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This is why we need another [Feminism Thread].

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Posts

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    So PUAs are basically beggars

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    Mortal Sky wrote: »
    Pony, you're good people

    Cass deserves just as much credit for that instance, she spoke up first, I just backed her play when dude got hostile like he could somehow bullhorn his way over her because she's a woman

    when I stepped in, his hostility got redirected towards me, which is fine, but honestly had I not felt he was one step away from assaulting Cass I would've just let her handle it entirely

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    So PUAs are basically beggars

    Honestly that's doing most beggars a severe disservice.

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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Paladin wrote: »
    So PUAs are basically beggars

    they're the kind of panhandlers who get super-aggressive and don't take "sorry man, don't have any change" for an answer and follow you and if you keep declining it may change from a begging to a mugging

    i'm not calling every PUA a potential rapist but

    wait no

    no that's exactly what I'm doing

    I feel very comfortable with that generalization and if you're a self-identified PUA and that generalization offends you, feel free to have a chat with me about it!

    I'm sure it'll go well for you!

    :D

    Pony on
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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    I openly shit on PUAs as a matter of course because there are some people who just see them as preening peacock assholes or shy losers desperately trying to look for a way to talk to women.

    And while that might be true for some people who are inside the whole PUA thing (especially people who just skim the surface of it, in the latter instance of shy losers), it doesn't change the fact that the entire concept is misogynistic, predatory, and threatening to women. It's a dangerous subculture that allows sexual predators to conceal their behaviors as being legitimate "ladies' men", and dispense misogynistic advice to impressionable young men who are lonely, dateless, and pressured by a patriarchal society that tells them their worth is measured by how many vaginas they can stuff their dick into.

    It's like a big rock that needs to be lifted up so that the light can be shone on the skittering vermin hiding under it, a lot of people just see the odd bug or two skitter out from under the rock on occasion and figure that's an outlier, but the whole fucking thing is a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

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  • FyndirFyndir Registered User regular
    pony that first post was so long I feel certain you started writing it a month ago in preparation for the new feminism thread.

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Fyndir wrote: »
    pony that first post was so long I feel certain you started writing it a month ago in preparation for the new feminism thread.
    Pony suffers not a PUA to live.

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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    Fyndir wrote: »
    pony that first post was so long I feel certain you started writing it a month ago in preparation for the new feminism thread.

    I average about 80 wpm fyndir

    when I'm just doing stream of consciousness yakking, like telling an anecdote or writing whatever is on my mind, rather than copying a specific piece of material or trying to adhere to a specific ruleset of grammar or spelling, it jumps up to about 120 wpm

    it's silly

    GoatmonSlacker71
  • ChicoBlueChicoBlue Registered User regular
    I'm gonna say something a little controversial and I'd appreciate it if you guys would not jump all over me for saying it, but I think that Feminism is a good thing and that is has and will make the world a better place.

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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    ChicoBlue wrote: »
    I'm gonna say something a little controversial and I'd appreciate it if you guys would not jump all over me for saying it, but I think that Feminism is a good thing and that is has and will make the world a better place.

    angry-mob.jpg

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    ChicoBlue wrote: »
    I'm gonna say something a little controversial and I'd appreciate it if you guys would not jump all over me for saying it, but I think that Feminism is a good thing and that is has and will make the world a better place.

    what if we want to jump all over you regardless

    sexily

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  • TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    I am a feminist because I am appalled at the lack of respect and dignity that is afforded to women in our society and how easily ignorable it seems to be.

    I am also a feminist because I feel like feminism respects men such as myself a whole lot more than the patriarchy/mainstream society seems to in that we are intelligent humans with the ability to reason and act with agency rather than a bunch of barely-sentient apes.

    It is frustrating when I see it misrepresented. I'm thankful for these threads because they keep me up-to-date on my education.

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  • NarbusNarbus Registered User regular
    “Preliminary investigations indicate that the athlete is not fit for participation in a female event due to female hyperandrogenism,” SAI said in a press release. “The athlete will still be able to compete in the female category in future if she takes proper medical help and lowers her androgen level to the specified range. We reiterate that these test results do not determine her gender. The test simply tells us that she has excess androgen in her body and is therefore not eligible to compete in the female category.”
    ...
    “Nothing in these regulations is intended to make any determination of sex,” the [official testing document from the IOC] reads. “Instead, these Regulations are designed to identify circumstances in which a particular athlete will not be eligible (by reason of hormonal characteristics) to participate in 2012 OG Competitions in the female category. In the event that the athlete has been declared ineligible to compete in the female category, the athlete may be eligible to compete as a male athlete, if the athlete qualifies for the male event of the sport.”

