@Pixelated Pixie thinks its amusing to gift things to people, then message them until they tab out of games so they can be surprised. Evil evil woman. Thank you so much for Crypt of the Necrodancer.
@Pixelated Pixie thinks its amusing to gift things to people, then message them until they tab out of games so they can be surprised. Evil evil woman. Thank you so much for Crypt of the Necrodancer.
I wouldn't call that "evil" exactly....... notoriously generous perhaps?
0
ShimshaiFlush with Success!Isle of EmeraldRegistered Userregular
Guys, Firefall is now free to play and amazingly fun and awesome. If blowing shit up is your thing, you should get into firefall! If you want to get into firefall, be sure to go to the firefall thread or message me to get a referral code, so you can get free RedBeans if you ever decide to spend RL Money on the cash shop. (Redbeans are the currency, so if you buy some redbeans you get an extra pack of 10 for you and me)
Oh. Red beans.
I see...
Give me a sister, I can't resist her
Red beans and rice didn't miss her.
Don't mistake this for me saying I don't like the game. I can see where it shines. It is just more old-school, in visuals, mechanics and most importantly difficulty than I am used to. Honestly, if the game were to be remade now with modern graphics and game mechanics (and dear god controller support instead of me having to rig it), it would almost certainly be a favorite of mine, regardless of my poor aim. As it stands, the story and atmosphere have been engaging, but many other facets of the game remind me of how far games have come in the last 15 years.
For me it is the opposite, I hate that games have been dumbed down to hold your hand to the point of practically being movies instead of games now.
I don't need big arrows pointing exactly where to go at all times
I don't need "streamlined mechanics" which is usually insulting in its simplicity
I miss games making me think, and reason
System Shock 2 is a survival horror game at its heart, every bullet is vitally important and health/psi are things you have to ration in a constant risk/reward equation.
I'm not asking for a giant arrow showing me where to go (and actually those can get really annoying unless the game world is vast). I'm talking about the fact that voice-over-the-intercom-that-I-don't-trust tells me to do something. Then I need to save and quit "because life", and then there's no intuitive way for me to look up what I'm doing because the game has 10 different menus, many of which could be pulling double duty. I'm not sure why you took "modern mechanics" as "dumbed down mechanics". Were there mechanics that I mentioned that you feel "dumbs down" the experience?
Things are going moderately better since I got past the third floor. I'm still having to quick save/reload too much, but eh . . .
Edit: To clarify, I'd like user friendly. That doesn't mean it has to be "dumbed down", but I'd like a way to, for example, easily switch my psi powers without risking getting shot. I mean, I can do that with my weapons, so why not PSI? That seems like they ran out of buttons, so they ran out of ideas. It's not like I'm even using the number keys, I'm using next/previous keys for weapons.
Kalnaur on
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
Well, if people are going to be nice to me I'm going to be nice right back. How does one do one of those giveaways?
#1 Log into Steam WEBSITE then go to steamgifts.com and log into that.
#2 Make sure you're part of the Penny arcade Adventure Team
#3 Go to giveaways, choose a game from the list, and set up the start times, limit the group membership to PA Adventure team, and post the signature here.
@Pixelated Pixie thinks its amusing to gift things to people, then message them until they tab out of games so they can be surprised. Evil evil woman. Thank you so much for Crypt of the Necrodancer.
Kalnaur man, I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but you're trying really hard to play System Shock 2 in a manner completely different from the way it was designed.
It feels "old school" because it was released in 1999. This was a time when videogames didn't hold your hand - they simply gave you the information you needed to figure something out, and then waited for you to do so. You didn't have a huge objective marker on your map or a big green "FOLLOW" arrow on your HUD. You were lucky if you had a map at all (just ask anyone who played dungeon crawlers back then how many sheets of grid paper they went through drawing their own).
