Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[Marvel] - Introducing Marvel LATER!

1434445464749»

Posts

  • TexiKenTexiKen Very cool. Verycool. Verrikool. Verikul.Registered User regular
    I haven't paid attention to Civil War II since they killed Banner, but the last issue came out this week and from the synopsis it seems really bad in how they tried so hard to make Carol be right. It's a pretty low bar to pass their Hitler Tony from Civil War but they succeeded in not even clearing that.
    So there's a fight between Tony and Carol and Tony's apparently the bad guy because he doesn't want Miles arrested for killing Cap since he didn't even do that yet. But then a vision change by the walking plot device Ulysses to tell everyone to make them stop fighting but they don't and Carol kills Tony which is seen as some big heroic thing and no one seems to call her on it at all, with the idea being that Tony actually trusted Carol all along to be "the chosen one" for lack of a better term because she can be trusted with the minority report powers (but no one else could so that's why he fought so hard against it). It's such a lazy cop out to stop from actually making Carol a villain, because they don't want to run her name through the mud prior to her movie.

    And making Tony tinker with himself so he's not really dead, he's in some healing matrix thing, when should Dan Jurgens expect his royalty check? I mean, Tony's "dead" and you have two Iron Mans out there now, one a former villain and the other a builder, when does Teen Tony return and The Mask In the Iron Man arrive to round out the Reign of the Iron Men?


    It seems to be something made just to capitalize on the name Civil War, with no real coherence, not even a real divide even for just the fisticuff nature of a superhero comic. Death of X was pretty blatant in just having no story planned at all, this really cements why I'm so burned out on Marvel and most comics these days. And next year DC'll probably ruin the Superman books just for fun, too.

    rlmnc%202_zpsttgnjc6l.jpg
    lionheart_mFencingsax
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Yeah...I was really hoping to get back on Marvel this year but nope. Both Death of X and Civil War 2 have made me quit Marvel Comics once more.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
    Fencingsax
  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    You could always read Squirrel Girl and Hellcat. I'm pretty sure neither of them had much if anything to do with either of those storylines.

    sandman-sig.jpg
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Revenge of Purple Steve Registered User regular
    Squirrel Girl has maintained it's level of excellence throughout.

    n_zpsb1ejvspv.png
    Lord Palingtonakajaybay
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    It seems to be something made just to capitalize on the name Civil War,

    Yeah, pretty much.

    There's stuff that matters, and then there's stuff like this or Chaos War or AXIS - events that are 'events', but sort've self-contained and not having much relevant fallout, so you don't care. But seems like there always has to be an 'event' going, so sometimes they're stinkers and don't matter.

    The 'Potential Thor Future' was pretty cool though. I loved that Thor run, I hope we see elements from it come back for real.

    As far as Civil War goes, I think Tony was broadly right last time with some stupid stuff shoe-horned in so there was something legitimately villainous to be angry at him about (Thor clone natch), and this time Carol was broadly right. I'll probably need to re-read the whole thing again to see if there's any serious mis-steps she made.

    kagg_banner.png
  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    I was really enjoying the new Punisher series, to the point where I almost picked up the Dr. Strange crossover. Moon Knight continues to be deliciously weird.

    It's like I still enjoy the characters and the individual series when they stand on their own, but I've really lost interest in the overarching meta-events since they're just such a haphazard collection of fail. Hell, I even miss the glimpses of "secret history" that we used to get in the S.H.I.E.L.D./Secret Avengers/Secret Warriors run of things, and that was what...ten years ago?

    The Unpublishable - Original fiction blog, updates Fridays
    Sex & the Cthulhu Mythos
  • TexiKenTexiKen Very cool. Verycool. Verrikool. Verikul.Registered User regular
    USAvengers #1 was a good read, sort of cleans up what New Avengers was kind of muddied into with the Standoff and Civil War crossovers. AIM is Team America now, Roberto is Citizen V (hope Ewing pulls out the V-Battalion for fun), and the team is nice mix of old and new. Would have been nice to have Songbird on it, and I'm hoping USAgent shows up because how can he not be on this Avengers team, but as is it's still upbeat, a little obnoxious in some of the character pieces about why they're American (strong sense it was rewritten following the election), but it's not being ironic or sarcastic here with the premise and I hope it stays that way. And Paco Medina's always solid and sort of further connects the mutant aspect here since he used to be a mainly X-family artist.