    From Bustle.


    Goatmon
  • ChicoBlueChicoBlue Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    ChicoBlue wrote: »
    I'm gonna say something a little controversial and I'd appreciate it if you guys would not jump all over me for saying it, but I think that Feminism is a good thing and that is has and will make the world a better place.

    what if we want to jump all over you regardless

    sexily

    I think if you were to pursue that sort assertive and confident action, it may very well serve to bolster my point.

    tynic
  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    "We're totally not making claims about her gender, but for our purposes she is not a woman"

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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    Narbus wrote: »
    “Preliminary investigations indicate that the athlete is not fit for participation in a female event due to female hyperandrogenism,” SAI said in a press release. “The athlete will still be able to compete in the female category in future if she takes proper medical help and lowers her androgen level to the specified range. We reiterate that these test results do not determine her gender. The test simply tells us that she has excess androgen in her body and is therefore not eligible to compete in the female category.”
    ...
    “Nothing in these regulations is intended to make any determination of sex,” the [official testing document from the IOC] reads. “Instead, these Regulations are designed to identify circumstances in which a particular athlete will not be eligible (by reason of hormonal characteristics) to participate in 2012 OG Competitions in the female category. In the event that the athlete has been declared ineligible to compete in the female category, the athlete may be eligible to compete as a male athlete, if the athlete qualifies for the male event of the sport.”

    From Bustle.


    blaaaaaaaaaagh

    the myth of "male muscle" strikes again

    Donovan PuppyfuckerStilts
  • JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    The bizarre debate over female laughter shows Turkey's women need a new deal
    These are interesting times to be a woman in Istanbul. When deputy prime minister Bülent Arinç lectured women to refrain from laughing in public in an Eid al-Fitr address last week, women and men took to social media in protest.

    Much of the remainder of Arinç's speech, however, in which he criticised "moral degeneration" in Turkey, reminding women to be "chaste", was no laughing matter.

  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    "We're totally not making claims about her gender, but for our purposes she is not a woman"

    There's got to be a better way to separate people of different physical groups into sporting categories, but I'm not sure what that might be.

  • MolybdenumMolybdenum Registered User regular
    That's a particularly murky topic because as long as you're defining a category that is "women" you're gonna have to draw the line somewhere. Even if it were just "Men's event" and "Not-Men's event" that still excludes individuals.
    The ideal option is probably a voluntary registration for whatever event category you feel you identify with, with a kind of universal sense of sportsmanship good sporting conduct preventing anyone from taking advantage of it.
    The reality of that kind of setup would probably be a whole lot of very public debate over what should be personal decisions though

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Last thread this came up there was the idea of dividing sports by weight&size, rather than gender. Since the differences between men and women tend to be a result of size rather than men having special muscles.

    -edit, I think it was in the trans* thread?

    I'm interested in what might happen in a 'anything goes' olympics. Everyone competes in the same category, you can use any steroids you want. Maybe you can use prosthetics provided they are powered solely by the body?

    It'd be interesting to see how we could push the limits of human capability. Unfortunately it would probably burn up the athletes into shadows of their former selves.

    Gvzbgul on
    Zibblsnrt
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Last thread this came up there was the idea of dividing sports by weight&size, rather than gender. Since the differences between men and women tend to be a result of size rather than men having special muscles.

    -edit, I think it was in the trans* thread?

    I'm interested in what might happen in a 'anything goes' olympics. Everyone competes in the same category, you can use any steroids you want. Maybe you can use prosthetics provided they are powered solely by the body?

    It'd be interesting to see how we could push the limits of human capability. Unfortunately it would probably burn up the athletes into shadows of their former selves.

    Yeah, it'd lead to a lot of deaths/injuries.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Also weight classes are really weird since they kind of have to be really strict, but weight is something that can also be very malleable, both voluntarily or involuntarily. I can actually appreciate the difficulty athletics organizations face in regards to this issue, because any immediate change will either be seen as insufficient from a gender identity point of view, or extremely dangerous for many athletes, or both.

