiple out there wandering the earth). Cyclops is being set up as going to 11 in retaliation because it's the laziest thing to do making him the go-to villain and because Inhumans are still trying to be made fetch. You can see how it will go, Cyclops hates how the mist continues to spread and kill mutants while no one does anything, least of all the Inhumans, they'll hear about it soon and try and do something to help but then Cyclops before he dies or is depowered or sterile or whatever will blow up some Puppy Kitty Inhuman day care and make the Inhumans and humans too hate the mutants again.

    Soule's a good writer and it's not bad with what he has to work with (also seems like he's trying to get Scott and Emma back together which is yay), the same with Kuder's art, it's just stuff that has already been set up. If this is actually being framed in a way where it will be out and out Inhumans vs X-Men and nothing like AvX where you have people switching sides or looking for middle ground, which given that Beast is hanging out with the Inhumans them I doubt, that would be a very new take to this kind of fight. Both sides fighting for their own kind's survival, no middle ground, no outside forces. Hell, just an acknowledgement by Marvel that the Inhumans aren't catching on as much as they expected or tried to offer, that would be some nice meta commentary too.

    rlmnc%202_zpsttgnjc6l.jpg
    Bobby Derie
  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    As much as I dislike it when superhero comics go full soap opera with the romantic relationships, I do have to admit I liked Scott/Emma much better than Scott/Jean Grey. Although that might just be because Jean Grey has been dead for a long time, Emma is a more developed character, and Scott/Emma can have better arguments without a Wolverine love triangle.

    The Unpublishable - Original fiction blog, updates Fridays
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  • InterpreterInterpreter Registered User regular
    As much as I dislike it when superhero comics go full soap opera with the romantic relationships, I do have to admit I liked Scott/Emma much better than Scott/Jean Grey. Although that might just be because Jean Grey has been dead for a long time, Emma is a more developed character, and Scott/Emma can have better arguments without a Wolverine love triangle.

    Instead writers like to have the Scott/Emma/Jean triangle, even though Jean has been dead for a decade or something, and the teenage version running about is trying her hardest to do everything different from older Jean so she won't die.

    ShadowenBobby Derie
  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    Yeah, there are folks still fixated on Jean Grey/Scott Summers as OTP. Which I can relate to: any time Mary Jane doesn't end up with Peter Parker, or Susan Storm doesn't end up with Reed Richards, I feel like mommy is cheating on daddy (or vice versa).

    Yet if you asked me straight up, I'd have a hard time pointing out why Mary Jane and Peter Parker "work" as a couple for me while Jean Grey/Scott Summers kinda doesn't. I mean, they were both the default relationships for those characters when I was growing up reading comics (okay, Jean had the Wolverine love triangle when Claremont was writing). Did Mary Jane and Peter Parker have more chemistry under Spider-Man's writers? Or am I just pissed at the way they were broken up? Jean Grey dies, nobody blames Scott for moving on; Peter Parker makes a deal with a devil and annuls his marriage, that's just an ill-conceived dick move and the next couple of relationships just squick me the hell out. (Basically, any plot with Spider-Man and pheromones just feels terrible thought-out.)

    But that tends to come down to headcanon more than anything else, and might be something better fitted to revive the Continuity thread. After all, how many people remember when Scott was telepathically cheating on Jean? How many folks remember that Hank Pym hit his wife? (Actually, probably lots of people on that last one, it seems to have become "sticky" continuity that adheres to a character even after reboots). Because pretty soon I'll get on the Wonder Woman movie and Steve Trevor, and this ain't the right multiverse...

    The Unpublishable - Original fiction blog, updates Fridays
    Sex & the Cthulhu Mythos
    143999Morkath
  • InterpreterInterpreter Registered User regular
    Yeah, there are folks still fixated on Jean Grey/Scott Summers as OTP. Which I can relate to: any time Mary Jane doesn't end up with Peter Parker, or Susan Storm doesn't end up with Reed Richards, I feel like mommy is cheating on daddy (or vice versa).

    Yet if you asked me straight up, I'd have a hard time pointing out why Mary Jane and Peter Parker "work" as a couple for me while Jean Grey/Scott Summers kinda doesn't. I mean, they were both the default relationships for those characters when I was growing up reading comics (okay, Jean had the Wolverine love triangle when Claremont was writing). Did Mary Jane and Peter Parker have more chemistry under Spider-Man's writers? Or am I just pissed at the way they were broken up? Jean Grey dies, nobody blames Scott for moving on; Peter Parker makes a deal with a devil and annuls his marriage, that's just an ill-conceived dick move and the next couple of relationships just squick me the hell out. (Basically, any plot with Spider-Man and pheromones just feels terrible thought-out.)

    It depended on the writer. Some writers made the marriage work, and show it as a normal relationship, with its ups and downs(for example, one of the writers during the first Civil War had MJ go to lunch with Sue Richards to see how she made her marriage work), but other writers seemed to not know what to do, so had MJ heading off to nightclubs or something whenever they showed her in the books.