    And a rare thing right now, but kudos to Marvel for actually thinking some of the 50 state variants through. USAgent is from Georgia, so he's on the Georgia cover. Delaware is the first state, so Steve Rogers is on it. Hulk is New Mexico because he's always there.

    rlmnc%202_zpsttgnjc6l.jpg
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    AvX really was the culmination of a lot of long-running x-men storylines, and it's never since felt as though marvel have a good idea of where that franchise is going. I don't necessarily buy all the stuff about them shelving it due to film universe concerns because they've continued to publish 4-5 x-men books concurrently, they just all feel directionless. By the end of the Bendis run on Uncanny he's got the characters literally asking one another "wtf was this book even about?"

    I dunno, it's always seemed to me like there are lots of 'marginalized group' stories they could be telling, but they're either telling them in other vehicles (ANAD Inhumans, Ms. Marvel, etc) or outright aren't interested (ex: mutants as a roma or palestinian type of allegory.)

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    accept your death, and become dangerous
    Spoit
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Considering PAD's reaction, probably good we didn't get a Roma allegory.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • TexiKenTexiKen Very cool. Verycool. Verrikool. Verikul.Registered User regular
    I haven't kept up with IvX at all but if the conflict is
    Because Beast never told the Inhumans, who he was working with, about the terrigan cloud finally disappointing and being everywhere in the atmosphere (killing all the mutants in the process), that is terrible storytelling to justify the fighting. Doubly so when the answer is some magic last minute mcguffin that gets rid of the terrigan mists completely in order to make the Inhumans save face and make the X-Men look like idiots.

    And also Emma is now completely evil crazy wearing Scott's visor like a Magneto helmet and is Black Queen, and brainwashed Forge to make sentinels to kill Inhumans, even though she's got a thing against sentinels because they killed her students (and her).

    Wow that's bad.

    rlmnc%202_zpsttgnjc6l.jpg
  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I haven't kept up with IvX at all but if the conflict is
    Because Beast never told the Inhumans, who he was working with, about the terrigan cloud finally disappointing and being everywhere in the atmosphere (killing all the mutants in the process), that is terrible storytelling to justify the fighting. Doubly so when the answer is some magic last minute mcguffin that gets rid of the terrigan mists completely in order to make the Inhumans save face and make the X-Men look like idiots.

    And also Emma is now completely evil crazy wearing Scott's visor like a Magneto helmet and is Black Queen, and brainwashed Forge to make sentinels to kill Inhumans, even though she's got a thing against sentinels because they killed her students (and her).

    Wow that's bad.

    From what I interpreted, having read the event, you're partially right, and mostly right about the latter. For the former
    Beast goes to the X-Men first before he tells Medusa because he overhears a conversation Medusa is having of whether it ever came down to choosing to create Inhumans or the mutants, she would choose the Inhumans. He goes to Storm specifically then to let her know what is going on, and then Emma pushes hardcore for a surprise attack and destruction of the terrigen mists, and uses the death of Cyclops at Black Bolt's hand as justification. She manages to persuade them to attack the Inhumans instead of talk to them.

    For the fixing of the terrigen mist, that is actually built up as something Forge had been working on, and the one that finally works is actually a brainchild of both Forge and Moon Girl, which I thought was a nice work together story.

    but yeah the rest of the Emma stuff was just...ugh

    I think this is the most important thing that people forget about US government. Moses didn't come down Mt Rushmore with the Bill of Rights on a tablet from God.
  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    So! Monsters. That's a thing. I think about every ten years or so Marvel remembers it used to do monster comics and hauls them out of the archives for a dusting-off and to keep the copyrights fresh or something. Possibly spurred on by the ongoing success of Groot. I kinda want to do a retrospective on the old Marvel Monsterworks.

    The Unpublishable - Original fiction blog, updates Fridays
    Sex & the Cthulhu Mythos
    Ringo
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Monsters are a thing. 'Unleashed' is actually a fun little series, and a good excuse to do the afore-mentioned dusting on all manner of wild and weird classic beasties.

    kagg_banner.png
  • mrmrmrmr Registered User regular
    Monsters Unleashed had a better first issue than the whole of Civil War II.

    Surprising probably nobody.