In videogaming history, ninety nine and a half times out of a hundred "streamlining" is code for "dumbing down", either philosophically due to the fact that an enormous percentage of modern gamers are part of the ADD generation and skip dialogue and cutscenes and don't bother reading manuals and then loudly complain "WHERE DO I GO?", or mechanically because consoles are the lead platforms on most multiplats and you have to find a way to get your game to run on a system that only has two sticks and twelve buttons instead of a mouse and keyboard with over a hundred so now every game has regenerating health and context sensitive jump/run/cover/lean buttons that don't do what you want them to do half the time and a two weapon limit.
If you grew up after the turn of the century this might not be a huge deal, because it's all you have ever known. For those of us who are in our late 20s and over it can be frustrating, because we grew up with PC games that assumed that the player was a competent human being that could solve problems on their own instead of an impatient child that would get frustrated if they did not get immediate satisfaction. If I have to go kill an evil wizard, and his location shows up as an objective marker on my minimap as well as a green arrow on my HUD and I walk over and kill him than that's ok I guess, but if I have to ask around town to see if anyone knows where the wizard lives, and hear a rumor that a villager had a run-in with the wizard some time ago, and go find the villager, and he tells me that he will give me the location where he saw the wizard but only if I help him rescue his friend, and then afterward he draws me a crude map of the area, and I find the area, and then I follow the tracks to the wizard's hut, and then I kill him, well then I've done something of note. I was given a problem, and I found a way to solve it on my own. I had to actually work to get the solution, instead of "Follow this arrow". Some people might call that "padding", but I call it "gameplay".
This is the difference between old games and new games, and it is why I cringed so hard that it registered on the Richter scale when you said that System Shock 2 should be remade with "modern mechanics".
If you don't want to play an oldschool RPG/FPS than that's fine, but don't sit there trying to eat spaghetti with chopsticks and then complain about how bad the eating experience is.
ShogunHair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get alongRegistered Userregular
It is also a Looking Glass game same guys who did Thief 1 and 2. These are also games known for dropping you in a huge sprawling area with a shitty map. This was their M.O.
Okay, SmokeStacks, I am a late 20-something and I generally can't stand the older games because those mechanics you tout as "not holding your hand"? They're tedious and pad the game time for the most part. They're a relic of a bygone age that existed only because of how new it was. Making an intuitive and user-friendly UI is not "dumbing down" anything and to be honest when I see people say anything like that I write off their opinion as pure nostalgia, which does not actually age well.
I'm not trying to eat spaghetti with chopsticks. I'm trying to eat spaghetti with a fork that's five feet long. Why am I wasting time maneuvering the giant fork to take a bite when I can find some other spaghetti that's just as tasty with a nice-sized fork that fits well in my hand.
Okay, SmokeStacks, I am a late 20-something and I generally can't stand the older games because those mechanics you tout as "not holding your hand"? They're tedious and pad the game time for the most part. They're a relic of a bygone age that existed only because of how new it was. Making an intuitive and user-friendly UI is not "dumbing down" anything and to be honest when I see people say anything like that I write off their opinion as pure nostalgia, which does not actually age well.
I'm not trying to eat spaghetti with chopsticks. I'm trying to eat spaghetti with a fork that's five feet long. Why am I wasting time maneuvering the giant fork to take a bite when I can find some other spaghetti that's just as tasty with a nice-sized fork that fits well in my hand.
That's fair.
If you dislike archaic game mechanics in favor of modern game mechanics than naturally you would want to play modern games instead of archaic ones. If you play an older game that was designed with late 90s sensibilities and then get discouraged because it doesn't feature modern sensibilities than you would be better served playing something new instead of banging your head against the gamedesign of a fifteen year old game that is noted for its complexity. System Shock 2 is what it is, and it can't be anything else.
In other words, stop trying to eat the spaghetti at all, because you clearly do not like spaghetti. Maybe try the BioShock Lasagna instead.
Well I definitely don't want Russian Scammers to get my gifts! But whatever. I wasn't planning on doing a giveaway just yet anyways. Is there a multiplayer game that a lot of you are playing right now?
I love both sides. Unfortunately for me, I don't have time to map a 12 page dungeon on grid paper anymore. I have to work. I have school so I can get a better job. I have a son. I have a wife. I have another Human Resource on the way.
I like having a map that fills in as you explore. I like an auto journal that writes down info when you find it, easy to reference. I could do those, but just easier, and saves on paper. I don't need an arrow to point me the right way. I don't think the that all old school problems were good. Lets look at Link has spoiler - The Gabriel Knight 4 - Worst problem ever.
Anyway, I think everyone has good points for why they like whatever it is they like. My suggestion? Enjoy games. If you like it; enjoy. If you don't; move on. We all have backlogs the size of, well a lot. Want to know the story? Watch a Lets Play. That is what I do.
No if I was only at home and could play some games.
I agree @DyasAlure. I do think there's a way that game designers haven't quite stumbled on yet to capture the best parts of old games (namely freedom and feeling of agency/accomplishment without the annoyance of struggling against archaic and unfriendly systems. We're getting close with some games but we're not there yet. I love the feeling that I accomplished something in a game, but not at the expense of wasting my very limited free time having no idea what I'm supposed to be doing or what I'm doing wrong.
Kalnaur man, I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but you're trying really hard to play System Shock 2 in a manner completely different from the way it was designed.
It feels "old school" because it was released in 1999. This was a time when videogames didn't hold your hand - they simply gave you the information you needed to figure something out, and then waited for you to do so. You didn't have a huge objective marker on your map or a big green "FOLLOW" arrow on your HUD. You were lucky if you had a map at all (just ask anyone who played dungeon crawlers back then how many sheets of grid paper they went through drawing their own).
In videogaming history, ninety nine and a half times out of a hundred "streamlining" is code for "dumbing down", either philosophically due to the fact that an enormous percentage of modern gamers are part of the ADD generation and skip dialogue and cutscenes and don't bother reading manuals and then loudly complain "WHERE DO I GO?", or mechanically because consoles are the lead platforms on most multiplats and you have to find a way to get your game to run on a system that only has two sticks and twelve buttons instead of a mouse and keyboard with over a hundred so now every game has regenerating health and context sensitive jump/run/cover/lean buttons that don't do what you want them to do half the time and a two weapon limit.
If you grew up after the turn of the century this might not be a huge deal, because it's all you have ever known. For those of us who are in our late 20s and over it can be frustrating, because we grew up with PC games that assumed that the player was a competent human being that could solve problems on their own instead of an impatient child that would get frustrated if they did not get immediate satisfaction. If I have to go kill an evil wizard, and his location shows up as an objective marker on my minimap as well as a green arrow on my HUD and I walk over and kill him than that's ok I guess, but if I have to ask around town to see if anyone knows where the wizard lives, and hear a rumor that a villager had a run-in with the wizard some time ago, and go find the villager, and he tells me that he will give me the location where he saw the wizard but only if I help him rescue his friend, and then afterward he draws me a crude map of the area, and I find the area, and then I follow the tracks to the wizard's hut, and then I kill him, well then I've done something of note. I was given a problem, and I found a way to solve it on my own. I had to actually work to get the solution, instead of "Follow this arrow". Some people might call that "padding", but I call it "gameplay".
This is the difference between old games and new games, and it is why I cringed so hard that it registered on the Richter scale when you said that System Shock 2 should be remade with "modern mechanics".
If you don't want to play an oldschool RPG/FPS than that's fine, but don't sit there trying to eat spaghetti with chopsticks and then complain about how bad the eating experience is.
Eh. I feel SS2 is a dumber and more commercially appealing game compared to SS. The maps got a lot smaller, more linearly constrained and handholdy, with generally only one objective at a time. The cyberware, weapons (I'm thinking grenades & mines) and meds got severely nerfed. Cyberspace was removed entirely. I feel the RPG system was grafted on awkwardly, and regard it the way you apparently do modern mechanics; people don't feel like they're progressing unless they get points to allocate, so they tried to cater to that. But with the best will in the world the SS1 controls were kind of bad. The designers themselves kick themselves over not coming up with mouselook first. And for SS2 nostalgia over old school is well and good, but when I think of Helloween's Let's Play and all those ladders... I don't think people fall off of ladders all the time in real life.
