I got nostalgic for my old training mech, my Hunchback 4SP. Almost 93kph, 4 ML and 2 SRM6+Artemis. It was a mediocre match with a mediocre performance from me. But I made 100k. Anybody can do it!
Then I had a pretty good match in my brand new Firebrand while apparently on twitch.tv. I wonder if there is a way to find that video, I think I put a pair of AC10 rounds into the streamer's face and killed him. And then got chewed up by a Timberwolf and almost died at the very end.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I love LRM's, but I don't like to boat them. All my TBR's have LRM's, but they are my BVR/support weapon, not my primary fire (right now I'm favoring 2 ERLL and 3 ERML as my primary armament on my prime).
@italianranma If you make the same SummonerB that I have and we team up it'll be awesome. 48 SRMS and 4 MGs chewing through the Internal nougat while we have 4 AMS's covering us.
Actually, @Nips , while I'm thinking about it, I really want to do some AMS tests. I want to see how two mechs side by side fare against a volley, and then I want to see how they fare if the target of the missiles steps backwards while the teammate steps forward, and then how they fare if both mechs back up.
Also the news about joystick enhancements* makes me very, very happy. I like PGI's mouse control- de-syncing the arms and torso was great, and arm-lock a silly idea- but MW games feel like stick games to me, and MWO's implementation doesn't cut it right now.
*this quote:
and to enable absolute inputs for Joystick users
is really, really important for stick use.
Wait, wait, wait. What news?
Sorry, was a bit sleep deprived when I wrote that post.
The quote is from the first update about the next patch. They are adding absolute control for joysticks, which means stick control should play more like previous MW games and less like trying to aina mouse pointer with a stick
Also the news about joystick enhancements* makes me very, very happy. I like PGI's mouse control- de-syncing the arms and torso was great, and arm-lock a silly idea- but MW games feel like stick games to me, and MWO's implementation doesn't cut it right now.
*this quote:
and to enable absolute inputs for Joystick users
is really, really important for stick use.
Wait, wait, wait. What news?
Sorry, was a bit sleep deprived when I wrote that post.
The quote is from the first update about the next patch. They are adding absolute control for joysticks, which means stick control should play more like previous MW games and less like trying to aina mouse pointer with a stick
Wait... You want to aim with a stick?
I'm using a joystick because analog throttle and turning are way too useful, but mouse aiming is far too good to pass up.
Also the news about joystick enhancements* makes me very, very happy. I like PGI's mouse control- de-syncing the arms and torso was great, and arm-lock a silly idea- but MW games feel like stick games to me, and MWO's implementation doesn't cut it right now.
*this quote:
and to enable absolute inputs for Joystick users
is really, really important for stick use.
Wait, wait, wait. What news?
Sorry, was a bit sleep deprived when I wrote that post.
The quote is from the first update about the next patch. They are adding absolute control for joysticks, which means stick control should play more like previous MW games and less like trying to aina mouse pointer with a stick
Wait... You want to aim with a stick?
I'm using a joystick because analog throttle and turning are way too useful, but mouse aiming is far too good to pass up.
It feels better. :P And the reason mouse aiming is superior in MWO right now is because of the way the inputs work.
Ran a 3 AMS/ECM/2ERLL Kit Fox...I think this build is sticking around. I spent most of the round hanging around the team and taking pot-shots; the other team concentrated on the more dangerous targets, leaving me free to blast away. Finished with 500 damage, 1 kill, 8 assists and 160k cbills.
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I had to log off last night after like three games. Had the dumbest teammates. Lost the first game because half my team decided to leave the heavy artillery mechs (which included me) alone on a hill while they chased a kitfox 1km away.
Then twice in a row I died early in the game because a teammate would walk their mech right up behind me and just stand there, stopping me from maneuvering.
Then I had a pretty good match in my brand new Firebrand while apparently on twitch.tv. I wonder if there is a way to find that video, I think I put a pair of AC10 rounds into the streamer's face and killed him. And then got chewed up by a Timberwolf and almost died at the very end.
Speaking as the self-appointed Pope of the Holy Church of Dakka, you're doing the Lord's work.
