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[League of Legends] Our Final Boss is not the biggest bad

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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Zyrxil wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Why am I seeing all these Alistars top? Also, why is he building triforce?

    He got some minor buffs and people realized that Alistar top can be very strong. With triforce he does great damage, with statikk shiv he clears waves like a boss, then you just build tank. Also, as soon as you get a sheen(first item) you can outtrade a ton of people by just headbutting them and AAing them right as the headbutt lands. You get a sheen procced AA plus the headbutt damage. Especially squishy champs can't handle it at all. They can't even retaliate because they're knocked back after the damage lands.

    Not so minor buffs- significant mana cost reductions on Q/W. The most important one is that his ult is now a flat 70% damage reduction at all ranks. This lets him dive right in teamfights even at level 6.

    They weren't super huge buffs. They were enough to get him back in bot lane(and now top lane) and kill his jungle simultaneously with the nerf to his passive. Honestly, jungle is the only place they need to make sure he doesn't work so it's fine.

    I could see them reverting the mana cost reduction on his headbutt since it's the key to him being able to top lane as effectively as he is, but we'll see. I don't think the damage reduction at early levels is really part of what's making him so problematic right now.

    Joshmvii on
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    KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    Alliance is defending these towers like a bronze 3 team

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    KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    Well....


    I guess if they get a good teamfight they're terrifying though

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    CyrenicCyrenic Registered User regular
    I feel like SK and Alliance are both playing so sloppy in these games.

    Fun to watch, though!

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    RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Burnage wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    You don't have to carry with damage.

    It was my experience in bronze that you absolutely do. Relying on the rest of your team to follow up on CC is incredibly unreliable, as is relying on your AD carry to press a lane advantage.

    Amumu is capable of throwing out far more damage than either Nami or Sona so the comparison between them isn't perfect.

    I have watched both Saint and Brokenshard play jungle heroes to get to Diamond. One thing I found absolutely telling is that if they lost a couple of games in a row at gold, they would immediately switch to "champions I can carry with."

    The common experience over and over again I see from high ranked players is that if they ever get momentarily stuck, they just say "fuck it, I'm carrying, doesn't matter where."

    It is absolutely possible to get stuck at an Elo, and you may need to find a different champ that you can carry with. That's precisely what I did with Sej last season. It wasn't like I was magically better at the game, I just found a hero that I could play well and whose impact was game deciding.

    Roz on
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    i think the important takeaway is that while you can carry with almost every champion, you may not be able to carry with every champion or even your favourite ones

    liEt3nH.png
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    DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    imdointhis wrote: »
    my favorite part of support velkoz is when their jungler tries to blue and you're the bottom team and you just wiggle on up there and poke them forever

    UVWmc7dXENqF7C2eSiyJZl3k0LOW2ahn2Nv_XZXUeGdEVdYq2RebscvTjEIs5wyjjlJ4SH6A1diR6wlA9iIMnz9pBZNr-cxbJU7VXmqIe380bw=w195-h218-nc

    Is how support vel koz feels. Oh did you think we were going to bother with positioning? Nope.

    DasUberEdward on
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    PrjctD_CaptainPrjctD_Captain iFizzRegistered User regular
    Spectrum wrote: »
    With all the Vi games, had to check: Nope, Udyr is still a monster
    NPEXzYB.jpg

    Well, okay, this game Quinn decided to harass out Wu at his level 1 blue start so he was super behind, then I went top and got her the kill up there on Shyvana to make up for the lost experience

    What is your secret? I can never seem to get Tiger/FF Udyr to work out.

    Steam: BrightWing
    PSN: BrightWing13 FFX|V:ARR Bright Asuna
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    RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    i think the important takeaway is that while you can carry with almost every champion, you may not be able to carry with every champion or even your favourite ones

    Yep this. 100X this. I love Vi. Cannot win the lane game with her, even when fed. However, I can absolutely win games on Liss. Even games where I'm monstrously behind.

