Time Mage could come from Thaumaturge as a support dps, or THM could get a healing class--give them a toggle that turns their damage spells into heals, keep the burn/regen MP mechanics.
[/list]
Why not red mage?!
Battle.net: ChubbyBunny#1452 | Steam: Bunny1248 | Xbox Live: CBunny1
Time Mage could come from Thaumaturge as a support dps, or THM could get a healing class--give them a toggle that turns their damage spells into heals, keep the burn/regen MP mechanics.
[/list]
Why not red mage?!
Because I suspect Red Mage will come from a different class. Maybe a magicky-fencer class that becomes Red Mage or Blue Mage.
Time Mage could come from Thaumaturge as a support dps, or THM could get a healing class--give them a toggle that turns their damage spells into heals, keep the burn/regen MP mechanics.
[/list]
Why not red mage?!
Because I suspect Red Mage will come from a different class. Maybe a magicky-fencer class that becomes Red Mage or Blue Mage.
I would be pretty shocked if Red Mage didn't just require 30/15 of Thau/Conj or Conj/Thau. But who knows?
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Depends on which era of FF they take the Red Mage from. Red Mage has alternatively been a pure white/black hybrid, and a melee/black/white hybrid over the course of FF's history. FF4, which is one of the bigger influences on this game, doesn't even have a true "red mage" in the cast, though I guess Tellah would kind of qualify (though he's specifically called a 'Sage' in that game).
Personally, I'd like to see Red Mage be a melee/caster hybrid. Something along the lines of Spell Fencer from Bravely Default.
I just finally did my first dungeon as tank, and didn't fuck it up! So that's good. But damn, I swear tanking feels a lot more clunky in this than it ever did in WoW. Maybe it's the GCD making me feel like I'm never putting out enough threat quickly enough.
I just finally did my first dungeon as tank, and didn't fuck it up! So that's good. But damn, I swear tanking feels a lot more clunky in this than it ever did in WoW. Maybe it's the GCD making me feel like I'm never putting out enough threat quickly enough.
Threat works a bit differently from WoW. First off, you don't have any huge easily available 'snap' threat moves like the sort WoW introduced in the later expansions to make tanking less of an imposing science. Secondly, there's no threat buffer, so if someone has 101% threat, they have aggro. And thirdly, there is (IMHO the only example of such in FFXIV:ARR) an unintuitive mechanic where you'll want to pop Savage Blade/Skull Splitter or Rage of Halone/Butcher's Block right off the bat to establish primary aggro. The game will make you believe you need to work up the combo, however those moves have enough of a threat multiplier to give you some buffer against the DPS who'll be lighting up the target.
The actual start of an engagement is similar to WoW. Ranged Pull, slam the primary target with an opener, AoE to cover healing threat, then move into your rotations. Warriors at level 30 (assuming they didn't get scaled down) have a stupidly huge advantage because of Defiance over the DPS, so they can, or from my experiences at least, open with Butcher's, then leisurely clock up Maim, Fracture everything, then consider using the three hit combo on the main target because some DPS got lucky with crits.
Example of pulls:
WoW Version: Weapon Throw -> Shield Slam -> Thunderclap -> Shockwave -> Devastate etc...
FFXIV:ARR Basic Version: Shield Toss -> Savage Blade -> Flash -> Fast Blade -> Savage Blade etc...
As usual, don't be afraid to split out the attacks on different targets. Using Fast Blade on the primary target but employing Savage Blade on a secondary can be good to keep aggro set, or reverse it so you Fast Blade a secondary then Savage the primary. Damage = threat in FFXIV:ARR in a rather big way until you get the 'tanking stances'.
Just to reiterate and emphasise:
I think the biggest mistake people make when tanking would be to try to work through the threat combos at the start of an engagement. DPS doesn't wait, healers cannot wait. You need to open up hard and fast, so using the 3rd or 2nd stage in the threat combo immediately lets you get that margin so aggro doesn't ping-pong. The first move in the combo chain has no threat multiplier, so comparing your damage against a DPSer who has sunk all their stat points towards damage? You'll lose.