So are the regular Firestarters as good as they look on paper or am I setting myself up for disappointment because god damn, that's a lot of pew pew.
Speaking of Dakka, you can fit a UAC/20 on an Adder.
..this has to be done.
I about crapped my pants when i ran into an Adder with 2 LRM20s.
... A UAC 20 Adder sounda delicious .
Amusingly enough that's a stock build.
First run with the UAC/20 Adder ending in spectacular failure. Classic "went to flank, ran into entire enemy team instead" moment, and the UAC jammed.
The second game went a lot better. Conquest, a Firestarter and I double-teamed a dual-Gauss Firebrand and took him out, then doubled back and ripped open a few more mechs. We still lost in the end, but it was a good run.
The number of light pilots I'm seeing who stop moving is distressing.
Also the news about joystick enhancements* makes me very, very happy. I like PGI's mouse control- de-syncing the arms and torso was great, and arm-lock a silly idea- but MW games feel like stick games to me, and MWO's implementation doesn't cut it right now.
*this quote:
and to enable absolute inputs for Joystick users
is really, really important for stick use.
Wait, wait, wait. What news?
Sorry, was a bit sleep deprived when I wrote that post.
The quote is from the first update about the next patch. They are adding absolute control for joysticks, which means stick control should play more like previous MW games and less like trying to aina mouse pointer with a stick
Wait... You want to aim with a stick?
I'm using a joystick because analog throttle and turning are way too useful, but mouse aiming is far too good to pass up.
It feels better. :P And the reason mouse aiming is superior in MWO right now is because of the way the inputs work
I'm with you on the feels ;-) but I don't see joystick aim being even close to comparable to mouse aim, even with absolute inputs. Keep in mind joysticks only tend to have 8bit analog input, i.e. 256 steps per axis. That is awfully imprecise for the 180°+ torso twist most mechs have. Absolute input will definitely take it from being loljoystickaim to something at least workable, but I can't see it being competitive with a mouse.
And I'm saying this as a joystick stomper and advocate ;-)
Question about the Jenner-D, I'm running it right now with 4ML, 2SRM4(1.5), 2JJ, XL295. I went through that SRM4 ammo pretty quickly, and I'm thinking of downgrading the engine to add more ammo. How low would you go on the engine size to fit more ammo and maybe an additional DHS?
Once you elite the Jenners out you can easily drop to a 280. I hit about 151kph with a 300XL in, which is often actually annoying as any lights I'm running with can't keep up. Especially the ones with ECM I'm trying to hide under.
the thing is that with XLs, dropping speed for really anything else doesn't produce a big return in terms of tonnage. For every ton of engine you lose, you're losing 6-8 kph and for the most part that is just not a good trade; you need that speed for survival, scouting, etc., and realistically it doesn't buy you that much more firepower/DPS.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
also regular firestarters are pretty good; similar to a jenner F really, but with options to do some funny stuff like boat 8xSLa (I really with they could fit the clan small lasers)
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
the thing is that with XLs, dropping speed for really anything else doesn't produce a big return in terms of tonnage. For every ton of engine you lose, you're losing 6-8 kph and for the most part that is just not a good trade; you need that speed for survival, scouting, etc., and realistically it doesn't buy you that much more firepower/DPS.
I'd have to disagree there, depending on the build and it's intention of course. For me, dropping from a 300 to a 280 XL is a 3 ton decrease (taking into account the lost engine heat sink, otherwise 4 tons). For a 35 ton mech this is not insignificant, allowing for example a whole AMS setup (plus spare tonnage), an SRM4 + ammo or just a decent increase in heat capacity.
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
edited June 2014
I routinely run an XL280 in my 35t mechs, if it's for a good reason. That reason, prior to half-ton ammo, was usually to preserve a given weapon loadout while adding AMS+1t ammo.
A 35t Light with Tweak and an XL300 goes 151 kph. A 35t Light with Tweak and an XL280 goes 142 kph, and then also has room for AMS to stave off death by small-to-medium LRM pokes/small Streak flights.
I would generally agree with Pig and Gorn here; dropping engine rating for firepower on a light mech is not a good trade, as you usually aren't going to improve your loadout all that much. Trading that speed for utility, however, is perfectly fine by me. I wouldn't go below 140 kph in any light mech, though, because speed really is your protection.
