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This is why we need another [Feminism Thread].

ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
edited August 2014 in Social Entropy++
Fishman wrote: »
Trigger warning: Christy Mack hospitalised after assault
- detailed written account and graphic images. I would nest this under multiple spoilers if I still could.

about 2 am Friday morning, Jon Koppenhaver arrived unannounced to my home in Las Vegas, NV, after he broke up with me in May, he moved out of my house and back to San Diego. When he arrived, he found myself and one other fully clothed and unarmed in the house. Without a single word spoken, he began beating my friend; once he was finished, he sent my friend away and turned his attention to me. He made me undress and shower in front of him, then dragged me out and beat my face. I have no recollection of how many times I was hit, I just know my injuries that resulted from my beating. My injuries include 18 broken bones around my eyes, my nose is broken in 2 places, I am missing teeth and several more are broken. I am unable to chew, or see out of my left eye. My speach is slurred from my swelling and lack of teeth. I have a fractured rib and severely ruptured liver from a kick to my side. My leg is so badly injured I have not been able to walk on my own. I also attained several lesions from a knife he got from my kitchen. He pushed the knife into me in some areas such as my hand, ear, and head. He also sawed much of my hair off with this dull knife.

... that's just part of the account. It's truly horrible, but I'm also proud of her for not being quiet about it, for releasing the statement and pictures and not being a silent victim.



- And because
JoeUser wrote: »
Well 2014 sure is something

Rape charges 'have become a fashion' in India, says Shiv Sena party

"A rightwing Indian party has said rape charges have "become a fashion" in the country.

The hardline Hindu nationalist party Shiv Sena made the comments in an article supporting a police officer who has been accused of rape. It questioned victims' intentions for reporting crimes, saying rape allegations were "good weapons to seek personal revenge"."

- And this guy mentioned in this article exists
Fearghaill wrote: »

- And someone thought hanging this was a good idea...
Oh hey that reminds me of something shitty I saw today (trigger warning)
Disappointed in you, NHS. I thought you were cool.
...and doesn't see what the problem is.

- Because the other day I learned what a TERF is, and it made me sick to my stomach.

- Because all of this completely fucking ignores the fact that anyone can be sexually assaulted or raped by anyone else regardless of gender or sexual orientation, and no victim or survivor of it, regardless of how they identify, should ever have to face scorn for their circumstances by anyone for any reason.

- And most of all, because I shouldn't have to say any of that, but I do, and people would fight me for it.



PS! Here is a good guy:
JohnHam wrote: »
In general, I consider Esquire a terrible magazine, but parts of this article made me start to tear up. It's about a Mississippi abortion doctor who is basically an incredible hero.

http://www.esquire.com/features/abortion-ministry-of-dr-willie-parker-0914

And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
ceres on
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Posts

  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    One of my favorite tumblr blogs that I'd been following for years went TERF a few weeks ago, and I'm super sad for it, because the young woman who runs that blog is so smart and should've been better than that

    TERF logic is just kinda sickening, albeit not quite as sickening as rape deniers, et. al.

  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    I should note here that TERF tumblrs are super super rare, which is why it's shocking

  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    So I know I am going to get in trouble for this and will apologize in advance. The anger over the NHS poster confuses me. The way it was edited is, of course, totally fair and that makes sense. My confusion is why trying to draw attention to the prevalence of date rape is bad? I have seen a couple of friends after someone has slipped something in their drink, and have always been grateful that everyone with me basically circles the wagons at that stage and gets em home quick. I am also shocked when other people won't do this for friends. Is it the language that causes the problem? I am guessing it is worded as to be more dismissive and victim blamey than I am reading it and that's why I am not getting it. What I am getting at is how do I warn people about shit heads who prey on unaware drinkers without becoming a shithead myself?

  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited August 2014
    It's the victim blaming, yeah

    And yeah the proper response to someone being a date rapist is to pretty much ostracize them. Ain't nice but just letting it happen while warning vulnerable people about them is a passive endorsement of their behavior, whether or not you mean to

    Mortal Sky on
  • FyndirFyndir Registered User regular
    A few of my favourites from the "I need feminism" sign pictures I've seen.

    JmKKj98.jpg

    lwuIHBU.jpg

    QftQgL4.jpg

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2014
    It doesn't say "Guard your drink", it doesn't say "Look out for your friends", it says "If you drink, you might get raped (subtext: so don't drink)"

    Which is on the spectrum of don't wear certain clothes, don't wear high heels, don't go outside, don't have a life and maybe just maybe you'll pull off the elusive magic trick of "not being in the presence of a rapist at the wrong time."