    Practice Round, my blog where I talk (mostly) about comics.
    p4.png
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    So this last weekend Marvel held a retailer summit, the first one since back before they went bankrupt, in order to talk directly with retailers about their complaints.

    1500x1500_0b131ad9a2ba25b50a6d29a07eb8754f7947c0877c85aea2090fd171.jpg

    http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/37118/marvel-retailer-summit
    Among the editorial topics discussed were reboots and restarts, event fatigue, timing of events, political overtones in comics, and legacy vs. new versions of characters, all subjects we’ve been hearing a lot about from retailers over the past months.

    Marketing staff participated in all the discussions, and made presentations on current and upcoming marketing plans.

    Response from the retailers in attendance was generally positive, both because Marvel was making an effort to communicate and gather input, but also because of the content of the presentations, which were seen as promising signs of better sales ahead after a tough start to the year.

    Over the next few days, we’ll be reporting in depth on the discussions and presentations that took place at the Marvel Retailer Summit. Both the event and the plans discussed represent major shifts in strategy for Marvel, and we laud their transparency in inviting us to attend and report on them.

    I'm definitely curious to hear more about this.

    TexiKen
  • TexiKenTexiKen Very cool. Verycool. Verrikool. Verikul.Registered User regular
    Good. DC listened and have something worthwhile with Rebirth (and recent Superman stories show exactly what they needed to do to fix things moving forward). They still have some duds in Suicide Squad and Justice League, but there's a groundwork there and it seems like, at least with the main books, they are giving creators time to build their stories.

    When I saw something a few months back from a diamond retail summit about how Marvel blamed their poor sales on DC making their comics returnable I thought they were in full on denial but if they're actually listening and won't just Brevoort the whole thing with passive aggressiveness or twitter snark, maybe the big two are finally back on track and can get me back into the medium. Because it's not just bad ideas like everything that's happened with the X-Men, or shitty events like Civil War II or bad reveals like Unworthy Thor. Those are sadly commonplace and you just try and hope things get better. It's things like America #1 being just really bad fanfic in both writing and art (and the art has been bad across much of the entire line like in Thunderbolts), and it's spreading to almost every comic. Mark Waid, what happened bro, you used to be so good, is it the twitter that's ruined you, fam?

    rlmnc%202_zpsttgnjc6l.jpg
    Sinogue
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Revenge of Purple Steve Registered User regular
    Hopfully they don't throw out the good with the bad, but it's a very good thing they realize they need some feedback.

    n_zpsb1ejvspv.png
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    You're entitled to your opinion and all, but how dare you call Joe Quinones art "really bad fanfic"??

  • TexiKenTexiKen Very cool. Verycool. Verrikool. Verikul.Registered User regular
    edited March 31
    Day One, Part One of that Marvel retailer summit

    Day One, Part Two

    Reading them both, it feels very standard, nothing that comes across like when DC figuratively got on its knees to beg forgiveness last year. And you don't need that level of contrition, but Gabriel comes across as just going "what do you want me to do?" and Alosno is trying to be middle of the road anecdotal stories and generalities about talent on books and so forth. Gabriel's not really saying anything beyond standard company talk about how they have yuge, terrific, phenomenal sales that carry titles for 18 months or so and that things were great until October, and then justifying multiple titles for one character by saying they sell well in TPB format, such as Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe. Nothing really different from normal padded CBR level talks where it's less honest talk and more retailers say one thing, publisher says another and says "we're open to ideas."

    The issue of TPB pricing is brought up and how the Jenkins/Lee Inhumans TPB is 35 bucks compared to Batman Long Halloween at 25 bucks with more pages. Gabriel says essentially they can't lower the price because then people wait for the trade. Fine. Do that for newer stuff. But Inhumans is 15 years old. Lower the price to make it an evergreen AND a spring into the new books/show. This is just such a deliberate misdirection I can't believe someone didn't call him on it.

    Maybe in the coming days the more that's revealed will get better traction than boilerplate political speak. The only thing of note seems to be they don't have an event planned for the next 18 months following Secret Empire, which, let's see how that works.


    And here is an ICV2 interview with Gabriel about 2016 where he comes across as accusing readers for not liking diversity or new characters so the readers are forcing Marvel's hand in going back to the old characters, and it just comes across as dismissive and accusatory despite how he talked about the years prior to it being good. Which means by that logic they did like diversity. So maybe there is something to people getting turned off by certain creators and stories, a little introspection helps.