All else fails, keep your weapon upgraded. Weapon damage is very important since it's the fastest way for effectiveness to scale up.
I just finally did my first dungeon as tank, and didn't fuck it up! So that's good. But damn, I swear tanking feels a lot more clunky in this than it ever did in WoW. Maybe it's the GCD making me feel like I'm never putting out enough threat quickly enough.
Threat works a bit differently from WoW. First off, you don't have any huge easily available 'snap' threat moves like the sort WoW introduced in the later expansions to make tanking less of an imposing science. Secondly, there's no threat buffer, so if someone has 101% threat, they have aggro. And thirdly, there is (IMHO the only example of such in FFXIV:ARR) an unintuitive mechanic where you'll want to pop Savage Blade/Skull Splitter or Rage of Halone/Butcher's Block right off the bat to establish primary aggro. The game will make you believe you need to work up the combo, however those moves have enough of a threat multiplier to give you some buffer against the DPS who'll be lighting up the target.
The actual start of an engagement is similar to WoW. Ranged Pull, slam the primary target with an opener, AoE to cover healing threat, then move into your rotations. Warriors at level 30 (assuming they didn't get scaled down) have a stupidly huge advantage because of Defiance over the DPS, so they can, or from my experiences at least, open with Butcher's, then leisurely clock up Maim, Fracture everything, then consider using the three hit combo on the main target because some DPS got lucky with crits.
Example of pulls:
WoW Version: Weapon Throw -> Shield Slam -> Thunderclap -> Shockwave -> Devastate etc...
FFXIV:ARR Basic Version: Shield Toss -> Savage Blade -> Flash -> Fast Blade -> Savage Blade etc...
As usual, don't be afraid to split out the attacks on different targets. Using Fast Blade on the primary target but employing Savage Blade on a secondary can be good to keep aggro set, or reverse it so you Fast Blade a secondary then Savage the primary. Damage = threat in FFXIV:ARR in a rather big way until you get the 'tanking stances'.
The other thing I'd note as a newbie who's recently gotten the game and has been helping a friend level as a gladiator, that unlike most MMOs that I've played, FFXIV is much more strict on AOE threat generation. In say, WoW, the average tank gets several AOE hitting abilities that allows them pull and keep aggro, where in FXIV tanks don't.
It was a little jarring wondering when Gladiators would get a AOE attack to pull and draw aggro(other than flash) and looking it up and seeing that there's only 1 AOE attack for Gladiators, and it comes at level 50. And it's not what I'd call filler either(with the 25 second CD).
Warriors getting Defiance at 30 before Paladins get Sheild Oath at 40 is a huuuuge advantage. The threat boost from the tanking stances lets you start with your standard 3 hit combo without any fear of dps pulling agro.*
Warriors again, have it easier because they can cross class Flash to use to get agro while grouping up the mobs for Overpower.
*With the exception of geared as hell dps in some cases.
Any tips for tanking and changing targets on controller? Because switching targets right now feels like it takes a weird amount of button-pressing. I'd like to just be able to swap without releasing the trigger, but I'm not seeing a way to do that.
Any tips for tanking and changing targets on controller? Because switching targets right now feels like it takes a weird amount of button-pressing. I'd like to just be able to swap without releasing the trigger, but I'm not seeing a way to do that.
R2 or L2 + R1 or L1 changes targets. If you're not using targeting filters, you should be.
I am not sure how people with controllers handle complex fights with multiple targets. I have half my keyboard mapped to abilities, target switching and macros. I am not exaggerating here.
I just finally did my first dungeon as tank, and didn't fuck it up! So that's good. But damn, I swear tanking feels a lot more clunky in this than it ever did in WoW. Maybe it's the GCD making me feel like I'm never putting out enough threat quickly enough.
Just to reiterate and emphasise:
I think the biggest mistake people make when tanking would be to try to work through the threat combos at the start of an engagement. DPS doesn't wait, healers cannot wait. You need to open up hard and fast, so using the 3rd or 2nd stage in the threat combo immediately lets you get that margin so aggro doesn't ping-pong. The first move in the combo chain has no threat multiplier, so comparing your damage against a DPSer who has sunk all their stat points towards damage? You'll lose.