    So yeah, this poster completely deflects attention away from the cause of rape and onto the behaviour of the victims. It's not the drinking that causes the problem.

    tynic on
  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    That last one is amazing.

    Regarding the NHS poster I think the most egregious thing is that it was not even for a campaign about sexual violence, it was for an anti-drinking one, so not only is it victim blaming, but it is also using it in an (at least in my opinion) unnecessary manner as there are plenty of other awful things that can happen to you after one too many that they could have chosen from.

    7qmGNt5.png
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    A poster with actual, direct, cause-and-effect consequences of drinking could be good. Like, puking in an alleyway while your friends hold your hair back. Receiving intravenous fluids from a sarcastic nurse and taking up valuable hospital space.

    I think there was an "drink moderately" ad campaign in australia along those lines actually. It was mostly people making complete idiots of themselves while their more sober friends cringed.

  • TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    It's displaying going out for a drink and getting raped as cause and effect with no blame placed on the actual rapist.

    Also it's a horrible, triggering image.

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Seriously, what the actual fuck, with that image. It's like something right out of my nightmares.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    A poster with actual, direct, cause-and-effect consequences of drinking could be good. Like, puking in an alleyway while your friends hold your hair back. Receiving intravenous fluids from a sarcastic nurse and taking up valuable hospital space.

    I think there was an "drink moderately" ad campaign in australia along those lines actually. It was mostly people making complete idiots of themselves while their more sober friends cringed.

    maybe a bit NSFW?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo_49X7B53o

    ?

  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    Fyndir wrote: »
    lwuIHBU.jpg

    Honestly the taboos around menstruation (and really any vaginal function outside of baby making) are kinda stupid and not teaching youth in general about them better is one of our bigger failings as a culture

    Everything from hair to discharges to smells to the clitoris just seems to go ignored in sex Ed where the penis gets every little thing asplained to the wee kiddies

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    the new yorker had an article this week about the issues between trans- and radical feminist groups, it was pretty interesting

    also fairly depressing, but, you know

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Ah thanks for clarifying then. I have an odd grasp of language and miss a lot of the subtle stuff at times. Thank fully I default more to "make sure you have a friend keep an eye on you" for nights out on town for people I know. As mentioned previously a date rapist ain't the only problem you might have when bar hopping.

  • TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    "kinda" stupid?

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    That last one is amazing.

    Regarding the NHS poster I think the most egregious thing is that it was not even for a campaign about sexual violence, it was for an anti-drinking one, so not only is it victim blaming, but it is also using it in an (at least in my opinion) unnecessary manner as there are plenty of other awful things that can happen to you after one too many that they could have chosen from.

    anti drinking and anti drunk driving ads in Canada have gotten kinda bonkers in the last couple years, i don't know how it rolls in other countries but some of them are pretty appalling

    it's like in trying to make a legit point (hey! don't drink and drive! hey! maybe don't get passed out drunk! binge drinking is dumb and bad!) they feel they need to use shock tactics and equate it to other horrid things or make it seem inevitable or at fault or something and they end up making some way more offensive point

    i can't find it online but a few years back there was a big uproar on university campuses in Ontario because the local MADD affiliate decided to put a poster up on campuses that was essentially like the bizarro version of that poster; its target audience was binge-drinking young men and was basically like "if you binge drink you might do really awful things like rape someone, even if you aren't normally a rapist"

    like, that wasn't what the ad said, of course, but the way it was written and presented essentially gave that impression. people got pretty mad! feminist groups got super mad because it basically like treated date rape as if it was something dudes did when they were drunk and in some way was less their fault and more "the booze made me do it" or some bullshit and even shitty MRA people got angry about it because it implied lurking inside an average dude is a rapist who only needs to be drunk to come out. it was a weird thing to see those two disparate groups come together against something!

    all because college binge drinking is a very real problem and the people trying to find it are jack-asses about how to get that message across

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    PSAs were always better directed towards potential perpetrators rather than victims anyway

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    Fyndir wrote: »
    lwuIHBU.jpg

    I did not know this
    what the what

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    the problem is that the people doing the messaging on that kind of thing, almost uniformly, do not understand their audience

    like, what's shocking to you isn't necessarily shocking to your audience! (weird, right?) And once they figure this out they tend to just go off the deep end, which winds up making them look foolish at best or like assholes at worst.

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Related: a good article I read this week on the bystander effect. A large component of the article addresses sexual assault, since that's one that seems particularly easy for people to turn a blind eye to (also warning: it's not graphic but could be triggering, I certainly found it confronting)

    http://aeon.co/magazine/living-together/how-we-can-get-bystanders-to-help-victims-of-crime/

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2014
    Time to introduce Mrs. Period

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • smofsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Somewhat topical?