Been playing all Kit Foxes and Adders lately. They're like lightly-armored and armed mediums. I miss my speed-capped IS lights.
Also, the 4x3 MM patch still can't get here fast enough. The queues dropped as low as 5% lights at one point last night, with lights+mediums together as low as 20% regularly. Fucking gross.
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
edited June 2014
It'll be a Wednesday patch this week, due to a Canadian holiday, but yeah, the MM fixes are supposed to be going in this week.
In other discussion: Clan Ultra Autocannons. I've got a UAC5 on a Kit Fox and a UAC10 on an Adder. I feel like I'm jamming at higher-than-average rates that are probably my fault entirely. How I doubletap for damage? Note: I am a novice Ultra user.
All I'm seeing is that after you account for there being more Clan mechs on the field, they are still ahead of the IS in damage (not as important) and kills (important). PEBCAC issues are just an opinion.
The sample size is still small, however.
And most of those pilots have not changed their builds or tactics.
What are those changes to builds and tactics the IS would have to do?
I'm just getting back in after not having played in months, so I am curious.
I mostly noticed that my beloved 3AC2 Victor performs worse now, might be because of clan mech meta or because I'm not used to playing anymore.
All I'm seeing is that after you account for there being more Clan mechs on the field, they are still ahead of the IS in damage (not as important) and kills (important). PEBCAC issues are just an opinion.
The sample size is still small, however.
And most of those pilots have not changed their builds or tactics.
What are those changes to builds and tactics the IS would have to do?
I'm just getting back in after not having played in months, so I am curious.
I mostly noticed that my beloved 3AC2 Victor performs worse now, might be because of clan mech meta or because I'm not used to playing anymore.
It's actually because they gimped AC/2's for no reason.
All I'm seeing is that after you account for there being more Clan mechs on the field, they are still ahead of the IS in damage (not as important) and kills (important). PEBCAC issues are just an opinion.
The sample size is still small, however.
And most of those pilots have not changed their builds or tactics.
What are those changes to builds and tactics the IS would have to do?
I'm just getting back in after not having played in months, so I am curious.
I mostly noticed that my beloved 3AC2 Victor performs worse now, might be because of clan mech meta or because I'm not used to playing anymore.
If you've taken a long break, they took AC/2 stacking and beat it over the head with a stick.
As far as IS tactics changes, to be short, up until now, proper torso twisting is not a skill that has been required. At all. With the damage clan mechs put out, the IS need to properly twist to survive brawls. Speed is now even more paramount on IS mechs. Most players just don't rotate properly, or disengage soon enough.
In essence, they don't play to the strengths of their mechs while avoiding the strengths of their enemy.
All I'm seeing is that after you account for there being more Clan mechs on the field, they are still ahead of the IS in damage (not as important) and kills (important). PEBCAC issues are just an opinion.
The sample size is still small, however.
And most of those pilots have not changed their builds or tactics.
What are those changes to builds and tactics the IS would have to do?
I'm just getting back in after not having played in months, so I am curious.
I mostly noticed that my beloved 3AC2 Victor performs worse now, might be because of clan mech meta or because I'm not used to playing anymore.
If you've taken a long break, they took AC/2 stacking and beat it over the head with a stick.
As far as IS tactics changes, to be short, up until now, proper torso twisting is not a skill that has been required. At all. With the damage clan mechs put out, the IS need to properly twist to survive brawls. Speed is now even more paramount on IS mechs. Most players just don't rotate properly, or disengage soon enough.
In essence, they don't play to the strengths of their mechs while avoiding the strengths of their enemy.
Yeah, a lot of people are far too willing to walk straight up to the Clans which is exactly what the Clans want you to do. Overcomitting in a brawl against the Clans will get you torn to pieces in a hurry. The IS have superior alpha striking capabilities so the better plan is to put those to work by not getting right up into point blank range and instead using the terrain and cover to jab at them. Basically, instead of just diving headlong into the brawl like we used to, we need to play a bit more cautiously.