All else fails, keep your weapon upgraded. Weapon damage is very important since it's the fastest way for effectiveness to scale up.
Ehhhhhhhhh
I don't know if I agree with this.
Maybe in the lowest levels when you don't have defiance/shield oath. Maybe. Definitely once you get those opening with a non-combo BB/RoH is terrible for quick threat generation compared to the alternatives.
But first off, DPS don't start hitting their hardest instantly. DRG needs to get Heavy Swing up and go through combos. Monk needs to stack up GL, Bard will be applying Straight shot and their DoTs, plus a bloodletter. They're pretty much the only threat to hitting really hard earliest on. SMN will be applying DoTs and their DPS is split with their pets, and BLM will be opening with Fire III and Thunder before doing anything else. Even if one of them is swiftcast there's still two spells that trigger the gcd, and they probably won't have any Astral fire stacks before Fire III.
So assuming that the DPS starts going hard the second you hit the mob, the only one that will be doing respectable damage between your first and second attack would be maybe Bard. And since you'll be really opening with Tomahawk/Shield lob(Pretty massive threat there for the opening)
By the time you've gotten to the second attack if you open with a combo, you've put out more threat than had you wasted a GCD on a non-combo BB. So basically by the time any DPS are doing any DPS you're higher threat if you're doing your combo. By the third attack you've gone to insanity-ville for threat.
Also, once you have Defiance/Shield oath, your opening attack of your threat combo, along with everything you do, has a 2x threat modifier.
I've been meaning to fix this for a while, but which config command do I need to enable so that when the enemy I'm currently targeting dies, I immediately target the next enemy that my party is fighting?
As a Tank and DPS, I spend too much time manually targeting the next enemy my group is fighting after killing my last target.
Also, while it was suggested I turn off auto-facing targets when using a skill, I feel I would be better off leaving it on. It's just easier when dealing with a crowded screen where I can't momentarily tell which way my character is facing, or if the enemy moves from my field of view.
Thanks to everyone who helped me through the last dungeons of the 2.0 story. I need to go back and watch the cutscenes for everything, but running dungeons with fellow Ghosts is a blast and I can't wait to do way more of it. This one image pretty much sums up how useful I was during the fights, but I'd like to think I provided some uh... moral support?
Edit - also snagged this picture of ghosts vs. one of the last bosses (2.0):
Chubby Bunny on
Battle.net: ChubbyBunny#1452 | Steam: Bunny1248 | Xbox Live: CBunny1
Man, I have thought to myself, " Self, I should level up this crafting class in parallel with this battle class so I can make my own gear," so many times.
And every single time the plan almost immediately fails because levelling up crafting classes is torture.
Opening with BB or RoH basically accelerates group threat by one GCD at the expense of delaying the big single target threat spike, which is preferable IMHO in large pull situations. BB and RoH is worth around 7.5x potency in threat generation while a combo'd Savage/Skull is 1.5+9 (4.5x200 potency). A combo'd BB/RoH is like 19x or so potency in threat so yeah, if you rush it single target threat is a forgone conclusion. It also feels like waiting until you have the combo'd RoH/BB for use immediately after a provoke is a good thing to do, or at least the Shield Lob/Tomahawk.
Single target situation like bosses which is the most likely scenario where DPS will be popping all their CDs and play a game on seeing if they can pull aggro (in any case, they should be using Quelling Strikes), yeah, ranged pull then the three stage combo is the best way to do thing if threat is your priority. However, being able to pull up that spare GCD without 'breaking' the combo, because it doesn't exist yet, can give an amount of leeway if you have other priorities at stake.
Normally with group pulls, mobs will take about a GCD to settle into a nice pack unless the mobs in the pull are already tightly clustered. You could open with the combo starter, but you'll need another GCD to set aggro meanwhile you have the need to set group threat before you can take heals. BB -> Overpower or RoH -> Flash sets group aggro faster for healing and still gives a 2 GCD level of single target threat. The third GCD will be far inferior compared to the full combo route, but at least you have group threat set up.
The advantage by the 4th GCD is obviously in the first (go through the combo) option, however you do leave the healer hanging for another GCD or 2.5 seconds where they cannot drop a heal without mobs peeling. If you're well geared, this won't be a problem. Stoneskin plus a bigger HP pool will let you ride that extra time without a fuss. Alternatively, blowing a defensive CD will let you get through that patch. By the fifth GCD, the threat levels are pretty much evened out into stupidly high territory regardless of which option was used.
I still think that unless the tank is well geared and both the tank and the healer knows how much punishment is going to be meted out, opening with RoH/BB would be preferable simply for the sake of establishing AoE threat as the pack coalesces while giving the DPS headroom.
Opening with BB or RoH basically accelerates group threat by one GCD at the expense of delaying the big single target threat spike, which is preferable IMHO in large pull situations. BB and RoH is worth around 7.5x potency in threat generation while a combo'd Savage/Skull is 1.5+9 (4.5x200 potency). A combo'd BB/RoH is like 19x or so potency in threat so yeah, if you rush it single target threat is a forgone conclusion. It also feels like waiting until you have the combo'd RoH/BB for use immediately after a provoke is a good thing to do, or at least the Shield Lob/Tomahawk.
Single target situation like bosses which is the most likely scenario where DPS will be popping all their CDs and play a game on seeing if they can pull aggro (in any case, they should be using Quelling Strikes), yeah, ranged pull then the three stage combo is the best way to do thing if threat is your priority. However, being able to pull up that spare GCD without 'breaking' the combo, because it doesn't exist yet, can give an amount of leeway if you have other priorities at stake.
Normally with group pulls, mobs will take about a GCD to settle into a nice pack unless the mobs in the pull are already tightly clustered. You could open with the combo starter, but you'll need another GCD to set aggro meanwhile you have the need to set group threat before you can take heals. BB -> Overpower or RoH -> Flash sets group aggro faster for healing and still gives a 2 GCD level of single target threat. The third GCD will be far inferior compared to the full combo route, but at least you have group threat set up.
The advantage by the 4th GCD is obviously in the first (go through the combo) option, however you do leave the healer hanging for another GCD or 2.5 seconds where they cannot drop a heal without mobs peeling. If you're well geared, this won't be a problem. Stoneskin plus a bigger HP pool will let you ride that extra time without a fuss. Alternatively, blowing a defensive CD will let you get through that patch. By the fifth GCD, the threat levels are pretty much evened out into stupidly high territory regardless of which option was used.
I still think that unless the tank is well geared and both the tank and the healer knows how much punishment is going to be meted out, opening with RoH/BB would be preferable simply for the sake of establishing AoE threat as the pack coalesces while giving the DPS headroom.
I don't know why you're not opening with Tomahawk, which gives almost as much enmity as a non-comboed BB/RoH, and lets the GCD reset while you're moving into position. That way, your healer gets breathing room, and gives you all the time in the world(The one GCD you need) to start the combo.
Honestly if you can't last 2.5 seconds without needing heals with SS/Galvanize past your opening Shield lob/tomahawk you have no business tanking whatever you're trying to tank.
Opening with Tomahawk/Shield Lob is a given and assumed, which is why it isn't included. It's a 'free' initiator and yes, lets you pre-position without turning your back to mobs, but the threat is closer to Savage Blade than RoH.
Edit: Did you read the first paragraph or did you jump to the conclusion that I'm wrong and I'm forgetting something basic?
I did say that in single target situations, you're better off with the combo plus initiate with shield lob/tomahawk because there is no need to use anything else other than pure upfront threat. Yes, if you're in a raiding situation or are geared to the gills, you should be able to last a damn sight close to eternity without heals.
What if you're stepping into Brayflox or SV for the first time without the advantage of hand-me-down gear? Are you going to wait 7.5 seconds before dropping Flash when you're taking huge chunking hits from multiple targets at once? For goodness sakes, anyone who's doing raid content or has i90 gear on a tank should know better but for those who aren't at that stage yet or needs to hold multi-target threat, knowing that opening out of combo can buy you that extra bit of time and just maybe those cluster**** 24man pulls can be a little less messy.
Opening with Tomahawk/Shield Lob is a given and assumed, which is why it isn't included. It's a 'free' initiator and yes, lets you pre-position without turning your back to mobs, but the threat is closer to Savage Blade than RoH.
It is closer to savage blade, but it still should be enough unless the tank is wearing paper. Which, if you are that undergeared, don't tank whatever you're tanking.
Heals are 1/2 in enmity generation to damage.
My shield lob on my i93 warrior does 100ish damage, or 600 threat. My fast blade does 150ish damage, or 300 threat.
You're saying that by the end of the 2.5 seconds where I've shield lobbed and fast bladed, I'm going to need and receive 1800hp in healing? That's with 20% reduction. Plus I have about 6k health, so 20% of that is 1200.
What fight does 3,000 mitigated damage in the first 2 seconds, with another 4,000 coming in fast enough that I need to have the healers be casting their strongest heal before I even start my first attack?(Since if they start casting after or at the same time as my first attack, I'll have pulled far ahead of the RoH opening when Savage blade goes off) For that matter, if the fight is going to be smacking that hard from the beginning, wouldn't I use a defensive cd, making it have to do even more damage?
There may in some fights be a fringe case in which opening with Rage of Halone/Butchers Block is the better thing to do, because you need immediate threat 2.5 seconds in and don't care if you're now one GCD behind generating your big spike of threat. Maybe in SCoB, since I've only done T6(where that isn't the case). Certainly nowhere else though.
And I don't think then that saying that you should be opening with the slower threat generation most of the time is good.
Look, I totally agree in single target situations you're better off working up the chain. However I've been talking about dropping Flash or Overpower for group situations, which is where healers get gibbed from peeled mobs and is where newbie tanks have troubles keeping stuff together.
Ultimately too if you look at the way everything works opening with your full combo, it's pretty clear what the intent was.
Imagine everyone starts using their skills at exactly the same time.
Monks using Perfect Balance take three attacks to get their full GL stacks, one of which will be a DoT, and they'll be applying Twin Snakes and Touch of death, so right about when they start hitting their hardest, you have the massive full-combo threat.
Dragoons will use Heavy Thrust, and probably apply their DoT before even starting their combo, meaning that their biggest attack will be one or two GCDs behind you, so the attack after you finish your combo is their big h it.
Bards will have only Bloodthirster to worry about for sudden damage, since they're applying DoTs and giving themselves the buff, only starting to hit with their main abilities after the end of your combo.
Summoners will finish putting on their DoTs and Fester right after RoH/BB goes off
BLMs will open Thunder and a Swiftcast Fire III, and then their first heavy hitting ability with stacks will be right as RoH goes off. If they get a firestarter proc immediately it won't be up until after your combo is done.
Both healers have a damage mitigation shield in addition to basically half enmity generation, meaning their first heals will be coming out riiiight about as you Savage Blade/Skull sunder assuming they have to start healing right away.
Like every single damage and healing class has a ramp up that will line up pretty well with starting to hit hard right about just after you're dropped your massive threat bomb. So I don't see why you'd want to ever delay that.
Look, I totally agree in single target situations you're better off working up the chain. However I've been talking about dropping Flash or Overpower for group situations, which is where healers get gibbed from peeled mobs and is where newbie tanks have troubles keeping stuff together.
In group stuff though that's even worse of an idea. Like you can only hit one thing at a time with a single-target move, where Overpower and Flash hit... well, everything.
Flash is confusing, since it does scale with stats, but doesn't do damage. So let's just look at overpower.
Overpower is potency 120, with 4x threat modifier, moved up to 8x with defiance. So 960 "Hate potency"
BB without combo is potency 100 with 5x threat modifier, moved up to 10x with defiance. So 1000 "Hate potency"
So by the time you've BBd the second mob instead of using overpower you're now 840 hate potency down. And that's with only two mobs.
Posts
Why not red mage?!
My Digital Pin Lanyard || PAX East '13, '14, '15, '19 | PAX South '15
Because I suspect Red Mage will come from a different class. Maybe a magicky-fencer class that becomes Red Mage or Blue Mage.
I would be pretty shocked if Red Mage didn't just require 30/15 of Thau/Conj or Conj/Thau. But who knows?
Personally, I'd like to see Red Mage be a melee/caster hybrid. Something along the lines of Spell Fencer from Bravely Default.
maybe an FF9 reference, make the requirement 15 CUL or something ridiculous.
You yell at your party members to walk it off.
Threat works a bit differently from WoW. First off, you don't have any huge easily available 'snap' threat moves like the sort WoW introduced in the later expansions to make tanking less of an imposing science. Secondly, there's no threat buffer, so if someone has 101% threat, they have aggro. And thirdly, there is (IMHO the only example of such in FFXIV:ARR) an unintuitive mechanic where you'll want to pop Savage Blade/Skull Splitter or Rage of Halone/Butcher's Block right off the bat to establish primary aggro. The game will make you believe you need to work up the combo, however those moves have enough of a threat multiplier to give you some buffer against the DPS who'll be lighting up the target.
The actual start of an engagement is similar to WoW. Ranged Pull, slam the primary target with an opener, AoE to cover healing threat, then move into your rotations. Warriors at level 30 (assuming they didn't get scaled down) have a stupidly huge advantage because of Defiance over the DPS, so they can, or from my experiences at least, open with Butcher's, then leisurely clock up Maim, Fracture everything, then consider using the three hit combo on the main target because some DPS got lucky with crits.
Example of pulls:
WoW Version: Weapon Throw -> Shield Slam -> Thunderclap -> Shockwave -> Devastate etc...
FFXIV:ARR Basic Version: Shield Toss -> Savage Blade -> Flash -> Fast Blade -> Savage Blade etc...
As usual, don't be afraid to split out the attacks on different targets. Using Fast Blade on the primary target but employing Savage Blade on a secondary can be good to keep aggro set, or reverse it so you Fast Blade a secondary then Savage the primary. Damage = threat in FFXIV:ARR in a rather big way until you get the 'tanking stances'.
Just to reiterate and emphasise:
I think the biggest mistake people make when tanking would be to try to work through the threat combos at the start of an engagement. DPS doesn't wait, healers cannot wait. You need to open up hard and fast, so using the 3rd or 2nd stage in the threat combo immediately lets you get that margin so aggro doesn't ping-pong. The first move in the combo chain has no threat multiplier, so comparing your damage against a DPSer who has sunk all their stat points towards damage? You'll lose.
All else fails, keep your weapon upgraded. Weapon damage is very important since it's the fastest way for effectiveness to scale up.
The other thing I'd note as a newbie who's recently gotten the game and has been helping a friend level as a gladiator, that unlike most MMOs that I've played, FFXIV is much more strict on AOE threat generation. In say, WoW, the average tank gets several AOE hitting abilities that allows them pull and keep aggro, where in FXIV tanks don't.
It was a little jarring wondering when Gladiators would get a AOE attack to pull and draw aggro(other than flash) and looking it up and seeing that there's only 1 AOE attack for Gladiators, and it comes at level 50. And it's not what I'd call filler either(with the 25 second CD).
Warriors again, have it easier because they can cross class Flash to use to get agro while grouping up the mobs for Overpower.
*With the exception of geared as hell dps in some cases.
nice try! have you met my overpower x3 opener! if a mob isn't actively hitting me I don't trust it
Don't forget Infuriate -> Steel Cyclone!
That's when I say "oh good, this tank can hold his dudes!" then I mix more regens into my dps and try to kill things before you die.
R2 or L2 + R1 or L1 changes targets. If you're not using targeting filters, you should be.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
this is exactly how i run warrior!
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
My Digital Pin Lanyard || PAX East '13, '14, '15, '19 | PAX South '15
Ehhhhhhhhh
I don't know if I agree with this.
Maybe in the lowest levels when you don't have defiance/shield oath. Maybe. Definitely once you get those opening with a non-combo BB/RoH is terrible for quick threat generation compared to the alternatives.
But first off, DPS don't start hitting their hardest instantly. DRG needs to get Heavy Swing up and go through combos. Monk needs to stack up GL, Bard will be applying Straight shot and their DoTs, plus a bloodletter. They're pretty much the only threat to hitting really hard earliest on. SMN will be applying DoTs and their DPS is split with their pets, and BLM will be opening with Fire III and Thunder before doing anything else. Even if one of them is swiftcast there's still two spells that trigger the gcd, and they probably won't have any Astral fire stacks before Fire III.
So assuming that the DPS starts going hard the second you hit the mob, the only one that will be doing respectable damage between your first and second attack would be maybe Bard. And since you'll be really opening with Tomahawk/Shield lob(Pretty massive threat there for the opening)
By the time you've gotten to the second attack if you open with a combo, you've put out more threat than had you wasted a GCD on a non-combo BB. So basically by the time any DPS are doing any DPS you're higher threat if you're doing your combo. By the third attack you've gone to insanity-ville for threat.
Also, once you have Defiance/Shield oath, your opening attack of your threat combo, along with everything you do, has a 2x threat modifier.
As a Tank and DPS, I spend too much time manually targeting the next enemy my group is fighting after killing my last target.
Also, while it was suggested I turn off auto-facing targets when using a skill, I feel I would be better off leaving it on. It's just easier when dealing with a crowded screen where I can't momentarily tell which way my character is facing, or if the enemy moves from my field of view.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Edit - also snagged this picture of ghosts vs. one of the last bosses (2.0):
My Digital Pin Lanyard || PAX East '13, '14, '15, '19 | PAX South '15
And every single time the plan almost immediately fails because levelling up crafting classes is torture.
Incredibly boring torture.
Single target situation like bosses which is the most likely scenario where DPS will be popping all their CDs and play a game on seeing if they can pull aggro (in any case, they should be using Quelling Strikes), yeah, ranged pull then the three stage combo is the best way to do thing if threat is your priority. However, being able to pull up that spare GCD without 'breaking' the combo, because it doesn't exist yet, can give an amount of leeway if you have other priorities at stake.
Normally with group pulls, mobs will take about a GCD to settle into a nice pack unless the mobs in the pull are already tightly clustered. You could open with the combo starter, but you'll need another GCD to set aggro meanwhile you have the need to set group threat before you can take heals. BB -> Overpower or RoH -> Flash sets group aggro faster for healing and still gives a 2 GCD level of single target threat. The third GCD will be far inferior compared to the full combo route, but at least you have group threat set up.
Some scenario numbers:
Combo 1, Combo 2, Flash, Combo 3, Combo 1 = 1.5 -> 10.5 -> 18 + 7.5 group -> 37 -> 38.5
RoH, Flash, Combo 1, Combo 2, Combo 3 = 7.5 -> 15 + 7.5 group -> 16.5 -> 25.5 -> 44.5
BB, Overpower, Combo 1, Combo 2, Combo 3 = 7.5 -> 16.5 + 9 group -> 18 -> 27 -> 46
The advantage by the 4th GCD is obviously in the first (go through the combo) option, however you do leave the healer hanging for another GCD or 2.5 seconds where they cannot drop a heal without mobs peeling. If you're well geared, this won't be a problem. Stoneskin plus a bigger HP pool will let you ride that extra time without a fuss. Alternatively, blowing a defensive CD will let you get through that patch. By the fifth GCD, the threat levels are pretty much evened out into stupidly high territory regardless of which option was used.
I still think that unless the tank is well geared and both the tank and the healer knows how much punishment is going to be meted out, opening with RoH/BB would be preferable simply for the sake of establishing AoE threat as the pack coalesces while giving the DPS headroom.
Sources:
Reddit Warrior enmity discussion
Pre-Warrior buffs enmity tables
Novus get! Also pictured are Alethia (top left), Bright (top right), and two others who I cannot remember.
My god I look fabulous
I don't know why you're not opening with Tomahawk, which gives almost as much enmity as a non-comboed BB/RoH, and lets the GCD reset while you're moving into position. That way, your healer gets breathing room, and gives you all the time in the world(The one GCD you need) to start the combo.
Honestly if you can't last 2.5 seconds without needing heals with SS/Galvanize past your opening Shield lob/tomahawk you have no business tanking whatever you're trying to tank.
Edit: Did you read the first paragraph or did you jump to the conclusion that I'm wrong and I'm forgetting something basic?
I did say that in single target situations, you're better off with the combo plus initiate with shield lob/tomahawk because there is no need to use anything else other than pure upfront threat. Yes, if you're in a raiding situation or are geared to the gills, you should be able to last a damn sight close to eternity without heals.
What if you're stepping into Brayflox or SV for the first time without the advantage of hand-me-down gear? Are you going to wait 7.5 seconds before dropping Flash when you're taking huge chunking hits from multiple targets at once? For goodness sakes, anyone who's doing raid content or has i90 gear on a tank should know better but for those who aren't at that stage yet or needs to hold multi-target threat, knowing that opening out of combo can buy you that extra bit of time and just maybe those cluster**** 24man pulls can be a little less messy.
post-buff enmity tables
For war
It is closer to savage blade, but it still should be enough unless the tank is wearing paper. Which, if you are that undergeared, don't tank whatever you're tanking.
Heals are 1/2 in enmity generation to damage.
My shield lob on my i93 warrior does 100ish damage, or 600 threat. My fast blade does 150ish damage, or 300 threat.
You're saying that by the end of the 2.5 seconds where I've shield lobbed and fast bladed, I'm going to need and receive 1800hp in healing? That's with 20% reduction. Plus I have about 6k health, so 20% of that is 1200.
What fight does 3,000 mitigated damage in the first 2 seconds, with another 4,000 coming in fast enough that I need to have the healers be casting their strongest heal before I even start my first attack?(Since if they start casting after or at the same time as my first attack, I'll have pulled far ahead of the RoH opening when Savage blade goes off) For that matter, if the fight is going to be smacking that hard from the beginning, wouldn't I use a defensive cd, making it have to do even more damage?
There may in some fights be a fringe case in which opening with Rage of Halone/Butchers Block is the better thing to do, because you need immediate threat 2.5 seconds in and don't care if you're now one GCD behind generating your big spike of threat. Maybe in SCoB, since I've only done T6(where that isn't the case). Certainly nowhere else though.
And I don't think then that saying that you should be opening with the slower threat generation most of the time is good.
Imagine everyone starts using their skills at exactly the same time.
Monks using Perfect Balance take three attacks to get their full GL stacks, one of which will be a DoT, and they'll be applying Twin Snakes and Touch of death, so right about when they start hitting their hardest, you have the massive full-combo threat.
Dragoons will use Heavy Thrust, and probably apply their DoT before even starting their combo, meaning that their biggest attack will be one or two GCDs behind you, so the attack after you finish your combo is their big h it.
Bards will have only Bloodthirster to worry about for sudden damage, since they're applying DoTs and giving themselves the buff, only starting to hit with their main abilities after the end of your combo.
Summoners will finish putting on their DoTs and Fester right after RoH/BB goes off
BLMs will open Thunder and a Swiftcast Fire III, and then their first heavy hitting ability with stacks will be right as RoH goes off. If they get a firestarter proc immediately it won't be up until after your combo is done.
Both healers have a damage mitigation shield in addition to basically half enmity generation, meaning their first heals will be coming out riiiight about as you Savage Blade/Skull sunder assuming they have to start healing right away.
Like every single damage and healing class has a ramp up that will line up pretty well with starting to hit hard right about just after you're dropped your massive threat bomb. So I don't see why you'd want to ever delay that.
In group stuff though that's even worse of an idea. Like you can only hit one thing at a time with a single-target move, where Overpower and Flash hit... well, everything.
Flash is confusing, since it does scale with stats, but doesn't do damage. So let's just look at overpower.
Overpower is potency 120, with 4x threat modifier, moved up to 8x with defiance. So 960 "Hate potency"
BB without combo is potency 100 with 5x threat modifier, moved up to 10x with defiance. So 1000 "Hate potency"
So by the time you've BBd the second mob instead of using overpower you're now 840 hate potency down. And that's with only two mobs.