Options

[Superhero Movies] Who IS this mysterious masked man?

12467100

Posts

  • Options
    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    I think it would be cool if they pushed that angle a little harder

    But at the same time, the pushing of "we are a family, even if we don't look like one and its hard to act like one" is a solid thing to build a franchise around and dammit if a good "I love you my sons" from splinter doesn't get me literally every time

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
  • Options
    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    I just feel like their particular flavor of Father/son tension is wrapped up in the fact that he's all about hiding them and rooted in this Far East Tradition and is basically Japanese dad.

    and they're all like "fuck that, America, woooo"

    And I'm like "dude, that's the immigrant experience".

    Which is basically just a different flavor of the son/father dynamic that's already there.


    but it's a really good one

  • Options
    AtomicTofuAtomicTofu She's a straight-up supervillain, yo Registered User regular
    Gillen and McKelvie are rad and the store even had the Bryan Lee O'Malley variant in stock, so I am a happy camper.

  • Options
    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    Don't like how the shredder looks

    Don't like that splinter is a white dude

    Like literally everything else in that trailer

    Lebanese counts as white now?

  • Options
    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    Don't like how the shredder looks

    Don't like that splinter is a white dude

    Like literally everything else in that trailer

    Lebanese counts as white now?

    I didn't know Tony Shaloub was Lebanese

    To be fair he was born and raised here and if you want your cgi rat-man to come across as japanese you probably need someone with a japanese accent

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
  • Options
    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    Splinter always sounded like a hoarse white guy to me

    2x39jD4.jpg
  • Options
    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    Splinter always sounded like a hoarse white guy to me

    He hasn't for quite some time

    If you want a mind-fuck though, 1990 film splinter is Elmo

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
  • Options
    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    GOD DAMMIT SPLINTER IN THE FIRST MOVIE IS SO GOOD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNkiDVRIdZI

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
  • Options
    FAQFAQ Registered User regular
    shredder coming from the more is more school of design

  • Options
    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    This is 2007 Splinter for reference

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwWZiMjsttg

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
  • Options
    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    jhTDNxA.jpg

    CYpGAPn.png
  • Options
    CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    Get your popcorn, folks. Let's see what John Byrne thinks about Michael B. Jordan being Johnny Storm.
    The other night, on his “news” show, John Oliver made a passing (and snarky) comment about people who get upset when non-White actors are cast as FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, (emphasis his)

    This earned an epic eye roll from me, of course, and sent my tired old brain rumbling down pathways that are, by now, all too familiar.

    This time, tho, I found myself landing in a spot I had not visited before. Of course I object to race-swapping in movies (which is something very different from “colorblind casting”), and I wondered how far Oliver would be comfortable going with his contempt for those who share my views. If, for instance, there was a remake of GONE WITH THE WIND, would it be perfectly acceptable to cast Will Smith as Rhett Butler?

    Hollywood had noticed that the steady spread of VCRs and home entertainment systems, not to mention cable movie channels, meant more and more affluent White people were staying home to watch movies. More and more movie theaters were becoming the province of the less affluent, which Hollywood read as minorities, especially Black people.

    So, once again something positive — a greater presence of minorities in movies — sprang from the Box Office, not any sort of desire by Hollywood to “do the right thing.”

    It is currently a fad in Hollywood — bordering on a fetish, it sometimes seems — to swap out White characters for other races and ethnicities. And I am frankly amazed that the Black community is not outraged by this patronizing modern version of blackface. Where are the roles created FOR Black actors? Why should Will Smith, Samuel L. Jackson, Halle Berry, etc, have to settle for table scraps?

    This is, of course, a completely racist attitude. Or would it be okay to change a Black character into a White one, or an Asian one, or a Native American one, if the author who created the character was himself Black, and therefore using a “default” setting?

    I’ve attended several local theater productions with race-swapping in the cast. A few years back, Shakespeare on the Sound did a week of OTHELLO, with a Black actor, naturally, in the lead, but also with a Black actor as Cassio. While this added an interesting layer to Othello’s paranoia (does Desdemona just have a thing for Black guys?), it also took away the “stranger in a strange land” aspect of Othello’s character. Instead of being THE Moor of Venice, he became but one of an unspecified number of Black people in the city.

    A while later, I saw a small theater groups’ production of ARSENIC AND OLD LACE, with a Black actor in the role of Jonathan Brewster. Now, aside from the problems this creates with the rest of his blood relatives being White, the character is described in the play, several times, as looking like Boris Karloff. At the very least, a bit of judicious script editing might have been applied?

    This is, of course, why I maintain “colorblind casting” and “race swapping” are two different things. “Colorblind casting” applies when the race of the character is not known. James Earl Jones in THE HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER, for instance. “Race swapping” is when one known race is swapped out for another.

