My asshole brain wouldn't shut up last night and started nagging me about the stupidity of walking tanks like battlemechs, and how the first power to deploy them would be at a huge advantage militarily and psychologically until others realized to aim for the knee joints where you can only put so much armor without preventing operation, destroying millions of value with hundreds in value of explosives, and how it makes no sense to make huge assault mechs with multi-million c-bill chassis loaded down with multi-million cbills of weapons and multi-million cbills of equipment, and how no sane military would ever opt for XL engines over standards outside of unique specialized cases like spotting/recon mechs that need to be super light and super fast, certainly not in actual combat mechs because no military is going to go how can I make my units more venerable to weapons fire and lose everything?
Completely ignoring the fact of how stupid scout mechs are, as even at 20 tons they are super heavy, leave super obvious trails and evidence of their presence, and could easily show up on seismic sensors and are HUGE compared to just a couple guys in mobility enhancing armor or a car/truck/hovercraft.
And how, discounting the fact that a 100 ton tank should, pound for pound, vastly superiorly armored to a 100 ton battlemech, how its utterly a pointless waste of resources to field anything above lights, and how any sane military would basically build super light lights that were basically a big gun with legs, like an AC/20 or a PPC, that way you loss a 1-1.5 million cbills at worse and how the loss of one mech isn't that huge a loss of fire power compared to the loss of a heavy or an assault where one bad shot can make you lose a massive amount of weaponry and combat effectiveness for the force as a whole.
and all this is pointless considering how you can put mech weaponry on tanks which, in 90% of environment's, would be better armored, be a more stable platform, be easier to hide, and is vastly superior to manufacture, maintain and deploy, and how they could use the XL engines without as much risk as mechs thanks to the vastly superior armor they should have when compared to mechs of a comparable weight class.
I promptly told my brain to shut up, then punished it with two shots of whiskey.
If you don't have air superiority, 'Mechs would basically be giant walking targets.
I'm going to take my friends suggestion and turn this around with some music based jokes instead:
"Every move you make
every lock you break
I'll be watchin' you."
"Don't stand so, don't stand so, don't stand so close to me." (re: friendly fire)
"NEEEWWWWW MECH,
you don't have to put on the red liiiiight.
Third person's not good.
You don't have to GIVE AWAY OUR STARTEGIC POSITION IN THE NIGHT."
Someone needs to yell at PGI's mech designer. A Medium mechs are starting to look like assaults.
Eh. Walking combat vehicle? Of course it should look menacing. And Alex's stuff all has a kind of similar look aesthetically. The important thing is that it needs to be a) short, b) skinny, c) lanky, or any combination of those things.
Since we have a direct comparison point (Blackjack), if it's radically different in size, then we've got grounds to complain.
I could see this being fun, if running a bit hot. As with all mediums, it could be a solid second-line direct-fire-support mech. Maybe better than a comparable Blackjack using all energy weapons, since the Vindicator gets the slight cut to heat generation.
Nips on
0
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Thats why I run my Blackjacks with dual LBX 10's. Heat is a thing of the past.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I call it the Sprinticader..Fasticader..Vindisprint...something clever. You could drop a ton of SRM ammo for another double, or more AMS ammo, if you don't wish to FIRE ALL THE MISSILES.
Honestly, it's not fast enough to compete with a Sprinturion, so you're probably better off dropping the engine back down and going a different direction.
Trying to find compelling reasons to go Vindicator over Blackjack....dig, dig, dig.
Honestly, it's not fast enough to compete with a Sprinturion, so you're probably better off dropping the engine back down to around 109 kph and going a different direction.
Trying to find compelling reasons to go Vindicator over Blackjack....dig, dig, dig.
Huh, I thought the max engine was 250. No idea where I got that idea though.
Honestly, it's not fast enough to compete with a Sprinturion, so you're probably better off dropping the engine back down and going a different direction.
Trying to find compelling reasons to go Vindicator over Blackjack....dig, dig, dig.