As far as Kalnaur's complaints go, it helps if you write on your maps. SS 1 & 2 don't have auto-journals (although I think Ultima Underworld did, so that's a little weird), but you can annotate your maps to keep track of what you're doing, as well as all the passwords that people in SS-land are constantly blurting into their video logs. And I wouldn't mess with psi on a first playthrough, especially if it feels punishing now. A few of the powers are great, some are useful and a lot are garbage. I think it would be better to try them after you have a better grasp on managing combat and the other resources.
In case anyone wanted the Race '07 and GTR Evolution bundle that PC Gamer was giving away, but didin't feel like jumping through the Facebook hoops to get it:
Loading...?
Race '07 is a lot of fun, it's normally only $4 and there are a bunch of different super cheap DLC packs for different racing leagues that include new cars and tracks. To buy them all would set you back around $35, but you can only buy leagues that you like or have cars that you fancy instead if you want.
It's a perfect example of an "a la carte" game done right.
all those ladders... I don't think people fall off of ladders all the time in real life.
Videogame ladders have always been godawful.
You think climbing ladders in Source is awful? Try building them. You have to place the physical ladder object, and then create an invisible climbable block inside the ladder, and then you have to set ladder entry/exit points.
The best ladders I have ever seen were in Killzone. You hit the button, and your dude grabbed the ladder, and you could actually see your arms and hands moving and grabbing rungs as you moved him up or down, none of that "climb up a ladder with my back to the rungs at 30mph while simultaneously reloading my M16" nonsense.
In case anyone wanted the Race '07 and GTR Evolution bundle that PC Gamer was giving away, but didin't feel like jumping through the Facebook hoops to get it:
Loading...?
Race '07 is a lot of fun, it's normally only $4 and there are a bunch of different super cheap DLC packs for different racing leagues that include new cars and tracks. To buy them all would set you back around $35, but you can only buy leagues that you like or have cars that you fancy instead if you want.
It's a perfect example of an "a la carte" game done right.
STOLE YOUR CODE WOO. Thankstacks.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
all those ladders... I don't think people fall off of ladders all the time in real life.
Videogame ladders have always been godawful.
You think climbing ladders in Source is awful? Try building them. You have to place the physical ladder object, and then create an invisible climbable block inside the ladder, and then you have to set ladder entry/exit points.
The best ladders I have ever seen were in Killzone. You hit the button, and your dude grabbed the ladder, and you could actually see your arms and hands moving and grabbing rungs as you moved him up or down, none of that "climb up a ladder with my back to the rungs at 30mph while simultaneously reloading my M16" nonsense.
Ladders do seem like the sort of thing that realistically should take most of the control of your character except for up/down. Man I hate ladders in real life. Ugh..
Also I find most modern games go way too far in the hand holding/constrained direction and most old games I play feel janky and unplayable due to their mechanics or dependence on exploration killing the pacing (looking at you Thief).
Would be nice if more games could find a middle ground where they rely on players to not be stupid but still provide enough tools to prevent complete dead stops in progress.
So both Farcry 4 and the new Assassins creed went up on steam for 60 bucks (USD) but for us Aussies! so has Ubisoft finally woken up and stopped being dicks or pricing error? i'm hoping its not a pricing error and that this is a sign that other companies can start following...
@SmokeStacks, that was an impressive rant and raised a lot of valid points. It was also at Kalnaur's expense. Kalnaur is playing a classic game and talking about his experience with it, something we do in the Steam thread all the time. Your point directed at him is explicitly, "love it or leave it (or shut up about not loving it)," which is kind of crummy.
Posts
I wouldn't call that "evil" exactly....... notoriously generous perhaps?
Give me a sister, I can't resist her
Red beans and rice didn't miss her.
Last call on this game that I don't know anything about.
Yeah, uh ... about that?
I guess John Romero's finally about to make me his bitch.
Thanks, @jclast!
ED: For some reason, I can't get the picture to upload at the moment.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Shadowrun Online for 10 bucks. Haven't really followed this much, anyone kickstart it and have impressions?