    As for how the marriage was ended, I'm pissed about how they did it, and then their saying of how everything happened, but they weren't married(which makes stories where Peter or MJ declared something along the lines of "He's/She's my husband/wife!" suddenly have much less weight compared to "we're just in a committed relationship.").

  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    Yeah, there are folks still fixated on Jean Grey/Scott Summers as OTP. Which I can relate to: any time Mary Jane doesn't end up with Peter Parker, or Susan Storm doesn't end up with Reed Richards, I feel like mommy is cheating on daddy (or vice versa).

    Yet if you asked me straight up, I'd have a hard time pointing out why Mary Jane and Peter Parker "work" as a couple for me while Jean Grey/Scott Summers kinda doesn't. I mean, they were both the default relationships for those characters when I was growing up reading comics (okay, Jean had the Wolverine love triangle when Claremont was writing). Did Mary Jane and Peter Parker have more chemistry under Spider-Man's writers? Or am I just pissed at the way they were broken up? Jean Grey dies, nobody blames Scott for moving on; Peter Parker makes a deal with a devil and annuls his marriage, that's just an ill-conceived dick move and the next couple of relationships just squick me the hell out. (Basically, any plot with Spider-Man and pheromones just feels terrible thought-out.)

    But that tends to come down to headcanon more than anything else, and might be something better fitted to revive the Continuity thread. After all, how many people remember when Scott was telepathically cheating on Jean? How many folks remember that Hank Pym hit his wife? (Actually, probably lots of people on that last one, it seems to have become "sticky" continuity that adheres to a character even after reboots). Because pretty soon I'll get on the Wonder Woman movie and Steve Trevor, and this ain't the right multiverse...

    Because MJ was a super model who hooked up with a bookish nerd. That is like wish fulfillment for a lot of readers.

    They really don't make a lot of sense as a couple as adults. At least during the highschool era, it kind of made sense. He stood up to bullies, was a smart kid/nice guy, and lived next door to her / was around to help her through tough times. Them dating for a few years feels like something that could occur.

    As adults...they have nothing in common, he is constantly bailing on her at every opportunity in order to super hero, without her knowing why. She is off being a movie star/model.

    I love spiderman as a character, but I honestly don't think I can ever see him in a relationship that doesn't feel weird. His character just does not allow for one to actually build, since he will always put doing the right thing over maintaing his relationships.
    Even the battleworld story where he retired to raise his family after the Regent took over felt super sketchy. It is just not in his character to sit there and do nothing.

    Reed kind of has the same issue, but he has Ben, Jonny, and Sue herself there to smack him upside the head and remind him that family is first for him, super heroing second whenever he starts to stray.
    Well except ultimate reed, whoops.jpg.

    hobbessig.png
  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    As much as I dislike it when superhero comics go full soap opera with the romantic relationships, I do have to admit I liked Scott/Emma much better than Scott/Jean Grey. Although that might just be because Jean Grey has been dead for a long time, Emma is a more developed character, and Scott/Emma can have better arguments without a Wolverine love triangle.

    I like it because Scott and Emma came together as adults, and their relationship feels a lot more balanced than Scott and Jean's did. I think it helps that Emma has a very distinct voice from which people have written her from compared to Jean, who often can feel very different depending on the writer and had a lot harder time getting consistent develop like say, Sue Storm did. With Emma having a very defined character it is easier to play her off Scott. Their relationship is more equal with both of them not hesitating to call each other out on their bullshit, while still being able to be (mostly) supportive of one another. It feels very believable to me that those two end up together and are able to make it work for as long as they did.

    I think this is the most important thing that people forget about US government. Moses didn't come down Mt Rushmore with the Bill of Rights on a tablet from God.
    Morkathvagrant_windschiasaur11Bobby DerieCentipede Damascus
  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    Morkath wrote: »

    Reed kind of has the same issue, but he has Ben, Jonny, and Sue herself there to smack him upside the head and remind him that family is first for him, super heroing second whenever he starts to stray.
    Well except ultimate reed, whoops.jpg.

    Every Reed except 616, according to the Hickman run. Our Reed is the only one who, in the middle of Science, will pause and go

    "Shit! Anniversary! I need to do something nice for Sue! Science can wait!"

    (I mean, yes. They were married in October, and he might not remember until July, but it's the thought that counts.)

    MorkathShadowenSpoit
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »

    Reed kind of has the same issue, but he has Ben, Jonny, and Sue herself there to smack him upside the head and remind him that family is first for him, super heroing second whenever he starts to stray.
    Well except ultimate reed, whoops.jpg.

    Every Reed except 616, according to the Hickman run. Our Reed is the only one who, in the middle of Science, will pause and go

    "Shit! Anniversary! I need to do something nice for Sue! Science can wait!"

    (I mean, yes. They were married in October, and he might not remember until July, but it's the thought that counts.)

    Man, that makes me think of a tangent that always bugs me.

    Have we talked about how stupid it is that he or McCoy haven't cured cancer yet? Like all the crazy shit they supposedly invent/do on a constant basis, and they haven't dealt with that yet?

    Especially given the power level Reed/family is sitting at right now.

    hobbessig.png
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Morkath wrote: »
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »

    Reed kind of has the same issue, but he has Ben, Jonny, and Sue herself there to smack him upside the head and remind him that family is first for him, super heroing second whenever he starts to stray.
    Well except ultimate reed, whoops.jpg.

    Every Reed except 616, according to the Hickman run. Our Reed is the only one who, in the middle of Science, will pause and go

    "Shit! Anniversary! I need to do something nice for Sue! Science can wait!"

    (I mean, yes. They were married in October, and he might not remember until July, but it's the thought that counts.)

    Man, that makes me think of a tangent that always bugs me.

    Have we talked about how stupid it is that he or McCoy haven't cured cancer yet? Like all the crazy shit they supposedly invent/do on a constant basis, and they haven't dealt with that yet?

    Especially given the power level Reed/family is sitting at right now.

    Maybe they have. When did we last see someone in a Marvel comic with cancer?

    kagg_banner.png
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Revenge of Purple Steve Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »

    Reed kind of has the same issue, but he has Ben, Jonny, and Sue herself there to smack him upside the head and remind him that family is first for him, super heroing second whenever he starts to stray.
    Well except ultimate reed, whoops.jpg.

    Every Reed except 616, according to the Hickman run. Our Reed is the only one who, in the middle of Science, will pause and go

    "Shit! Anniversary! I need to do something nice for Sue! Science can wait!"

    (I mean, yes. They were married in October, and he might not remember until July, but it's the thought that counts.)

    Man, that makes me think of a tangent that always bugs me.

    Have we talked about how stupid it is that he or McCoy haven't cured cancer yet? Like all the crazy shit they supposedly invent/do on a constant basis, and they haven't dealt with that yet?

    Especially given the power level Reed/family is sitting at right now.

    Maybe they have. When did we last see someone in a Marvel comic with cancer?

    Jane Foster has cancer right at this moment.

    Becoming Thor purges her of toxins, so it basically wipes out her chemo every time she picks up her hammer.

    EDIT: Though I'm pretty sure other people have cured cancer. The kree, IIRC, had a cure (though they refer to cancer as "the black death") and were willing to use it for Captain Marvel, but it wasn't going to work for various reasons. Also I think the organization Deadpool worked for (or was fighting against, I forget) made bullets that could cure cancer; specifically to upset Deadpools cancer/healing factor balance and kill him.

    Undead Scottsman on
    n_zpsb1ejvspv.png
    Morkath
  • lunchbox12682lunchbox12682 MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »

    Reed kind of has the same issue, but he has Ben, Jonny, and Sue herself there to smack him upside the head and remind him that family is first for him, super heroing second whenever he starts to stray.
    Well except ultimate reed, whoops.jpg.

    Every Reed except 616, according to the Hickman run. Our Reed is the only one who, in the middle of Science, will pause and go

    "Shit! Anniversary! I need to do something nice for Sue! Science can wait!"

    (I mean, yes. They were married in October, and he might not remember until July, but it's the thought that counts.)

    Man, that makes me think of a tangent that always bugs me.

    Have we talked about how stupid it is that he or McCoy haven't cured cancer yet? Like all the crazy shit they supposedly invent/do on a constant basis, and they haven't dealt with that yet?

    Especially given the power level Reed/family is sitting at right now.

    Maybe they have. When did we last see someone in a Marvel comic with cancer?

    Jane Foster has cancer right at this moment.

    Becoming Thor purges her of toxins, so it basically wipes out her chemo every time she picks up her hammer.

    EDIT: Though I'm pretty sure other people have cured cancer. The kree, IIRC, had a cure (though they refer to cancer as "the black death") and were willing to use it for Captain Marvel, but it wasn't going to work for various reasons. Also I think the organization Deadpool worked for (or was fighting against, I forget) made bullets that could cure cancer; specifically to upset Deadpools cancer/healing factor balance and kill him.

    And I'm sure we all remember Angel and his healing blood.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    never die wrote: »
    As much as I dislike it when superhero comics go full soap opera with the romantic relationships, I do have to admit I liked Scott/Emma much better than Scott/Jean Grey. Although that might just be because Jean Grey has been dead for a long time, Emma is a more developed character, and Scott/Emma can have better arguments without a Wolverine love triangle.

    I like it because Scott and Emma came together as adults, and their relationship feels a lot more balanced than Scott and Jean's did. I think it helps that Emma has a very distinct voice from which people have written her from compared to Jean, who often can feel very different depending on the writer and had a lot harder time getting consistent develop like say, Sue Storm did. With Emma having a very defined character it is easier to play her off Scott. Their relationship is more equal with both of them not hesitating to call each other out on their bullshit, while still being able to be (mostly) supportive of one another. It feels very believable to me that those two end up together and are able to make it work for as long as they did.

    Emma is just written as a much more human character; Jean Grey's emotional state varied between total control/den mother/etc and 'completely crazy', while Frost is a lot more complicated (to some extent this is down to the writers who really made Scott/Emma a thing just being really good.)

