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Younger sister just announced her polygamous marriage, family hurt.
Rderdall
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Registered User regular
I'll spare a ton of back story, but here's how the whole thing went down...
My sister is 27 years old, has been engaged three times and has never been without a boyfriend since she started dating in high-school. And when I say never been without a boyfriend, I mean she's found replacements before leaving her current one.
She got married almost exactly a year ago, and her husband works out of town regularly. They've always had roommates living with them, and on occasion they'll bring a roommate to a family function (like Thanksgiving or Easter dinners).
This weekend, my wife and daughter and I were visiting my parents and my sister shows up with her husband and their roommate of about 6 months.
All that weekend, there was an unusual tension because she was spending more time with her roommate than she was with her husband. On Saturday evening around the campfire, it got even more bizarre when she had her hand on her roommate's knee and was caressing his inner thigh, only later to be seen holding hands. All of this, while sitting with her husband on the other side of her.
My wife brought it up with some careful questioning later that evening when they were away from everyone, and my sister announced that they were in a 3-way spousal arrangement and that their "roommate" was the spouse that looked after her while her husband was away. Apparently they've been in this relationship for the past 6 months, and have kept it hidden.
Additionally, the purpose of their visit this weekend was to announce it to the family, but they decided against actually telling anybody. They thought we'd just "figure it out" by their actions, and by the fact that all three were sleeping in the same bed. My wife then told me, and I felt I had to let Mom and Dad know because they were already hurt by the way she was acting and deserved to know the truth.
I'm not thrilled about this kind of lifestyle, but I'm not going to try to stop her from living how she wants. She's done so many bullshit things that have hurt the family that I stopped caring about what she did a long time ago. What I can't let go of though, is how this has hurt our parents.
They still love her as much as they loved her when she was a child, and rightly so. Her actions in the past have severely hurt mom and dad, and this has pushed them over the edge. Both my parents are traditional people. Grew up on a farm in a rural area, been married for almost 30 years, religious, but not regular church-goers. They do not understand why she's choosing to live this way, and they're devastated that she would try and sneak this behind their back.
We left to come home the morning that Mom and Dad found out. Mom later told us that they asked my sister and her men to leave .
My mom has been crying pretty much since it came out, and feels like they have failed as parents, to have a daughter who has been so against doing things that normal members of society do. She is disgusted by this lifestyle, and can't believe that her daughter turned out like this. Dad isn't far off from feeling the same way, minus the crying.
My sister is the most selfish person I know. She never stops to think about how her actions affect anyone but herself, and never puts perspective into her decision making. She uses my parents as a crutch when she needs them, and then spends the time in between trying to prove to the world that she can live by her own rules and do things on her own. She's hurt our parents over and over again and they've always come back around to support her, but I'm afraid that she's gone too far this time for them to forgive this.
We left to come home the morning that Mom and Dad found out. We later discovered that they were asked to leave and weren't welcome to stay there.
My sister is unjustifiably upset, because she thinks that Mom and Dad have no right to be angry and hurt by how she wants to live, and is offended that they asked her to leave. My parents are crushed by her latest stunt, and I need a way to console them.
Do I just stay out of it and let them work it out themselves? Do I call my sister and try to explain to her why what she did has hurt Mom and Dad (keeping in mind that she's never taken any of my words into consideration the numerous times I've tried to help her in the past)? Or, do I explain to my parents that she's an "adult" now, and is making decisions that have no reflection on how she was raised or the results of their parenting.
What I WANT to do is tear my sister up one side and down the other about how she needs to start thinking about how her actions affect others, but all that's going to do is waste my breath and make us both angry.
What next?
My sister is 27 years old, has been engaged three times and has never been without a boyfriend since she started dating in high-school. And when I say never been without a boyfriend, I mean she's found replacements before leaving her current one.
She got married almost exactly a year ago, and her husband works out of town regularly. They've always had roommates living with them, and on occasion they'll bring a roommate to a family function (like Thanksgiving or Easter dinners).
This weekend, my wife and daughter and I were visiting my parents and my sister shows up with her husband and their roommate of about 6 months.
All that weekend, there was an unusual tension because she was spending more time with her roommate than she was with her husband. On Saturday evening around the campfire, it got even more bizarre when she had her hand on her roommate's knee and was caressing his inner thigh, only later to be seen holding hands. All of this, while sitting with her husband on the other side of her.
My wife brought it up with some careful questioning later that evening when they were away from everyone, and my sister announced that they were in a 3-way spousal arrangement and that their "roommate" was the spouse that looked after her while her husband was away. Apparently they've been in this relationship for the past 6 months, and have kept it hidden.