    Books hyped up like Champions, collapsing to from 300k sales to 31k sales by issue #5 shows that it's not so much the characters but the quality of the books on top of way too many books in general about characters no one really wants to read (USAvengers has a better story but was also propped up artificially with the 50 state covers for #1 and is now under 20k by issue #3). Miles and Ms. Marvel and Spider-Gwen sell because they have good stories or are connecting in some way to readers but not enough to carry team books that aren't the flagship Avengers. No one bought that new Inhuman book of the guy who I can't remember as I write this (looked it up, Mosaic) or Mockingbird, and they also didn't buy Solo or Hyperion or Slapstick or Red Wolf or A-Force.

    There is a real problem with sales right now, as you can get into the top 10 by selling just 65k now. Blaming readers for your failings isn't going to help things.

    TexiKen on
    rlmnc%202_zpsttgnjc6l.jpg
    Bobby DerieZiggymon
  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    I honestly don't know what Marvel's problem is, exactly - probably because I'm part of the problem. I rarely buy their stuff nowadays. The "big events" like Civil War II have been so poorly conceived, plotted, and executed that I had no interest in them, and they tend to spill over to most of the indie books. I think the last two titles I picked up were Karnak (because Warren Ellis was writing it), Moon Knight (because James Stokoe was drawing part of it), and Punisher.

    Part of it is also...who was the market for a Slapstick book? Slapstick was a one-note character when he came out back in the 90s, and hasn't had a huge amount of play since then, aside from a particularly dark turn during the whole 50 States Initiative thing, if I recall correctly.

    The Unpublishable - Original fiction blog, updates Fridays
    Sex & the Cthulhu Mythos
  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    Not buying something because you aren't interested in it isn't a problem , it's your right as a consumer. If they can't interest you in reading any of the books THATS the problem. Was actually going to renew my unlimited subscription to catch up on the last 2 years I've been away from comics but was told by friends that there wasn't anything I would like.

    Ziggymon
  • ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    edited April 5
    Hi everyone. Been lurking the thread for a few pages and just started with the comic book reading habit.

    I went with the Thunderbolts. Had heard of them and the underdog/redemption angle appeals to me. Love them so far.

    John Walker appears in a few issues. Looked him up and this nice read showed up on google: http://shawnsjames.blogspot.com/2014/12/john-walkerthe-crazed-captain-america.html

    I think TexiKen will like it.

    Archsorcerer on
    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
    TexiKen
  • ZiggymonZiggymon Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Day One, Part One of that Marvel retailer summit

    Day One, Part Two

    Reading them both, it feels very standard, nothing that comes across like when DC figuratively got on its knees to beg forgiveness last year. And you don't need that level of contrition, but Gabriel comes across as just going "what do you want me to do?" and Alosno is trying to be middle of the road anecdotal stories and generalities about talent on books and so forth. Gabriel's not really saying anything beyond standard company talk about how they have yuge, terrific, phenomenal sales that carry titles for 18 months or so and that things were great until October, and then justifying multiple titles for one character by saying they sell well in TPB format, such as Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe. Nothing really different from normal padded CBR level talks where it's less honest talk and more retailers say one thing, publisher says another and says "we're open to ideas."

    The issue of TPB pricing is brought up and how the Jenkins/Lee Inhumans TPB is 35 bucks compared to Batman Long Halloween at 25 bucks with more pages. Gabriel says essentially they can't lower the price because then people wait for the trade. Fine. Do that for newer stuff. But Inhumans is 15 years old. Lower the price to make it an evergreen AND a spring into the new books/show. This is just such a deliberate misdirection I can't believe someone didn't call him on it.

    Maybe in the coming days the more that's revealed will get better traction than boilerplate political speak. The only thing of note seems to be they don't have an event planned for the next 18 months following Secret Empire, which, let's see how that works.


    And here is an ICV2 interview with Gabriel about 2016 where he comes across as accusing readers for not liking diversity or new characters so the readers are forcing Marvel's hand in going back to the old characters, and it just comes across as dismissive and accusatory despite how he talked about the years prior to it being good. Which means by that logic they did like diversity. So maybe there is something to people getting turned off by certain creators and stories, a little introspection helps.