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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Spectrum wrote: »
    With all the Vi games, had to check: Nope, Udyr is still a monster
    NPEXzYB.jpg

    Well, okay, this game Quinn decided to harass out Wu at his level 1 blue start so he was super behind, then I went top and got her the kill up there on Shyvana to make up for the lost experience

    What is your secret? I can never seem to get Tiger/FF Udyr to work out.
    For one thing, if you're building FF, you should in Phoenix or Godyr, not Tiger main. I had this discussion half a thread ago or so, but basically Tiger scales hardest off pure AD and gets free AS. FF is a magic damage and AS focused item and though it has a little AD, I maintain that you're better off going Lizard if you were doing Tiger jungle. (And hell, if you're doing Tiger jungle, at that point you consider going Doran's Blade out of the jungle instead)

    Beyond that, if you're Tiger, you need to abuse his early game and smash someone to get ahead, you can't afford to try and powerfarm (which he's worse at than Phoenix) and stack your Flare up.

    These days if I'm on Udyr, I generally do a modified Godyr and go R, W, E, R, Q. R > W > E > Q. (Instead of Trick's R Q E, because I want the safety at 3 instead of the damage)

    edit: Also if we're getting dumpstered pre-4, I abort out of Godyr and potentially abort even out of Flare and do pure Phoenix and potentially even Golem and just go pure tank and cause problems in lanes constantly

    Spectrum on
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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Spectrum wrote: »
    With all the Vi games, had to check: Nope, Udyr is still a monster
    NPEXzYB.jpg

    Well, okay, this game Quinn decided to harass out Wu at his level 1 blue start so he was super behind, then I went top and got her the kill up there on Shyvana to make up for the lost experience

    What is your secret? I can never seem to get Tiger/FF Udyr to work out.

    I'm not him, but as a fellow Godyr player, I'm pretty sure he's running Godyr(1 point early in tiger but you still max phoenix). You go madred's and spirit stone and just farm your ass off to get flare, then you keep farming, you farm all game, you become an impossible to stop and kill split pusher, and when it comes time to clean up fights, you're stronger than the enemy team solo laners ideally.

    The best thing you could possibly do if you want to get better at Udyr is go watch Trick2G's youtube videos called "Godyr my way," etc. He's the only jungle Udyr main in D1, at least that has a twitch/youtube following, and he's pretty much a master at the champion.

    I wouldn't be gold right now if it wasn't for watching his stream and picking up Udyr, and even mechanics and knowledge that have served me equally well with Skarner, Yi, etc.

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Talith wrote: »
    Which is funny since they previously specifically nerfed the damage reduction at lower levels to reduce his diving power.
    They were worried about his jungle dove power but the trample change neutered his clear time so hard it's not a concern.

    wbBv3fj.png
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    imdointhisimdointhis I should actually stop doin' this. Registered User regular
    @DasUberEdward a mutual respect for both achewood and support vel'koz makes me feel like im not alone in this world

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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    imdointhis wrote: »
    @DasUberEdward a mutual respect for both achewood and support vel'koz makes me feel like im not alone in this world
    @TeknoXI has been spamming Vel'koz support and loving it also

    XNnw6Gk.jpg
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    TeknoXITeknoXI Registered User regular
    Spectrum wrote: »
    imdointhis wrote: »
    @DasUberEdward a mutual respect for both achewood and support vel'koz makes me feel like im not alone in this world
    @TeknoXI has been spamming Vel'koz support and loving it also

    Suppprt Vel'koz is OP as fuck. But, you need to ban Morg. Zyra can be a problem because of those damned plants of her. Be wary of dashers, they make life hard.

    League of Legends: TeknoXI
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    imdointhisimdointhis I should actually stop doin' this. Registered User regular
    dont bother banning morg, just destroy her with lazers. I guess at my balsa wood bracket people cant dodge Q, and you use way less mana than morg will.

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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    I would've thought Vel'koz would be really good against Morg?

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    CyrenicCyrenic Registered User regular
    All you support Vel Koz players drop some knowledge about skill order and items you like on him

    If it's anything like Zyra support I might be interested in playing it.

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    RaslinRaslin Registered User regular
    Yeah, I feel somewhat stuck at my elo, partially because I don't play champs that typically can hard carry. Bit my play style is more of the "Be in the back doing damage, and not dying". On the rare times I get adc, I feel much more impactful.

    Of course, the main reasons are drunk ranked, I don't roam enough, and I'm awful at keeping my eye on the mini map.

    I cant url good so add me on steam anyways steamcommunity.com/id/Raslin

    3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
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    TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    Morg's binding kills vel, though you shouldn't be in range. Leo is a much stronger vel killer.

    League of Legends: Sorakanmyworld
    FFXIV: Tchel Fay
    Nintendo ID: Tortalius
    Steam: Tortalius
    Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
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    imdointhisimdointhis I should actually stop doin' this. Registered User regular
    I max Q then E, one point early in w cause its really easy to proc your dagger.

    I start tickle knife, 1 biscuit, 3 mana pots, and ward trink

    if i back with 800+, i grab the eyeball and turn my yellow trink into a red one

    sub 800 i upgrade my knifey.

    before i do frost queen's claim, i grab a haunting guise, then nab some boots sometime then finish the guise whatever its called that does the burny thing

    then boots 2 then usually some sorta mpen and just destroy them all with your ult once you see a good shot, typically try to melt their adc if you can

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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Raslin wrote: »
    Yeah, I feel somewhat stuck at my elo, partially because I don't play champs that typically can hard carry. Bit my play style is more of the "Be in the back doing damage, and not dying". On the rare times I get adc, I feel much more impactful.

    Of course, the main reasons are drunk ranked, I don't roam enough, and I'm awful at keeping my eye on the mini map.

    I feel stuck because of all of the random nonsense that happens, between smurfs, AFKs, ragequitters, etc.

    People seem to forget how prevalent that is at Bronze / Silver.


    Games at that elo are decided most often by coin toss - after that, they are decided by the players with the lowest skill cap, because those players create a gold distribution that so heavily favors the opposing team that no amount of talent can overcome it (especially in solo queue, where people give up & rage the moment anything goes wrong).

    With Love and Courage
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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Man team builder is hilarious. I just wanted to try out the Arcade MF skin(it's rad btw). My team is Gnar top, then blitz, nautilus, mundo all with smite. The blitz went jungle and built feral flare, triforce and wit's end, the mundo and naut just went mid and shared farm against TF. I actually traded 1 for 1 kills against Cait/Sona when I hit 6 before they had ults and then i just farmed and rotated mid to pressure the tower whenever they'd try to zone me off CS bot and not take my outer turret.

    Ended up winning the game and I ended up carrying. Seeing blitz attack with all that attack speed was just too funny to watch.

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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    Spectrum wrote: »
    Spectrum wrote: »
    With all the Vi games, had to check: Nope, Udyr is still a monster
    NPEXzYB.jpg

    Well, okay, this game Quinn decided to harass out Wu at his level 1 blue start so he was super behind, then I went top and got her the kill up there on Shyvana to make up for the lost experience

    What is your secret? I can never seem to get Tiger/FF Udyr to work out.
    For one thing, if you're building FF, you should in Phoenix or Godyr, not Tiger main. I had this discussion half a thread ago or so, but basically Tiger scales hardest off pure AD and gets free AS. FF is a magic damage and AS focused item and though it has a little AD, I maintain that you're better off going Lizard if you were doing Tiger jungle. (And hell, if you're doing Tiger jungle, at that point you consider going Doran's Blade out of the jungle instead)

    Beyond that, if you're Tiger, you need to abuse his early game and smash someone to get ahead, you can't afford to try and powerfarm (which he's worse at than Phoenix) and stack your Flare up.

    These days if I'm on Udyr, I generally do a modified Godyr and go R, W, E, R, Q. R > W > E > Q. (Instead of Trick's R Q E, because I want the safety at 3 instead of the damage)

    edit: Also if we're getting dumpstered pre-4, I abort out of Godyr and potentially abort even out of Flare and do pure Phoenix and potentially even Golem and just go pure tank and cause problems in lanes constantly

    @PrjctD_Captain‌
    I uploaded that game here: http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/4055496/
    Just if you wanted to watch and see if there's anything you can learn. But Josh is also correct, you should probably just watch Trick2G. If you can put up with his personality, you can learn some things, but also take some things with a grain of salt. For example, he duos a lot and duos with Sirchez, who mains Nasus, so they can win a lot of games by just taking it late, manipulating waves, and letting either Udyr or Nasus backdoor and murder turrets. If you don't have a backpocket Nasus, you do have a little less security taking it late, so just keep that in mind.

    XNnw6Gk.jpg
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    imdointhisimdointhis I should actually stop doin' this. Registered User regular
    never not be destroying them with lazers basically.

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    RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    It pleases me greatly that Vel'Koz support is getting so much respect. I saw it in a few games just a couple days after he was released and was very impressed. I even posted my observations here. I'd really like him to become a staple support, because I do love his kit.

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    dasnoobdasnoob ArkansasRegistered User regular
    Is queue time on team builder still crazy? I was wanting to get some mid/adc practice tonight.

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    skyknytskyknyt Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I never had a queue longer than a minute for marks in team builder. Mid, well, that's a different story.

    Tycho wrote:
    [skyknyt's writing] is like come kind of code that, when comprehended, unfolds into madness in the mind of the reader.
    PSN: skyknyt, Steam: skyknyt, Blizz: skyknyt#1160
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    CyrenicCyrenic Registered User regular
    Roz wrote: »
    It pleases me greatly that Vel'Koz support is getting so much respect. I saw it in a few games just a couple days after he was released and was very impressed. I even posted my observations here. I'd really like him to become a staple support, because I do love his kit.

    I've also been impressed whenever I go up against a Vel support. His Q's are *so annoying* to dodge. I'm pretty sure you can make ADC's miss lots of CS just by the threat of Vel's weirdo skillshot.

    And then he hits 6 and his burst is super dangerous and he can use it from really far away.

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    SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    The only time I've seen Vel'Koz support not be impactful was when @BillGates was the ADC

    o snap

    XNnw6Gk.jpg
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    JookieJookie Registered User regular
    I've only gone against Vel'koz support once.

    At first it was not bad, he wasn't impactful. After dodging out basically every Q I finally got hit by one after a handful of levels and it was straight up nightmarish from then on.

    butts
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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    I would've thought Vel'koz would be really good against Morg?

    He is more of a skill match up than say Zyra because he can't harass through creeps. His lack of mobility means that a good root can end his day. If Morg is set for damage velkoz will wreck her. But if Morg is set for tank Morg will have a good laning phase. Because she can punish him every time he gets out from creeps unless the enemy ad is very good. This is especially true post 6 where Morg can easily all in from pretty much anywhere (she is faster than him and her ult slows) so you can just walk up to him and ult.

    But for the most part it's a skill matchup that favors Velkoz just because of his damage. Morg has to win the matchup or Velkoz wins by default. It is worth noting that post lane phase Morg has an advantage in an engage/pick comp while Velkoz wants to be in a poke comp/AOE comp. This makes the matchup more dependent on the rest of your teams synergy. Vel is not like Zyra whose disengage is so strong that it beats morg out of laning phase too.

    wbBv3fj.png
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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    I just see support Vel'koz as the bullet hell version of Zyra. They're both great but I prefer Zyra for her ult.

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    AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    2 games off promos again.

    The main thing that determines if you will win a game in Bronze 5 is whether your team has fewer shitlords on it than their team.
    The Ender wrote: »
    Raslin wrote: »
    Yeah, I feel somewhat stuck at my elo, partially because I don't play champs that typically can hard carry. Bit my play style is more of the "Be in the back doing damage, and not dying". On the rare times I get adc, I feel much more impactful.

    Of course, the main reasons are drunk ranked, I don't roam enough, and I'm awful at keeping my eye on the mini map.

    I feel stuck because of all of the random nonsense that happens, between smurfs, AFKs, ragequitters, etc.

    People seem to forget how prevalent that is at Bronze / Silver.


    Games at that elo are decided most often by coin toss - after that, they are decided by the players with the lowest skill cap, because those players create a gold distribution that so heavily favors the opposing team that no amount of talent can overcome it (especially in solo queue, where people give up & rage the moment anything goes wrong).
    What?
    - No.

    Here's how you win bronze. Go top or mid or jungle. IF top or mid win your lane, go to the other lane and win that too. you should win your lane because the enemy doesn't understand threat ranges or when to go b. You should have a massive advantage because when you kill them you quickly push your minions to their tower to deny them exp before going b. You win because you are last hitting better than your opponent. You win the match because even though your bot lane have fed 4 kills by 10 minutes you've pushed your tower down, got three kills top and ganked mid twice causing your team to have two winning lanes. You win because you are pushing lanes instead of standing uselessly in mid for 5 minutes with the rest of your team.

    There are games that are impossible to win but they are a lot rarer than you imagine at b5.

    I'm at gold 3 and I played a bronze 5 match a while back and won a 2v1 lane as Vlad. You can always win.

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
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    TeknoXITeknoXI Registered User regular
    Max Q > W > E in terms of skill order. The E (stun/knockup) doesn't always land, but W can queue up twice. So I like the damage more. People don't expect it.

    Dagger start > Dagger upgrade + ward > Sightstone > Codex > Final Dagger upgrade > Mobi boots

    I personally like Rylai's as a first major item. The insane about of CC (slow) you can dish out is ridiculous. Kite for days. Followed by a Twin Shadows (Spooky ghosts) for more movespeed and slows. Rest of the items is flexible.

    League of Legends: TeknoXI
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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Here is how you win in bronze

    1) pick anything

    2) play anything

    3) carry the shit out of the game because you're not bronze.

    Ok it's true that some games you will lose but all things equal if you are not bronze then you will get out. You can do it from any role but it's probably easiest from jungle or support(there is a reason that support density rises as you increase in skill level) though they will take the longest time to do it

    Ok but seriously here are the things you can do for freelo.

    1) buy potions. Mana potions, hp potions. Buy them when you go back. Fucking buy lots of them and then use them and shove the enemy laner to hell because you have 750 extra hp and 500 extra MP for 300 gold.

    2) buy sweeper and sight trinket. Second back every time change to sweeper as a solo laner or support, but blue trinket as adc as soon as laning is over. Buy a green ward to go with your sweeper. Upgrade your sweeper at level 9-11 it's super effective.

    3) buy pink wards. No seriously buy them. One in your jungle one, hold one in your inventory if against Rengar, khazix, alkali, or vayne.

    4) put wards in lane so you can see enemy rotations.

    5) end laning phase and force your team to group. I can't tel you how many games are won by the mid laner alone because they decided to follow the jungler who was going bottom which turns into a 4 man gank into double kill, tower, and dragon.

    6) get side lanes pushing in your favor before grouping. That doesn't mean push, it means getting a 1-2 creep advantage. The strongest wave you can make is caused by auto attacking a single melee minion once (so your creeps kill it first but only slightly) then leaving. The easiest way to do it is to clear the ranged minions. Remember to pressure after this.

    wbBv3fj.png
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    RaslinRaslin Registered User regular
    How to get out of bronze: NSFW(Never stop farming, win).

    I cant url good so add me on steam anyways steamcommunity.com/id/Raslin

    3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    dasnoob wrote: »
    Is queue time on team builder still crazy? I was wanting to get some mid/adc practice tonight.

    Pretty dependent on your team builder/normal MMR and requested role. It's not obvious but sometimes you can get into a full group faster if you try finding other groups instead of just sitting in the first one that the queue places you in. They are working on fixes to that which should alleviate that, though -- making it so that groups that are closer to full are prioritized when the queue adds people to groups.

    I can get into a team builder game less quickly than if I just did a blind pick normal, but I'm guaranteed to play the role that I want so I think it's a pretty fair trade.

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    PrjctD_CaptainPrjctD_Captain iFizzRegistered User regular
    Spectrum wrote: »
    Spectrum wrote: »
    With all the Vi games, had to check: Nope, Udyr is still a monster
    NPEXzYB.jpg

    Well, okay, this game Quinn decided to harass out Wu at his level 1 blue start so he was super behind, then I went top and got her the kill up there on Shyvana to make up for the lost experience

    What is your secret? I can never seem to get Tiger/FF Udyr to work out.
    For one thing, if you're building FF, you should in Phoenix or Godyr, not Tiger main. I had this discussion half a thread ago or so, but basically Tiger scales hardest off pure AD and gets free AS. FF is a magic damage and AS focused item and though it has a little AD, I maintain that you're better off going Lizard if you were doing Tiger jungle. (And hell, if you're doing Tiger jungle, at that point you consider going Doran's Blade out of the jungle instead)

    Beyond that, if you're Tiger, you need to abuse his early game and smash someone to get ahead, you can't afford to try and powerfarm (which he's worse at than Phoenix) and stack your Flare up.

    These days if I'm on Udyr, I generally do a modified Godyr and go R, W, E, R, Q. R > W > E > Q. (Instead of Trick's R Q E, because I want the safety at 3 instead of the damage)

    edit: Also if we're getting dumpstered pre-4, I abort out of Godyr and potentially abort even out of Flare and do pure Phoenix and potentially even Golem and just go pure tank and cause problems in lanes constantly

    TpOtidv.jpg

    Don't get me wrong, I need a lot of work. I didn't get FF till about 14 minutes, and dragon was a little scary to just run in and do it at 6, but damn if this isn't fun. Farm all day, go back so you can outright buy full items. I was also afraid that FF > Triforce would leave me lacking in the defenses, but with leveled turtle you deal so much damage it barley matters.

    tl;dr: Thanks a ton for all the advice, it really helped.

    Steam: BrightWing
    PSN: BrightWing13 FFX|V:ARR Bright Asuna
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    RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    There are some heroes that are very good at carrying games that changes a bit as you move up the ratings ladder, probably due to a number of effects.

    That said, here are some that I think are very powerful in their respective brackets:

    Bronze:
    Amumu
    Volibear
    Sejuani
    Annie

    Any character with a hard initiate and good AoE damage is incredibly effective in bronze as people tend to position terribly, and panic when they are low. Thus being able to initiate and put damage on people will win most teamfights.

    Silver:
    Amumu is still strong, others fall off a bit.
    Leona
    Morgana
    Braum

    Silver is where supports really start to shine and the pick potential of these champs is huge, and will often lead to victories. Plus this is still the land of "most tank wins" as ADCs and APCs can't position correctly, and having a beefy frontline will help them do damage.

    Gold:
    Akali
    Katarina
    Fiddlesticks
    Fizz

    Gold is like the uncanny valley of LoL. The mechanics are better, the positioning is better, but the map awareness and objective focus are still incredibly poor. It's also, for some reason, difficult for Gold players to stop these heroes once they start to snowball. In plat, people would buy pink wards, stack their CCs correctly, and save their flashes for their ults. Effectively shutting down these heroes. But in Gold, the players are good enough to initiate and kill with these heroes, but defensively, thy aren't seemingly good enough to protect themselves from them.

    Plat:
    Not sure as I haven't climbed out of it ever, but if I were to hazzard a guess, anyone who can control the map so:

    Pantheon
    TF
    Teleport Tops

This discussion has been closed.