Do you want ballistic and lasers? Blackjack
Do you want missiles and lasers? Vindicator
+1
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
edited August 2014
Yeah, the -1AA caps at 295, the -1R and -1X at 235, and the Ives at 250.
The -1X has triple-ballistics in the Left Arm, which is intriguing. Spitballing here: VND-1X: 1xPPC, 1xMPL, 1xSRM4(1t), 3xMG(1.5t), STD235, Endo, Ferro, 4xJJ. It's got a weird, maybe-not-good mix of weapons (one of everything!), and it's not really fast enough to leverage the triple MG's as much as I'd like. Still, could have potential.
What the -1X can't do, that the Blackjack can, is mount an AC/20. So that's a thing.
I could see this being fun, if running a bit hot. As with all mediums, it could be a solid second-line direct-fire-support mech. Maybe better than a comparable Blackjack using all energy weapons, since the Vindicator gets the slight cut to heat generation.
The Arrow makes a superior 2PPC jumping hit and runner. Higher and torso mounted hardpoints.
Hero mech prices are based purely on tonnage, so this isn't actually the case.
Kaboodles, crusher of dreams.
...I only had time to play three matches with the Vindicator...I forgot how fragile 45 tonners are. I was doing STD250, 3xML, 2xASRM6, but I really hate running mechs without a long-range poke, so I'll probably switch it up and try something else. I will say that the build I was using more or less felt like a HBK-4SP with one less laser and jump jets though, it wasn't horrible -just severely range-limited.
Edit: I didn't notice it, but people are saying that the heat weapons are off of the weapon modules now. However, they haven't raised the module cap yet. Time to grind for IS modules, to close that gap a bit with Clanner's absurd ranges...
...oh wait, Clanners can use those modules as well.
Booooo. I mean, it still looks cool, but boooo. I'd rather have seen that get used for this:
I'm still surprised PGI hasn't put out an MC Urbie considering they'd make all the money from it.
I WANT AN URBANMECH.
+1
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Surprised no-one posted the Patch Notes. So, there.
UPDATE
Greetings MechWarriors!
Prepare to feel vindicated with this week's patch! Above all else, we've introduced some optimizations to the server in order to improve quality of service in response to the growing concerns of connectivity.
Coincidentally, we are also happy to introduce the Vindicator 'Mech with a Hero appearance: The St. Ives' Blue VND-1SIB is a Medium class Hero Mech which comes with a 30% C-Bill reward bonus while in use. It boasts 3 Energy hardpoints, 2 Missile, AMS, 5 Jump Jet slots and a Max. Engine rating of 250.
We have also included Camo Patterns for the Nova into this patch and are introducing the Isobaric Speaker warhorn to the in-game store.
Moving away from the store and into the game, we have big changes coming for modules: First, Players must now choose between Artillery and Air Strike consumables on all 'Mechs, they may not equip both. Secondly, the Mastery module is now dynamic, and can be used as either a Weapon or a Mech module.
A number of connection issues related to the front and back ends have also been resolved, among other bug fixes. Please see the full details below.
Content
Vindicator St. Ives' Blue VND-1SIB
Tonnage: 45
Engine: 180 Standard
Top Speed: 64.8 kph
Max Engine Rating: 250
Torso Movement:
125 degrees to each side.
30 degrees up and down.
Arm Movement:
35 degrees to each side.
30 degrees up and down.
Armor: 288 (Standard)
Internal Structure: Standard
Weapons & Equipment:
Head: Medium Laser
Left Arm: Small Laser
Left Torso: LRM 10
Right Arm: Large Laser
Hardpoints:
Head: 1 Energy
Left Arm: 1 Energy
Left Torso: 2 Missile
Right Torso: 1 AMS
Right Arm: 1 Energy
Heat Sinks: 15 Single
Jump Jets: 4 (5 Max)
ECM Capable?: No
Module Slots:
Mech: 1
Consumable: 2
Weapon: 2
Movement Archetype: Medium
Quirks:
Heat Generation (Energy): -5%
Heat Generation (Missile): -5%
30% C-Bill Bonus
New Skins
Skins added for Nova Mechs.
