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Depression and Mental Illness and Maybe Something Happier Like Puppies

1235

Posts

  • wiltingwilting regular Registered User regular
    Well, isn't that lovely.

    Atomika
  • PLAPLA regular The process.Registered User regular
    Bloodsamples are near effortless on the patient's part. Even stethoscoping requires very little attention. For surgery, a patient can take a nap. It's stuff other people fix for you.

    MorninglordPolaritie
  • MorninglordMorninglord regular Registered User regular
    wilting wrote: »
    The point I'm trying to make is, often when you are suffering from mental illness, you don't know you are. You don't realize that there is anything wrong with your thinking that any therapist or techniques could help you with. You just think that your internal assessment is the correct one.

    I wasn't arguing against you. It was a different point offered in complement. I agree with you.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    wilting wrote: »
    Recognizing that this is the problem in the first place, and not that you are just recognizing the reality of how awful everything is, is the most difficult and most important hurdle.

    I still maintain that the world is an awful place, and everyone else is delusional. I'd just like to participate in the delusion.
    Atomika wrote: »
    While I may suffer from depression, it isn't a vague and unfocused depression. I'm depressed because my family sucks and I can't be myself without causing a world of problems that will undoubtedly harm me and, by extension, my wife and child.

    This is a situation I find interesting. I have a friend who is depressed. She's a single mother, two kids, no stable source of income, terrible relationship with mom / dad, victim of sexual violence, etc. And my thought is that, yes, she is depressed, but she has good reason to be. Being happy in her situation would be weird. Being depressed makes sense.

    As opposed to my situation where everything is objectively keen, and I'm miserable.

    I'm not sure how depression in shitty situations works. It seems less a disease...and more just...yeah, your situation sucks.

    AtomikaJuliusCalica
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D regular Registered User regular
    @_J_‌

    Depression in shitty situations can go away once the situation is resolved, or it can trigger the kind of depression you have.

  • MorninglordMorninglord regular Registered User regular
    Which means it then doesn't go away when it is resolved.

    And also it can make that situation worse if it happens in the middle of natural depression, because if the situation can be improved they now fundamentally lack the motivation to do so.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
    redxPLAPhoenix-D
  • HamHamJHamHamJ regular Registered User regular
    I vaguely remember studies that your actual situation doesn't matter that much. People predisposed to be happy will generally be happy regardless, and vice versa.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • NobeardNobeard regular North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    wilting wrote: »
    Recognizing that this is the problem in the first place, and not that you are just recognizing the reality of how awful everything is, is the most difficult and most important hurdle.

    I still maintain that the world is an awful place, and everyone else is delusional. I'd just like to participate in the delusion.
    Atomika wrote: »
    While I may suffer from depression, it isn't a vague and unfocused depression. I'm depressed because my family sucks and I can't be myself without causing a world of problems that will undoubtedly harm me and, by extension, my wife and child.

    This is a situation I find interesting. I have a friend who is depressed. She's a single mother, two kids, no stable source of income, terrible relationship with mom / dad, victim of sexual violence, etc. And my thought is that, yes, she is depressed, but she has good reason to be. Being happy in her situation would be weird. Being depressed makes sense.

    As opposed to my situation where everything is objectively keen, and I'm miserable.

    I'm not sure how depression in shitty situations works. It seems less a disease...and more just...yeah, your situation sucks.

    There is never a good reason to be depressed. For your friend, sadness and worry are to be expected in her situation. But she does not need to suffer from depression.

    I don't want to marginalize peoples very real problems, so I want to be very clear here: there are legitimate causes of depression, but depression should not be the default state of being for anyone.

    There is a lot more I want to say, but I'm at work, so I'm leaving this short and to the point.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • PLAPLA regular The process.Registered User regular
    Being miserable in miserable circumstances makes sense, but isn't more enjoyable or productive than usual.