    And from where I stand, race swapping is like treating a gangrenous leg by cutting off a toe. If there is a lack of roles, especially good roles, for “minority” players — and there most certainly IS! — then FIX THAT. Don’t put a bandaid on it.

    When it comes to casting a Black actor as Johnny Storm, there is a degree of historical ignorance at work that is insulting to Stan Lee and the memory of Jack Kirby.

    Lee and Kirby, both New York Jews, did not “cast” the Fantastic Four as extensions of themselves. It took fifty years for a writer (and I wish it had been me!) to identify Ben Grimm as Jewish. But what Stan and Jack did when shaping the early Marvel Universe was demonstrate a social conscience in the best ways the Nation at the time would tolerate. And let us not forget, it was Stan and Jack who desegregated the American Armed Forces almost a decade before it happened in real life.

    Lee, Kirby, Ditko and the rest introduced ethnic and racial minorities with a far greater frequency than, say, DC. Wyatt Wingfoot became a regular member of the FF’s supporting cast. Robbie Robertson showed up in Spider-Man. The Black Panther arrived. Heroic non-White figures arose from the ranks of the common man. Remember Al B. Harper, who died to save the world?

    When Johnny is race-swapped the inevitable response from some segments of fandom and the media is that this is “necessary” due to comics in the 1960s being hotbeds of White supremacy — while nothing is further from the truth. American comics had long been the home to some of the most liberal, forward thinking people you were likely to meet. They cannot be taken to task for portraying society as that society perceived itself. But they should definitely be lauded for being, often, ahead of the curve when it came to social reform.

    Acting, actors will often tell us when at their most pretentious, is about TRUTH. There is no TRUTH in casting actors from races other than that of the character, and then pretending nothing else has changed.
    White guys don’t think they’re being racist when they turn a White character Black, or Asian, or anything other than White, but they are. What many fail to understand is that distinguishing an individual (fictional or otherwise) purely on the basis of race is racist.Looking at a cast of characters and asking “Which one can we make Black?” turns being Black into nothing more than skin color. There is no consideration of the very different experiences Black people have in this country, and, indeed, in the World.If we took a story written by a Black African, set in Africa, about Africans, and arbitrarily turned one of the characters White, there would be (justifiable) outrage. The valid point would be made that we cannot simply “whitewash” a Black character and end up with the same person, the same dynamic, the same presence in the story.How is it any different to take a White character and paint him/her Black? Nick Fury, to cite but one example, had to turn into a different character when he was painted Black. Why not MAKE him a different character? Give him is own identity, instead of one handed down from on high by White folk? Make him Gabe Jones, or Gabe Jones Jr, or Gabe Jones III, if you want to tie into existing continuity. As the “Everything That’s Wrong With…” site so aptly points out, Fury in the Marvel Movies has no depth at all. He is defined entirely by the eyepatch.And Samuel L. Jackson is okay with this?(As I have said before, I do not understand why Mr. Jackson did not sue Marvel when they used his likeness, without permission, as the “Ultimate” Nick Fury. His likeness is his brand. Does he feel no need to protect it? Can I make him a character in one of my STAR TREK photonovels and expect no letters from his lawyers? And if I got such a letter, could I not point to the Fury character, and his subsequent endorsement of it, and say “That ship has sailed!”)

    The sad fact is that civilians automatically perceive the movies as BETTER than the comics — usually without any knowledge of the comics. Recall the reviewers who praised Tim Burton’s “vision” for Batman, apparently unaware that he was doing what Denny O’Neil, Neal Adams, Frank Miller and a host of others had been doing in the comics for decades. As far as the reviewers were concerned, Batman was Adam West.Comics are viewed with disdain, and comic FANS are viewed with disdain. (And given the kind of public representation we get, this is no small wonder.) Thus, if a fan speaks out against the excesses of Hollywood, said fan is immediately identifying himself as a feeble minded loser.But what’s worse is when so-called fans themselves take this position, drinking the Hollywood Kool-Aid and making excuses for the transgressions. Magpies, I call them. As long as what’s up on the screen is bright and shiny, anything is acceptable. (Oh, and if you can arrange for Wolverine to say “fuck,” then you are a GENIUS!!)

    When a property is fifty years old — take the X-Men, for instance — it is understandable that a moviemaker would want to confabulate as much as possible, rather than starting on the first page of the first issue. After all — X-Men again — most of the characters in that first issue would be unrecognizable to a modern comic fan audience.