Additionally, the purpose of their visit this weekend was to announce it to the family, but they decided against actually telling anybody. They thought we'd just "figure it out" by their actions, and by the fact that all three were sleeping in the same bed. My wife then told me, and I felt I had to let Mom and Dad know because they were already hurt by the way she was acting and deserved to know the truth.
I'm not thrilled about this kind of lifestyle, but I'm not going to try to stop her from living how she wants. She's done so many bullshit things that have hurt the family that I stopped caring about what she did a long time ago. What I can't let go of though, is how this has hurt our parents.
They still love her as much as they loved her when she was a child, and rightly so. Her actions in the past have severely hurt mom and dad, and this has pushed them over the edge. Both my parents are traditional people. Grew up on a farm in a rural area, been married for almost 30 years, religious, but not regular church-goers. They do not understand why she's choosing to live this way, and they're devastated that she would try and sneak this behind their back.
We left to come home the morning that Mom and Dad found out. Mom later told us that they asked my sister and her men to leave .
My mom has been crying pretty much since it came out, and feels like they have failed as parents, to have a daughter who has been so against doing things that normal members of society do. She is disgusted by this lifestyle, and can't believe that her daughter turned out like this. Dad isn't far off from feeling the same way, minus the crying.
My sister is the most selfish person I know. She never stops to think about how her actions affect anyone but herself, and never puts perspective into her decision making. She uses my parents as a crutch when she needs them, and then spends the time in between trying to prove to the world that she can live by her own rules and do things on her own. She's hurt our parents over and over again and they've always come back around to support her, but I'm afraid that she's gone too far this time for them to forgive this.
We left to come home the morning that Mom and Dad found out. We later discovered that they were asked to leave and weren't welcome to stay there.
My sister is unjustifiably upset, because she thinks that Mom and Dad have no right to be angry and hurt by how she wants to live, and is offended that they asked her to leave. My parents are crushed by her latest stunt, and I need a way to console them.
Do I just stay out of it and let them work it out themselves? Do I call my sister and try to explain to her why what she did has hurt Mom and Dad (keeping in mind that she's never taken any of my words into consideration the numerous times I've tried to help her in the past)? Or, do I explain to my parents that she's an "adult" now, and is making decisions that have no reflection on how she was raised or the results of their parenting.
What I WANT to do is tear my sister up one side and down the other about how she needs to start thinking about how her actions affect others, but all that's going to do is waste my breath and make us both angry.
What next?
Xbox Gamertag: GAMB1NO325Xi
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This is not a lifestyle choice any more than being gay or trans is a lifestyle choice. This is who she is and how she loves and the only people who have any business judging her are those with whom she shares those relationships.
Her marriage is between her and her husband and the fact that you want to tear her down for coming out to her family is personally revolting to me when she has lived in secret for so long.
"Be there" in the sense of offering to be there and talk/listen to both parties individually, that's how you can be supporting of each.
You're focused on how her actions are harming her parents, but she is an adult, and it's her life to live. Likely they will need some distance from each other while they each process these revelations. This doesn't necessarily mean you all cannot someday all have nice family gatherings again.
My parents are/were very traditional. My sister married a woman. This did not go down well (granted there were mutual visits for years before the marriage, so it's not something that just got dropped on them out of the blue). There wasn't really acrimony, but there were years of adjustment. I was sorta in the middle since our family was very private and unlikely to talk outside of the immediate nuclear family about pretty much anything intimate. Generally my dad needed to be assured that no, this wasn't a phase, and no, her partner wasn't just out to get her money. My mom I think had to come to terms with the fact that her daughter was probably never going to have children, and there was some cognitive dissonance due to her faith/upbringing. And my sister needed assurance that yes, her parents still loved her and they honestly still accept her as she is, but they needed time to have their minds disabused of some long held assumptions and expectations.
Don't fiddle with the situation, but do (once you can be calm about it) offer to let them talk/vent to you about it. You do not need to convince anyone of anything, but helping them understand one another may help them get over their current distress.
Your parents (and as far as I can tell, you) need to grow up.
Some people are polyamorous.
It doesn't mean the parents failed.
And saying the parents are justifiably hurt by it is just ludicrous.
You can try explaining it to your parents, but it seems like you'd better be ready to lose them over it.
The only ones who should be considered in a relationship are...the people in the relationship.
Could she have been more thoughtful in how she chose to bring it up with your family? Absolutely. But then, it also sounds like she would have been justified in being concerned that you'd judge her. Hearing your reaction, I can totally understand her trepidation.
What on earth do you believe gives you the right to "tear my sister up one side and down the other" about the number of partners she has, or how she chooses to express love between partners who are clearly fully aware of each other? This is not a matter of her needing to think about how her "decisions" affect others, its about you and the rest of your family realizing that it's none of your business, and that you're lucky she trusted you enough to even share it with you. Especially since it seems like that trust was misplaced.
Is she a selfish ass? I can't say. I don't know her. But what you need to do is separate the anger and frustration you feel at whatever genuinely selfish things she has done before from this, which has absolutely nothing to do with those things, and is by all appearances about the people she loves. If she behaves selfishly, by all means express your displeasure and work to prevent future occurrences; but keep in mind that this is not an example of selfish behavior. At least not by her.
So what next? Learn to deal with the fact that you and your parents have different opinions on how love should be expressed than your sister does. Then you grow up and move on.
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While this may be true in general, the actions you describe here literally do not affect your parents. Probably the only thing you can do at this point for either party is to make sure your parents are aware that non-acceptance of your sisters "choices" has a high risk of causing your sister to completely break ties with the family. If this is something they would rather have than a polyamorous daughter, there really isn't much you can do.
I simply cannot imagine why she kept it a secret.
Nope, no idea.
Just not a clue.
No fucking idea at all why she would feel any trepidation or fear about coming out to you guys about this.
Not a single clue.
Just cannot fathom any reason why that might be the case.
It is the world's greatest fucking mystery and I am calling Holmes and Watson right this second with two god damned phones.
Seriously...read your words here. Really sit down and look at what you're saying, because it is so utterly hateful that I have no clue how you could write all of that and still be so oblivious.
That said, she's an adult and can do what she wants with whomever she wants.
Your parents can deal with it or not interact with her anymore. Those are their choices, and pretty much yours as well.
There is a whole dang bunch of evidence that monogamy (which, for the record, is my preferred mode of relationship) is not necessarily a default state for homo sapiens. Biologically determined? Perhaps not. But then, monogamy may not be either.
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If it upsets you, you should ask yourself "why?"
If you have a valid reason why, figure out who is most involved in why. If it's you, you're the problem and need to figure out how to deal with it.
If it's someone else, put yourself into their shoes. If you think the husband is hurt by this, well, obviously he consented to the situation so you can immediately dismiss this reason as a "why".
Once there are no more whys, accept your family as who they are and not who you want them to be. Life is too short to be pissed at people for stupid reasons. Maybe if they did something personally damaging (and not just make you feel weird) maybe you'd have a case to be upset.
What's bothering me is the fact that this another incident where her actions have hurt the people closest to her and she makes herself the victim before analyzing why others are hurting.
When I mentioned the urge to call her and chew her out was not because of what she's done, but how she did it, and the fact that it's the same story every time she drops something huge on the family.
I don't expect any of you to understand the history that we have with her, but understand that it's completely possible to accept the way she lives, and still be hurt by the way that she treats the rest of the family.
I also don't think it's wrong to not be immediately accepting of such an announcement, in the case of my parents. This is something that they have never been exposed to. They're from a small town, where there's always been a husband, a wife and kids. This is completely alien to them.
And on the other side of things, Ceres, I'm worried that there will be huge complications that can arise from being married and having another spouse or companion. I know how powerful love is, and I worry about what happens if her husband or boyfriend starts to feel like the other guy is getting more of my sister's love than he is. What happens if the husband becomes jealous and decides to leave? They all carry weapons (concealed knives on their bodies, guns in the house), what if someone decides to hurt someone? I'm worried that this opens doors to a jealous act.
You mentioned that you have both a husband and a boyfriend. Do either of them have other partners, or is it you in the middle? I'm interested to learn how they feel about being in such a situation. Additionally, how did you tell your family, and how did they respond?
Xbox Gamertag: GAMB1NO325Xi
In what way was this not like the best possible way to tell her family. Like she could have maybe been more direct and candid, but somehow I don't think "Hey Mom & Dad, this is my boyfriend Mark, Hubby is out by the car having a smoke after the drive" would have went over any better.
Maybe just wait for a relative to die, and then just in the middle of the Eulogy just start banging away Eiffel Tower right in front of the casket?
What do you want out of this? I had the impression you wanted your sister and your parents to come to be on better terms, and so my advice was geared towards.
If what you want is to make your sister do things in a way you find more appropriate, well that's just not going to happen. She'll do things the way she feels like doing or in the manner in which she feels most comfortable. Everyone has friends or family members without tact, or who always do things "their way" even if it is sub-optimal in other peoples' minds; just like everyone has friends or family members who are convinced that they know how best to handle any particular situation.
Xbox Gamertag: GAMB1NO325Xi
Except that she is.
Maybe if you substituted 'loving the people she loves' for 'actions' you'd be able to realize it too.
Either way, my Mom would have struggled with accepting, but I think had my sister stood up and been honest without forcing it, it wouldn't have ended up the way it did.
Xbox Gamertag: GAMB1NO325Xi
I just dislike the unsupported case of trying to wrap it up as not-a-choice for rhetorical aims. Though I understand the legal prerogative to do so wrt gay/trans in the US with how protected class stuff works.
"Yeah, it's my choice to do this thing you don't like, fuck off, free country" is a perfectly acceptable argument. Trying to cloak it as an innate 'I can't help it' thing is just leaving a bit of your agency behind as a peace offering.
I'm not just referring to this incident in the statement. And it's not a repeated case of loving who she loves, it's a repeated case of her forcing things first, then demanding immediate and full approval.
Xbox Gamertag: GAMB1NO325Xi
The debate over whether or not polyamory is "biological" or a choice is kind of totally irrelevant to this thread
Let your sister and your parents deal with each other, far away from you.
Don't bring it up, don't take sides.
I don't care how much you want to take sides, it's in your best interest to stay neutral.
Note: you can still disagree with your sister while staying neutral.
If your sister is as selfish as you claim, I smell a divorce in her future.
It's awesome and I'm fairly sure it results in everyone involved being happier.
The only jealousy issues that arise are the same ones that could arise over someone having a friendship outwith a monogamous relationship, but with the added benefit that you know your partner has no interest in keeping any romantic or sexual feelings a secret from you, so there's no added suspicion or jealousy of that sort.
Honestly when you get right down to it, a healthy poly relationship is no different than a healthy mono relationship, partners in both agree to some set of rules or behaviours that they can all be happy with. In mono relationships that may mean that even admitting to a crush is grounds for serious strife, or that if you're caught looking at someone your partner thinks you're attracted to your partner takes offense, or whatever else.
In poly relationships it may mean that you're not allowed to bring another partner home (so you go to theirs or use a hotel or whatever), or do anything beyond flirtation before they've met your other partners, or just actively inform your partners of anything you get up to with others, or whatever.
The only way anyone should be hurt by a relationship between consenting adults is if they are or were one of those adults, anything else reeks of *phobia, body policing, and the general kind of ugliness that has been seen repeatedly in both very recent and less recent history (in the US, at least) with protests against interracial and same sex marriages.
Out of curiosity, would you feel your parents were justified in the same reaction if your sister brought a female "friend" home and dropped the same hints because she was afraid to tell them she was lesbian/bi/pan/whatever, imagining for the moment that she didn't have a husband?
If so, why? If not, why not?
You talk about "accepting", but your posts contain nothing of the sort that I can see.
As far as how they feel, I will let @Fyndir answer that for you.
I told my parents by telling them, because I had to because I was visiting my boyfriend for a few weeks in Scotland. They were concerned for my marriage, which is none of their business and I told them as much, but that my husband knows and likes him. My mom adjusted. My dad really hasn't, and he can be pretty angry and unreasonable so we just don't talk about it with him. Someday though, he'll probably have to deal with it.
So she should have went "Mom, Dad Hubby and I are thinking about adding a third partner to our relationship would that be alright with you?"?
I should note that ceres posted back when I first made that post that she didn't really agree or feel the same way about some of it, but since you were asking about how I felt, there it is.
The downside I mentioned is entirely down to me and my brain being a dumb jerk, from an objective standpoint I can't really think of any downsides that aren't so closely analogous to things that already exist/happen in a mono relationship that they don't really apply or count.
I wouldn't. And I'm honest. And when I realized I was falling for someone else and couldn't hide it anymore, but still loved my husband dearly, I told him. It was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, but I gave him the choice. Because the thing is, it had come up before in my life, and I always thought you HAD to end one relationship to begin another. I knew it would come up again even if I passed on this one, and if I didn't tell him, if I didn't give him the choice to stay with me or go with full knowledge of the situation, then one day I would cheat on him, and it's the last thing I wanted to do. It's not who I want to be.
At first he wasn't sure. He said that he loved me, that he couldn't make any promises, only that he would give things a try. We talked about some rules, which we've revisited and have changed a lot over the years to the point they're at now. He and Fyndir get along pretty damn well, and my husband at least is very, VERY monogamous.
It all could have gone differently. He could have left me, and that would have been terrible, but it would have been okay in the end. Because I really believe that everyone deserves to be in a relationship structure that makes them feel safe and comfortable and happy. I do, he does, everyone does. And if he is unhappy with what I can give him in terms of that, then he is right to find someone who can give him the structure he needs, and he will do it with lots and lots of tears from me, but also my blessing.
I don't know your sister's relationships or what she's like. I don't know how solid they are or what either of them think. I only know that coming out as anything is really, really hard. How you choose to do it and when and to whom is a very personal thing. It's okay for her to be really fucking disappointed that her family wasn't more supportive, no matter what she may have expected.
Seriously, some of the stuff you said of the situation was pretty fucking hateful. If she's still even trying to talk to any of you after this, then she has more patience than me. If it were me you'd said some of that stuff about and I found and read it I would excise you from my life like a cancer, as I would anyone who tried to tell me that having open, honest relationships they aren't involved in but don't approve of is selfish of me.
Maybe a phone call or an email along the lines of "Hey, mom, I know you're going to think this is weird, but hubby and I decided to add a third partner to our relationship a few months ago. I don't want it to be awkward when you and dad and Rderdall are visiting, so there you go.".
As for what you should do about it, OP. Probably nothing. Just keep out of it. If you must talk to the sister, put aside the anger and calmly engage, and tell her that you feel like she didn't handle it well.
I think that it is clear that you are concerned for her well being as well. I mean, that is clear by your questions. But it is her life to figure out. Being poly clearly isn't for everyone. But it can also work for some people. Let her sort that out.
but they're listening to every word I say
Hold the fucking phone here
YOU outed them to your parents?
What the fuck gave you that right? I understand that perhaps you've had a tumultuous relationship with your sister but jesus fucking christ on a ten speed, that was the most none-of-your-goddamn-business king dick move you could have possibly done.
He's put his sister in a potentially dangerous situation by revealing something maaaaaybe she wasn't ready to discuss with people she wasn't ready to discuss it with, because, y'know that's her fucking business
I don't know how I missed this, but wow. So she didn't drop the drama bomb, you did. You fucked this up. She showed a person affection. You fucked up her time with her parents, your collective weekend, and her chance for her family, because that's what they are, to come out on their own terms.
Just wow.
My advice: Find your own goddamn life to live and do that. She didn't announce they were all moving in with your parents and they better support it no matter what, she touched a dude's leg and you fucking outed her. How selfish can you be?
he explained in the post that they came to the family event, decided not to 'come out' but decided to 'act out' and hoped that everyone would figure it out
https://medium.com/@alascii
You are something else.
Your sister may be a total bitch, but I would advise you not to think about this arrangement as a way of hurting your parents, because it almost certainly is not. This weekend was hard for her to.
As for where you go from here- Dan Savage can answer that much better than i can:
What should you do? Remind both sides to be patient and loving. If they want to rebuild this relationship they can.
I know that this is an emotional issue but try some reading comprehension people
https://medium.com/@alascii
That has zero to do with tolerance. Even if he was coming from a place of super tolerance and total acceptance of her romantic relationships of choice, it's totally not okay to out someone like that.
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So, let me get this straight: Your sister was going to tell you all about this, then they had second thoughts about it (which, given how you lot have reacted, fair enough on her part), and so then they just sorta didn't pretend it wasn't happening and were sort of waiting to see how you'd react. Your wife reacted by telling you, you reacted by telling your mom and dad, and you all reacted... the way you did.
Fantastic. I'm sure that's exactly what she "selfishly" intended, buddy.
My brain would probably shut down at that level of rejection.
Hopefully this is just a temporary lashout due to the surprise, but honestly this needs to be fixed asap.
If it even can be fixed.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
like, I ask you, what is the objective of this detail
why is that important to the story?
why does that matter?
oh, it matters to establish the character of his sister, to show what a selfish slut she is
the implication of this is that this girl can't commit to a relationship, she cheats on men, she can't have a real marriage, she uses men and discards them, she's a SLUT
he's coloring the whole story with this opening detail, because he feels it's important to put the story into that context so he seems totally reasonable
Have you called your sister and spoken to her at all since finding out?
Have you considered calling to let her explain to you her actions and her feelings, rather than trying to assume the responsibility of telling anyone what's what?
'cause tbh right now it definitely sounds like your sister made a mistake, but not the one you're thinking of