    The Scott/Emma relationship also gets to hit a lot more broadly relatable beats; it begins as an affair, both partners are alternatively jealous and deal with trust issues, and mixes work/romance. Also notably, they're the only comic couple I can think of that actually get to discuss these things like something resembling adults.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    accept your death, and become dangerous
    never dieTexiKendesc
  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »

    Reed kind of has the same issue, but he has Ben, Jonny, and Sue herself there to smack him upside the head and remind him that family is first for him, super heroing second whenever he starts to stray.
    Well except ultimate reed, whoops.jpg.

    Every Reed except 616, according to the Hickman run. Our Reed is the only one who, in the middle of Science, will pause and go

    "Shit! Anniversary! I need to do something nice for Sue! Science can wait!"

    (I mean, yes. They were married in October, and he might not remember until July, but it's the thought that counts.)

    Man, that makes me think of a tangent that always bugs me.

    Have we talked about how stupid it is that he or McCoy haven't cured cancer yet? Like all the crazy shit they supposedly invent/do on a constant basis, and they haven't dealt with that yet?

    Especially given the power level Reed/family is sitting at right now.

    Maybe they have. When did we last see someone in a Marvel comic with cancer?

    Jane Foster has cancer right at this moment.

    Becoming Thor purges her of toxins, so it basically wipes out her chemo every time she picks up her hammer.

    EDIT: Though I'm pretty sure other people have cured cancer. The kree, IIRC, had a cure (though they refer to cancer as "the black death") and were willing to use it for Captain Marvel, but it wasn't going to work for various reasons. Also I think the organization Deadpool worked for (or was fighting against, I forget) made bullets that could cure cancer; specifically to upset Deadpools cancer/healing factor balance and kill him.

    And I'm sure we all remember Angel and his healing blood.

    Angel didn't get healing blood as a secondary mutation until the 00s, as I recall. Actually, this reminds me of when this whole idea was sort of lampooned in The Authority...and the pages of Spider-Man:

    bf2e2OO.jpg

    The Unpublishable - Original fiction blog, updates Fridays
    Sex & the Cthulhu Mythos
    Golden YakDouglasDangernever dieIncenjucar
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »

    Reed kind of has the same issue, but he has Ben, Jonny, and Sue herself there to smack him upside the head and remind him that family is first for him, super heroing second whenever he starts to stray.
    Well except ultimate reed, whoops.jpg.

    Every Reed except 616, according to the Hickman run. Our Reed is the only one who, in the middle of Science, will pause and go

    "Shit! Anniversary! I need to do something nice for Sue! Science can wait!"

    (I mean, yes. They were married in October, and he might not remember until July, but it's the thought that counts.)

    Man, that makes me think of a tangent that always bugs me.

    Have we talked about how stupid it is that he or McCoy haven't cured cancer yet? Like all the crazy shit they supposedly invent/do on a constant basis, and they haven't dealt with that yet?

    Especially given the power level Reed/family is sitting at right now.

    Maybe they have. When did we last see someone in a Marvel comic with cancer?

    Jane Foster has cancer right at this moment.

    Becoming Thor purges her of toxins, so it basically wipes out her chemo every time she picks up her hammer.

    EDIT: Though I'm pretty sure other people have cured cancer. The kree, IIRC, had a cure (though they refer to cancer as "the black death") and were willing to use it for Captain Marvel, but it wasn't going to work for various reasons. Also I think the organization Deadpool worked for (or was fighting against, I forget) made bullets that could cure cancer; specifically to upset Deadpools cancer/healing factor balance and kill him.

    Fuck, how did I forget that. But haha! The kree actually call cancer 'the blackened'! Marvel trivia points score! Shame is offset! Hurf hurf hurf!

    But I suspect the real reason we don't get these vast, sweeping medical/technological changes is because it'd mean too drastic a departure from the real world. And I realize it sounds goofy to say that in comics with all the flying weirdoes, but if you make the world they're flying around in too wildly different it won't have the same impact. Yes, you can give SHIELD floating helicarriers, but curing the common world of cancer or ending hunger or wiping out homelessness and things like that would make too, well, unrealistic is I guess the term I'm looking for. Again, it seems weird to say. It be a book like Authority or the end of Planetary, where the status quo is so wildly changed that it would lose the immersion that Marvel books have. And you'd have to carry the new status quo across the entire line to keep things consistent. Easier to have Reed building stargates I think.

    kagg_banner.png
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »

    Reed kind of has the same issue, but he has Ben, Jonny, and Sue herself there to smack him upside the head and remind him that family is first for him, super heroing second whenever he starts to stray.
    Well except ultimate reed, whoops.jpg.

    Every Reed except 616, according to the Hickman run. Our Reed is the only one who, in the middle of Science, will pause and go

    "Shit! Anniversary! I need to do something nice for Sue! Science can wait!"

    (I mean, yes. They were married in October, and he might not remember until July, but it's the thought that counts.)

    Man, that makes me think of a tangent that always bugs me.

    Have we talked about how stupid it is that he or McCoy haven't cured cancer yet? Like all the crazy shit they supposedly invent/do on a constant basis, and they haven't dealt with that yet?