    Books hyped up like Champions, collapsing to from 300k sales to 31k sales by issue #5 shows that it's not so much the characters but the quality of the books on top of way too many books in general about characters no one really wants to read (USAvengers has a better story but was also propped up artificially with the 50 state covers for #1 and is now under 20k by issue #3). Miles and Ms. Marvel and Spider-Gwen sell because they have good stories or are connecting in some way to readers but not enough to carry team books that aren't the flagship Avengers. No one bought that new Inhuman book of the guy who I can't remember as I write this (looked it up, Mosaic) or Mockingbird, and they also didn't buy Solo or Hyperion or Slapstick or Red Wolf or A-Force.

    There is a real problem with sales right now, as you can get into the top 10 by selling just 65k now. Blaming readers for your failings isn't going to help things.

    Lets See:


    Increasing prices combined with Introducing over 100 different monthly comics driving a lot of people away towards TPB
    Increase in TBP prices against rivals for no real reason
    Driving out good writers/ artists.
    Comments about artists not being their worth.
    Events that make no sense and completely change characters motives and actions.
    Multiple crossover events going on at the same time.
    Introducing fantastic replacement characters for legacy characters with no real foundation or development prior for the new character making what should have been great legacy progression feel hollow.
    Having the great established new characters being put into too many comics to prop up sales.
    Retcon and No.1 issues popping up every few months to try and create artificial inflation.

    But go on Gabriel, blame the readers. I'm sure DC are looking back to themselves thinking "Can't believe we were this stupid!"


    I have REZ for the Dreamcast PAL for sale £35. Other Excellent retro games for sale PM for details
  • motorfireboxmotorfirebox Registered User regular
    Is anybody else really disappointed with the America book? I gave it two issues, I don't think I'm going to give it anymore. It seems more interested in fulfilling SJW checkboxes than in telling a coherent story. I mean, I'm a self-described SJW, okay? I'm the guy who's always yelling about POC representation and trans rights and everything. And this book is just too much for me, because there's nothing there but the SJW stuff. The first issue was this uninterrupted max-volume blare of new characters and locations and situations whose sole purpose seems to be to advertise how open and accepting America is.

    What characterization there is of America herself, I'm not a fan of either. She's always been portrayed as a relatively internal, laconic character. In these two issues, she's yapping constantly. And yeah, she's the main character so she's gonna be talking more than when she's a supporting character, but very little of what she says seems necessary.

    I'm all for openness and acceptance in comics, but they should be comics first; otherwise, what's the point of having a comic at all? If I wanted dry, straightforward lessons on how to be more open and accepting, I'd read a pamphlet.

  • ZiggymonZiggymon Registered User regular
    Is anybody else really disappointed with the America book? I gave it two issues, I don't think I'm going to give it anymore. It seems more interested in fulfilling SJW checkboxes than in telling a coherent story. I mean, I'm a self-described SJW, okay? I'm the guy who's always yelling about POC representation and trans rights and everything. And this book is just too much for me, because there's nothing there but the SJW stuff. The first issue was this uninterrupted max-volume blare of new characters and locations and situations whose sole purpose seems to be to advertise how open and accepting America is.

    What characterization there is of America herself, I'm not a fan of either. She's always been portrayed as a relatively internal, laconic character. In these two issues, she's yapping constantly. And yeah, she's the main character so she's gonna be talking more than when she's a supporting character, but very little of what she says seems necessary.

    I'm all for openness and acceptance in comics, but they should be comics first; otherwise, what's the point of having a comic at all? If I wanted dry, straightforward lessons on how to be more open and accepting, I'd read a pamphlet.

    For me, I feel that the book made the classic mistake of spending all it's time trying to tell the reader how amazing this character is, without showing the reader her actions to draw their own conclusions. If you look at something like Ms. Marvel you are shown the struggles and triumphs but rarely told how amazing she is as a character because the reader can make this conclusion on their own.

    I have REZ for the Dreamcast PAL for sale £35. Other Excellent retro games for sale PM for details
    motorfirebox
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Hillary had it in his veins Registered User regular
    Spoiler for the coming FCBD comic
    A shocking swerve that also seems not so shocking?


    I don't really have much to say.

    150,000 people die every day.
Sign In or Register to comment.