All I'm seeing is that after you account for there being more Clan mechs on the field, they are still ahead of the IS in damage (not as important) and kills (important). PEBCAC issues are just an opinion.
The sample size is still small, however.
And most of those pilots have not changed their builds or tactics.
What are those changes to builds and tactics the IS would have to do?
I'm just getting back in after not having played in months, so I am curious.
I mostly noticed that my beloved 3AC2 Victor performs worse now, might be because of clan mech meta or because I'm not used to playing anymore.
If you've taken a long break, they took AC/2 stacking and beat it over the head with a stick.
As far as IS tactics changes, to be short, up until now, proper torso twisting is not a skill that has been required. At all. With the damage clan mechs put out, the IS need to properly twist to survive brawls. Speed is now even more paramount on IS mechs. Most players just don't rotate properly, or disengage soon enough.
In essence, they don't play to the strengths of their mechs while avoiding the strengths of their enemy.
Yeah, a lot of people are far too willing to walk straight up to the Clans which is exactly what the Clans want you to do. Overcomitting in a brawl against the Clans will get you torn to pieces in a hurry. The IS have superior alpha striking capabilities so the better plan is to put those to work by not getting right up into point blank range and instead using the terrain and cover to jab at them. Basically, instead of just diving headlong into the brawl like we used to, we need to play a bit more cautiously.
On the surface, it sounds like the jumpsnipe meta is perfectly suited to fighting Clans. And it kind of is. But to go back to TOG's initial point, people aren't modifying their tactics.
Traditional meta play is you just jumpsnipe constantly, even after the enemy closes, just keep jumpsniping. The problem is, they never pull back when the enemy pushes forward, they just keep jumpsniping, confident the enemy will be too beaten to put up a fight when they actually get close. This isn't the case with the Clans. So suddenly, your meta Victor finds itself in a fight with somebody that won't fold after four jumpsnipes, and no ability to disengage. The habit of scooping out a ST is demonstrably less effective on a clan mech, given the XLs, but you still see people doing it as a priority. This gives the Clans more than enough time to take out the IS mech.
I've also found that getting a fast IS light into the back line of clan mechs can really disrupt things fast. That daishi is going to get a little worried when his back armor dissapears in a few seconds. Overall, I'm cautiously optimistic so far in regards to he balance between IS and Clan. Balance between individual mechs, well, that's another story. We'll just have to see how the meta continues to play out, and how the 4x3 system opens things up for groups that reguarly play mix-weight instead of just whatever the meta happens to be that week.
Posts
Actually, @Nips , while I'm thinking about it, I really want to do some AMS tests. I want to see how two mechs side by side fare against a volley, and then I want to see how they fare if the target of the missiles steps backwards while the teammate steps forward, and then how they fare if both mechs back up.
Sorry, was a bit sleep deprived when I wrote that post.
The quote is from the first update about the next patch. They are adding absolute control for joysticks, which means stick control should play more like previous MW games and less like trying to aina mouse pointer with a stick
Wait... You want to aim with a stick?
I'm using a joystick because analog throttle and turning are way too useful, but mouse aiming is far too good to pass up.
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
It feels better. :P And the reason mouse aiming is superior in MWO right now is because of the way the inputs work.
Ran a 3 AMS/ECM/2ERLL Kit Fox...I think this build is sticking around. I spent most of the round hanging around the team and taking pot-shots; the other team concentrated on the more dangerous targets, leaving me free to blast away. Finished with 500 damage, 1 kill, 8 assists and 160k cbills.
Then twice in a row I died early in the game because a teammate would walk their mech right up behind me and just stand there, stopping me from maneuvering.
Speaking as the self-appointed Pope of the Holy Church of Dakka, you're doing the Lord's work.
So are the regular Firestarters as good as they look on paper or am I setting myself up for disappointment because god damn, that's a lot of pew pew.
..this has to be done.
I about crapped my pants when i ran into an Adder with 2 LRM20s.
... A UAC 20 Adder sounda delicious .
Amusingly enough that's a stock build.
First run with the UAC/20 Adder ending in spectacular failure. Classic "went to flank, ran into entire enemy team instead" moment, and the UAC jammed.