    Especially given the power level Reed/family is sitting at right now.

    Maybe they have. When did we last see someone in a Marvel comic with cancer?

    Jane Foster has cancer right at this moment.

    Becoming Thor purges her of toxins, so it basically wipes out her chemo every time she picks up her hammer.

    EDIT: Though I'm pretty sure other people have cured cancer. The kree, IIRC, had a cure (though they refer to cancer as "the black death") and were willing to use it for Captain Marvel, but it wasn't going to work for various reasons. Also I think the organization Deadpool worked for (or was fighting against, I forget) made bullets that could cure cancer; specifically to upset Deadpools cancer/healing factor balance and kill him.

    And I'm sure we all remember Angel and his healing blood.

    Angel didn't get healing blood as a secondary mutation until the 00s, as I recall. Actually, this reminds me of when this whole idea was sort of lampooned in The Authority...and the pages of Spider-Man:

    bf2e2OO.jpg

    To be fair, if I could either cure cancer or turn people into dinosaurs, 9 out of 10 time I'd pick turn people into dinosaurs.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »

    Reed kind of has the same issue, but he has Ben, Jonny, and Sue herself there to smack him upside the head and remind him that family is first for him, super heroing second whenever he starts to stray.
    Well except ultimate reed, whoops.jpg.

    Every Reed except 616, according to the Hickman run. Our Reed is the only one who, in the middle of Science, will pause and go

    "Shit! Anniversary! I need to do something nice for Sue! Science can wait!"

    (I mean, yes. They were married in October, and he might not remember until July, but it's the thought that counts.)

    Man, that makes me think of a tangent that always bugs me.

    Have we talked about how stupid it is that he or McCoy haven't cured cancer yet? Like all the crazy shit they supposedly invent/do on a constant basis, and they haven't dealt with that yet?

    Especially given the power level Reed/family is sitting at right now.

    Maybe they have. When did we last see someone in a Marvel comic with cancer?

    Jane Foster has cancer right at this moment.

    Becoming Thor purges her of toxins, so it basically wipes out her chemo every time she picks up her hammer.

    EDIT: Though I'm pretty sure other people have cured cancer. The kree, IIRC, had a cure (though they refer to cancer as "the black death") and were willing to use it for Captain Marvel, but it wasn't going to work for various reasons. Also I think the organization Deadpool worked for (or was fighting against, I forget) made bullets that could cure cancer; specifically to upset Deadpools cancer/healing factor balance and kill him.

    Fuck, how did I forget that. But haha! The kree actually call cancer 'the blackened'! Marvel trivia points score! Shame is offset! Hurf hurf hurf!

    But I suspect the real reason we don't get these vast, sweeping medical/technological changes is because it'd mean too drastic a departure from the real world. And I realize it sounds goofy to say that in comics with all the flying weirdoes, but if you make the world they're flying around in too wildly different it won't have the same impact. Yes, you can give SHIELD floating helicarriers, but curing the common world of cancer or ending hunger or wiping out homelessness and things like that would make too, well, unrealistic is I guess the term I'm looking for. Again, it seems weird to say. It be a book like Authority or the end of Planetary, where the status quo is so wildly changed that it would lose the immersion that Marvel books have. And you'd have to carry the new status quo across the entire line to keep things consistent. Easier to have Reed building stargates I think.

    The mutants did solve (and implement a fix for) world hunger.

    Also, I would totally accept them curing cancer, but making it cost prohibitive in some way that prevents it from being used on the common populace. I just roll my eyes at the Jane Foster and Captain Marvel stories, due to the amount of magical and technological support she has access to, that should be able to deal with it.

    Morkath on
    hobbessig.png
  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    Look on the bright side: 20 years ago, Jane Foster would probably have HIV.

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  • TexiKenTexiKen Very cool. Verycool. Verrikool. Verikul.Registered User regular
    This was during Hudlin's run and might have been ignored, but Wakanda has had the cure for cancer for a while and just never shared it with the outside world.

    rlmnc%202_zpsttgnjc6l.jpg
    Shadowen
  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    tumblr_mdyhzmSE241rloygko1_1280.png

    The Unpublishable - Original fiction blog, updates Fridays
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  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds is pumped-up. Registered User regular
    I finally read the first volume of The Visions.

    I.... I think I need a hug after that.

    M5Bw6j7.png
    // Steam & LoL: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds // 3DS: 4682-8868-5037 // WiiU: VagrantWinds //
    Bobby DerieMorkath
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Revenge of Purple Steve Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Morkath wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »

    Reed kind of has the same issue, but he has Ben, Jonny, and Sue herself there to smack him upside the head and remind him that family is first for him, super heroing second whenever he starts to stray.
    Well except ultimate reed, whoops.jpg.

    Every Reed except 616, according to the Hickman run. Our Reed is the only one who, in the middle of Science, will pause and go

    "Shit! Anniversary! I need to do something nice for Sue! Science can wait!"

    (I mean, yes. They were married in October, and he might not remember until July, but it's the thought that counts.)

    Man, that makes me think of a tangent that always bugs me.