    Gvzbguldarleysam
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Last thread this came up there was the idea of dividing sports by weight&size, rather than gender. Since the differences between men and women tend to be a result of size rather than men having special muscles.

    I'd be really curious to know the results of testing physical feats of a man and a woman of the same height and weight.

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  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Maybe have tests of actual performance instead of arbitrary physical traits which may or may not translate into achievement.

    Like you're entering a race? Find the average time for your last x number of races. Then match people up with those most similar to them, whether male or female.

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  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Last thread this came up there was the idea of dividing sports by weight&size, rather than gender. Since the differences between men and women tend to be a result of size rather than men having special muscles.

    I'd be really curious to know the results of testing physical feats of a man and a woman of the same height and weight.

    It would be largely identical assuming a similar break down between fat and muscle ratios are maintained. The only real difference is how many you could find. Testosterone helps build muscle mass, and estrogen helps build fat. Overly simplified I admit but I believe it is the idea behind separating them.

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    The rules against doping, including hormone treatments, are fundamentally to protect the atheletes, because as soon as it's allowed, it's effectively mandatory, and the health consequences are pretty horrific.

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  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    Men have very large sporting advantages due to the testosterone/estrogen levels. Women, on average, carry about 10% more bodyweight as fat, and can't drop it as low as men with training, and if you try you may risk your health. For sports this 10% is a huge amount of 'dead weight' that influences nearly everything at the top levels.

    Testosterone levels as a limiter on 'protected class' in sporting events isn't such a weird thought to me. It skirts around a lot of issues gender and biological quirks to a chemical that is very clearly connected to your ability to perform.

    Size/Weight isn't nearly as good an indicator, even in sports that favor small frames (pro-cycling, rock climbing, ice skating, parts of gymnastics off the top of my mind) the bar for male athletes is still higher.

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  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    It'll all be irrelevant when the robots replace athletes.

    YL9WnCY.png
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  • LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Molybdenum wrote: »
    That's a particularly murky topic because as long as you're defining a category that is "women" you're gonna have to draw the line somewhere. Even if it were just "Men's event" and "Not-Men's event" that still excludes individuals.
    The ideal option is probably a voluntary registration for whatever event category you feel you identify with, with a kind of universal sense of sportsmanship good sporting conduct preventing anyone from taking advantage of it.

    That doesn't exist. It's professional sports. They're not there to be nice they're there to win. People would do whatever would make them more likely to win.

    ZibblsnrtKwoaru
  • LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    also I mentioned this in the other thread, but here's the full story:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/23/court-gang-rape-indian-village-birbhum

    Some selected quotes from the article. They are explicit.
    The attack has focused attention on the informal village councils and courts run by local male elders, which are common across much of rural India.

    Although technically illegal, they are frequently responsible for inflicting cruel, sometimes lethal, punishments for supposed social transgressions such as marrying without prior consent. Such courts also frequently oblige relatives to take violent action to restore the "honour" of a community.

    In one incident four years ago in Birbhum , village elders ordered tribal women to strip and walk naked in front of large crowds as a punishment for "unauthorised" relationships.

    India has been hit by a wave of sexual violence – particularly gang-rapes – in recent years. Last week a 51-year-old tourist in Delhi was raped by at least five men who attacked while she was walking back to her hotel. There have been several other similar attacks on foreigners.

    The gang-rape and murder of a 23-year-old Indian woman in Delhi in December 2012 prompted grief and outrage across the country, with thousands taking to the streets in protests demanding tougher laws, better policing and a shift in cultural attitudes.

    The United Nations asked India, the world's second most populous country, to ensure security for women. But although prison terms for rape have been stiffened, stalking made a criminal offence and gender sensitivity programmes introduced for some police officers, little appears to have changed on the ground.

    Birbhum is in West Bengal state, which appears to be a particular blackspot. Last month a worker at a gym was abducted and raped by five men in a truck.

    In October a woman was raped twice by the same group of men, once as she returned from a police station where she had recorded a statement about the first attack, and was then set on fire. She died of her injuries.

    Activists say that in India as few as one in 100 attacks are reported and counted in official records. Fear of social ostracism and of brutal, unsympathetic police limit the number of victims prepared to complain.
    The 13 suspects in Birbhum were remanded in custody. Many villagers blamed the victim. "We will never allow her or her family back here," said Panmuni Tudu, a housewife.

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  • MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Rachel posted a link to a response to the Women Against Feminism thing and a girl she's friends with got on her about it, basically going UGH FEMINISTS ARE ALL RADICAL AND CRAZY MAN-HATERS I'M AN EGALITARIAN NOT LIKE THOSE FEMINISTS

    I was like oh my god what are you doing

    Moriveth on
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  • GoatmonGoatmon Companion of Kess Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Langly wrote: »
    also I mentioned this in the other thread, but here's the full story:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/23/court-gang-rape-indian-village-birbhum

    Some selected quotes from the article. They are explicit.
    The attack has focused attention on the informal village councils and courts run by local male elders, which are common across much of rural India.

    Although technically illegal, they are frequently responsible for inflicting cruel, sometimes lethal, punishments for supposed social transgressions such as marrying without prior consent. Such courts also frequently oblige relatives to take violent action to restore the "honour" of a community.

    In one incident four years ago in Birbhum , village elders ordered tribal women to strip and walk naked in front of large crowds as a punishment for "unauthorised" relationships.

    India has been hit by a wave of sexual violence – particularly gang-rapes – in recent years. Last week a 51-year-old tourist in Delhi was raped by at least five men who attacked while she was walking back to her hotel. There have been several other similar attacks on foreigners.

    The gang-rape and murder of a 23-year-old Indian woman in Delhi in December 2012 prompted grief and outrage across the country, with thousands taking to the streets in protests demanding tougher laws, better policing and a shift in cultural attitudes.

    The United Nations asked India, the world's second most populous country, to ensure security for women. But although prison terms for rape have been stiffened, stalking made a criminal offence and gender sensitivity programmes introduced for some police officers, little appears to have changed on the ground.

    Birbhum is in West Bengal state, which appears to be a particular blackspot. Last month a worker at a gym was abducted and raped by five men in a truck.

    In October a woman was raped twice by the same group of men, once as she returned from a police station where she had recorded a statement about the first attack, and was then set on fire. She died of her injuries.

    Activists say that in India as few as one in 100 attacks are reported and counted in official records. Fear of social ostracism and of brutal, unsympathetic police limit the number of victims prepared to complain.
    The 13 suspects in Birbhum were remanded in custody. Many villagers blamed the victim. "We will never allow her or her family back here," said Panmuni Tudu, a housewife.

    My avatar pretty much says everything I have to say about this. Christ.

    Goatmon on
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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    It'll all be irrelevant when the cybernetically enhanced transhuman disabled replace athletes.

    Zibblsnrt
  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    i had some dude on the bus the other day staring off into the distance and talking loudly to himself about how he could, and i quote, "smell cunt from a thousand miles away"

    it was like something out of wolf fucking creek

    EvilCake
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    Moriveth wrote: »
    Rachel posted a link to a response to the Women Against Feminism thing and a girl she's friends with got on her about it, basically going UGH FEMINISTS ARE ALL RADICAL AND CRAZY MAN-HATERS I'M AN EGALITARIAN NOT LIKE THOSE FEMINISTS

    I was like oh my god what are you doing

    I saw that, I decided not to engage because Rachel seemed to be handling it alright just fine on her own and like, they kinda took a turn into crazy town at the end there.

    The irony of it is, if we're thinking of the same person, they took a dump on "entitled, ingrained victim culture as embodied by 3rd wave tumblr feminists" and then when Rachel tried to address that, went into word-salad mode self-identifying by a bunch of arbitrary labels invented by tumblr in order to clarify how feminism alienates her and doesn't speak for her because she's an egalitarian.

    like

    damn, yo

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  • MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    People equating feminism to man-hating is the most aggravating fucking thing.

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  • UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    edited August 2014
    sup feminism thread?

    thought I'd cross over briefly from the comic book thread because I think it's pretty dang awesome that this month marks the first time that a comic book starring a solo female lead has sold out 5 printings and is now on it's sixth. Only 6 other Marvel books have ever done this.

    on top of this, it's sold even more digital copies than it has print, making Ms. Marvel something truly groundbreaking in an industry that is (finally) realizing that women might want to read comics too, if anyone would just think to include them.