The second game went a lot better. Conquest, a Firestarter and I double-teamed a dual-Gauss Firebrand and took him out, then doubled back and ripped open a few more mechs. We still lost in the end, but it was a good run.
The number of light pilots I'm seeing who stop moving is distressing.
Which is all the damn time for me.
I'm with you on the feels ;-) but I don't see joystick aim being even close to comparable to mouse aim, even with absolute inputs. Keep in mind joysticks only tend to have 8bit analog input, i.e. 256 steps per axis. That is awfully imprecise for the 180°+ torso twist most mechs have. Absolute input will definitely take it from being loljoystickaim to something at least workable, but I can't see it being competitive with a mouse.
And I'm saying this as a joystick stomper and advocate ;-)
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
I'd disagree here; if the build will benefit from it dropping 10-15 KPH from max is fine. I wouldn't go below 120, though.
maybe just drop a DHS and add a ton of ammo? 4xMla isn't too terribly hot
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Also lolecm.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I'd have to disagree there, depending on the build and it's intention of course. For me, dropping from a 300 to a 280 XL is a 3 ton decrease (taking into account the lost engine heat sink, otherwise 4 tons). For a 35 ton mech this is not insignificant, allowing for example a whole AMS setup (plus spare tonnage), an SRM4 + ammo or just a decent increase in heat capacity.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
A 35t Light with Tweak and an XL300 goes 151 kph. A 35t Light with Tweak and an XL280 goes 142 kph, and then also has room for AMS to stave off death by small-to-medium LRM pokes/small Streak flights.
I would generally agree with Pig and Gorn here; dropping engine rating for firepower on a light mech is not a good trade, as you usually aren't going to improve your loadout all that much. Trading that speed for utility, however, is perfectly fine by me. I wouldn't go below 140 kph in any light mech, though, because speed really is your protection.
Been playing all Kit Foxes and Adders lately. They're like lightly-armored and armed mediums. I miss my speed-capped IS lights.
Also, the 4x3 MM patch still can't get here fast enough. The queues dropped as low as 5% lights at one point last night, with lights+mediums together as low as 20% regularly. Fucking gross.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
In other discussion: Clan Ultra Autocannons. I've got a UAC5 on a Kit Fox and a UAC10 on an Adder. I feel like I'm jamming at higher-than-average rates that are probably my fault entirely. How I doubletap for damage? Note: I am a novice Ultra user.
I'm just getting back in after not having played in months, so I am curious.
I mostly noticed that my beloved 3AC2 Victor performs worse now, might be because of clan mech meta or because I'm not used to playing anymore.
It's actually because they gimped AC/2's for no reason.
If you've taken a long break, they took AC/2 stacking and beat it over the head with a stick.
As far as IS tactics changes, to be short, up until now, proper torso twisting is not a skill that has been required. At all. With the damage clan mechs put out, the IS need to properly twist to survive brawls. Speed is now even more paramount on IS mechs. Most players just don't rotate properly, or disengage soon enough.
In essence, they don't play to the strengths of their mechs while avoiding the strengths of their enemy.
Yeah, a lot of people are far too willing to walk straight up to the Clans which is exactly what the Clans want you to do. Overcomitting in a brawl against the Clans will get you torn to pieces in a hurry. The IS have superior alpha striking capabilities so the better plan is to put those to work by not getting right up into point blank range and instead using the terrain and cover to jab at them. Basically, instead of just diving headlong into the brawl like we used to, we need to play a bit more cautiously.
On the surface, it sounds like the jumpsnipe meta is perfectly suited to fighting Clans. And it kind of is. But to go back to TOG's initial point, people aren't modifying their tactics.
Traditional meta play is you just jumpsnipe constantly, even after the enemy closes, just keep jumpsniping. The problem is, they never pull back when the enemy pushes forward, they just keep jumpsniping, confident the enemy will be too beaten to put up a fight when they actually get close. This isn't the case with the Clans. So suddenly, your meta Victor finds itself in a fight with somebody that won't fold after four jumpsnipes, and no ability to disengage. The habit of scooping out a ST is demonstrably less effective on a clan mech, given the XLs, but you still see people doing it as a priority. This gives the Clans more than enough time to take out the IS mech.