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Dungeonings and Dragaerans and Labyrinths and Wyverns etc.

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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Honestly last I heard about 5e it was apparently pretty bad, have they fixed some of the issues from the early beta?

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    DMACDMAC Come at me, bro! Moderator Mod Emeritus
    I don't know much about the balance between the classes but 5e really didn't seem all that different from 4e to me other than stripping out the sorts of things that made grid-based combat necessary in 4e. This also means that the martial classes seem to basically be down to moving and making basic attacks in combat with them getting advantages like extra attacks per round as they level up.

    I'm sort of torn. I've been playing in a bi-weekly 4e campaign for about 3 years now and although we've been following an ongoing storyline (The 2e campaign "Night Below"), our party doesn't really spend a lot of time roleplaying. We still make decisions and explore and whatnot but the bulk of the time is spent on the combat encounters. The whole tactical element of 4e seems way more interesting than the more straightforward move/attack/move of 5e.

    On the other hand, the fact that we've been playing more of a tactical wargame makes me wonder how a more imagination-based combat might affect the way we play our characters. I literally can't remember the last time somebody tried something that wasn't a power or something specifically allowed by the rules.

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    Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited July 2014
    play something that actually encourages theatre of the mind-style gameplay like dungeon world or 13A or even WFRP3e.

    Not Next's half-assed "This is absolutely not made for grid-based tactical wargame fights despite everything being measured in 5ft increments"

    Der Waffle Mous on
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    play something that actually encourages theatre of the mind-style gameplay like dungeon world or 13A or even WFRP3e.

    Not Next's half-assed "This is absolutely not made for grid-based tactical wargame fights despite everything being measured in 5ft increments"

    This is all D&D has ever been, basically. I am not sure why people would expect anything different at this point.

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    Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    Penny press (the game that won cards against humanity's tabletop death match) has three days to go if you guys are interested?

    He says, hoping we hit the final stretch goal.

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    You guys I think I might start a 13th age campaign on roll20 this year

    Who would be interested in playing?

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    Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    play something that actually encourages theatre of the mind-style gameplay like dungeon world or 13A or even WFRP3e.

    Not Next's half-assed "This is absolutely not made for grid-based tactical wargame fights despite everything being measured in 5ft increments"

    This is all D&D has ever been, basically. I am not sure why people would expect anything different at this point.

    Well yeah, 1e had everything measured in inches, and 3e even came with a fold-out grid in the back and diagrams explaining how various uses of LOS worked, and pretty much every depiction of tabletop RPGs in fiction involved miniatures on a board.

    But 4E came out and then suddenly miniatures were the devil and D&D never required grids before wharbargle.

    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
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    Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    initial gamer-xp dot com 5e report: Is is the D&D-iest D&D ever.

    We spent a whole lot of time just roleplaying and not actually using the rules much.

    And then when we got into a fight with a giant snake, the fighter nearly got killed in a single hit and then I, The Wizard, ended the fight in a single action as soon as I got initiative.

    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    play something that actually encourages theatre of the mind-style gameplay like dungeon world or 13A or even WFRP3e.

    Not Next's half-assed "This is absolutely not made for grid-based tactical wargame fights despite everything being measured in 5ft increments"

    This is all D&D has ever been, basically. I am not sure why people would expect anything different at this point.

    Well yeah, 1e had everything measured in inches, and 3e even came with a fold-out grid in the back and diagrams explaining how various uses of LOS worked, and pretty much every depiction of tabletop RPGs in fiction involved miniatures on a board.

    But 4E came out and then suddenly miniatures were the devil and D&D never required grids before wharbargle.

    People have very selective memories. Wasn't it in the days of 3.5 where they heavily started pushing their miniatures line and even had a pure tactics game you could play with them with no roleplaying involved at all? I think it was even just straight called D&D Miniatures.

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    ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    That's unfortunate, well more time to familiarize your players with the rules isn't all bad, especially for Eclipse Phase.