    Have we talked about how stupid it is that he or McCoy haven't cured cancer yet? Like all the crazy shit they supposedly invent/do on a constant basis, and they haven't dealt with that yet?

    Especially given the power level Reed/family is sitting at right now.

    Maybe they have. When did we last see someone in a Marvel comic with cancer?

    Jane Foster has cancer right at this moment.

    Becoming Thor purges her of toxins, so it basically wipes out her chemo every time she picks up her hammer.

    EDIT: Though I'm pretty sure other people have cured cancer. The kree, IIRC, had a cure (though they refer to cancer as "the black death") and were willing to use it for Captain Marvel, but it wasn't going to work for various reasons. Also I think the organization Deadpool worked for (or was fighting against, I forget) made bullets that could cure cancer; specifically to upset Deadpools cancer/healing factor balance and kill him.

    Fuck, how did I forget that. But haha! The kree actually call cancer 'the blackened'! Marvel trivia points score! Shame is offset! Hurf hurf hurf!

    But I suspect the real reason we don't get these vast, sweeping medical/technological changes is because it'd mean too drastic a departure from the real world. And I realize it sounds goofy to say that in comics with all the flying weirdoes, but if you make the world they're flying around in too wildly different it won't have the same impact. Yes, you can give SHIELD floating helicarriers, but curing the common world of cancer or ending hunger or wiping out homelessness and things like that would make too, well, unrealistic is I guess the term I'm looking for. Again, it seems weird to say. It be a book like Authority or the end of Planetary, where the status quo is so wildly changed that it would lose the immersion that Marvel books have. And you'd have to carry the new status quo across the entire line to keep things consistent. Easier to have Reed building stargates I think.

    The mutants did solve (and implement a fix for) world hunger.

    Also, I would totally accept them curing cancer, but making it cost prohibitive in some way that prevents it from being used on the common populace. I just roll my eyes at the Jane Foster and Captain Marvel stories, due to the amount of magical and technological support she has access to, that should be able to deal with it.

    Jane Foster refuses magical treatments because she knows they all have bullshit hidden costs, and she refuses advanced technological treatments because she's a doctor and she wants to solve her problems like she would for one of her patients, not get bailed out because she happens to know some important people.

    IIRC, Captain Marvel's negabands basically kept his cancer at bay for a decade, without him realizing it. The problem is that made his cancer so aggressive in the end that, if he were to remove the negabands (which would be required for any cure) the illness would basically kill him instantly. Also, Death of Captain Marvel is an incredible book, I highly recommend it.

    Undead Scottsman on
    n_zpsb1ejvspv.png
    Bobby Derie
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    Morkath wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »

    Reed kind of has the same issue, but he has Ben, Jonny, and Sue herself there to smack him upside the head and remind him that family is first for him, super heroing second whenever he starts to stray.
    Well except ultimate reed, whoops.jpg.

    Every Reed except 616, according to the Hickman run. Our Reed is the only one who, in the middle of Science, will pause and go

    "Shit! Anniversary! I need to do something nice for Sue! Science can wait!"

    (I mean, yes. They were married in October, and he might not remember until July, but it's the thought that counts.)

    Man, that makes me think of a tangent that always bugs me.

    Have we talked about how stupid it is that he or McCoy haven't cured cancer yet? Like all the crazy shit they supposedly invent/do on a constant basis, and they haven't dealt with that yet?

    Especially given the power level Reed/family is sitting at right now.

    Maybe they have. When did we last see someone in a Marvel comic with cancer?

    Jane Foster has cancer right at this moment.

    Becoming Thor purges her of toxins, so it basically wipes out her chemo every time she picks up her hammer.

    EDIT: Though I'm pretty sure other people have cured cancer. The kree, IIRC, had a cure (though they refer to cancer as "the black death") and were willing to use it for Captain Marvel, but it wasn't going to work for various reasons. Also I think the organization Deadpool worked for (or was fighting against, I forget) made bullets that could cure cancer; specifically to upset Deadpools cancer/healing factor balance and kill him.

    Fuck, how did I forget that. But haha! The kree actually call cancer 'the blackened'! Marvel trivia points score! Shame is offset! Hurf hurf hurf!

    But I suspect the real reason we don't get these vast, sweeping medical/technological changes is because it'd mean too drastic a departure from the real world. And I realize it sounds goofy to say that in comics with all the flying weirdoes, but if you make the world they're flying around in too wildly different it won't have the same impact. Yes, you can give SHIELD floating helicarriers, but curing the common world of cancer or ending hunger or wiping out homelessness and things like that would make too, well, unrealistic is I guess the term I'm looking for. Again, it seems weird to say. It be a book like Authority or the end of Planetary, where the status quo is so wildly changed that it would lose the immersion that Marvel books have. And you'd have to carry the new status quo across the entire line to keep things consistent. Easier to have Reed building stargates I think.

    The mutants did solve (and implement a fix for) world hunger.

    Also, I would totally accept them curing cancer, but making it cost prohibitive in some way that prevents it from being used on the common populace. I just roll my eyes at the Jane Foster and Captain Marvel stories, due to the amount of magical and technological support she has access to, that should be able to deal with it.

    Jane Foster refuses magical treatments because she knows they all have bullshit hidden costs, and she refuses advanced technological treatments because she's a doctor and she wants to solve her problems like she would for one of her patients, not get bailed out because she happens to know some important people.

    IIRC, Captain Marvel's negabands basically kept his cancer at bay for a decade, without him realizing it. The problem is that made his cancer so aggressive in the end that, if he were to remove the negabands (which would be required for any cure) the illness would basically kill him instantly. Also, Death of Captain Marvel is an incredible book, I highly recommend it.

    Which is such a fucking copoout answer to add drama. She isn't solving her problems like her patients, since every time she turns into "Thor" to save the world/people, she cancels out the effect. I can see the magical treatment aspect, I guess. Although if the "side effects" were really that bad, the asgardians wouldn't still be using it.

    Not to mention the fact, people who routinely save the world from annihilation SHOULD be getting priority treatment for shit like that.

    hobbessig.png
    DouglasDangervagrant_windschiasaur11
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds is pumped-up. Registered User regular
    More new Marvel Statues coming out. Fuck, I want this one.

    RfhiDD7.jpg?1

    M5Bw6j7.png
    // Steam & LoL: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds // 3DS: 4682-8868-5037 // WiiU: VagrantWinds //
    never die
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Hello god.

    kagg_banner.png
    vagrant_windsBobby DerieCommander Zoom
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Hello god(s).

    ftfy

    Also, been reading the original agent venom stuff, since I apparently skipped over it accidentally awhile back. It is really jarring how he goes from killing a ton of henchmen/mooks, to suddenly suffering moral quandary over killing the main villain who was controlling them.

    I understand WHY they do it, keep the main villain around, comics, etc. But it is really jarring during the story itself. I like the character, but space knight venom definitely handled it better.

    hobbessig.png
  • TexiKenTexiKen Very cool. Verycool. Verrikool. Verikul.Registered User regular
    Death of X #2, it felt like what was written and what was drawn were two completely different scripts, the way it just makes no sense it how jumps from A to B. They're setting up something like Scott is dying and Emma might be controlling him or doing something to keep him alive like some Weekend at Bernie's thing, but it's all so fast moving and confusing I have no idea. The reveal at the end looked like it wanted to be some massive twist but it really wasn't? Even for someone who hasn't read any X-Men comics in over a year, I don't know why it was seen as a cliffhanger when the one character has basically been doing what he does for two or three years now.

    rlmnc%202_zpsttgnjc6l.jpg
    mrmr
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Oh man, Marvel put some great stuff up on MU this week:
    • Frankenstein (1973) #1-18
    • Giant-Size Man-Thing (1974) #1-5
    • Man-Thing (1974) #1-8
    • Moon Knight (1980) #1-23
    • Werewolf by Night (1972) #1-32

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    More new Marvel Statues coming out. Fuck, I want this one.

    RfhiDD7.jpg?1

    I have seen a burlesque performance that was basically exactly this. Well, it started that way. ..

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
    jdarksun
  • ThisThis BLUDGEON Registered User regular
    So I just read the new Thanos #1. No spoilers, but I haven't been impressed with anything they've done with Thanos in a long time. It seems like nobody but Jim Starlin has any idea what makes the character interesting. He was dull as hell in Infinity, and he's pretty dull here too. He doesn't seem to have any personality other than "menacing/evil". I mean sure he is those things, but he's also philosophical and even whimsical at times. I think the writing is the main culprit, but the art takes some blame. No facial expression, and for some reason he's gigantic now? He never used to be that big.

    Zavian
  • TexiKenTexiKen Very cool. Verycool. Verrikool. Verikul.Registered User regular
    Death of X #4, quasi-called it.

    One of the terrigan mist clouds is removed but Alchemy died changing it to be non lethal to mutants.

    And then fake Cyclops walked out to confront Medusa and Black Bolt in the middle of the cloud and Black Bolt kills him. While the other X-Men watch. And they do nothing. It's an absolutely terrible setup and even with as hackneyed as they've tried to make Cyclops a bad guy since AvX, this was a joke, not just in his death, but everyone just going "oh well, he's dead, truce?"

    The twist is, as shown by Havok talking with Emma, Cyclops died in issue #1 with that terrigan mist, but Emma was making everyone think he was still alive, and she might have a part of him in her head and she's basically going crazy at the moment.

    What makes no sense is also how a year ago they kept making a big deal about "what Scott did" and all this tension when I was reading the first few issues of Extraordinary X-Men before just losing complete interest in it. It seemed set up like he killed the Inhumans or changed the mists to hurt them instead during the 8 month gap, but he actually just dissipated one mist cloud, at the expense of himself and Alchemy basically and some Muir Island mutants.

    So in all, Cyclops is dead, Emma is going to turn into scapegoat villain more than likely because the Inhumans can't be the bad guys here, even when they execute a guy who didn't hurt any of them.