Whoa hold the fuck on, theres a new shadowrun thats got online? FML. Someone tell me its not good.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
I'm not asking for a giant arrow showing me where to go (and actually those can get really annoying unless the game world is vast). I'm talking about the fact that voice-over-the-intercom-that-I-don't-trust tells me to do something. Then I need to save and quit "because life", and then there's no intuitive way for me to look up what I'm doing because the game has 10 different menus, many of which could be pulling double duty. I'm not sure why you took "modern mechanics" as "dumbed down mechanics". Were there mechanics that I mentioned that you feel "dumbs down" the experience?
Things are going moderately better since I got past the third floor. I'm still having to quick save/reload too much, but eh . . .
Edit: To clarify, I'd like user friendly. That doesn't mean it has to be "dumbed down", but I'd like a way to, for example, easily switch my psi powers without risking getting shot. I mean, I can do that with my weapons, so why not PSI? That seems like they ran out of buttons, so they ran out of ideas. It's not like I'm even using the number keys, I'm using next/previous keys for weapons.
#1 Log into Steam WEBSITE then go to steamgifts.com and log into that.
#2 Make sure you're part of the Penny arcade Adventure Team
#3 Go to giveaways, choose a game from the list, and set up the start times, limit the group membership to PA Adventure team, and post the signature here.
The OP has better information.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
If the developers don't have a secret Labyrinth themed level with a demonic David Bowie, they are surely missing out.
*checks email, gets Evolve alpha invite*
...Shit.
It feels "old school" because it was released in 1999. This was a time when videogames didn't hold your hand - they simply gave you the information you needed to figure something out, and then waited for you to do so. You didn't have a huge objective marker on your map or a big green "FOLLOW" arrow on your HUD. You were lucky if you had a map at all (just ask anyone who played dungeon crawlers back then how many sheets of grid paper they went through drawing their own).
In videogaming history, ninety nine and a half times out of a hundred "streamlining" is code for "dumbing down", either philosophically due to the fact that an enormous percentage of modern gamers are part of the ADD generation and skip dialogue and cutscenes and don't bother reading manuals and then loudly complain "WHERE DO I GO?", or mechanically because consoles are the lead platforms on most multiplats and you have to find a way to get your game to run on a system that only has two sticks and twelve buttons instead of a mouse and keyboard with over a hundred so now every game has regenerating health and context sensitive jump/run/cover/lean buttons that don't do what you want them to do half the time and a two weapon limit.
If you grew up after the turn of the century this might not be a huge deal, because it's all you have ever known. For those of us who are in our late 20s and over it can be frustrating, because we grew up with PC games that assumed that the player was a competent human being that could solve problems on their own instead of an impatient child that would get frustrated if they did not get immediate satisfaction. If I have to go kill an evil wizard, and his location shows up as an objective marker on my minimap as well as a green arrow on my HUD and I walk over and kill him than that's ok I guess, but if I have to ask around town to see if anyone knows where the wizard lives, and hear a rumor that a villager had a run-in with the wizard some time ago, and go find the villager, and he tells me that he will give me the location where he saw the wizard but only if I help him rescue his friend, and then afterward he draws me a crude map of the area, and I find the area, and then I follow the tracks to the wizard's hut, and then I kill him, well then I've done something of note. I was given a problem, and I found a way to solve it on my own. I had to actually work to get the solution, instead of "Follow this arrow". Some people might call that "padding", but I call it "gameplay".
This is the difference between old games and new games, and it is why I cringed so hard that it registered on the Richter scale when you said that System Shock 2 should be remade with "modern mechanics".
If you don't want to play an oldschool RPG/FPS than that's fine, but don't sit there trying to eat spaghetti with chopsticks and then complain about how bad the eating experience is.
Gift sent. Feelings felt. We all had a good laugh. It had to end sometime.
You are now officially an old man yelling at kids to get off your lawn.
Shogun Streams Vidya
I'm not trying to eat spaghetti with chopsticks. I'm trying to eat spaghetti with a fork that's five feet long. Why am I wasting time maneuvering the giant fork to take a bite when I can find some other spaghetti that's just as tasty with a nice-sized fork that fits well in my hand.