    It's a smart, fun book with a ton of heart, and also does a really neat thing by presenting (super)heroic ideals through the lens of a culture that doesn't often get portrayed as heroic.

    Qj7kxOHl.jpg

    edit: wrong picture

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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    There was actually a salient point that person brought up initially, although it got clogged up in her crazy which meant she missed what's actually going on. The reason for "Women Against Feminism" type bullshit is because feminism is being misrepresented to women by people with an agenda to do so.

    The people with that agenda cherry pick easy ammo, and that easy ammo ranges from historical radical fringes of feminism (Valerie Solanas, Andrea Dworkin) to the modern "shamester" movement among bloggers (Melissa McEwan, Amanda Marcotte) and tumblr and the like, obsessed with trigger warnings and rape culture and being needlessly hostile and inflammatory to the point of alienating anyone reasonable.

    That easy ammo is loaded up and fired into impressionable young women who are presented with a slanted view of what feminism is, was, and currently means, and the sounds of that gunfire is familiar to older women who remember previous firings from older eras (like when Andrea Dworkin was more current).

    These extreme voices are minority voices and while they may be loud voices, they're not nearly as loud as they are when amplified by those with an agenda to make feminism look hideous and unacceptable to other women. This is especially true when this easy ammo is fired into privileged, first world, generally white and middle class women (who make up the overwhelming majority of "Women Against Feminism" type nonsense), because the kind of nonsense that the radicals that are being fired at them scream about just does not apply to their lives in any way they give a shit about, if at all.

    Actual meaningful elements of feminism are de-emphasized and cast aside in this narrative, in favor of sensational presentation of the worst of the worst.

    The end result, which is the desired goal of those with the agenda who are loading the easy ammo, is these women look at the crazy, shrill impression they're getting of feminism, both historical and modern, and put up a hand, push the plate back, and say "No thank you, you don't speak for me".

    The worst part about this is it's like a fusion breeder reactor; you just need to get the process started for the rest of it to power itself. Anti-feminist women will perpetuate the anti-feminist narrative that was spun to them, internalize it, believe it, and spin it to other women and the entire thing can be many steps removed from the people with an agenda who initially started the misrepresentation.

    The same thing happens with queer people, and I know this because I am a first hand example of how this thinking can take root and be awful. I've talked about this before on the forums (and recently, even, in the trans thread), but I went through a period in my youth of effectively blaming Pride movements and many forms of queer activism and flamboyant queer sexuality as if they are the reasons for homophobia and bigotry. That really people would stop caring about this stuff if they just stopped being such fags about the whole thing and conformed more to "normal" societal behaviors, outside of what they do in the bedroom. This was a narrative being spun to me, unknowingly to me at the time, by conservative pundits and individuals within the queer community who were already bought in to this idea. And I helped perpetuate it, because it worked for me. My own privileged life and my own ease with certain issues with being queer were obfuscating what was really going on and why things were better for me. I thought "Well, it's because I didn't do these things, clearly" and that wasn't even remotely true. But that was an easy sell, and there were people who were quick to reinforce that idea to me that I listened to.

    Donovan PuppyfuckerMulletudeNightDragontapeslinger
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Moriveth wrote: »
    People equating feminism to man-hating is the most aggravating fucking thing.

    I have a roommate who is like, kind of does this. But is also super generally progressive, so I think it's like, a refusal to identify with that title because... reasons. Unfortunately my other super awesome feminist roommate is moving out so I will have to take up the mantle of House Feminist. But yeah, she legit equated those mentally, despite being super feministy in practice.

  • KadithKadith Registered User regular
    Feminism is totes awesome.

    My favourite conversations with my boss are about feminism. I think the fact that me being the department as a person who makes her feminist beliefs look conservative has made her more comfortable calling out people on their bullshit more openly to the entire office which is a good thing.

    I do not like that most of our conversations start because men are doing gross things, like school board members sizing up young women who come to talk at school board meetings like they're pieces of meat, or her talking with other people in IT or other department heads and them acting like she is a helpless child, but if me or the other male Admin were to have the same discussion people would hang on our every word.

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