New Cockpit Item
Mounted Type
Classic Isobaric Speaker (Warhorn)
Gameplay
Module changes
Mastery module slot is switched to a hybrid module slot, that can hold both weapon and Mech modules.
Players must now choose between Air Strikes and Artillery Strikes.
A 'Mech cannot equip both Air Strikes and Artillery Strikes.
A 'Mech can only equip one Air Strike or one Artillery Strike.
Spawn points no longer random in training grounds.
Internal tuning on the new Vindicator.
Performance
Optimizations to the amount of bandwidth between server and client have been worked on.
Players should notice more stable gameplay and fewer disconnects.
Bug Fixes
Fixed an issue where the client will soft-lock when there's a price change from the back-end.
Fixed an issue where the client will sometimes get stuck on the 'Connecting' overlay.
Resolved an issue where some players were unable to reconnect after closing through Alt-F4.
Resolved an issue where some players were stuck saving, purchasing or connecting indefinitely.
Fixed an issue where players would sometimes spawn in spectator camera.
Fixed Missing Laser and PPC textures on the Kit Fox right arm.
Updated Trebuchet Machine gun Models to Inner-Sphere style.
Updated Spider Machine gun Models to Inner-Sphere style.
Aug 19th-26th: Community Warfare Module 1 release. I have indicated a range here because were working hard to get this out as soon as possible. There still remains a reasonable possibility this will come out with the Aug 19th patch but let’s just say it’s going to be close and we want to make sure it functions properly. Therefore, if it’s not quite ready for the Aug 19th patch, one option might be to add a patch later that week like Friday the 22nd, But were confident that worst case scenario will see CW Module 1 released no later than Aug 26th.
Well the LRM maelstrom has passed, it seems, with the tournament coming close to an end. Managed to play 3 whole rounds without being obliterated under LRM8,000,000,000
Aug 19th-26th: Community Warfare Module 1 release. I have indicated a range here because were working hard to get this out as soon as possible. There still remains a reasonable possibility this will come out with the Aug 19th patch but let’s just say it’s going to be close and we want to make sure it functions properly. Therefore, if it’s not quite ready for the Aug 19th patch, one option might be to add a patch later that week like Friday the 22nd, But were confident that worst case scenario will see CW Module 1 released no later than Aug 26th.
My asshole brain talking about infeasability of mechs.
Counterpoint:
GIANT STOMPY ROBITS!
Counter-Counterpoint: What kind of crazy pants military system is going to sink a massive amount of R&D, then actual procurement money into a single compromised weapon system that does nothing particularly well, and costs more than multiple specialized systems put together? -- Looks at the F-35 program.
Right then, I fully expect the U.S. and Lockheed-Martin to be leading the international group fielding the first 30 ton mechs in less than 25 years then. Sigh.
also, I don't get the point of releasing a new IS mech saddled with (for the most part) a low engine cap. The main thing IS lights and mediums have going for them at this point is moving faster than clan counterparts
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Posts
If you don't have air superiority, 'Mechs would basically be giant walking targets.
I am not pleased at the theme of this hero mech, given the current situation in the US. Which is a shame because it does look really cool...
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
"Every move you make
every lock you break
I'll be watchin' you."
"Don't stand so, don't stand so, don't stand so close to me." (re: friendly fire)
"NEEEWWWWW MECH,
you don't have to put on the red liiiiight.
Third person's not good.
You don't have to GIVE AWAY OUR STARTEGIC POSITION IN THE NIGHT."
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
Eh. Walking combat vehicle? Of course it should look menacing. And Alex's stuff all has a kind of similar look aesthetically. The important thing is that it needs to be a) short, b) skinny, c) lanky, or any combination of those things.
Since we have a direct comparison point (Blackjack), if it's radically different in size, then we've got grounds to complain.