    Speaking of Eclipse Phase, I'm trying to think up a name for a Neo-Chimp character I have. Would it be more appropriate to just give him a normal name, I've heard naming after a hero as a suggestion, I was also considering (because he's a Mercurial) trying to choose a name that's more authentically chimp, but I wouldn't know where to start for a name like that.

    Stinky the Faceripper.

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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    just about everything lobbed at 4e can be lobbed against 3x with the exception of the complains about classes all having powers and such.

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    DMACDMAC Come at me, bro! Moderator Mod Emeritus
    The early buzz I heard about 5e gave me the impression that they were doing more to make the classes feel different. I don't really feel like there's much of that in what I've seen so far.

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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    I saw that but I have not been paying attention to it because I saw Monte Cook was on it in some fashion

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    Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    DMAC wrote: »
    The early buzz I heard about 5e gave me the impression that they were doing more to make the classes feel different. I don't really feel like there's much of that in what I've seen so far.

    Well, you're certainly not going to mistake a fighter for a wizard.

    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
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    VanguardVanguard But now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    play something that actually encourages theatre of the mind-style gameplay like dungeon world or 13A or even WFRP3e.

    Not Next's half-assed "This is absolutely not made for grid-based tactical wargame fights despite everything being measured in 5ft increments"

    This is all D&D has ever been, basically. I am not sure why people would expect anything different at this point.

    Well yeah, 1e had everything measured in inches, and 3e even came with a fold-out grid in the back and diagrams explaining how various uses of LOS worked, and pretty much every depiction of tabletop RPGs in fiction involved miniatures on a board.

    But 4E came out and then suddenly miniatures were the devil and D&D never required grids before wharbargle.

    People have very selective memories. Wasn't it in the days of 3.5 where they heavily started pushing their miniatures line and even had a pure tactics game you could play with them with no roleplaying involved at all? I think it was even just straight called D&D Miniatures.

    mlRqBYt1-6u4aYTEhhYW6tA.jpg

    Yeah, towards the very end of they released this book. It was definitely a staging ground for the direction of 4th.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Yeah, the miniatures game was pretty fun. You see a lot of it showing up in 4E.

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    gtrmpgtrmp Registered User regular
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »

    People have very selective memories. Wasn't it in the days of 3.5 where they heavily started pushing their miniatures line and even had a pure tactics game you could play with them with no roleplaying involved at all? I think it was even just straight called D&D Miniatures.

    mlRqBYt1-6u4aYTEhhYW6tA.jpg

    Yeah, towards the very end of they released this book. It was definitely a staging ground for the direction of 4th.

    The Miniatures Handbook came out during the transition from 3.0e to 3.5e and was mainly meant to promote the D & D Minis game that was out at the time.

    Of course the 3e-era D&D Miniatures game shouldn't be confused with the 3e-era D&D Chainmail miniatures game. Totally different, and definitely not at all representative of the game's focus, no sir.

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    HawkstoneHawkstone Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered User regular
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    play something that actually encourages theatre of the mind-style gameplay like dungeon world or 13A or even WFRP3e.

    Not Next's half-assed "This is absolutely not made for grid-based tactical wargame fights despite everything being measured in 5ft increments"

    This is all D&D has ever been, basically. I am not sure why people would expect anything different at this point.

    Well yeah, 1e had everything measured in inches, and 3e even came with a fold-out grid in the back and diagrams explaining how various uses of LOS worked, and pretty much every depiction of tabletop RPGs in fiction involved miniatures on a board.

    But 4E came out and then suddenly miniatures were the devil and D&D never required grids before wharbargle.

    People have very selective memories. Wasn't it in the days of 3.5 where they heavily started pushing their miniatures line and even had a pure tactics game you could play with them with no roleplaying involved at all? I think it was even just straight called D&D Miniatures.

    mlRqBYt1-6u4aYTEhhYW6tA.jpg

    Yeah, towards the very end of they released this book. It was definitely a staging ground for the direction of 4th.

    I think my groups were mostly hold outs through 3.5 still doing it mostly in our heads with the occasional "lay it out with dice" method going on when people couldnt really grasp positioning by description or the number of moving pieces got to high. It wasnt until Pathfinder that I was really introduced to going all in on the grid maps and mini's. This was really purely by coincidence of finding a new gaming group, but I would say since Pathfinder is realy an extention of 3/3.5 that yeah D&D really went all in on the rules being designed around mini's well before 4th. People may have blurred the lines though, because like me their groups managed to hold out for a while.

    Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    I'd argue the biggest "transitional" book released during D&D 3.5 is Tome of Battle.

    I think that book really laid down where they were going in terms of next editions.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Melding wrote: »
    just about everything lobbed at 4e can be lobbed against 3x with the exception of the complains about classes all having powers and such.

    Ehh...

    They are different systems that opened themselves up to different complaints.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    my eyes glazed over 4 lines into that chart, and then my mind shifted to what all the non-decker players are doing during the decker's matrix run. Bathroom break? snack run? knitting a sweater?

    keep in mind that it it was made quicker and easier

    previously you could write the great american novel while somebody was decking

    Is this to do with all that augmented reality weirdness or did they drop that

    It was a good idea but not implemented very well so I wouldn't be sad to see it off

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    So... Recap of what happened Sunday night during the second session of my Star Wars d20 game!

    * The players spent 90 minutes trying to come up with a plan to capture a Muun banker. They finally settled on hitting on his receptionist Megan over the phone (as one of the characters had built up a rapport with her). So he starts lying to her that he just got hired in the mail-room for the bank and starts rolling some Bluff checks. He doesn't do very well... At one point I just look at him and with stern eyes ask:

    Me: Kyle, where are you calling from?
    Kyle: What do you mean? The phone.
    Me: Where are you calling from though?
    Kyle: The... The phone... OH GOD NO!!!

    And at this point Kyle hangs-up the phone because he realized that he has been calling this receptionist from the Republic station far, far away from her planet.

    And as I warned them...

    The Players: Dammit! DAMMIT!!! He told us it'd happen! We'd spend two hours on a plan and he'd destroy it in two minutes! GOD DAMMIT!!!

    * So at this point another player decides, being clones with the same general voice/accents, that he'll call and try to smooth this matter over with Megan the Muun receptionist. He rolls horribly on his Bluff checks and Megan rolls super high on her Sense Motive check. The game is afoot and the players are not doing well! She plays along with them and convinces them to come to a dinner date at her boss' office (the boss they want to kidnap). So the players spend time deciding on equipment and then head off toward the planet.

    And this point Megan has got the jump on them, she has chosen a secure & malleable environment for her ambush and the players are super confident everything will go well (well, all but one of them...).

    * The players get to the planet and the restaurant just in time. All the players are ready for the plan except for Elliot's girlfriend, Kendall. She just keeps saying, "Guys this feels real bad. I don't think we should do this. We are not prepared...." But they don't listen to her and they push Kyle out of the car, with no weapons, and send in Tristan as his back-up. They head into the restaurant in some disguised outfits (Tristan's clone has a gift for fashion) but they haven't disguised their faces so they still look like every clone trooper EVER! Kyle spots Megan and goes to have dinner with her. While eating with her he lies, so he rolls some more Bluff checks. He bombs them... Megan on the other hand makes some great Sense Motive checks and even some of her lies are amazing rolls. At this point I am going to elevate Megan to a campaign long villain because she is just so effective.

    Tristan stays at the bar and sends out vibes while he observes the date from afar (none of the players thought to set-up equipment like comm systems to listen in). While at the bar he starts chatting up the bartender, who is actually the banker they are supposed to capture. But because of every Spot check being a shitty roll Tristan doesn't recognize him.

    Finally the bartender walks up to Kyle & Megan and spits on Kyle's face, this triggering the entire restaurant to pull out blaster pistols as he has done the Moriarty thing from Sherlock Holmes 2 and filled every seat with a hired thug. Tristan has no time to suffer fools and reaches for his blaster pistol but is shot with ten stun blasts, he gets dropped. Kyle tries to lie and say his hologram tech is actually a bomb. He rolls a Bluff check AND DOES TERRBLY!!! So he tells the banker to go fuck himself and Kyle is shot with stun blasts.

    Meanwhile, outside in the car, the rest of the party hears all the blaster fire and prepares to launch into the restaurant.

    And that was our session....

    The single best part was while I tried hinting towards them that they could try to use the banker's business rival to ensnare him.

    Elliot: Alright, so maybe we could bribe the rival into setting up a business meeting and he'll grab the banker during that?
    The Party: Yeah, yeah...
    Tristan: No, no, no... Do not do this guys. I'm telling you... *pointing at me* This guy is going to fuck us over! The rival is going to betray us the moment he can. He has no reason to do it. In fact the rival is probably going to use us to set-up an easy murder for the banker. He's probably going to dress up a thug in clone trooper armor and kill the banker, thus framing us for the kill.
    Me: *slowly smiling*
    Tristan: SEE!!!! I KNEW IT!!!!!

    Which is astounding because that was my plan, beat for beat.

    Basically playing with my best friend Tristan is like Littlefinger & Vayrs from Game of Thrones.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Oh man, I've been burned by the "meet a bad guy in a restaurant, he's brought more people than we expected" twist. It doesn't help when he's an Eldar with cloaking tech.

    I got out of there with a shiruken in the leg, and I think my ally was beaten almost to death.

    On the plus side, the whole reason we were there was to get ambushed. My thinking was this: We were investigating a murder, and we had a shiruken from the corpse. All we need to do was get shot by the guy we suspected so that we could do a ballistic comparison.

    So yeah, the plan worked...

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Do you think it's trademarked?Registered User regular
    Oh man, I've been burned by the "meet a bad guy in a restaurant, he's brought more people than we expected" twist. It doesn't help when he's an Eldar with cloaking tech.

    I got out of there with a shiruken in the leg, and I think my ally was beaten almost to death.

    On the plus side, the whole reason we were there was to get ambushed. My thinking was this: We were investigating a murder, and we had a shiruken from the corpse. All we need to do was get shot by the guy we suspected so that we could do a ballistic comparison.

    So yeah, the plan worked...

    Wait.

    You...were trying to find out if the Eldar was guilty?

    He's a dirty Xeno! He's guilty of crimes against the Imperium just by existing!

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Best. Birthday Present. Ever.

    Say sup to Saleem my Holy Vindicator of Sarenrae.
    D06104B2-C02F-4349-ABD3-F684E9008927_zpszxcnzib3.jpg

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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Well yeah, but we were working for a Rogue Trader who wanted to sort it out without damaging their trade options.

    The other group who were running the session (our GM was handling two groups with the same plot) decided to just confront the guy and offer to frame his rival. They got paid thousands, we got bemused looks when we handed in our report.

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    (session)
    Did you load your players' dice? It looks like they failed, and terribly, literally every single roll of consequence in the entire session.

    It's awesome when that leads to hilarity instead of the usual TPK :)

    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
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    Rear Admiral ChocoRear Admiral Choco I wanna be an owl, Jerry! Owl York CityRegistered User regular
    Usually my one buddy does great on his rolls to hack the Matrix in my Shadowrun game and I'll find I generally roll pretty low, but I hosted a one-off session with him over irc since he couldn't make it to one of our group games at my place the other weekend. He gets a hit or two on most of his rolls, and then I roll something stupid like 8 hits on a pool of 12 dice. This happens consistently over the course of the session. Somehow he manages to get through his objectives and lifts the data he's looking for, but not before a ton of IC slams him and his buddy down good. The session ended with him and his buddy desperately jacking out of the Matrix and having their hired goon/getaway driver floor it as building security traced their physical location to be right at the side of the office building.

    The next day was our next group session, and I'm recounting how badly the rolls were going for him to the rest of the group. We're all having a laugh and later, the first opposed roll that comes up, I roll amazingly high and my buddy again rolls terribly. We traded dice. Didn't help. We may be considering heading to a casino near by and loading me up with some money for the trip.

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    Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
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    VanguardVanguard But now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    i wish that article separated their opinions of the two people upthread and their impressions of next, honestly

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    WheatBun01WheatBun01 Face It, Tiger Registered User regular
    So - I've got a new party, level 4, what are some good adventures to run for them for 4th Ed. D&D?

    I'm open to buying a module, but if there is anything rad available on D&D insider or somewhere else that'd be even better. I've just not got a lot of time to plan for this weeks session.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I've got a friend who is planning on running some Shadowrun soon. As I am far more experienced in the roleplaying games department, he asked me for some tips on it.

    Thing is, I ain't even looked at Shadowrun in several years and an edition.

    So what're some good new GM tips there?

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    Darth WaiterDarth Waiter Elrond Hubbard Mordor XenuRegistered User regular
    One of the people in my Scion gaming group has a summoned pet that swims through the earth as if it were water and is essentially a talking version of Jaws ... dude's got a landshark.

    So, just finished one combat where Jaws bit a man's leg completely off and our group's medic is trying to save the poor bastard's life.

    "Wait, how much of his leg is gone?"

    "All of it, Jaws basically went through the middle of his pelvis."

    "Aww, damn, Jaws bit his dick off. Let him die, dude, he's not bouncing back from that."

    "I can save him! I even have a way to put him under a magical compulsion!"

    "To what end?!? Are you gonna make him your sidekick? That's rich, a one-legged Dickless Grayson."

    And as soon as I said it, we had to take a break; I really do know how to derail a game, lemme tell ya.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Guys guys guys! Dave Brookshaw has made his first proper prevew of Mage The Awakening: Fallen World Chronicle!
    Okay, so, “the Fallen World” won by a landslide.

    As most of you have noticed, the Chronicle Books are all named after the story catalyst in their respective games. Not necessarily the antagonist, but the thing that upsets the apple cart, disrupts the lives of the characters and causes a Story. The Strix throw the All Night Society off kilter and into chaos, the Idigam are an Outside Context problem the tribes aren’t properly equipped to fight. The God-Machine sends angels to do its inscrutable bidding, no matter who tries to get in its way.

    When this book was not-exactly announced, but we’d made it known that Werewolf and Mage had both had proposals, the old forum saw a lot of speculation as to what the Chronicle Book would be. The Exarch Chronicle. The Seer Chronicle. The Lower Depths Chronicle. The Tremere Chronicle. The Bound Chronicle.

    From the day I proposed it two years ago, it’s always been The Fallen World Chronicle. Here’s why.

    We imagine that the world we can touch and see is real – more real than pure concepts. The abstract only exists to define the concrete.

    It’s a Lie.

    Everything in the universe is loaded with meaning, abstract properties, and magical symbolism, which modern metaphysics calls Universals and Plato called Forms, but which Mage just calls ‘symbols’. Two cats share the symbol of “cat”, the symbol of “animal”, the symbol of “furred” and so on. One might be “black” and another “white”. Both might be “male”. That’s a physical, real creature with just a few of its’ symbols. In the World of Darkness, some symbols are less well recognized – cats “see the unseen”.

    Plato talked about concrete phenomena being impure reflections of the Forms they embodied. Modern mathematicians work with imaginary numbers, and concede that while you can recognize something as triangular, and even conceive of a triangle, nothing in the physical world is a perfect triangle – there’s always a tiny flaw if you look closely enough. Human beings are all “human”, but everyone’s different; no one person embodies the complete idea of “human.”

    Plato, riffing on how smart he was, led his students on an extended metaphor about people chained up in a cave mistaking the shadows cast on a wall for reality, and how one might break free, interact with the objects casting those shadows, and maybe even take a trip outside to look at the sun before returning back, trying to educate his fellows and being seen as a madman. He was not-very-subtly pointing out that philosophers were much smarter than everyone else, and if people react badly to their wisdom it’s just because they’re still consumed by regard for the world of the senses. He didn’t mean it literally – although he thought that the realm of pure ideas was more “real” than the physical, you can’t see symbols.

    Mages can. They call them “The Supernal World,” and the concrete universe around them “Fallen.” They exist in a liminal state, aware that the World of Darkness is a corrupted image cast by the Supernal’s near-infinite layers of magical symbolism and occult meaning, warped by the Abyss into a Lie. They only have to concentrate to see the Supernal World – every symbol relating to their Awakened Path revealed in the surroundings. If they concentrate their magical awareness even further, the world seems on the brink of turning into a Supernal Realm – Obrimos see the energy barely contained within everything, Acanthus see Time and the push/pull of Destiny – and even glimpse the inhabitants of the Supernal out of the corners of their eyes. Despite their Gnosis, however, mages are trapped in the Fallen Word. They can look at the Supernal, but not touch, and the mind-blowing vistas of Supernal glory some mages Awaken to remain frustratingly out of reach. They can see how the symbols of the Supernal inform the Fallen World, but they can’t become those symbols themselves, and experience the universe as pure magic. Not without Ascending.

    Trapped halfway between Supernal transcendence and comforting, ignorant, Sleep, mages often feel like their lives are journeys – they can’t go back, so they must go forward. They call the symbols they have affinity with their “Paths”, and describe the Mysteries with imagery of labyrinths and prisons. By meditating on imaginary journeys, mages can shut the physical World of Darkness out and shift their consciousness inward, exploring Astral landscapes made of the human soul. Even the Astral Realms are Fallen, though – the Supernal remains past the limits of astral exploration.

    One hard rule of magic: it can’t be fully learned without being experienced. Magic leaves the practitioner transformed, and the journey of encountering the mysterious and exploring it is as important to a mage’s development as whatever rush they feel at the end of the trail when something’s been pinned down and understood. Old, European magical societies started calling what a mage experiences when chasing magic a “Mystery Play” – a story with a symbolic moral at the end. Every Mystery solved is a miniature reminder of the Awakening, when the mage first saw through the Lie.

    And the World of Darkness is teeming with Mysteries.

    Mages can’t shut their Gnosis off. Once your soul is opened to the insights of a Path, it’s always there. Every supernatural event, from the least ghost using its Influences to the greatest cosmic Mysteries, stands out to a mage without trying. They feel an itch, or a faint aura, or a sense of someone walking over their grave.

    Constantly.

    Other supernatural inhabitants of the World of Darkness can pretend that the world’s still “normal” despite their now being a vampire, or Changing. Mages know that the supernatural is nearly omnipresent. Even if they try to live a normal life, they’d soon be provoked by their own sense for the uncanny.

    A rare minority can’t take it. They become Banishers. Most are made of sterner stuff – if they didn’t have a need to know they wouldn’t have Awakened in the first place. Their Paths call them to face the unknown, to understand it, and grow closer to the Supernal. With increasing insight, their powers grow, allowing them to reach for more difficult Mysteries, despite the very real risks.

    A typical Vampire story includes feeding, and asks what you’ll do to make it to tomorrow.
    A typical Werewolf story involves hunting a threat to the Pack’s territory.

    A typical Mage story starts with the characters sensing something. Everything else – the obsession, the hubris, the conflict between rival Orders, the danger of whatever they’re investigating – builds on that. A mage, using her magic to follow a Mystery, risking her sanity and the safety of others in exchange for power.

    Mage isn’t about the Exarchs, the Oracles, Atlantis, or even the Supernal World. Mages have one true obstacle in the way of their ambitions, and it’s the way magic is hidden in the world. The way they’re forced to hunt for power rather than simply grasping it. The way the world isn’t the Supernal Realms, but a material, Shadow, Astral, and Underworld that’s vast, complicated, infuriating, and the only world they’ll ever inhabit bar Ascension. A world they explore and encounter even as they try to find a way out. The common element linking every Mystery, catalyst to Awakening stories.

    The Fallen World.

    Next Week, let’s look at one of two topics that follow on from this: Mage Sight, or The Lie?

    SOOOOO EXCITED

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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Oh man, I wish there were Dragaerans in DnD. Morolan of House Dragon would be a great NPC to deal with.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Oh man, I wish there were Dragaerans in DnD. Morolan of House Dragon would be a great NPC to deal with.

    That's what Rule 0 is for.

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    LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    I finally get to try Edge of the Empire tonight. Pretty excited.

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Guys guys guys! Dave Brookshaw has made his first proper prevew of Mage The Awakening: Fallen World Chronicle!
    Okay, so, “the Fallen World” won by a landslide.

    As most of you have noticed, the Chronicle Books are all named after the story catalyst in their respective games. Not necessarily the antagonist, but the thing that upsets the apple cart, disrupts the lives of the characters and causes a Story. The Strix throw the All Night Society off kilter and into chaos, the Idigam are an Outside Context problem the tribes aren’t properly equipped to fight. The God-Machine sends angels to do its inscrutable bidding, no matter who tries to get in its way.

    When this book was not-exactly announced, but we’d made it known that Werewolf and Mage had both had proposals, the old forum saw a lot of speculation as to what the Chronicle Book would be. The Exarch Chronicle. The Seer Chronicle. The Lower Depths Chronicle. The Tremere Chronicle. The Bound Chronicle.

    From the day I proposed it two years ago, it’s always been The Fallen World Chronicle. Here’s why.

    We imagine that the world we can touch and see is real – more real than pure concepts. The abstract only exists to define the concrete.

    It’s a Lie.

    Everything in the universe is loaded with meaning, abstract properties, and magical symbolism, which modern metaphysics calls Universals and Plato called Forms, but which Mage just calls ‘symbols’. Two cats share the symbol of “cat”, the symbol of “animal”, the symbol of “furred” and so on. One might be “black” and another “white”. Both might be “male”. That’s a physical, real creature with just a few of its’ symbols. In the World of Darkness, some symbols are less well recognized – cats “see the unseen”.

    Plato talked about concrete phenomena being impure reflections of the Forms they embodied. Modern mathematicians work with imaginary numbers, and concede that while you can recognize something as triangular, and even conceive of a triangle, nothing in the physical world is a perfect triangle – there’s always a tiny flaw if you look closely enough. Human beings are all “human”, but everyone’s different; no one person embodies the complete idea of “human.”

    Plato, riffing on how smart he was, led his students on an extended metaphor about people chained up in a cave mistaking the shadows cast on a wall for reality, and how one might break free, interact with the objects casting those shadows, and maybe even take a trip outside to look at the sun before returning back, trying to educate his fellows and being seen as a madman. He was not-very-subtly pointing out that philosophers were much smarter than everyone else, and if people react badly to their wisdom it’s just because they’re still consumed by regard for the world of the senses. He didn’t mean it literally – although he thought that the realm of pure ideas was more “real” than the physical, you can’t see symbols.

    Mages can. They call them “The Supernal World,” and the concrete universe around them “Fallen.” They exist in a liminal state, aware that the World of Darkness is a corrupted image cast by the Supernal’s near-infinite layers of magical symbolism and occult meaning, warped by the Abyss into a Lie. They only have to concentrate to see the Supernal World – every symbol relating to their Awakened Path revealed in the surroundings. If they concentrate their magical awareness even further, the world seems on the brink of turning into a Supernal Realm – Obrimos see the energy barely contained within everything, Acanthus see Time and the push/pull of Destiny – and even glimpse the inhabitants of the Supernal out of the corners of their eyes. Despite their Gnosis, however, mages are trapped in the Fallen Word. They can look at the Supernal, but not touch, and the mind-blowing vistas of Supernal glory some mages Awaken to remain frustratingly out of reach. They can see how the symbols of the Supernal inform the Fallen World, but they can’t become those symbols themselves, and experience the universe as pure magic. Not without Ascending.

    Trapped halfway between Supernal transcendence and comforting, ignorant, Sleep, mages often feel like their lives are journeys – they can’t go back, so they must go forward. They call the symbols they have affinity with their “Paths”, and describe the Mysteries with imagery of labyrinths and prisons. By meditating on imaginary journeys, mages can shut the physical World of Darkness out and shift their consciousness inward, exploring Astral landscapes made of the human soul. Even the Astral Realms are Fallen, though – the Supernal remains past the limits of astral exploration.

    One hard rule of magic: it can’t be fully learned without being experienced. Magic leaves the practitioner transformed, and the journey of encountering the mysterious and exploring it is as important to a mage’s development as whatever rush they feel at the end of the trail when something’s been pinned down and understood. Old, European magical societies started calling what a mage experiences when chasing magic a “Mystery Play” – a story with a symbolic moral at the end. Every Mystery solved is a miniature reminder of the Awakening, when the mage first saw through the Lie.

    And the World of Darkness is teeming with Mysteries.

    Mages can’t shut their Gnosis off. Once your soul is opened to the insights of a Path, it’s always there. Every supernatural event, from the least ghost using its Influences to the greatest cosmic Mysteries, stands out to a mage without trying. They feel an itch, or a faint aura, or a sense of someone walking over their grave.

    Constantly.

    Other supernatural inhabitants of the World of Darkness can pretend that the world’s still “normal” despite their now being a vampire, or Changing. Mages know that the supernatural is nearly omnipresent. Even if they try to live a normal life, they’d soon be provoked by their own sense for the uncanny.

    A rare minority can’t take it. They become Banishers. Most are made of sterner stuff – if they didn’t have a need to know they wouldn’t have Awakened in the first place. Their Paths call them to face the unknown, to understand it, and grow closer to the Supernal. With increasing insight, their powers grow, allowing them to reach for more difficult Mysteries, despite the very real risks.

    A typical Vampire story includes feeding, and asks what you’ll do to make it to tomorrow.
    A typical Werewolf story involves hunting a threat to the Pack’s territory.

    A typical Mage story starts with the characters sensing something. Everything else – the obsession, the hubris, the conflict between rival Orders, the danger of whatever they’re investigating – builds on that. A mage, using her magic to follow a Mystery, risking her sanity and the safety of others in exchange for power.

    Mage isn’t about the Exarchs, the Oracles, Atlantis, or even the Supernal World. Mages have one true obstacle in the way of their ambitions, and it’s the way magic is hidden in the world. The way they’re forced to hunt for power rather than simply grasping it. The way the world isn’t the Supernal Realms, but a material, Shadow, Astral, and Underworld that’s vast, complicated, infuriating, and the only world they’ll ever inhabit bar Ascension. A world they explore and encounter even as they try to find a way out. The common element linking every Mystery, catalyst to Awakening stories.

    The Fallen World.

    Next Week, let’s look at one of two topics that follow on from this: Mage Sight, or The Lie?

    SOOOOO EXCITED
    I was just gonna quote this and say it was too damn long but then I read it and it is pretty cool even though I have no idea what this is based on/set in/part of/whatever

    2x39jD4.jpg
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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Oh man, I wish there were Dragaerans in DnD. Morolan of House Dragon would be a great NPC to deal with.

    That's what Rule 0 is for.

    I'm just imagining trying to work in the Vlad Taltos series into an RPG.
    Most of the villains you try to go up against have soul rending weapons that can kill with a cut.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    SOOOOOOOO EXCITED

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