    Of course, this is where the weird part comes in. Hollywood will tell us that if every comic fan in America boycotted their latest effort, it would have almost zero effect on the Box Office — and yet they pander to those fans. But they do it in a halfassed way. So they’ll throw in some “clever” reference that will get the fanboys swooning, while demolishing acres of property next door. “Hey, look! Juggernaut said ‘Im the Juggernaut, bitch!’ That’s so cool? What? They got Kitty’s powers wrong and the actor doesn’t really look like Juggernaut (or Kitty)? So what! He said ‘Im the Juggernaut, bitch!’”

    And civilians, of course, care not.

    Many changes that Hollywood makes are just out of laziness. It’s easier to do it one way, rather than another. Race-swapping falls into this category. Rather than spending some time and effort on creating new Black characters — you know, actually respecting the history and heritage of the Black actors who will play them — just get out the shoe polish and go all Al Jolson on an existing character.

    It was racist when Jolson did it.* It’s still racist. Only now, that racism has been repackaged in a way that makes some people think something POSITIVE is happening.

    It isn’t.

    * From time to time I have wondered how Jolson, who was born Asa Yoelson, would have reacted to a song-and-dance man who sported a huge beaked nose and a yarmulke. Would that horrifying cliché have been as “okay” as his own blackface routines?

    Sometimes it doesn’t even take race or gender swapping to create such a schism. Consider Storm, as we met her in GIANT-SIZED X-MEN 1:

    2014-06-13_060754_Storm

    Mysterious, ancient, unworldly. . . but within a very short time she was born in Harlem and grew up with the first part of Modesty Blaise’s origin. A completely different character (and tied to a specific bit of world history, the Suez crisis, that makes her my age!!).

    Coulson was not only a new character, but a White one. Since he is effectively the face of SHIELD, why not make him Black?

    Here's the thread for context Byrne posted in for context. http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47023&PN=0&TPN=1

    Do not have a cow, mortal.

    c9PXgFo.jpg
  • Options
    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    all I know is that I am not giving any money to that whitewashed piece of shit movie if I can help it

  • Options
    wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Any good point Byrne makes is negated by him being a general piece of garbage.

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • Options
    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    all I know is that I am not giving any money to that whitewashed piece of shit movie if I can help it

    If it helps I'll probably end up seeing it 2 or 3 times

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
  • Options
    StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    What the hell, John Byrne?

    Just...what the hell?

    IKknkhU.gif
  • Options
    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2014
    I'll probably watch it on DVD because I have very little investment in tmnt

    edit unless I hear it's good I guess

    chincy will be my canary in the tmnt coalmine

    Kwoaru on
    2x39jD4.jpg
  • Options
    wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    all I know is that I am not giving any money to that whitewashed piece of shit movie if I can help it

    If it helps I'll probably end up seeing it 2 or 3 times

    I'll be seeing it if I hear it's a good film.

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • Options
    FCDFCD Registered User regular
    Stilts wrote: »
    What the hell, John Byrne?

    Just...what the hell?

    I keep trying to read what he wrote, but every time all I can think of is Grandpa Simpson yelling at a cloud.

    Gridman! Baby DAN DAN! Baby DAN DAN!
  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I said this in the other thread, but what's wrong with casting Will Smith as Rhett Butler? Why should this make me go "Oh, I guess you're right; casting Jordon as Storm is a bad idea" after hearing it?

  • Options
    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    That's a whole lot of borderline racist bullshit, with a few good points that were stated better by David Brothers when talking about the idea of a black James Bond.
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    I check out any time someone drops the false equivalency of "what if they cast a white actor to play a black character?"

    It's a lazy shitty argument that demonstrates a complete lack of understanding.

  • Options
    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    I said this in the other thread, but what's wrong with casting Will Smith as Rhett Butler? Why should this make me go "Oh, I guess you're right; casting Jordon as Storm is a bad idea" after hearing it?

    You wouldn't because the two things are not at all synonymous

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
  • Options
    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I said this in the other thread, but what's wrong with casting Will Smith as Rhett Butler? Why should this make me go "Oh, I guess you're right; casting Jordon as Storm is a bad idea" after hearing it?

    Well for one thing those two castings have nothing to do with each other, but the problem with casting Will Smith as Butler specifically is that a Black Dude is not going to be part of the Southern Gentry. Also, you would have to take into account the context of the film itself being made, and when the woman who wins Best Supporting Actress is not allowed to attend the Oscars, you have a lot of delicate work to do.

  • Options
    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    What even got said

  • Options
    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    Oh my god I loved Original Sin #4 so much.

    Nightcrawler continues to just be echos of fun Excalibur books and I like it a lot. I may pick up other X-Men titles to see where it fits in because the end of Nightcrawler #3 seems to be pretty damn important.

    About to start Original Sins #1 now...

    PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
  • Options
    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    edited June 2014
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvNMYqWZ4BM&feature=kp

    I do think you can be smarter or dumber about your casting when it comes to... well, skin color, really, but mostly I'm just interested to see how these actors interpret their roles.

    Edit: Like, in theory I really have no problem with Will Smith playing Rhett Butler, but if you're going for a sort of "photo realism" in your film, then it would clash with the tone you're shooting for. And I think Hollywood generally goes for a sort of veneer photo-realism most of the time. When they don't, it gives the whole film a very sort of "artsy" vibe, like in most of Kenneth Branagh's Shakespeare adaptations.

    sarukun on
  • Options
    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    I said this in the other thread, but what's wrong with casting Will Smith as Rhett Butler? Why should this make me go "Oh, I guess you're right; casting Jordon as Storm is a bad idea" after hearing it?

    Well, specifically for Rhett Butler, it would be kind of hard to tell a Civil War story if you ignore the racial component.

    Johnny Storm has no ties to a monstrously racist time period though

  • Options
    GuekGuek Registered User regular

    When I'm old and grey and just downright crotchety, I think one of the stories my grandkids are going to hear most often is going to be about this movie and how it was just flabbergasting that it was ever made.

  • Options
    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    I said this in the other thread, but what's wrong with casting Will Smith as Rhett Butler? Why should this make me go "Oh, I guess you're right; casting Jordon as Storm is a bad idea" after hearing it?

    Well, specifically for Rhett Butler, it would be kind of hard to tell a Civil War story if you ignore the racial component.

    Johnny Storm has no ties to a monstrously racist time period though

    Yeah, like, I don't really think it would be hard.

    I think it would just set a very different artistic tone than "THIS IS THE STORY OF SOME SHIT THAT HAPPENED IN THE SOUTH AND WE ARE SEEING IT AS IT HAPPENED IS YOUR DISBELIEF SUSPENDED YET OKAY COOL HERE WE GO".

    It asks a little extra step of the audience.

    And for some people that's apparently crazy town.

  • Options
    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Yeah, like he almost comes close to a good point where he separates "colorblind" casting except he then fails to realize that just knowing their race is not really a factor unless it ties into the story or character in some way.

    And then takes the incredibly cynical stance that this casting only happened because they wanted to make Johnny a minority character, and not because this was the best casting call given that his race is not a meaningful aspect of Johnny's character or the story dynamic of FF.

  • Options
    EtchwartsEtchwarts Eyes Up Registered User regular
    He did get one thing right

    Some more original characters who aren't white guys would be grand

  • Options
    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    Hey guys.

    Original Sins #1 should have been a free preview issue and is very bad.

    Like, really really bad.

    I have no idea what #2, or 3-5 for that matter, will even do.

    I am sad I spent money on it.

    PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
  • Options
    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    johnny is a token though

    PNk1Ml4.png
  • Options
    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    johnny is a token though

    should they just make them all black

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
  • Options
    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    A black Reed Richards who channels Neil deGrasse Tyson?

    I'd watch it.

  • Options
    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    danny pudi as reed richards
    rosario dawson as susan storm
    michael b jordan as johnny storm
    dwayne johnson as ben grimm
    javier bardem as victor von doom

    PNk1Ml4.png
  • Options
    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    mxmarks wrote: »
    Hey guys.

    Original Sins #1 should have been a free preview issue and is very bad.

    Like, really really bad.

    I have no idea what #2, or 3-5 for that matter, will even do.

    I am sad I spent money on it.

    did you maybe confuse the companion anthology series "Original Sins" with the event series "Original Sin"

  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Oh god damn it. I was thinking Casablanca for some reason; not Gone with the Wind. I am a grade A moron.

  • Options
    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited June 2014
    sarukun wrote: »
    I said this in the other thread, but what's wrong with casting Will Smith as Rhett Butler? Why should this make me go "Oh, I guess you're right; casting Jordon as Storm is a bad idea" after hearing it?

    Well, specifically for Rhett Butler, it would be kind of hard to tell a Civil War story if you ignore the racial component.

    Johnny Storm has no ties to a monstrously racist time period though

    Yeah, like, I don't really think it would be hard.

    I think it would just set a very different artistic tone than "THIS IS THE STORY OF SOME SHIT THAT HAPPENED IN THE SOUTH AND WE ARE SEEING IT AS IT HAPPENED IS YOUR DISBELIEF SUSPENDED YET OKAY COOL HERE WE GO".

    It asks a little extra step of the audience.

    And for some people that's apparently crazy town.

    Gone with the wind is historical fiction, yeah it's crazy town

    Like you realize he goes off to fight for the confederacy right

    Not to mention the implication of miscegenation laws

    Langly on
This discussion has been closed.