It's made by Canadians, so just pretend it's a Canadian cop
Canadians have cops? I thought they had Mounties?
And reposting the image, because that was so last-page:
ST. IVES' BLUES: 2xPPC, 1xML, Endo, Ferro, DHS, STD240, 3xJJ
I could see this being fun, if running a bit hot. As with all mediums, it could be a solid second-line direct-fire-support mech. Maybe better than a comparable Blackjack using all energy weapons, since the Vindicator gets the slight cut to heat generation.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
ST. IVES' BLUES 2xERLL,2xSRM4,AMS
I call it the Sprinticader..Fasticader..Vindisprint...something clever. You could drop a ton of SRM ammo for another double, or more AMS ammo, if you don't wish to FIRE ALL THE MISSILES.
Apparently it's based on lore, so I guess it would make sense. Still shitty though.
Hero mech prices are based purely on tonnage, so this isn't actually the case.
VND-1AA: 3xML, 1xLL, SRM6+A(2t), XL295, 13xDHS, 2xJJ
Honestly, it's not fast enough to compete with a Sprinturion, so you're probably better off dropping the engine back down and going a different direction.
Trying to find compelling reasons to go Vindicator over Blackjack....dig, dig, dig.
Huh, I thought the max engine was 250. No idea where I got that idea though.
Do you want ballistic and lasers? Blackjack
Do you want missiles and lasers? Vindicator
The -1X has triple-ballistics in the Left Arm, which is intriguing. Spitballing here: VND-1X: 1xPPC, 1xMPL, 1xSRM4(1t), 3xMG(1.5t), STD235, Endo, Ferro, 4xJJ. It's got a weird, maybe-not-good mix of weapons (one of everything!), and it's not really fast enough to leverage the triple MG's as much as I'd like. Still, could have potential.
What the -1X can't do, that the Blackjack can, is mount an AC/20. So that's a thing.
The Arrow makes a superior 2PPC jumping hit and runner. Higher and torso mounted hardpoints.
Awww, they took the ole Urbanmech Hero idea.
Booooo. I mean, it still looks cool, but boooo. I'd rather have seen that get used for this:
I'm still surprised PGI hasn't put out an MC Urbie considering they'd make all the money from it.
Kaboodles, crusher of dreams.
...I only had time to play three matches with the Vindicator...I forgot how fragile 45 tonners are. I was doing STD250, 3xML, 2xASRM6, but I really hate running mechs without a long-range poke, so I'll probably switch it up and try something else. I will say that the build I was using more or less felt like a HBK-4SP with one less laser and jump jets though, it wasn't horrible -just severely range-limited.
Edit: I didn't notice it, but people are saying that the heat weapons are off of the weapon modules now. However, they haven't raised the module cap yet. Time to grind for IS modules, to close that gap a bit with Clanner's absurd ranges...
...oh wait, Clanners can use those modules as well.
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
I WANT AN URBANMECH.
It's only racist if PGI release these guys at the same time.
EDIT: Otherwise, thoroughly enjoying my Vindicator
MWO: Adamski
Yeah, I thought we were getting the first bit of CW today.
PGI? Deliver something big on time?
Ha.
Not that I'm defending PGI's "commitment" to dates.
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
So Q1 2015?
Counterpoint:
GIANT STOMPY ROBITS!
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Any mechs come with an XL250 or slightly lower?
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
it looks like the treb 7m comes with a 250, if for some reason you want a trebuchet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Counter-Counterpoint: What kind of crazy pants military system is going to sink a massive amount of R&D, then actual procurement money into a single compromised weapon system that does nothing particularly well, and costs more than multiple specialized systems put together? -- Looks at the F-35 program.
Right then, I fully expect the U.S. and Lockheed-Martin to be leading the international group fielding the first 30 ton mechs in less than 25 years then. Sigh.
Contributing writer at Marooner's Rock
Twitch broadcasting! Currently playing through Wing Commander II
Pinny Lanyard
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat