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[WARMACHINE & HORDES] 1+1=Cyriss is calculating... calculating... seven! And you're dead.

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  • tokumeitokumei Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I'm just happy there are changes to make sure Ret Jacks have a nice boost.

    tokumei on
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Hmm. Nemo 3 + power up + Finch = very yes, if Finch's ability stays the same.

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  • 3lwap03lwap0 Registered User regular
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Hmm. Nemo 3 + power up + Finch = very yes, if Finch's ability stays the same.

    I hadn't thought of that. For 1 focus, he could fuel 7 warjacks at full every round. Jeebus.

    Odds are they won't keep that though. But if they do.....

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    ... he might almost be okay.

    All of the Nemos need more then better focus efficiency to be good casters, unfortunately. But if they're actually serious about making jacks more relevant (like by removing 90% of weapon master) he has a chance.

    Nobody
  • kaortikaorti Registered User regular
    Heck, if they make purification much less common then Nemo2 might have some serious game in Mk 3. Power up would let him put out his upkeeps on turn one and still run everything.

    Maybe they cold even make him less one-dimensionally reliant on upkeeps.

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Hopefully Purification becomes a very different spell.

    kaortiNobody
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    New Insider went up, talking more changes.

    Frenzy's been reworked.
    In the new edition, the Frenzy rules simply state that a frenzying warbeast shakes all effects that can be shaken, then charges the closest model and makes a single attack against that charge target, using its highest P+S attack. That’s it. No more long if/then chart to check against. Just shake, charge, and attack.

    Skill checks are completely gone as well.

    Wreck markers are out of WM.

    PMAvers on
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  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    MK3 trenchers get tough, brutal charge, an effective price decrease, and smoke is now centered on the model.

    Trenchers are back.

    Also, ROF is number of initial attacks you can make with a weapon now.

  • CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    I assume this means gun mages will be bad, now

    Do not have a cow, mortal.

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  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I assume this means gun mages will be bad, now

    In Mk1 both Gun Mages and Trenchers were good, so anything can happen!

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    MAT
    SIX
    BRUCE

    It's the sign of the apocalypse, Bruce actually being amazing.

    I like how melee weapons have their range right in the weapon's description now.

    Also, most importantly, tomorrow is supposed to be a Merc/Minion insider.

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  • CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    I assume this means gun mages will be bad, now

    In Mk1 both Gun Mages and Trenchers were good, so anything can happen!
    At least we can always count on Stormblades being subpar

    Do not have a cow, mortal.

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  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    No limits on UAs anymore either, so at least Stormblades will have that going for them.

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Also...
    In the new edition, models can only spend focus/fury or be forced to make additional melee attacks. A model can only buy additional ranged attacks if it has a rule enabling it to do so.

    The ability that lets you buy more ranged attacks is called Reload[x], where x is the max number you can get.

    Apparently the Manticore now has a d3 ROF on it's gun.

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    New insider's up, talking about Theme Forces and mercs & minions.

    The new theme forces basically sound like they took a cue from the old Minion pacts. They're faction-specific instead of caster-specific, and will give you some building limitations but grant you a passive bonus.

    Examples they gave:
    Arcane Tempest Gun Mages in the “Sons of the Tempest” theme force all gain CRA.
    In the Trollbloods “Power of Dhunia” theme force, all Trollbloods warbeast gain +2 THR to represent the calming power of the mother goddess that surrounds the army.

    They rolled some of the benefits from old theme forces into cards as well.
    The Good Doctor can take Gorax Ragers as a baseline thing now.
    Doom Reaver Swordsman are now FA U.

    Speaking of which, merc contracts and minion pacts are GONE.

    There may be some Animosities still, but you can go nuts save some limitations like warbeasts. I'm going to assume the old pacts and contracts will show up as theme forces again for those who want to focus on a specific style.

    But holy shit this is yuge. No more "Minions that won't work for Minions" problems.

    EDIT: Primecast 31 went up as well.

    Cygnar: Ironclad's Quake Hammer drops a 4" AOE on the target you hit with it, and knocks everything not-Ironclad down in it.

    Trollbloods: Tough changes, you only get Tough rolls when standing up.
    Far Strike: RNG Self now.
    War Wagon's guns are RNG 12 now.
    Champions don't KD when BTB with another model in their unit, Warders have shield guard

    Protectorate of Fire Psychos: Sounds like they might have slightly more MAT on jacks?
    Choir doesn't give accuracy bonuses anymore, though.
    Cavalry: All cav now has Reposition, depending on heavy or light cav the value on it will be adjusted accordingly.

    Circle: Still "shifty as all get-up."
    Ravager Chieftain: Mass Carnage, new ability. Grants them overtake for a turn.
    Also grants them Vengeance.

    Cay-dor:
    Conquest: AOE's on it have High Explosive, so blast damage rolls are going to be straight POW 10 on them.
    Man-of-War retooling? "Most durable heavy infantry in the game", they'll have 8 boxes of health unlike everything else which only has 5.
    Shocktrooper Officer: Can't move/push the unit, can't knock them down, everything is repairable.

    Skorne:
    Immortals give soul tokens. So, y'know, all the stuff that plays around with gathering soul tokens in that army can actually *run* them.

    Cryx: They may have units, solos, and warjacks led by a warcaster.
    Supposedly more combined-arms, and more warjacks than just arc nodes on the table or just spamming infantry.

    Legion: Still exists, sadly. So close, Kreuger.
    Supposedly will actually have to worry about fury management.

    Retribution: Re-genning the shields will be more useful due to Power Up, since you might actually have focus to spend on it.
    Supposedly a massive re-work so everything has a purpose and a place, due to them being the first into Mark II.

    Cogs: Getting their own Force Book down the road.
    Corollary still "a nightmare".

    EDIT: In regards to Arcanists:
    Arcanists still put on the focus (though its important to point out that the term "gains" does not allow a warjack to have more than 3 focus unless it has a rule stating otherwise)-

    •Empower (★Action) - RNG CMD. Target friendly Faction warjack. If the target warjack is in range, it gains 1 focus point. If the warjack was Disrupted, it is no longer Disrupted.

    EDIT:
    From the Necrotech -

    Spare Parts - When a warjack is destroyed in this model’s command range, it gains one scrap token. This model can have up to three scrap tokens at any time. Before making a Repair roll, this model can spend one scrap token to add +2 to its roll.


    Create Scrap Thrall (★Action) - When this model uses this ability remove one or more scrap tokens from this model, then roll a d3 for each scrap token removed. Place up to that number of Scrap Thralls into play completely within 3˝ of this model. A placed Scrap Thrall must forfeit its Combat Action the turn it is put into play.

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  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    I just read this spoiler from the Primecast

    Not sure if true, but I HOPE IT IS
    Barnabas has succeeded in becoming a god

    NeurotikaLord_Asmodeus
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    In regards to fury management:
    PPS_Soles wrote:
    I am presently working from home away from the current rules and my database, so I'm working without a net. But I will try to shed a little light for you. In our early evaluation of the game as we went into this new edition we determined that frenzy was too predictable. It seldom happened and did not seem like the balancing factor against running beasts too hot that we were looking for. In short, that risk management aspect was just not there. So we we slightly reduced THR stats where it seemed most reasonable, with the most savage beasts having the lowest THR and the most disciplined having the highest (Nephilim and Titan Sentries come to mind as high THR models).

    We also reduced the effectiveness of the Condition special rule so that instead of being able to add or remove any amount of fury, the conditioning model could only add or remove 1 fury point.

    PMAvers on
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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Oh, no. Not again...

    Feat: Blackout
    Enemy models currently in Morghoul’s control range and LOS suffer Blind for one round. (A model suffering Blind cannot make ranged or magic attacks, suffers –4 MAT and DEF, and cannot run, charge, or make slam or trample power attacks. It must forfeit either its Normal Movement or Combat Action during its next activation. Blind can be shaken.)

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  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Blind being shakeable makes that a lot more reasonable.

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Because it's Friday (and totally not because the glowering shadow of our forum overlord PPS_Simon is hovering over me with one of Reznik's wracks at the ready) let's talk some numbers!

    Much like the Slayer I previewed in Wednesday's Insider, the tried and true Crusader is pretty much the same warjack Protectorate players know and love. Albeit it now has that sweet RNG 1 on its melee weapons. The big thing to consider in the new edition is that this jack comes in at a bargain 10 PC. As many have postulated 10 PC puts it at a cost less than several light warjacks. I don't care how "basic" you may consider the Crusader, when your opponent throws down 3 of them for free with each getting a guaranteed focus a turn they are a force to be reckoned with!

    But what about another example I hear you (and not the deep menacing growl of PPS_Simon) say! Well let's look at the Templar. In the new edition the Templar's shield gained a point of POW and, more importantly the Templar now has Shield Guard! And at a PC of 15 it's even slightly cheaper than it was in Mk II.

    And for a final point of comparison, the Redeemer is now 11 points (so again slightly cheaper) and, are you ready for it, thanks to the change in how ROF works in the new edition just flat out gets to make three skyhammer shots per activation, no focus required (nevermind that you still have one for free).

    For the fire psychos in the crowd.

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  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks OaklandRegistered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Because it's Friday (and totally not because the glowering shadow of our forum overlord PPS_Simon is hovering over me with one of Reznik's wracks at the ready) let's talk some numbers!

    Much like the Slayer I previewed in Wednesday's Insider, the tried and true Crusader is pretty much the same warjack Protectorate players know and love. Albeit it now has that sweet RNG 1 on its melee weapons. The big thing to consider in the new edition is that this jack comes in at a bargain 10 PC. As many have postulated 10 PC puts it at a cost less than several light warjacks. I don't care how "basic" you may consider the Crusader, when your opponent throws down 3 of them for free with each getting a guaranteed focus a turn they are a force to be reckoned with!

    But what about another example I hear you (and not the deep menacing growl of PPS_Simon) say! Well let's look at the Templar. In the new edition the Templar's shield gained a point of POW and, more importantly the Templar now has Shield Guard! And at a PC of 15 it's even slightly cheaper than it was in Mk II.

    And for a final point of comparison, the Redeemer is now 11 points (so again slightly cheaper) and, are you ready for it, thanks to the change in how ROF works in the new edition just flat out gets to make three skyhammer shots per activation, no focus required (nevermind that you still have one for free).

    For the fire psychos in the crowd.

    Templar with Shield Guard makes it pretty sweet, actually. Harbinger Theme Force has a good reason to take at least one, instead of all Crusaders. And that Redeemer change means that it might actually get taken in low-focus caster lists!

  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I've heard speculation based on lore info about what happens during and after the timeskip that the new Hordes faction might be from Zu, which could be really cool.

    Lord_Asmodeus on
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  • RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    I've heard speculation based on lore info about what happens during and after the timeskip that the new Hordes faction might be from Zu, which could be really cool.

    I'm still holding out for Infernals. Zu would be pretty great though.

  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    I don't think it will be Infernals, from what I've read on the forums they've said it wouldn't be the Infernals a number of times when asked about it. Same for the Orgoth.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    I'm way behind on lore. Who are Zu/Infernals?

  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Zu is a continent (I don't know exactly what direction it is, maybe the south or the south east?) that is sort of Africa/China and full of Jungles, before MK3 only one port would allow foreigners (and I think Ord or Cygnar had almost exclusive rights to it as well). We know almost nothing about it, except that the Totem Hunters come from Zu. The Infernals are sort of half devil half Lovecraftian monsters that make deals with humans known as Infernalists. Infernalists don't have to sell their own souls and can provide other souls to the Infernals for powers, and so a number of Thamarites are Infernalists.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Just finished reading Wrath of the Dragonfather.
    It was amazing. Well, there goes the idea of Nidoboros being the 5th Hordes faction. He got fed to Blighterghast in order to resolve the athanc/dragon alliance storylines. RIP Charsaug, you impetuous goose.

    Yeah. Wonder what the new faction will be then.

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    In the column of "oh dear god why", Agonizers are no longer solos in the new edition, they're lesser warbeasts.

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  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    In the column of "oh dear god why", Agonizers are no longer solos in the new edition, they're lesser warbeasts.

    Hmm, rules wise I'm not an expert, so what would be the consequences of that? I imagine a number of their rules and stats might change to reflect their status. Lore wise it obviously makes sense, for obvious reasons.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Alternate battle-boxes for the non-battle-box-getting factions for Mark III journeymen leagues:

    Convergence: Syntherion 1, Montior, Galvanizer, Diffuser

    Mercenaries (1 of 2): Magnus 1, Mangler, Rover

    Mercenaries (2 of 2): Ossrum 1, Driller, Blaster, 2 x Gunners

    Minions (1 of 2): Helga 1, War Hog, Battle Boar, 2 x Razor Boars

    Minions (2 of 2): Barnabas 1, Wrastler, Boneswarm, Bull Snapper

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    New insider's up, talking about reach on melee weapons.

    All heavies will have 1" melee at the minimum, and they've gone through and re-evaluated everything's melee ranges so they make sense. Some units like KE and Troll Champs now have a 1" melee range.
    There will still be spells and abilities that effect a model/unit's melee RNG, such as the Swamp Horror's animus Elasticity, which now reads: Target friendly Faction model’s melee weapons become RNG 2. Elasticity lasts for one turn.
    Lance - This weapon can be used only to make charge attacks. This weapon’s RNG is 0 unless this model charges. When this model charges, this weapon’s RNG is 2 until the charge attack is resolved.

    Unrelated, it's been confirmed there's new Cog stuff coming in their new Force book.

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    And yet another Insider.

    Character restrictions are gone in multi-list events. Increased amount of terrain per table.

    Also a new game type called Rumble, which is played on a 30"x30" table. Special scenarios for it.
    In Rumble, the game is played on a 30″ x 30″ table or play area. Rumble games come with their own set of unique scenarios specifically designed for quicker engagement with players beginning the game so close to each other. Once you get started, a Rumble game feels like you’ve just started a WARMACHINE game on a 4′ x 4′ table right around the third round in terms of model positioning.

    Of course, the big issue we had to solve with Rumble was turn-one caster assassinations. I won’t bog down this Insider with all the exact rules language, but the basic gist is that each player begins the game with only their Advance Deploy models in play. The rules then detail how on each player’s first turn, the rest of that player’s models either advance onto the table as if they were marching onto the battlefield from their table edge or are placed in play (for those models that can’t advance normally). After both players’ first turn is over, all of the models are in play, and everything carries on like normal, but this does mean that on the first player’s first turn, his or her opponent’s caster isn’t even on the table (because the opponent hasn’t resolved the step at the beginning of his turn to march forces onto the field).

    Thus, the first player gets to advance up the field and prepare for an alpha strike early on, but the second player gets to effectively “deploy” in response to the first player’s entire turn and prepare his or her own counterattack. In our testing, we found that Rumble games play fast and furious yet aren’t that different from standard-sized games of WARMACHINE & HORDES. I expect that the meta of Rumble games will be slightly different than that of standard-sized games, simply due to the space restrictions that some casters will love and some will…well, have to deal with.

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  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Character restrictions being gone is a really obvious move, in my opinion. Characters shouldn't be balanced any differently from any other model, so having metagame restrictions on them shouldn't be necessary.

  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks OaklandRegistered User regular
    I remember that people generally thought character restrictions were good, and prevented stuff like every list having Gorman/Eyriss/B13/Tartarus/etc. It helped diversify and force tournament players to make actual choices. I'm curious to see how removing it shapes new lists.

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    I remember that people generally thought character restrictions were good, and prevented stuff like every list having Gorman/Eyriss/B13/Tartarus/etc. It helped diversify and force tournament players to make actual choices. I'm curious to see how removing it shapes new lists.

    The reason they were good is because certain combinations become unbalanced. That they're removing them probably has something to do with how they've gone about balancing those characters.

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I remember that people generally thought character restrictions were good, and prevented stuff like every list having Gorman/Eyriss/B13/Tartarus/etc. It helped diversify and force tournament players to make actual choices. I'm curious to see how removing it shapes new lists.

    They were good in Mk2 because characters, particularly mercs, were poorly balanced.

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    I like the idea of Rumble. Maybe now certain Cryx players will actually have to risk taking a punch to the face!

    But I ain't mad.

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Oh, hey. Speaking of terrain...
    "Toe-ing in" is no longer a thing. Terrain features like forests and clouds only provide their benefit to models completely within that terrain feature. Similarly clouds only provide concealment to a model completely within the cloud.

    Hills too.

    You still stuffer the movement penalty for rough terrain as soon as you hit it, you just no longer get the benefits unless you are completely within the feature.

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  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    That explains the changes to the trencher smoke bombs

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Cryx designer notes and overview went up. Has a bunch of new cards.

    Also:
    Speed debuffs no longer mean you can't charge.

    PMAvers on
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