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[WOW] 6.0 Out now! Blizzcon INC Nov 7+8!

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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    The original storyline was that the Orcs' ancestors (they perform a type of ancestor worship, and shamans speak to their spirits) had warned them that the Draenei were going to attack them and wipe them out.

    They had no idea that Kil'Jaedan had utilized a man-in-the-middle attack and was replacing their calls for peace with a call to war.

    Of course, I expect this to be thrown out when we start getting into the message of this expac.

    Nobody on
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    BaalorBaalor Registered User regular
    Basically what happens is that Garrosh goes back in time aided by (from the book: War Crimes)
    Koiraz and the hourclass he is making with epoch stones on timeless isle. He is secretly part of the infinite dragonflight and allied with Wrathion
    Presumably they stop the demonic corruption but still wants the orcs on the warpath because of "Reasons" to be learned later.

    I still haven't seen or read anything explaining why the portal they build link up to our Azeroth but again its prob. part of a larger plot.

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    FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Good grief, now I need to re-learn all of the BURNING CRUSADE's orc history and politics.

    Fairchild on
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    CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    The orcs attacked the Draenei before Gul'dan offered the demon blood. Kil'jaeden tricked Ner'zhul into thinking the Draenei were going to attack. Once Ner'zhul figured it out, he was replaced by Gul'dan who tricked them into drinking the blood before their attack on Shattrath. I guess they wanted to fight more? I'm not really sure why they'd go through the whole invasion thing again. They aren't high on bloodlust, so they don't really need to.

    Metzen demands orc centric plot development.

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    AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    I would assume given that spoilered info that:
    Wrathion planned to use the uncorrupted horde against the legion...but wouldn't the legion in the now alternate timeline still exist...and it seems garrosh and the bronze dragon had other ideas.

    God time travel storys suck. I prefer to do as little thinking about it as I possibly can.

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    BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    FYI there is a CE preorder on amazon. not at home so I can't see if it actually has contents but I put in my order anyway

    Don't see anything about the actual contents of the box, just the same plugs about the expansion (boost to 90, etc etc).

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    AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    The orcs attacked the Draenei before Gul'dan offered the demon blood. Kil'jaeden tricked Ner'zhul into thinking the Draenei were going to attack. Once Ner'zhul figured it out, he was replaced by Gul'dan who tricked them into drinking the blood before their attack on Shattrath. I guess they wanted to fight more? I'm not really sure why they'd go through the whole invasion thing again. They aren't high on bloodlust, so they don't really need to.

    Metzen demands orc centric plot development.

    It's getting really old I gota say.

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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    The orcs attacked the Draenei before Gul'dan offered the demon blood. Kil'jaeden tricked Ner'zhul into thinking the Draenei were going to attack. Once Ner'zhul figured it out, he was replaced by Gul'dan who tricked them into drinking the blood before their attack on Shattrath. I guess they wanted to fight more? I'm not really sure why they'd go through the whole invasion thing again. They aren't high on bloodlust, so they don't really need to.

    Metzen demands Thrall centric plot development.

    FTFY

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    FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Acharenus wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    The orcs attacked the Draenei before Gul'dan offered the demon blood. Kil'jaeden tricked Ner'zhul into thinking the Draenei were going to attack. Once Ner'zhul figured it out, he was replaced by Gul'dan who tricked them into drinking the blood before their attack on Shattrath. I guess they wanted to fight more? I'm not really sure why they'd go through the whole invasion thing again. They aren't high on bloodlust, so they don't really need to.

    Metzen demands orc centric plot development.

    It's getting really old I gota say.

    At least it's not Trolls again ?

    Fairchild on
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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Can Wrathion just, like, not be a bad guy that we're probably going to be forced into killing because of Metzen?

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    Having no real knowledge of his role in WoD, except I guess having a hand in Garrosh going free?, I'm not seeing anything really that would indicate him becoming a big bad, really; just that he needs to do some growing up and understanding the mistakes his father made and not repeating that.

    I don't doubt we'll fight him at some point, but not as a bad guy, really.

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    HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    Bigity wrote: »
    FYI there is a CE preorder on amazon. not at home so I can't see if it actually has contents but I put in my order anyway

    Don't see anything about the actual contents of the box, just the same plugs about the expansion (boost to 90, etc etc).

    Yeah. Have to assume it'll be the usual CE items though - Artbook (main reason I buy these things), Soundtrack CD, Mousepad, plus the same in-game goodies as the digital CE (Raven Lord mount and battle pet) and the "free" boost to 90 for a character. If the contents differ at all from that I'd be surprised.

    It's going for $90 this time which stings a bit, but whatever.

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    GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Is the twist to going to be that alternate dimension Azeroth is still ruled by an Empire of Arathor that did not fracture after genociding its trolls? Oh, this Empire is extremely xenophobic and militaristic because that would be original right?

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2014
    No, the twist is that it'll be ruled by an alternate Hemet Nesingwary, who now hunts the most dangerous game.

    Sterica on
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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    No, the twist is that it'll be ruled by an alternate Hemet Nesingwary, who now hunts the most dangerous game.

    Never before have I wanted to experience a Nessingwary vs DEHTA storyline more.

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    SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    They revealed the final boss in an interview with Tom Chilton at Gamescon.

    And this was datamined, but the new "People's Legendary" is
    a ring with a visual effect

    Samphis on
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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Final boss of the expansion or final boss of the initial patch?

    Because seriously fuck Garrosh and his daddy I really, really, REALLY do not want to go through an expansion knowing that the final raid is going to essentially be Siege of Orgrimmar 2.0

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    SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    Blackhand is the final boss of the first tier.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    My hope was that we'd deal with the Iron Horde in the first two raid tiers and then the REAL threat, the Legion, suddenly shows up for the latter half of the expansion.

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    HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    So, something about the garrison I noticed with regard to materials/professions:

    The mine you get (or can get, not sure if it's a plug or required addition) generates an absolutely absurd amount of ore daily, or at least I believe it's daily. In just one pass through my mine, I netted 220 True Iron ore (the standard ore in WoD) and 142 Blackrock ore (the 'special' ore in WoD). That's on one character. Unless crafted items are going to require an insane number of materials, I can't imagine there's going to be much use to having at least mining on any of my characters. If you can get a similar amount of resources via skinning and herbing in the garrison, I can't see how anyone would be able to turn much of a profit on the AH with those resources.

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    SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    Well, since even potions require ore, herbs, fish and meat, I think it'll be used in everything.

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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    Samphis wrote: »

    And this was datamined, but the new "People's Legendary" is
    a ring with a visual effect

    I'm guessing it'll be similar to
    the decorative ring you get from the Cata troll dungeon quest

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    OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Does your character have mining? I wonder if the huge yield is due to that if so.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    On the subject of the legendary ring, I like it. The cape was a good choice but flawed in that there's only one cape slot so once you have the legendary all cape drops are now completely useless to you. With the ring, one slot is taken but that still leaves another one to choose from. Plus everyone likes visual effects!

    Every time I coin a cape off Norushen I die a little inside. Every time I coin the damn trinket I make a strangled sound.

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    I'm not sure why anyone would have expected anything different for the final raid boss of WoD.

    I mean, I'm as sick as anyone of the orcorcorcorcorcorcorcorcorcorcorc focus; but they made it clear this xpack didn't have any real overriding 'big bad', no one really orchestrating things behind the scenes, so it seemed like that result was a given.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I expected something different because we're entering Draenor right when Gul'dan was supposed to make the contract with the Legion. He's already drunk the blood, made contact with Mannoroth, and all that. The Legion knows Draenor exists now and I really don't think they'd just give up on it after Gul'dan's attempt at getting the orcs on the Legion's side failed. I think they'd come through anyway and instead of taking the orcs as troops they'd just wipe them out.

    Haven't seen the cinematic yet since it's blocked at work, so I have no idea what's in it.

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Madican wrote: »
    I expected something different because we're entering Draenor right when Gul'dan was supposed to make the contract with the Legion. He's already drunk the blood, made contact with Mannoroth, and all that. The Legion knows Draenor exists now and I really don't think they'd just give up on it after Gul'dan's attempt at getting the orcs on the Legion's side failed. I think they'd come through anyway and instead of taking the orcs as troops they'd just wipe them out.

    Haven't seen the cinematic yet since it's blocked at work, so I have no idea what's in it.

    That wouldn't make any sense on the part of the Legion.

    They used the Orcs because they were muscle the Burning Legion needed. They needed Gul'dan and the warlocks to even open up the portals not only to Azeroth, but to let demons through. They don't have the means to mount an invasion on their own into Draenor, and even if they did it would be entirely counterproductive because Orcs aside there's absolutely nothing on Draenor the Burning Legion wants. They want Azeroth, and their hope was the Orcs were the means they could achieve that. Without Gul'dan convincing Grom and thus the rest of the Orcs to drink the blood of Mannoroth, the Burning Legion is left with no beachhead on Draenor at all.

    There's no reason they'd then send a force to wipe out the Orcs because it would serve no purpose. It wouldn't put them in any sort of position to assault Azeroth, and the amount of losses they'd take trying to pointlessly wipe out a race on a planet that otherwise has nothing to do with their goals, would put them at an even larger disadvantage for any future ventures onto Azeroth.

    Taking the Legion out of the picture in regards to the Orcs on Draenor would have, under normal circumstances, had no bearing at all on Azeroth or the goals of the Burning Legion; but because Garrosh was there, the orcs are aware of the ability to travel to Azeroth (which didn't require anything from the Legion aside from knowledge) and used that ability.

    Granted, the idea they'd then go to an otherwise completely unrelated planet (Azeroth is meaningless to Draenor without the Legion connection) and invade and not only kill the existing races, but the remnants of what their race would become, doesn't actually make any sense at all. Particularly given that we know the portal they used for the initial invasion waaaaaay back when could have gone to various worlds, Azeroth was just one of a number. It's a pretty big stretch to assume Garrosh had that big of a sway on Grom to convince him to invade a planet that otherwise would have had zero bearing on Draenor or the Iron Horde.

    EDIT: And Garrosh has never once shown any interest, nor knowledge, of the Well of Eternity, it's power, purpose or anything like that to dangle as a carrot in front of Grom. But I assume that's going to be what they're going with as the reason for their invasion.

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Madican wrote: »
    Can Wrathion just, like, not be a bad guy that we're probably going to be forced into killing because of Metzen?
    You either die a hero or live long enough to drop some purples.

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Halfmex wrote: »
    So, something about the garrison I noticed with regard to materials/professions:

    The mine you get (or can get, not sure if it's a plug or required addition) generates an absolutely absurd amount of ore daily, or at least I believe it's daily. In just one pass through my mine, I netted 220 True Iron ore (the standard ore in WoD) and 142 Blackrock ore (the 'special' ore in WoD). That's on one character. Unless crafted items are going to require an insane number of materials, I can't imagine there's going to be much use to having at least mining on any of my characters. If you can get a similar amount of resources via skinning and herbing in the garrison, I can't see how anyone would be able to turn much of a profit on the AH with those resources.

    I have a feeling the materials acquired are going to be toned down. In Nagrand, I'm currently getting 12-20 skins per mob, and 5 blue furs when I use the daily skill.

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Acharenus wrote: »
    Was expecting a slightly longer cinametic...maybe showing how/why garrosh was able to go back in time and create an alternate time line...set up the expansion...like metzen was just saying.

    Actually almost everything in this post is answered in a book, War Crimes (about Garrosh trial, escape, and time travel). The only not answered part is "how iron horde" but I think they are doing that in these vignettes cinematics they are releasing starting with Kargath.

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    I did find it funny that Grom was in the exact same position after killing Mannoroth that was he was in WC3, except this time Garrosh just kinda jump on him to get him out of the way.

    I think that's the point, and part of the reason he always hated Thrall. If he can do it why could not Thrall? Never mind that hindsight is 20x20.

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    The length of time beyond Patch 6.1 that you are unable to fly in Draenor will be decided upon by the community as a whole. If players enjoy it then it could last longer. If players overwhelming want flight back by Patch 6.1, then they will most likely get it.

    And just how the fuck are they going to determine that?

    Because, you know, what Blizzard has shown is that they're fantastic at actually monitoring and determining what the community as a whole want. :rotate:

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Acharenus wrote: »
    Was expecting a slightly longer cinametic...maybe showing how/why garrosh was able to go back in time and create an alternate time line...set up the expansion...like metzen was just saying.

    Actually almost everything in this post is answered in a book, War Crimes (about Garrosh trial, escape, and time travel). The only not answered part is "how iron horde" but I think they are doing that in these vignettes cinematics they are releasing starting with Kargath.

    I think the vignettes are more just backstory for the various warlords. "how iron horde" can basically be answered by the "go back to medieval times with a bunch of present technology" time travel scenario.

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    The orcs attacked the Draenei before Gul'dan offered the demon blood. Kil'jaeden tricked Ner'zhul into thinking the Draenei were going to attack. Once Ner'zhul figured it out, he was replaced by Gul'dan who tricked them into drinking the blood before their attack on Shattrath. I guess they wanted to fight more? I'm not really sure why they'd go through the whole invasion thing again. They aren't high on bloodlust, so they don't really need to.

    Because Garrosh convinces his dad that all non orcs are dicks and need to be wiped out.

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I mean, it's basically Back to the Future Part 2

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Having no real knowledge of his role in WoD, except I guess having a hand in Garrosh going free?, I'm not seeing anything really that would indicate him becoming a big bad, really; just that he needs to do some growing up and understanding the mistakes his father made and not repeating that.

    I don't doubt we'll fight him at some point, but not as a bad guy, really.

    He directly helps Garry escape from Pandas.

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    AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    The length of time beyond Patch 6.1 that you are unable to fly in Draenor will be decided upon by the community as a whole. If players enjoy it then it could last longer. If players overwhelming want flight back by Patch 6.1, then they will most likely get it.

    And just how the fuck are they going to determine that?

    Because, you know, what Blizzard has shown is that they're fantastic at actually monitoring and determining what the community as a whole want. :rotate:

    Most of would just need to ask ourselves "Would the community like flying mounts to disappear from the game effectively for an expansion?"

    The answer comes back "Of course not, don't be stupid" for me but maybe common sense is in short supply over there.

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    My hope was that we'd deal with the Iron Horde in the first two raid tiers and then the REAL threat, the Legion, suddenly shows up for the latter half of the expansion.
    Would be a good setup for taking the fight to Sargeras in the following expansion through the other Draenor/Outland portals.

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    MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    To be fair, ask 10 WoW players what they want from an expac, and you'll get 13 answers.

    And all of them will be pissed at you when you come out with new content.

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Having no real knowledge of his role in WoD, except I guess having a hand in Garrosh going free?, I'm not seeing anything really that would indicate him becoming a big bad, really; just that he needs to do some growing up and understanding the mistakes his father made and not repeating that.

    I don't doubt we'll fight him at some point, but not as a bad guy, really.

    He directly helps Garry escape from Pandas.

    This kind of jives with Wrathion at the end of the legendary quest chain where he explains that he was secretly pulling for Varian all along, and was hoping instead of sparing Orgimmar he would conquer and unite the Horde against the Legion.

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