    I just took a delivery where in the instructions the customer had written "female driver if possible" Which... creepy. I happen to be the only female driver we have so lucky them I guess.

    I showed this to a co-worker whose (entirely predictable) response was to laugh and say "you gonna get raped."

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Tam wrote: »
    Fyndir wrote: »
    lwuIHBU.jpg

    I did not know this
    what the what

    Well it probably depends on the country, I don't know about the US.

    (Also, that stuff is wayyyyyyy cheaper here in the UK than in australia, but that's probably just reflecting our general goods prices being batshit bananas)

    And there was that article that did the rounds a few months ago about the dude in India trying to make cheaper menstruation products for rural women.

  • JohnHamJohnHam Registered User regular
    the new yorker had an article this week about the issues between trans- and radical feminist groups, it was pretty interesting

    also fairly depressing, but, you know

    This is a good piece to real in-parallel with that one, from the trans activist interviewed in the article. Talks about the interview process and what did and didn't make it into the article itself.

    http://juliaserano.blogspot.ca/2014/07/two-articles-related-to-femininity-and.html

    signature.png

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Somewhat topical?

    I just took a delivery where in the instructions the customer had written "female driver if possible" Which... creepy. I happen to be the only female driver we have so lucky them I guess.

    I showed this to a co-worker whose (entirely predictable) response was to laugh and say "you gonna get raped."

    Honestly my first thought would have been it was an order from a woman living alone

  • TamTam Registered User regular
    Somewhat topical?

    I just took a delivery where in the instructions the customer had written "female driver if possible" Which... creepy. I happen to be the only female driver we have so lucky them I guess.

    I showed this to a co-worker whose (entirely predictable) response was to laugh and say "you gonna get raped."

    so does he still say that after you punched him in the mouth

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Somewhat topical?

    I just took a delivery where in the instructions the customer had written "female driver if possible" Which... creepy. I happen to be the only female driver we have so lucky them I guess.

    I showed this to a co-worker whose (entirely predictable) response was to laugh and say "you gonna get raped."

    Yeah that's a pretty awful thing to say

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    Tam wrote: »
    Fyndir wrote: »
    lwuIHBU.jpg

    I did not know this
    what the what

    Well it probably depends on the country, I don't know about the US.

    (Also, that stuff is wayyyyyyy cheaper here in the UK than in australia, but that's probably just reflecting our general goods prices being batshit bananas)

    And there was that article that did the rounds a few months ago about the dude in India trying to make cheaper menstruation products for rural women.

    The only reason I can think of is that there's a cheaper solution available that doesn't have to be made in a certain way or otherwise you get an infection

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    yeah the cheaper solution is called 'bleeding on everything'

  • TamTam Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    Tam wrote: »
    Fyndir wrote: »
    lwuIHBU.jpg

    I did not know this
    what the what

    Well it probably depends on the country, I don't know about the US.

    (Also, that stuff is wayyyyyyy cheaper here in the UK than in australia, but that's probably just reflecting our general goods prices being batshit bananas)

    And there was that article that did the rounds a few months ago about the dude in India trying to make cheaper menstruation products for rural women.

    I don't think it's a thing in the US
    but I didn't expect that from the UK either

  • LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    You can get the cheaper ones that are a shop's own brand, and they're okay, but not as good.

  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Tam wrote: »
    tynic wrote: »
    Tam wrote: »
    Fyndir wrote: »
    lwuIHBU.jpg

    I did not know this
    what the what

    Well it probably depends on the country, I don't know about the US.

    (Also, that stuff is wayyyyyyy cheaper here in the UK than in australia, but that's probably just reflecting our general goods prices being batshit bananas)

    And there was that article that did the rounds a few months ago about the dude in India trying to make cheaper menstruation products for rural women.

    I don't think it's a thing in the US
    but I didn't expect that from the UK either

    VAT is weird, or at least the VAT/NO VAT criteria are weird. See: Cakes Vs Biscuits.

    7qmGNt5.png
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Now we know why "bloody" is a part of the UK vernacular

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    eh I think that criticism of the goldberg piece is fairly misguided; his article explains the radical feminist reasoning but there's never a time that it isn't appropriately skeptical of it. I know I certainly came away from it thinking Jeffrey is kind of a sleazeball, and I have no particular relevant background in the debate.

