Then there are the pubs where the Nova on your team is zapping away at minions like there's no tomorrow
Sigh
I love those too! They drop decoys like it will confuse people. My favorite is a Nova who did that, then bitched at my brother for playing "badly." Sorry laning Nova, you don't get an opinion on what is or isn't good play.
Then there are the pubs where the Nova on your team is zapping away at minions like there's no tomorrow
Sigh
I love those too! They drop decoys like it will confuse people. My favorite is a Nova who did that, then bitched at my brother for playing "badly." Sorry laning Nova, you don't get an opinion on what is or isn't good play.
Heh, that's nothing. Had a Stitches last night that refused to engage in a team fight "Because I'll just get focused down."
Then there are the pubs where the Nova on your team is zapping away at minions like there's no tomorrow
Sigh
I love those too! They drop decoys like it will confuse people. My favorite is a Nova who did that, then bitched at my brother for playing "badly." Sorry laning Nova, you don't get an opinion on what is or isn't good play.
Heh, that's nothing. Had a Stitches last night that refused to engage in a team fight "Because I'll just get focused down."
I just got into the beta! I am super excited! Now I just have to wait until I get home from trivia tomorrow night after work and the gym to play! I should be fine playing my first few games mostly sober right?
Oh wow LoL finally introduced "pick what hero+lane+role you want to play and you'll be matched with a team to guarantee you get it" feature from HotS. Unfortunately, they still fucked it up because it dumps you into a lobby with a team and everyone still has to ready up and chat, so you'll still get people bitching you out for hero choice and leaving if they don't 100% approve of their team comp. Unlike regular queue dodging, there is no penalty for ditching the lobby.
It also has the HotS effect where, despite having a player pool in the tens of millions, you get matched with teammates on the HotS pub game level of cluelessness. Usually you need about 250 games of LoL under your belt before you truly start playing the game competently. A person who's played 1000 isn't necessarily better than someone who's played 500, but there is a definite major lack of skill in anyone under 200. I'm around 3000 and its rare I get matched with anyone that new. Maybe every ten games I'll see someone feed badly and big surprise it's someone under 200 who somehow got matched with us. With the "guaranteed hero" mode, I'm regularly getting put on teams with 2-4 people with only 60-150 games.
I have no clue why this mode brings out awful players. There are tons of experienced, unranked solo queue players in LoL.
I honestly don't have a problem with lobby ditching. Being able to bail on a losing setup is a nice thing. I wish I had the opportunity to bail on certain Heroes matches.
The blind queue mode has its own set of flaws. Such as getting on a team of 3 warriors and 2 specialists against a balanced team with a tank, a healer, and a mix of assassins and specialists. Sometimes the imbalance of the random solo queue boggles my mind. And in those situations I wish there was a way to queue dodge.
Yes, Heroes matches tend to run shorter than other MOBAs. 15-20 minutes instead of 25-35. But that's still a wasted 20 minutes when you get a broken team comp and the opposing team gets a good team comp, and it was all just random luck of the draw.
I'd rather sit in queue for 10 minutes waiting for an appropriate team comp than play a 20 minute game that will inevitably end in a loss.
Often times I wish for a lobby system in Heroes, rather than blind queue. Yes, being guaranteed a certain hero is great, but I'd rather deal with petty squabbles in a lobby than load into a broken team using a hero of my choosing.
The other night I solo queued and the opposing team had Malfurion, Rehgar, and Tyrande. My team did not have any healers at all. How the hell does that even happen? I'm sure it wasn't fun for that team either, because while they were able to stay alive really well, they were not able to kill very well.
Blizzard needs to do a "behind the scenes re-balancing" before they reveal the teams. In a random queue of 10 pickup players, they need to auto-balance based on role before they go to the load screen. Even in games where pairs of players are queuing up together, an auto-balance should happen.
For some reason these heroes constantly attract the worst players.
Raynor- probably because he's the tutorial hero and everyone new picks him. I don't get how you fuck him up though. He's ranged and he has ONE active skill that requires targeting. Nobody ever takes his auto attack steroid talents either. He starts off with a steroid, and you can add additional attack damage AND speed steroids. I suck at any math beyond middle school level and even I grasp the power of multiplicative bonuses.
Illidan- It's not just a matter of his underpoweredness, he attracts just plain bad players. I think acrobatic assassins appeal more to 12 year olds. Illidan players are the most likely to be wearing their LARP costume during a game.
Nova- see "assassins appeal to 12 year olds". The crazy thing is no one is playing her as an assassin! For some reason laning Nova is the new thing. One thing I'm constantly seeing is everyone passing up armored piercing shots for "+25% damage next auto attack after using a skill". On paper that seems like you're putting out more total damage than hot shots, but are you really? You have to put up with increased micro management as you time every ability to come right before a shot, and you have to make yourself vulnerable as you stand there with standard auto attacks. All of that danger and hassle for what? An extra 3/4ths of a vanilla auto attack every ambush? Not worth it. Even if you went that route, why not take envenom like no one does? As long as you're making yourself vulnerable by not taking hot shots you might as well.
Stitches- more than any other warrior in the game, I constantly see people refusing to play this one like a tank. Always staying out of fights, letting the squishes soak up the damage, and then finally once the rest of his team is all dead, he will hook someone and die.
The other night I solo queued and the opposing team had Malfurion, Rehgar, and Tyrande. My team did not have any healers at all. How the hell does that even happen? I'm sure it wasn't fun for that team either, because while they were able to stay alive really well, they were not able to kill very well.
Blizzard needs to do a "behind the scenes re-balancing" before they reveal the teams. In a random queue of 10 pickup players, they need to auto-balance based on role before they go to the load screen. Even in games where pairs of players are queuing up together, an auto-balance should happen.
I understand ditching HOPELESS team comps, but there should be some kind of escalating penalty so people aren't ditching every time they don't 100% get their anal way. LoL had the 5 minute first time penalty for requeuing that increased each consecutive time you did it. I think ranked had a 30 minute penalty, which I was fine with because 30 minutes was worth ditching a hopeless tam when your ladder score was on the line, and otherwise 99% of lobbies would have at least one dodger who bailed.
I think the problem with HotS right now is that health and healing are just too strong. Giant Killer doesn't really cut it against the "2nd health bar" heroes, and unlike other DotAs there are zero anti-healing options available. Compounding the problem is that the higher health heroes tend to get resurgence more often than not.
I still have no idea why they thought removing/nerfing rewind was a higher priority than getting rid of resurgence. Hell, they could more than double the cool down to 5 minutes and it would still be the best level 20 option in a lot of cases.
I think the assassin or DPS role in general just attracts players of lower maturity levels and lower skill. It's true in WoW too. Just look at the Hunter class. They are often referred to as "Huntards" for a reason. And it's because TONS of idiots leave on aspect of the pack and get the whole party chain dazed. Or they somehow tab target the wrong thing and send their pet into a pack of un-pulled enemies. Or they multishot the whole room and somehow manage to aggro triple what the tank has pulled. Or they use the wrong target for misdirection and they put all that front loaded threat on the healer.
Easiest class in the game, and the dumbest people are the ones playing it.
That's not to say hunter can't be great either. The class just attracts idiots.
The same can be said for Nova, Illidan, Arthas, and Raynor.
You know how you tell a bad Arthas? He picks Sindragosa. Why would a person ever give up immortality for a shitty frost breath that does no damage and has never affected the outcome of a team fight ever. The reason for it is because "OMFG DRAGONZ."
I understand ditching HOPELESS team comps, but there should be some kind of escalating penalty so people aren't ditching every time they don't 100% get their anal way. LoL had the 5 minute first time penalty for requeuing that increased each consecutive time you did it. I think ranked had a 30 minute penalty, which I was fine with because 30 minutes was worth ditching a hopeless tam when your ladder score was on the line, and otherwise 99% of lobbies would have at least one dodger who bailed.
It's not in yet, but they've said they'll have a system where leavers get matched with other leavers.
I'd like to get a ringside seat to the chat logs for those games.
+2
imdointhisI should actually stop doin' this.Registered Userregular
I think the assassin or DPS role in general just attracts players of lower maturity levels and lower skill. It's true in WoW too. Just look at the Hunter class. They are often referred to as "Huntards" for a reason. And it's because TONS of idiots leave on aspect of the pack and get the whole party chain dazed. Or they somehow tab target the wrong thing and send their pet into a pack of un-pulled enemies. Or they multishot the whole room and somehow manage to aggro triple what the tank has pulled. Or they use the wrong target for misdirection and they put all that front loaded threat on the healer.
Easiest class in the game, and the dumbest people are the ones playing it.
That's not to say hunter can't be great either. The class just attracts idiots.
The same can be said for Nova, Illidan, Arthas, and Raynor.
You know how you tell a bad Arthas? He picks Sindragosa. Why would a person ever give up immortality for a shitty frost breath that does no damage and has never affected the outcome of a team fight ever. The reason for it is because "OMFG DRAGONZ."
I'm always of two minds about this sort of thing.
On the one hand, yes, there are some talents that are more useful than others and it's helpful to have people who have done their research and can play well as a team because that level of jolly cooperation is super fun to be a part of. Since it's a team-based multiplayer game, people should learn how to bounce their talents off of one another and work together for the good of the group.
On the other hand, it's a video game and people need to learn to cope. People can pick what they want and what they think is cool, as is their right as someone playing and/or paying for things in the game. If the entire team falls apart because one guy picks one talent, then the problem isn't just one guy. I've had far more defeats than victories and in the end, who cares? You still get some gold and xp and if you feel that you've wasted 20 minutes of your life because this match ended in a red screen instead of a blue screen, maybe find a different game to play for your own sanity and mental health. People who only have fun if they win are the worst.
Ceno, when I get in this, you and I can be fun-bros.
Note - I do understand that people play games for different reasons, the above comment is mainly to highlight that Ceno and I seem to share a philosophy.
It's obviously more fun to win a match than lose, but I dont mind losing. What pisses me off is losing because someone just gives up before the game is over.
Last night had a game where we were doing good for a while then lost a few key fights midgame. Not long after that I notice than our illidan wastes a lot of time chilling at base at full health. I mention that we could do something if he actually helped us and he replies: Nah I dont care we lost already.
We werent that far behind on towers and only 1 level.behind. All we needed is to win 1 team fight to get back on track!!!
It's obviously more fun to win a match than lose, but I dont mind losing. What pisses me off is losing because someone just gives up before the game is over.
Last night had a game where we were doing good for a while then lost a few key fights midgame. Not long after that I notice than our illidan wastes a lot of time chilling at base at full health. I mention that we could do something if he actually helped us and he replies: Nah I dont care we lost already.
We werent that far behind on towers and only 1 level.behind. All we needed is to win 1 team fight to get back on track!!!
If they intentionally sabotage the rest of the game for any reason, it's a reportable offense.
I missed the bus. Screw it, I'm tired anyways, I think today's a "sick" day. I'll be on HotS a lot today if anyone wants to join! To help me "recover" :P
I'm not saying I only have fun when I win. I'm not saying that at all. I love Heroes and I usually have fun even in a losing match.
What I'm saying is that if you can hit the TAB key at the start of a match and accurately predict the outcome of the game before the gates ever open, then something is wrong.
While I don't mind losing, I still want a fair, even match. And when I can hit TAB and see that my team is composed of Jaina (me), Abathur, Zeratul, Valla, and Azmodan, and we are matched up against Stitches, Malfurion, Rehgar, Valla, and Zeratul, it's not hard to see that it will be a very one-sided match. That was an actual team comp that happened to me on Monday night. My team had no tank or healer. Their team had a tank and a healer.
How is that fair? How is that fun? Oh, and the map was Cursed Hollow, which is probably the worst early-game Abathur map. Yes, Abathur is a good hero, yes I like him. But Cursed Hollow specifically needs that extra body to soak damage on the first couple tributes. It isn't until the mid to late game that Abathur's split pushing ability, and map presence really begins to matter. And when you're also handicapped and have no tank or healer, even the best Abathur is gonna be hard pressed to make a difference when your team loses every team fight that happens.
I had a team of: Zeratul, Nova, Abathur, Sonya and Valla (me) on Blackhearts Bay.
I immedietly say in chat "Well, this will be a painful match for Sonya and I." The Sonya replies "Nah, just don't be a scrub, I'm good." Then promptly runs up to the watch tower and gets focused down in 1.5 seconds. At one point our Abathur tried to melee down a coin camp (he spent his bribe on the siege camp next to it).
Guys I'm conflicted. I have ~16k gold right now. Should I go and buy Jaina now that she's 10k? Orrrr maybe should I buy Brightwing since she's one of the few Supports I really like? Or do I keep saving up for, I dunno, Thrall? WUT DO.
They should fix the reconnect feature before they even begin to contemplate the brainstorming pre-alpha concept phase of a leaver system.
Again, LoL had the reconnect process down cold during beta five years ago.
I mean, I like the game, but man, this is the shoddiest thing Blizzard has ever allowed people outside of Blizzard to play.
I still have to log in with my password every single time I fire up HotS. Also change the region from US to EU because god forbid it remembers that.
That's weird, do you still go through the battlenet launcher? Right after the Jainia patch, I'd often crash after queueing, and the post crash screen that asked for a report would ask me to reopen or close heroes. If I selected reopen I'd get the logon screen, but other than that I'd never encounter it going from the launcher.
Guys I'm conflicted. I have ~16k gold right now. Should I go and buy Jaina now that she's 10k? Orrrr maybe should I buy Brightwing since she's one of the few Supports I really like? Or do I keep saving up for, I dunno, Thrall? WUT DO.
Don't buy Jaina. I'm really really liking her and I don't want to have competition :P
(She's a lot of fun, but super squishy. Like woah squishy)
I understand ditching HOPELESS team comps, but there should be some kind of escalating penalty so people aren't ditching every time they don't 100% get their anal way. LoL had the 5 minute first time penalty for requeuing that increased each consecutive time you did it. I think ranked had a 30 minute penalty, which I was fine with because 30 minutes was worth ditching a hopeless tam when your ladder score was on the line, and otherwise 99% of lobbies would have at least one dodger who bailed.
It's not in yet, but they've said they'll have a system where leavers get matched with other leavers.
I'd like to get a ringside seat to the chat logs for those games.
I just got in so yay!
But this would be Low Priority queue in DoTA2. If you ditch a game or more you are put into a special queue for a set amount of games. This queue is made up of folks reported for feeding, ditching games and all sorts of shenanigans.
Guys I'm conflicted. I have ~16k gold right now. Should I go and buy Jaina now that she's 10k? Orrrr maybe should I buy Brightwing since she's one of the few Supports I really like? Or do I keep saving up for, I dunno, Thrall? WUT DO.
Don't buy Jaina. I'm really really liking her and I don't want to have competition :P
(She's a lot of fun, but super squishy. Like woah squishy)
Jaina is the squishiest character in the game imo (except Abathur wandering around, but lulz).
No hard escapes at all until sprint and no way to really get people off her. Tychus and Valla both are around her HP, but both have a directional move not effected by slow, and Tychus has grenade which can be used to get people away. Nova and Zera have less health iirc, but they both have stealth and Zera has blink.
Actually I guess I'd say Nova against a good team who responds to her is almost as squishy as Jaina, but Jaina probably still wins.
She's really fun though. I just wish Ring of Frost was less janky to use.
I just spec Jaina towards hard nuking since she's so squishy. The water elemental helps tank but she needs to be stuck like glue to someone else during the whole match.
I've played her abit and I think I just need to get used to playstyle/combo. Seriously, all her abilities are her escape early game. Because they slow.
Posts
That's gonna be the first thing I do when I get home. I already own Shan'do Illidan. Time to complete the "what if" series. I love that concept.
I love those too! They drop decoys like it will confuse people. My favorite is a Nova who did that, then bitched at my brother for playing "badly." Sorry laning Nova, you don't get an opinion on what is or isn't good play.
Heh, that's nothing. Had a Stitches last night that refused to engage in a team fight "Because I'll just get focused down."
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Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
It also has the HotS effect where, despite having a player pool in the tens of millions, you get matched with teammates on the HotS pub game level of cluelessness. Usually you need about 250 games of LoL under your belt before you truly start playing the game competently. A person who's played 1000 isn't necessarily better than someone who's played 500, but there is a definite major lack of skill in anyone under 200. I'm around 3000 and its rare I get matched with anyone that new. Maybe every ten games I'll see someone feed badly and big surprise it's someone under 200 who somehow got matched with us. With the "guaranteed hero" mode, I'm regularly getting put on teams with 2-4 people with only 60-150 games.
I have no clue why this mode brings out awful players. There are tons of experienced, unranked solo queue players in LoL.
The blind queue mode has its own set of flaws. Such as getting on a team of 3 warriors and 2 specialists against a balanced team with a tank, a healer, and a mix of assassins and specialists. Sometimes the imbalance of the random solo queue boggles my mind. And in those situations I wish there was a way to queue dodge.
Yes, Heroes matches tend to run shorter than other MOBAs. 15-20 minutes instead of 25-35. But that's still a wasted 20 minutes when you get a broken team comp and the opposing team gets a good team comp, and it was all just random luck of the draw.
I'd rather sit in queue for 10 minutes waiting for an appropriate team comp than play a 20 minute game that will inevitably end in a loss.
Blizzard needs to do a "behind the scenes re-balancing" before they reveal the teams. In a random queue of 10 pickup players, they need to auto-balance based on role before they go to the load screen. Even in games where pairs of players are queuing up together, an auto-balance should happen.
Raynor- probably because he's the tutorial hero and everyone new picks him. I don't get how you fuck him up though. He's ranged and he has ONE active skill that requires targeting. Nobody ever takes his auto attack steroid talents either. He starts off with a steroid, and you can add additional attack damage AND speed steroids. I suck at any math beyond middle school level and even I grasp the power of multiplicative bonuses.
Illidan- It's not just a matter of his underpoweredness, he attracts just plain bad players. I think acrobatic assassins appeal more to 12 year olds. Illidan players are the most likely to be wearing their LARP costume during a game.
Nova- see "assassins appeal to 12 year olds". The crazy thing is no one is playing her as an assassin! For some reason laning Nova is the new thing. One thing I'm constantly seeing is everyone passing up armored piercing shots for "+25% damage next auto attack after using a skill". On paper that seems like you're putting out more total damage than hot shots, but are you really? You have to put up with increased micro management as you time every ability to come right before a shot, and you have to make yourself vulnerable as you stand there with standard auto attacks. All of that danger and hassle for what? An extra 3/4ths of a vanilla auto attack every ambush? Not worth it. Even if you went that route, why not take envenom like no one does? As long as you're making yourself vulnerable by not taking hot shots you might as well.
Stitches- more than any other warrior in the game, I constantly see people refusing to play this one like a tank. Always staying out of fights, letting the squishes soak up the damage, and then finally once the rest of his team is all dead, he will hook someone and die.
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I understand ditching HOPELESS team comps, but there should be some kind of escalating penalty so people aren't ditching every time they don't 100% get their anal way. LoL had the 5 minute first time penalty for requeuing that increased each consecutive time you did it. I think ranked had a 30 minute penalty, which I was fine with because 30 minutes was worth ditching a hopeless tam when your ladder score was on the line, and otherwise 99% of lobbies would have at least one dodger who bailed.
I think the problem with HotS right now is that health and healing are just too strong. Giant Killer doesn't really cut it against the "2nd health bar" heroes, and unlike other DotAs there are zero anti-healing options available. Compounding the problem is that the higher health heroes tend to get resurgence more often than not.
I still have no idea why they thought removing/nerfing rewind was a higher priority than getting rid of resurgence. Hell, they could more than double the cool down to 5 minutes and it would still be the best level 20 option in a lot of cases.
Easiest class in the game, and the dumbest people are the ones playing it.
That's not to say hunter can't be great either. The class just attracts idiots.
The same can be said for Nova, Illidan, Arthas, and Raynor.
You know how you tell a bad Arthas? He picks Sindragosa. Why would a person ever give up immortality for a shitty frost breath that does no damage and has never affected the outcome of a team fight ever. The reason for it is because "OMFG DRAGONZ."
It's not in yet, but they've said they'll have a system where leavers get matched with other leavers.
I'd like to get a ringside seat to the chat logs for those games.
It's me. I'm the waddling azmodan.
Again, LoL had the reconnect process down cold during beta five years ago.
I'm always of two minds about this sort of thing.
On the one hand, yes, there are some talents that are more useful than others and it's helpful to have people who have done their research and can play well as a team because that level of jolly cooperation is super fun to be a part of. Since it's a team-based multiplayer game, people should learn how to bounce their talents off of one another and work together for the good of the group.
On the other hand, it's a video game and people need to learn to cope. People can pick what they want and what they think is cool, as is their right as someone playing and/or paying for things in the game. If the entire team falls apart because one guy picks one talent, then the problem isn't just one guy. I've had far more defeats than victories and in the end, who cares? You still get some gold and xp and if you feel that you've wasted 20 minutes of your life because this match ended in a red screen instead of a blue screen, maybe find a different game to play for your own sanity and mental health. People who only have fun if they win are the worst.
Note - I do understand that people play games for different reasons, the above comment is mainly to highlight that Ceno and I seem to share a philosophy.
Last night had a game where we were doing good for a while then lost a few key fights midgame. Not long after that I notice than our illidan wastes a lot of time chilling at base at full health. I mention that we could do something if he actually helped us and he replies: Nah I dont care we lost already.
We werent that far behind on towers and only 1 level.behind. All we needed is to win 1 team fight to get back on track!!!
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
If they intentionally sabotage the rest of the game for any reason, it's a reportable offense.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
I mean, I like the game, but man, this is the shoddiest thing Blizzard has ever allowed people outside of Blizzard to play.
I still have to log in with my password every single time I fire up HotS. Also change the region from US to EU because god forbid it remembers that.
What I'm saying is that if you can hit the TAB key at the start of a match and accurately predict the outcome of the game before the gates ever open, then something is wrong.
While I don't mind losing, I still want a fair, even match. And when I can hit TAB and see that my team is composed of Jaina (me), Abathur, Zeratul, Valla, and Azmodan, and we are matched up against Stitches, Malfurion, Rehgar, Valla, and Zeratul, it's not hard to see that it will be a very one-sided match. That was an actual team comp that happened to me on Monday night. My team had no tank or healer. Their team had a tank and a healer.
How is that fair? How is that fun? Oh, and the map was Cursed Hollow, which is probably the worst early-game Abathur map. Yes, Abathur is a good hero, yes I like him. But Cursed Hollow specifically needs that extra body to soak damage on the first couple tributes. It isn't until the mid to late game that Abathur's split pushing ability, and map presence really begins to matter. And when you're also handicapped and have no tank or healer, even the best Abathur is gonna be hard pressed to make a difference when your team loses every team fight that happens.
And yeah, I got a team of three ranged assassins, Gazlowe and Lili last night. That did not go so well.
I immedietly say in chat "Well, this will be a painful match for Sonya and I." The Sonya replies "Nah, just don't be a scrub, I'm good." Then promptly runs up to the watch tower and gets focused down in 1.5 seconds. At one point our Abathur tried to melee down a coin camp (he spent his bribe on the siege camp next to it).
The one that exists is community made
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Really? I wonder if thats an EU thing. HotS goes as normal through the bnet launcher and logs in and all that junk like WoW/Diablo for me.
That's weird, do you still go through the battlenet launcher? Right after the Jainia patch, I'd often crash after queueing, and the post crash screen that asked for a report would ask me to reopen or close heroes. If I selected reopen I'd get the logon screen, but other than that I'd never encounter it going from the launcher.
38thDoE on steam
Chances are, you'd buy Thrall at 10k and thats quite a long way away
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Don't buy Jaina. I'm really really liking her and I don't want to have competition :P
(She's a lot of fun, but super squishy. Like woah squishy)
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I just got in so yay!
But this would be Low Priority queue in DoTA2. If you ditch a game or more you are put into a special queue for a set amount of games. This queue is made up of folks reported for feeding, ditching games and all sorts of shenanigans.
It is as bad as you think it would be.
Jaina is the squishiest character in the game imo (except Abathur wandering around, but lulz).
No hard escapes at all until sprint and no way to really get people off her. Tychus and Valla both are around her HP, but both have a directional move not effected by slow, and Tychus has grenade which can be used to get people away. Nova and Zera have less health iirc, but they both have stealth and Zera has blink.
Actually I guess I'd say Nova against a good team who responds to her is almost as squishy as Jaina, but Jaina probably still wins.
She's really fun though. I just wish Ring of Frost was less janky to use.
I've played her abit and I think I just need to get used to playstyle/combo. Seriously, all her abilities are her escape early game. Because they slow.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights