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[eSports] Insanity. International e-Sports Federation Says: No girls allowed!

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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited July 2014
    What the fuck is the IeSF championship, and what is the Finnish whatsamawhosit?

    I am steeped in eSports, I regularly watch competitive LoL, SC2, Dota 2 and fighting games...I've never once heard of either of these organizations. I don't think either is representative of eSports (despite their fancy names).

    I understand that a lot of you may only read about eSports when these populist anger fests pop up, but these people are nobodies. The "IeSF" or whatever the fuck they are, aren't anywhere near globally standardizing eSports, and even if that goal were to be met, it wouldn't be from some nobody organization no one's ever heard of. If one of the big players (ESL, Valve, DreamHack, Riot, Blizzard) didn't make and sanction the statement, it's hot air.

    I have no doubt Blizzard, once they learn of this, will handle the situation. Arguably the best Zerg player in the world right now is transgender, and Blizzard has been super positive about that.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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    LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    Yeah I've never heard of IeSF either (for a second I thought they were a French company, le SF. That's embarrassing). I've heard of ESF, but that's something completely different and doesn't do much of anything (especially recently).

    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    IeSF is a Korean organization that basically wants to be the FIFA or NFL or whatever of eSports. They mostly operate in Europe and Asia which is why you have not heard of them.

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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited July 2014
    IeSF is a Korean organization that basically wants to be the FIFA or NFL or whatever of eSports. They mostly operate in Europe and Asia which is why you have not heard of them.

    No, I haven't heard of them because they run nothing major. They are a Korean eSports organization that isn't KeSPA and thus has zero hold on any of the major or semi-major games, they aren't one of the big names in fighting game tournaments so they don't even create people who might be contenders to show up at Evo respectably (and you can play a frankly sloppy Hulk on a gamepad and do well at Evo in (U)MvC3,, as evidenced by the fact an 8 year old kid did just that), and they've done zero interesting things until now.

    I'm not saying this isn't bad, but it's disingenuous to say that a shitty C-string eSports organization that wants to topple Kespa is unknown because I don't live in the country. I wouldn't know about them if I were there, just like you probably don't know the name of your local roller derby organization. They're being shitty people, but I don't think that "eSports insanity" is the best description of this debacle.

    milski on
    I ate an engineer
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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited July 2014
    IeSF is a Korean organization that basically wants to be the FIFA or NFL or whatever of eSports. They mostly operate in Europe and Asia which is why you have not heard of them.

    No, I haven't heard of them because they run nothing important and have no power. Most big eSports stuff happens in Europe and Asia.

    They. Are. Nobodies. As @milski‌ said, that doesn't make what they said any less ridiculous...but taking what one nobody organization that has no power, and runs no big tournaments, said and painting all of eSports with that brush is disingenuous and nothing but populist fervor. Their entire claim to fame is that they said a shitty thing and they have eSports in their name.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    Zxerol wrote: »
    Nobody wrote: »
    Somebody on the Blizzard Hearthstone forums started a thread about this. I'd suggest not reading it if you are worried about your blood pressure.

    Dawg, you can't link to something and tell people not to click on it. People gonna click on it! Like I just did!

    Because I'm a dumbass!

    Just a disclaimer so I'm not responsible for any resulting medical emergencies. :stuck_out_tongue:

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    APODionysusAPODionysus Registered User regular
    Here's a question:

    The linked article tosses out the word "legitimate" in terms of eSports wanting to be seen as legitimate sports .

    What does that even mean? At what point do they become "legitimate"? What's the qualification in these peoples (or anyone else for that matter) for legitimacy? Seen as legitimate by who? Who's the judge?

    Because I have no idea. I've never seen it defined. Obviously these people feel it's not legitimate now so what would it take?

    Is legitimacy tied to viewership numbers? Or sponsor/ad revenue? Is the cutoff matching those numbers produced by Soccer/Baseball/Hockey/Whathaveyou? Because that's likely never going to happen so it's an insane goal.

    Is it perhaps tied to the popularity of the format as a percentage of the over all "gamer" population? This feels more sensible, but then you have the issue of the nebulous definition of "gamer." How many more regular viewers are needed? How many more events? No one seems to know! They just know it's not there yet!

    I posit that eSports (as well as things like Magic: The Gathering) are ALREADY legitimate. Massive tournaments are held featuring highly skilled players and viewed by a passionate fan base. Some players even make a living off of it! That there aren't highlights of Trump or Reid Duke on Sportscenter doesn't mean jack shit.

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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    815165 wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Well, so much for e-sports being taken seriously.

    I mean, "being beaten by a girl would upset people" is an actual justification by the organizing body? Good fucking lord.

    not sure you read the article

    I dunno, it seems to mostly fit. That said, it's the reason for the decision, which is different from it being the justification for it.

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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited July 2014
    Not at all? I mean, it's still a stupid, but "The main event is men only, so a woman qualifying would cause conflict and thus we aren't allowing them in the qualifying tournament" is 100% divorced from "women are not allowed because people might get salty if they lose to a girl."

    The two are not remotely similar. I also have no idea how the reason for and the justification for something can be different, but I would prefer to remain ignorant of that.

    milski on
    I ate an engineer
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    B:LB:L I've done worse. Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    What the fuck is the IeSF championship, and what is the Finnish whatsamawhosit?

    I am steeped in eSports, I regularly watch competitive LoL, SC2, Dota 2 and fighting games...I've never once heard of either of these organizations. I don't think either is representative of eSports (despite their fancy names).
    #NotAlleSports

    Kidding aside, I'm expecting Blizzard to bring the hammer down on these fools.

    10mvrci.png click for Anime chat
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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Anyone can give themselves a catchy name like the International eSports Federation, try to setup an event because they want to "legitimize" whatever, and then say something stupid and get press time.

    eSports neither needs, or at this point in my eyes wants, IeSF's help to legitimize anything (I think a 10m prize pool for a Dota tournament is legitimate enough). They certainly don't speak for how I feel about inclusion in eSports, and I think they are getting far more press time than they ever deserved. I'm also fairly confident they don't speak for how Blizzard, Valve or Riot feel about inclusion in eSports.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    It's not like they literally don't represent eSports at all. According to the Wikipedia page the organization has been running tournaments for years now. I'm not sure what it would be for an organization that calls itself an eSports organization and runs eSports tournaments not to be an eSports organization. Maybe it's one of the smaller ones or something but it's not like someone bought a Geocities domain and slapped up some misogynist stuff. In any case they've now gone back on the idea and their previous "male only" divisions are open to everyone.

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    chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Score one for internet nerd rage.

    steam_sig.png
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    TommattTommatt Registered User regular
    There's been 3 women who have competed in the PGA, and golf has had a pretty sexist history.

    http://golftips.golfsmith.com/lpga-women-played-pga-tour-20647.html

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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    What the hell is wrong with this world?

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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    LanrutconLanrutcon The LabyrinthRegistered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    What the hell is wrong with this world?

    Boobs scare people.

    Capture.jpg~original
    Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    What the hell is wrong with this world?

    Boobs scare people.

    Breasts are inappropriate for children.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Here's a question:

    The linked article tosses out the word "legitimate" in terms of eSports wanting to be seen as legitimate sports .

    What does that even mean? At what point do they become "legitimate"? What's the qualification in these peoples (or anyone else for that matter) for legitimacy? Seen as legitimate by who? Who's the judge?

    Because I have no idea. I've never seen it defined. Obviously these people feel it's not legitimate now so what would it take?

    Is legitimacy tied to viewership numbers? Or sponsor/ad revenue? Is the cutoff matching those numbers produced by Soccer/Baseball/Hockey/Whathaveyou? Because that's likely never going to happen so it's an insane goal.

    Is it perhaps tied to the popularity of the format as a percentage of the over all "gamer" population? This feels more sensible, but then you have the issue of the nebulous definition of "gamer." How many more regular viewers are needed? How many more events? No one seems to know! They just know it's not there yet!

    I posit that eSports (as well as things like Magic: The Gathering) are ALREADY legitimate. Massive tournaments are held featuring highly skilled players and viewed by a passionate fan base. Some players even make a living off of it! That there aren't highlights of Trump or Reid Duke on Sportscenter doesn't mean jack shit.

    (Likely unpopular opinion time)

    I'm less likely to acknowledge something whose very medium can change so frequently at any given time as ever being a "true" sport - i.e. crappy programming, poor balance, or changing mechanics; while player skill is of course a large factor in winning a competition, it becomes less able for viewers to tell to what extent imbalances or differences in the game itself at the time contributed to their victory/defeat compared to the legitimate skill of the players. And these are particularly exasperating because they cannot simply be resolved by just "practicing more" or "getting more fit"; they're forces fundamentally influencing the outcome of the game that an entirely external party was responsible for(the developers).

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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Score one for internet nerd rage.

    That fact that this story was plasted to every gaming news site on the internet and people were notifying all the sponsors probably helped.
    Yay for positive change! OP updated with a note about the reversal!

    // Steam: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    why was this even the policy in the first place, I wonder

    worried that a girl would someday be better than boys at videogames or something?

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    blizzard had a pretty good but brief statement
    Blizzard has been in contact with the organization about the segregation imposed upon tournaments of its card game Hearthstone and understood that it updated the rules "to make it clear that their Hearthstone tournament will be open to all players."

    "One of our goals with eSports is to ensure that there's a vibrant and also inclusive community around our games," Blizzard said in a statement provided to Polygon. "We do not allow the use of our games in tournaments that do not support this, and are working with our partners to ensure they share the same goal."

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    MarikirMarikir Registered User regular
    The cynic in me kinda wonders if there wasn't some sort of...hope that this story would get picked up and go viral. People (like me) who had no knowledge of the existence of this organization now know of it. It's gotten itself into the discussion of eSports.

    The whole "Any press is good press" maxim keeps popping up in my head.


    Did anyone think that this would have flown for even a day once it was wider known? Blizzard itself would have come down like a ton of Taurens if they'd tried to keep to their guns.

    I hate that I've gotten to that point, that the entire drama around this seems too damn predictable. Dumb Ass Policy -> Internet Reaction -> Company Retraction -> People know they exist.



    steam_sig.png "Hiding in plain sight." PSN/XBL: Marikir
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    JutranjoJutranjo Registered User regular
    This korean IESF is a nobody in esports.

    MLG, ESL, Dreamhack and others plus various smaller organizers that do only one game but still do big prizes with 10-100k viewers on stream. Those matter.

    This isn't a publicity stunt, it's some stupid Korean org like Kespa with government like bureaucracy and inertia.

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