    It just shows how Marvel doesn't know what they want to do and never plan ahead, they just make new weak legacy characters and ride on previous events these days. IvX is built on just hella flimsy legs and Marvel's own actions seem to show it by how they're already pushing the ResurreXion after-event. Nothing from Marvel publishing makes it seem like they care anymore about the stories, just momentary hype, and that's a real shame, because the X-Men have been taking the brunt of it for seemingly years now in having no direction. Stepping back it feels very similar to the late 90's runs.

    rlmnc%202_zpsttgnjc6l.jpg
  • Descendant XDescendant X Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Death of X #4, quasi-called it.

    One of the terrigan mist clouds is removed but Alchemy died changing it to be non lethal to mutants.

    And then fake Cyclops walked out to confront Medusa and Black Bolt in the middle of the cloud and Black Bolt kills him. While the other X-Men watch. And they do nothing. It's an absolutely terrible setup and even with as hackneyed as they've tried to make Cyclops a bad guy since AvX, this was a joke, not just in his death, but everyone just going "oh well, he's dead, truce?"

    The twist is, as shown by Havok talking with Emma, Cyclops died in issue #1 with that terrigan mist, but Emma was making everyone think he was still alive, and she might have a part of him in her head and she's basically going crazy at the moment.

    What makes no sense is also how a year ago they kept making a big deal about "what Scott did" and all this tension when I was reading the first few issues of Extraordinary X-Men before just losing complete interest in it. It seemed set up like he killed the Inhumans or changed the mists to hurt them instead during the 8 month gap, but he actually just dissipated one mist cloud, at the expense of himself and Alchemy basically and some Muir Island mutants.

    So in all, Cyclops is dead, Emma is going to turn into scapegoat villain more than likely because the Inhumans can't be the bad guys here, even when they execute a guy who didn't hurt any of them.

    It just shows how Marvel doesn't know what they want to do and never plan ahead, they just make new weak legacy characters and ride on previous events these days. IvX is built on just hella flimsy legs and Marvel's own actions seem to show it by how they're already pushing the ResurreXion after-event. Nothing from Marvel publishing makes it seem like they care anymore about the stories, just momentary hype, and that's a real shame, because the X-Men have been taking the brunt of it for seemingly years now in having no direction. Stepping back it feels very similar to the late 90's runs.

    Death of X is the first comic series I've read in about four years, and I enjoyed it.

    Then you had to go and put it into perspective. Thanks @TexiKen.

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    Wii U: HankFacepunch/Super Mario Maker profile is here! PSN: DescendantX
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    TexiKen
  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    This might be meat for the continuity thread, but does anyone else think Marvel's mutants have...not necessarily run their course, but by and large lost their purpose? It was incredibly innovative, in the 1960s, to have a team of teenage heroes that were outsiders from birth - byproducts of the atomic bomb during an era of Cold War and fears of nuclear annihilation; Chris Claremont reinvigorated them as outcasts, but shifted the focus onto more explicit parallels of discrimination; in the 90s they had the Legacy Virus as their personal HIV/AIDS counterpart... and in pretty much every decade, they've sought to recapture the spirit of the current generation. They actually had a team called Generation X for crying out loud, where the White Queen traded in her BDSM outfit for a lumpy sweater. Before that it was New Mutants. Before that it was the All New X-Men. And then in the 00s and 10s...

    ...and from a purely storybuilding/setting standpoint, mutants were fantastic for generating new characters with superpowers - because anybody could be born a mutant! No hackneyed lab accidents or strange women handing out magic swords or anything like that. It was such a good idea that DC tried to copy it with the whole "metagene" thing, but they never developed a real cultural apparatus around it. "Muties" were different, they could be persecuted, their persecution could be set compared, contrasted, and complicated by other prejudices - like being Jewish (Magneto, Kitty Pride), or gay (Northstar), or losing out on the superpower lottery (Gen X, most of 'em).

    But I'm wondering if the events of M-Day/Decimation - which was intensely stupid - and the subsequent years of "dismantling" a lot of the 90s continuity (no more Prof. X, no more Scott & Jean, weird time-traveling extradimensional kids largely dead/out of the books, etc.) and the lack of a consolidated "enemy" like the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants has really taken a hit to what the X-Men and mutants in general were and how they were handled.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Revenge of Purple Steve Registered User regular
    Honestly, being completely unable to decide if mutants are dying out or not has robbed a lot of their stories longterm sense of identity.

    There's millions of them! Now there's only 200 and no more ever! Now there's lots of them again! Now they're dying out from disease!

    Make up your freaking mind!

    n_zpsb1ejvspv.png
    Dizzy DBobby Derienever dieTexiKenhippofantDouglasDangerchiasaur11vagrant_windsSpoitIncenjucarBobble
  • Linespider5Linespider5 flossing afficionado. Registered User regular
    There might be some new blood in an X-Men book if someone could work the angle of, Hey, these kids seem inevitably getting into dangerous shit that complicates their own lives and the lives of those around them.

    Maybe not the best premise, but it's hard to argue that mutants tend to have the most unhinged day to day lives out anyone walking the Marvel Earth. They just seem destined for problems in a way no one else does.

    9397zn3kdytc.png
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