That's fair.
If you dislike archaic game mechanics in favor of modern game mechanics than naturally you would want to play modern games instead of archaic ones. If you play an older game that was designed with late 90s sensibilities and then get discouraged because it doesn't feature modern sensibilities than you would be better served playing something new instead of banging your head against the gamedesign of a fifteen year old game that is noted for its complexity. System Shock 2 is what it is, and it can't be anything else.
In other words, stop trying to eat the spaghetti at all, because you clearly do not like spaghetti. Maybe try the BioShock Lasagna instead.
Steam ID: Good Life
I can't believe I didn't know about this until now.
No no no no no no no!
You can limit a giveaway to groups. We do that to limit it to people on these boards and not crazy russian scammers.
No offense to actual russians.
You could make a whole bunch of public giveaways, but we'd have to compete with people that cruise steam gifts for free games.
If you want to make it for people in this thread, you would need to be a part of the Adventure team and then set the group requirement to the team.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Steam | XBL
I like having a map that fills in as you explore. I like an auto journal that writes down info when you find it, easy to reference. I could do those, but just easier, and saves on paper. I don't need an arrow to point me the right way. I don't think the that all old school problems were good. Lets look at Link has spoiler - The Gabriel Knight 4 - Worst problem ever.
Anyway, I think everyone has good points for why they like whatever it is they like. My suggestion? Enjoy games. If you like it; enjoy. If you don't; move on. We all have backlogs the size of, well a lot. Want to know the story? Watch a Lets Play. That is what I do.
No if I was only at home and could play some games.
Eh. I feel SS2 is a dumber and more commercially appealing game compared to SS. The maps got a lot smaller, more linearly constrained and handholdy, with generally only one objective at a time. The cyberware, weapons (I'm thinking grenades & mines) and meds got severely nerfed. Cyberspace was removed entirely. I feel the RPG system was grafted on awkwardly, and regard it the way you apparently do modern mechanics; people don't feel like they're progressing unless they get points to allocate, so they tried to cater to that. But with the best will in the world the SS1 controls were kind of bad. The designers themselves kick themselves over not coming up with mouselook first. And for SS2 nostalgia over old school is well and good, but when I think of Helloween's Let's Play and all those ladders... I don't think people fall off of ladders all the time in real life.
As far as Kalnaur's complaints go, it helps if you write on your maps. SS 1 & 2 don't have auto-journals (although I think Ultima Underworld did, so that's a little weird), but you can annotate your maps to keep track of what you're doing, as well as all the passwords that people in SS-land are constantly blurting into their video logs. And I wouldn't mess with psi on a first playthrough, especially if it feels punishing now. A few of the powers are great, some are useful and a lot are garbage. I think it would be better to try them after you have a better grasp on managing combat and the other resources.
Loading...?
Race '07 is a lot of fun, it's normally only $4 and there are a bunch of different super cheap DLC packs for different racing leagues that include new cars and tracks. To buy them all would set you back around $35, but you can only buy leagues that you like or have cars that you fancy instead if you want.
It's a perfect example of an "a la carte" game done right.
Videogame ladders have always been godawful.
You think climbing ladders in Source is awful? Try building them. You have to place the physical ladder object, and then create an invisible climbable block inside the ladder, and then you have to set ladder entry/exit points.
The best ladders I have ever seen were in Killzone. You hit the button, and your dude grabbed the ladder, and you could actually see your arms and hands moving and grabbing rungs as you moved him up or down, none of that "climb up a ladder with my back to the rungs at 30mph while simultaneously reloading my M16" nonsense.
STOLE YOUR CODE WOO. Thankstacks.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
Ladders do seem like the sort of thing that realistically should take most of the control of your character except for up/down. Man I hate ladders in real life. Ugh..
Also I find most modern games go way too far in the hand holding/constrained direction and most old games I play feel janky and unplayable due to their mechanics or dependence on exploration killing the pacing (looking at you Thief).
Would be nice if more games could find a middle ground where they rely on players to not be stupid but still provide enough tools to prevent complete dead stops in progress.
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2