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    a while back Cass and I were taking the subway home and standing there chit-chatting and there's this woman standing next to us, against the door frame, minding her own

    up comes some dude who starts with asking her something innocuous (directions, I think?) and she doesn't have the answer to his question and then he starts trying to continue talking to her when she's not really interested, he tries to get details out of her like her name and stuff, and she's super uncomfortable and glancing around but she's trying to be polite. She asks him, politely, to leave her alone and he's like why, what's wrong, I'm just trying to get to know you

    Cass and I look at each other, and do a shared are you seeing what I'm seeing, and nod

    so Cass speaks up, and is like "Hey, leave her alone. She asked you to leave her alone."

    not like, yelling at him, just being firm. Dude looks at her like what the fuck and starts to get all puffed up, and I step in to back up Cass and tell the guy to buzz off

    he gets SUPER HOSTILE towards me, all posturing and shit, and Cass and I literally start chuckling at his display. between the two of us if this guy started shit he'd get wrecked and I'm just like "Walk on, son. Ain't nothin' for you here."

    he realizes the situation is such he can't talk his way or bluster his way out of it, so he just sulks away further down the train and bitches to some other dude, who he apparently knows. i take a gander at them. They're PUA shitbirds working this train, looking for lone women to approach and cajole. what a bunch of fuckstains.

    the pair of them look over at us, and i make sure to give them eye contact and a little chin-jut nod like "yo, sup" just in case they had mind to try to reclaim some shattered pseudo-masculinity by starting shit, i am unconcerned

    the woman thanks Cass and I, and we're like "no problem" and go back to chatting, and kept an eye on those guys so that when that woman got off, they didn't follow her. i'm sure they just moved on and tried their luck down the train with someone else, and short of following them around all day to cockblock them there's not much i can do about that. considered saying something to the TTC but it's something that's very difficult for them to detect or do anything about so, we just sorta did what we could at that moment.

    which, to be frank, is a lot more than a lot of people do in situations like that. Cass and I are super aware of that kind of stuff, Cass because she's been on the receiving end of it before and me because I'm really sensitive to people in distress around me and I very much do enjoy ruining some PUA fuckstain's good time

    but the truth is a lot of people wouldn't have said anything because they wouldn't even necessarily notice something is wrong. The woman wasn't shouting for help. She wasn't raising her voice. She wasn't being aggressive. She was being meek, accommodating, and pleading. When she was like "Please leave me alone" it was said at regular conversational tone and had we not been standing right next to them and sorta been eye-narrowingly observing we wouldn't have noticed, possibly. Anyone looking right at her with an eye for body language would know immediately she was someone in distress who felt uncomfortable and a little bit threatened by this asswipe, but they would've had to look right at her to notice that, and subway etiquette is such that you generally don't do exactly that. You play on your phone or read the paper or look at the floor or talk to people you know or whatever. Most people do not scan around and see what's up with the people around them. I do, but I'm not most people, and I don't necessarily consider it a fault of society that this sort of blitheness is necessarily the norm.

    but this kind of dude, the PUA sleaze, preys on that kind of shit. Shitlord and his buddy here were working this train. they were after "digits" and shit. they're going at women in a situation where they basically cannot easily get away from them, where they're in public which actually in some ways makes them less likely to make a scene, not more, and they prey on the social contract of politeness and interactivity to get in with people and latch on to them until the woman acquiesces just to make them go away.

    the worst part is this is literally a technique PUA bullshit teaches guys to do. they try to couch it in more positive language that doesn't blatantly make them look like sexual predators, but that's ultimately what's going on here.

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    tynic wrote: »
    yeah the cheaper solution is called 'bleeding on everything'
    Blood for the Blood God?

    YL9WnCY.png
  • smofsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    Somewhat topical?

    I just took a delivery where in the instructions the customer had written "female driver if possible" Which... creepy. I happen to be the only female driver we have so lucky them I guess.

    I showed this to a co-worker whose (entirely predictable) response was to laugh and say "you gonna get raped."

    Honestly my first thought would have been it was an order from a woman living alone

    Customer's name was Josh.

    I figured it was a 99.9% chance of being dudebros having a laugh and 0.01% chance of being a psycho rapist.

  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    Pony, you're good people

  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    Smof now I'm imagining a T. rex cabbie in a flat cap driving a London-style cab and smiling forever

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Aw man, I was studying in the library when some dude start chatting up a lady near me. At first I thought they knew each other, but it got really creepy when he was saying that she didn't need to wear makeup or something.

    She shot the guy down pretty handily. I had to resist making a little airplane crashing noise as he left.

    YL9WnCY.png
This discussion has been closed.