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    wilting wrote: »
    The thing about mental illness is well, that you are mentally ill. Recognizing that this is the problem in the first place, and not that you are just recognizing the reality of how awful everything is, is the most difficult and most important hurdle. You aren't thinking: "well clearly I'm all messed up in the head and need to talk to someone about it" your internal confirmation bias is going: "clearly my understanding of the world/myself is correct, and that world/self is awful".

    Sometimes, but sometimes not.

    While I may suffer from depression, it isn't a vague and unfocused depression. I'm depressed because my family sucks and I can't be myself without causing a world of problems that will undoubtedly harm me and, by extension, my wife and child.

    I have the opposite experience. My life is pretty good. there are certain external things that can trigger my depression (money and work stress are the most common ones)...

    ...but I've also found that sometimes depressive episodes just come out of nowhere, and when they do, my mind goes searching for things to be depressed about. For instance, my car needs some transmission work; it still runs okay, it just doesn't shift quite right. Under normal circumstances, this is just something on my priority list to get done in the next few months. if I'm having a bad mood swing, then my car is going to leave me stranded someplace in the snow and the repairs are gonna ruin my financial life, and fuck I'm never gonna be able to save money for a house or retirement because all this other shit keeps happening and I'm going to die poor and lonely.

    I had to learn a long time ago, that no matter how much it feels like X is making me depressed, sometimes I'm thinking about X because I'm depressed.

    On the other hand, I despise pollyannas who say shit like "happiness is a choice, just choose to have a better attitude." Fuck that. Every time I see one of those inspirational images on Facebook I want to reply with a Dorothea Lange photo.

    Judging stressors accurately is a learned skill for some people. I don't think it necessarily comes automatically.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    Geth_J_JuliusbowenBamaNightDragonAtomikaPLAThe EnderLoveIsUnityMartini_PhilosopherMrVyngaardNartwak
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    _J_ wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    While I may suffer from depression, it isn't a vague and unfocused depression. I'm depressed because my family sucks and I can't be myself without causing a world of problems that will undoubtedly harm me and, by extension, my wife and child.

    This is a situation I find interesting. I have a friend who is depressed. She's a single mother, two kids, no stable source of income, terrible relationship with mom / dad, victim of sexual violence, etc. And my thought is that, yes, she is depressed, but she has good reason to be. Being happy in her situation would be weird. Being depressed makes sense.

    As opposed to my situation where everything is objectively keen, and I'm miserable.

    I'm not sure how depression in shitty situations works. It seems less a disease...and more just...yeah, your situation sucks.

    It's important to remember that depression is normal. Part of the DSM was a time period after an event that should be considered when diagnosing depression as a disorder (it was modified fairly recently). In my psych class the professors posited that the most important question when diagnosing something as a 'disorder', and thereby requiring treatment, was "Is this impacting the person's daily life and/or survival".
    A person could be depressed, or manic, or get very tired regularly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have clinical depression, mania, or mild narcolepsy.

    It's sort of similar to how many people could easily fall onto some part of the autism spectrum but that doesn't mean that they have autism.

    Dedwrekka on
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    In my psych class the professors posited that the most important question when diagnosing something as a 'disorder', and thereby requiring treatment, was "Is this impacting the person's daily life and/or survival".
    A person could be depressed, or manic, or get very tired regularly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have depression, mania, or mild narcolepsy.

    It's sort of similar to how many people could easily fall onto some part of the autism spectrum but that doesn't mean that they have autism.

    This sounds waaaay too subjective, and conflicts with the fMRI / brain chemistry stuff we previously discussed. We don't diagnose broken legs and syphilis by assessing how a person's daily life is affected.

    Saying the diagnosis of a mental disorder is, in part, attitudinal sounds like a criticism one would make before saying, "olol soft science".

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    In my psych class the professors posited that the most important question when diagnosing something as a 'disorder', and thereby requiring treatment, was "Is this impacting the person's daily life and/or survival".
    A person could be depressed, or manic, or get very tired regularly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have depression, mania, or mild narcolepsy.

    It's sort of similar to how many people could easily fall onto some part of the autism spectrum but that doesn't mean that they have autism.

    This sounds waaaay too subjective, and conflicts with the fMRI / brain chemistry stuff we previously discussed. We don't diagnose broken legs and syphilis by assessing how a person's daily life is affected.

    Saying the diagnosis of a mental disorder is, in part, attitudinal sounds like a criticism one would make before saying, "olol soft science".

    Is there a difference between the brain chemistry of someone who is depressed after the death of a loved one and the brain chemistry of someone who has been depressed for over a year and needs treatment?

  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    In my psych class the professors posited that the most important question when diagnosing something as a 'disorder', and thereby requiring treatment, was "Is this impacting the person's daily life and/or survival".
    A person could be depressed, or manic, or get very tired regularly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have depression, mania, or mild narcolepsy.

    It's sort of similar to how many people could easily fall onto some part of the autism spectrum but that doesn't mean that they have autism.

    This sounds waaaay too subjective, and conflicts with the fMRI / brain chemistry stuff we previously discussed. We don't diagnose broken legs and syphilis by assessing how a person's daily life is affected.

    Saying the diagnosis of a mental disorder is, in part, attitudinal sounds like a criticism one would make before saying, "olol soft science".

    Is there a difference between the brain chemistry of someone who is depressed after the death of a loved one and the brain chemistry of someone who has been depressed for over a year and needs treatment?

    Someone isn't depressed after the death of a loved one, they are sad and in a period of mourning. It may sound like a technical difference, but it's pretty important.

    steam_sig.png
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Aistan wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    In my psych class the professors posited that the most important question when diagnosing something as a 'disorder', and thereby requiring treatment, was "Is this impacting the person's daily life and/or survival".
    A person could be depressed, or manic, or get very tired regularly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have depression, mania, or mild narcolepsy.

    It's sort of similar to how many people could easily fall onto some part of the autism spectrum but that doesn't mean that they have autism.

    This sounds waaaay too subjective, and conflicts with the fMRI / brain chemistry stuff we previously discussed. We don't diagnose broken legs and syphilis by assessing how a person's daily life is affected.

    Saying the diagnosis of a mental disorder is, in part, attitudinal sounds like a criticism one would make before saying, "olol soft science".

    Is there a difference between the brain chemistry of someone who is depressed after the death of a loved one and the brain chemistry of someone who has been depressed for over a year and needs treatment?

    Someone isn't depressed after the death of a loved one, they are sad and in a period of mourning. It may sound like a technical difference, but it's pretty important.

    They can express the same symptoms as someone with clinical depression, which is why the DSM had a time period before diagnosing it as clinical depression.

    Dedwrekka on
    Julius
  • MorninglordMorninglord regular Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    _J_ wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    In my psych class the professors posited that the most important question when diagnosing something as a 'disorder', and thereby requiring treatment, was "Is this impacting the person's daily life and/or survival".
    A person could be depressed, or manic, or get very tired regularly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have depression, mania, or mild narcolepsy.

    It's sort of similar to how many people could easily fall onto some part of the autism spectrum but that doesn't mean that they have autism.

    This sounds waaaay too subjective, and conflicts with the fMRI / brain chemistry stuff we previously discussed. We don't diagnose broken legs and syphilis by assessing how a person's daily life is affected.

    Saying the diagnosis of a mental disorder is, in part, attitudinal sounds like a criticism one would make before saying, "olol soft science".

    People vary. Ignoring that is ignoring a fundamental part of human existence, something you criticised before.

    Dysfunction is the most important part of a diagnosis. It isn't the only one. You look at the symptoms. Then you find out the details of the persons current life. Then you find out if they are experiencing dysfunction in that life as a result. Otherwise it isn't a "disorder". It's problematic for the person, but if they are functioning, if they are clearly depressed in personality, but not to the point of it actually impacting their life, why force medications down their throat? With a functional life its highly likely the depression will lift normally with time. Also, some personalities, genuine ones, very quiet people, can initially appear to be depressed on first meeting them. But they aren't.
    The logic makes sense.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • NobeardNobeard regular North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    In my psych class the professors posited that the most important question when diagnosing something as a 'disorder', and thereby requiring treatment, was "Is this impacting the person's daily life and/or survival".
    A person could be depressed, or manic, or get very tired regularly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have depression, mania, or mild narcolepsy.

    It's sort of similar to how many people could easily fall onto some part of the autism spectrum but that doesn't mean that they have autism.

    This sounds waaaay too subjective, and conflicts with the fMRI / brain chemistry stuff we previously discussed. We don't diagnose broken legs and syphilis by assessing how a person's daily life is affected.

    Saying the diagnosis of a mental disorder is, in part, attitudinal sounds like a criticism one would make before saying, "olol soft science".

    Is there a difference between the brain chemistry of someone who is depressed after the death of a loved one and the brain chemistry of someone who has been depressed for over a year and needs treatment?

    That is an extremely good question, and I wish we had a way to find out. Part of the problem is that the death of a loved one may very well trigger depression, and then how do you tell them apart? Maybe it's just a matter of duration? And good luck finding someone in serious mourning who would volunteer to have thier brain juice tested.

    Mental disorders and obesity, once science gets these figured out, true utopia will be had. We'll all be mentally well adjusted and physically fit!

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    In my psych class the professors posited that the most important question when diagnosing something as a 'disorder', and thereby requiring treatment, was "Is this impacting the person's daily life and/or survival".
    A person could be depressed, or manic, or get very tired regularly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have depression, mania, or mild narcolepsy.

    It's sort of similar to how many people could easily fall onto some part of the autism spectrum but that doesn't mean that they have autism.

    This sounds waaaay too subjective, and conflicts with the fMRI / brain chemistry stuff we previously discussed. We don't diagnose broken legs and syphilis by assessing how a person's daily life is affected.

    Saying the diagnosis of a mental disorder is, in part, attitudinal sounds like a criticism one would make before saying, "olol soft science".

    Is there a difference between the brain chemistry of someone who is depressed after the death of a loved one and the brain chemistry of someone who has been depressed for over a year and needs treatment?

    Yes.

    There is a lot of confounding overlap, but there are also a number of differentiating markers. (Example.)

    Note that it's not really clear what the differences mean yet. I am merely answering the question: yes, there are differences.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    _J_Kamar
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    In my psych class the professors posited that the most important question when diagnosing something as a 'disorder', and thereby requiring treatment, was "Is this impacting the person's daily life and/or survival".
    A person could be depressed, or manic, or get very tired regularly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have depression, mania, or mild narcolepsy.

    It's sort of similar to how many people could easily fall onto some part of the autism spectrum but that doesn't mean that they have autism.

    This sounds waaaay too subjective, and conflicts with the fMRI / brain chemistry stuff we previously discussed. We don't diagnose broken legs and syphilis by assessing how a person's daily life is affected.

    Saying the diagnosis of a mental disorder is, in part, attitudinal sounds like a criticism one would make before saying, "olol soft science".

    Is there a difference between the brain chemistry of someone who is depressed after the death of a loved one and the brain chemistry of someone who has been depressed for over a year and needs treatment?

    That is an extremely good question, and I wish we had a way to find out. Part of the problem is that the death of a loved one may very well trigger depression, and then how do you tell them apart? Maybe it's just a matter of duration? And good luck finding someone in serious mourning who would volunteer to have thier brain juice tested.

    Mental disorders and obesity, once science gets these figured out, true utopia will be had. We'll all be mentally well adjusted and physically fit!

    As soon as they approve the Aicar and GW1516 cocktail for human use I'm jumping on. GW1516 plus exercise increase fat burning and production of slow twitch muscles. Aicar increases fat burning and endurance by turning on the production of mitochondria.
    http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2008/08/04/drug-improves-endurance-without-need-for-exercise/
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/marathon-mouse.html

    Dedwrekka on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    We don't diagnose broken legs and syphilis by assessing how a person's daily life is affected.

    We do that for some physiological states.

    You have bacteria in your intestine - is that a disease state or a healthy state?

    Depends on how it affects you.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    In my psych class the professors posited that the most important question when diagnosing something as a 'disorder', and thereby requiring treatment, was "Is this impacting the person's daily life and/or survival".
    A person could be depressed, or manic, or get very tired regularly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have depression, mania, or mild narcolepsy.

    It's sort of similar to how many people could easily fall onto some part of the autism spectrum but that doesn't mean that they have autism.

    This sounds waaaay too subjective, and conflicts with the fMRI / brain chemistry stuff we previously discussed. We don't diagnose broken legs and syphilis by assessing how a person's daily life is affected.

    Saying the diagnosis of a mental disorder is, in part, attitudinal sounds like a criticism one would make before saying, "olol soft science".

    Is there a difference between the brain chemistry of someone who is depressed after the death of a loved one and the brain chemistry of someone who has been depressed for over a year and needs treatment?

    Yes.

    There is a lot of confounding overlap, but there are also a number of differentiating markers. (Example.)

    Note that it's not really clear what the differences mean yet. I am merely answering the question: yes, there are differences.

    Cool, so we know there are some differences, but not enough to know what that means.

    Can we diagnose based on those differences yet?

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    In my psych class the professors posited that the most important question when diagnosing something as a 'disorder', and thereby requiring treatment, was "Is this impacting the person's daily life and/or survival".
    A person could be depressed, or manic, or get very tired regularly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have depression, mania, or mild narcolepsy.

    It's sort of similar to how many people could easily fall onto some part of the autism spectrum but that doesn't mean that they have autism.

    This sounds waaaay too subjective, and conflicts with the fMRI / brain chemistry stuff we previously discussed. We don't diagnose broken legs and syphilis by assessing how a person's daily life is affected.

    Saying the diagnosis of a mental disorder is, in part, attitudinal sounds like a criticism one would make before saying, "olol soft science".

    Is there a difference between the brain chemistry of someone who is depressed after the death of a loved one and the brain chemistry of someone who has been depressed for over a year and needs treatment?

    Yes.

    There is a lot of confounding overlap, but there are also a number of differentiating markers. (Example.)

    Note that it's not really clear what the differences mean yet. I am merely answering the question: yes, there are differences.

    Cool, so we know there are some differences, but not enough to know what that means.

    Can we diagnose based on those differences yet?

    No, but that's probably more due to cost and availability than knowledge.

    The idea of diagnosing depression based on fMRI, despite being floated around in conversation or mused upon in articles, is never really seriously considered by anybody with any decision-making power.

    However, genetic markers are proving fruitful avenues for diagnostic technology. For example, it's entirely possible that we will see a blood test within our lifetimes - http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20140916/blood-test-spots-adult-depression-study

    And it will be interesting to see how the availability of that blood test causes people to filter out into different subtypes, and how it changes depression diagnoses overall.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    Morninglord_J_DedwrekkaredxShadowfire
  • MorninglordMorninglord regular Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Btw Feral, are you aware of recent research in fMRI? They've found that more efficient neurons use less blood. Which has implications for fMRI analysis.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Btw Feral, are you aware of recent research in fMRI? They've found that more efficient neurons use less blood. Which has implications for fMRI analysis.

    I was not aware of that, but that is funny.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • JuliusJulius regular Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Btw Feral, are you aware of recent research in fMRI? They've found that more efficient neurons use less blood. Which has implications for fMRI analysis.

    I was not aware of that, but that is funny.

    So we just flip all conclusions, right?

  • MorninglordMorninglord regular Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Julius wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Btw Feral, are you aware of recent research in fMRI? They've found that more efficient neurons use less blood. Which has implications for fMRI analysis.

    I was not aware of that, but that is funny.

    So we just flip all conclusions, right?

    Not quite. More efficient doesn't mean reversed. And it only occurs for efficient neural connections, neurons get more efficient the stronger the connections between them. It makes it more complicated, vastly more complicated, but the fact is if a part of the brain suddenly becomes much more activated than another, efficient or not it will still require more bloodflow.

    http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/08/05/3818268.htm
    "We suspect that this is something that's particularly important for long-term practice, long-term skill performance such as in physicians and athletes, but at this point we can't tell when the change occurs and how much practice it takes to get to that stage," she says.

    The researchers suggested that the neurons involved in learning these motor tasks may become more efficient over time and repetition, so that they require less energy to maintain the same level of activity.

    Possible mechanisms include long-lasting enhancement of the signal transmission between neurons or the formation of more synapses - the structures that enable neurons to transmit signals to other neurons.

    They found it while studying the motor cortex.

    What I really like about this finding is that it parallels the greater efficiency of well honed endurance muscle tissue.

    It seems to me that the evolutionary advantage of greater energy efficiency would mean that energy efficiency would shape a great deal of the brain...but at the same time, the way that they become efficient may preclude making fast changes (particularly if its based on extremely strong long term potentiation)...so it would harm one of the greatest benefits of our brain: its tremendous adaptability and flexibility to novelty. Imo I expect to see the various marks of the needs of energy efficiency all over the brains structure and general use: but I would also expect that, for other parts, for other functions, the reverse would actually be more beneficial.
    I'd be very interested in a similar study on the prefrontal areas of the brain, for example. Or the hippocampus.

    Anyway, I'm digressing again. I found it out recently and meant to tell Feral. I thought it would be good to mention it here while I'm at it.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    It means what looks like "slightly more" activated might actually be "much more", but... I think it means we need more readings more than anything else - to determine baselines for low and high activity for any given spot.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
    MorninglordFeral
  • IanatorIanator Delightfully mediocre! Registered User regular
    Hello! I seem to have a case of clinical depression.

    It feels like an empty cold spot inside my chest. It makes me want to curl up in bed. Except sometimes it's summer and my house doesn't have a central A/C installed despite kinda being in the desert. So instead of warming up I have to cool off with a fan. Except I absolutely hate the feel of cold wind (probably a manifestation of my autism) so instead of feeling relieved I just feel miserable. So I play the vidya games to feel better until I have to do something else.

    I think about my childhood sometimes and wonder if I ever really had it good or bad. Despite preschool classes for early childhood development and speech therapy during normal elementary years I have always lacked the ability (or the will?) to speak up. While I've always been considered "gifted" and took the special classes in middle school our group was pretty isolated from the rest of the grades. I vaguely remember the last day of seventh grade where each class had a pinata and all I could think was, "Where's our pinata?"

    And now I'm here today at an age where I'm expected to have a growing family, a steady job and two Bachelor's Degrees in Something Or Another. Except I'm incapable of starting relationships by myself, growing increasingly frightened by the prospect of another job after my last one and, after eight years of doing my own thing, only now going back to college to get a degree.

    I always feel frustrated by the smallest of my mistakes, especially those that have reverberations over time. For instance, I'm still kicking myself over getting my 3DS wet and shorting it out, as if a good friend who suddenly passed away and whom I'm constantly reminded of. I also get disproportionately agitated at small annoyances like when a video or stream I'm watching refuses to buffer smoothly. I'm horrible at consistent personal hygiene and I fear if my mother ever passed away suddenly I would be left incapable of taking care of myself.

    In some ways I can't even afford to take care of myself - I desperately need to visit an oral surgeon, for instance, and a thirty-day supply of my prescribed antidepressant costs over one hundred dollars after insurance which is why I haven't taken any since August of last year. Also I didn't like how it made me feel caffeinated but I didn't take it consistently enough to really know if it helped at all.

    Everything just kind of feeds back into itself. So here I sit, the comfort zone of my computer, where the victories are small. Yet even the most superficial of losses kill my enthusiasm for things. Like putting effort into growing myself.

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  • The EnderThe Ender regular Registered User regular
    I am a depressed person.


    I am currently staring at the pile of refuse that's been building on my desk for, like, a week and a half. I need to clean this shit up. It would take maybe 5 minutes. It would take even less time if I'd just dispose of packaging properly rather than leaving it on the desk... but since the desk is already kinda dirty anyway, and I'd have to walk to the garbage can, and I'm the only person who really uses this desk anyway...

    My oral hygiene is atrocious. I know it's atrocious; it's part of the reason i don't like smiling. I know people will see my busted ass teeth and be grossed-out. But if I want to brush my teeth, I'd have to go and pull out the toothpaste & brush, I'd have to sit there and brush away... and does anyone know if this works anyway? I'm probably not even doing it right. Besides, my mouth is basically written-off at this point anyway, so whatever...


    Memories of how bad these problems were before i was on medication has been a motivator for me. Things would go for weeks, sometimes months, without being cleaned. I wouldn't go to the grocery store until my head absolutely pounded because I hadn't eaten anything aside from Advil & Tums. I remember really bad nights, where i felt like I was talking with the boatman & just haggling over the rate to cross the Styx. It'll upset my parents? Eh, fuck it, I don't care and they probably don't care. It'll upset my sister? ...Yeah, I guess. My brother too? I guess so. My grandparents would maybe literally explode, killing everyone unfortunate enough to be within a kilometer of their home? ...Yeah.


    That Solomon clip from TED is sobering.

    With Love and Courage
    Ianator
  • EupfhoriaEupfhoria regular Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    This topic has been enlightening for me as well, and I really appreciate that people are posting some deeply personal stuff about what's going on in their brains. I also feel like the timing of this thread is more than coincidence, as I've been computer-less for about a year now, and now that I've come back to this (fucking great, by the way) community, and this is on the front page of D&D? The logic-driven side of me says that there's no such thing, but the other says that I was meant to see this.

    I've been dealing with major depression since I was at least about 12 or 13, if not before that and I just had no idea of such things or what to call them. I'm 30 now, a few short months from 31. I can't remember not being depressed for more than maybe a few months, at most, out of that time.

    The defining feature of my experience is isolation. All my life, the thing I want most, more than any other thing in the universe, is to not feel so fucking alone. Isolation even from the the people I love most or in truth the only people I do love; my parents and immediate family. Isolation from my peers and my 'friends'. Self-imposed isolation stemming from a raging hatred of myself.

    The desire not to feel this way has led me down paths that I wish I had not walked more than once. I first started getting into drug use for these reasons, although that quickly became a nightmarish feedback cycle. In the end that path led to two years in a state correctional facility. Related to this was a tendency to treat my family like shit and push them away when all they wanted to do was help. Thankfully my family are some of the best people in the world, and I've been able to repair much of that damage, and am still doing everything within my power to continue to do so.

    There's been so many times in my life, so many fucking times, when I've felt what I can only describe as a desperate need to communicate and express my innermost thoughts and feelings to those close to me, or those I've wanted to become closer to. And every time something rises up and stops me. Sometimes, often in fact, it feels like a physical block to verbal communication. This has become so much better in recent years, but only really with my family. I am still apparently unable to form any kind of meaningful personal relationship with any other human on the planet.

    You may have noticed that I placed quotes around the word friends above. I'm not entirely sure if I have any experience with what that word really means, or what I think it should mean. All but a very few of my friends from earlier in life were just there, as I can see now, to join me in a self-destructive downward spiral, and maybe get some free drugs or money out of the deal. I've had several thousand dollars stolen, or not paid back, by a few of them. I spent the night before I had to get sentenced for the aforementioned legal troubles drinking and just generally trying (and failing) to push away the thoughts of what was to come with a few friends. The last thing one of them said to me, knowing that I was going to prison, was "have fun". Yeah, alright.

    More recently, I've relocated to a new place and have been attempting to finish a degree in college. By my own standards (whatever the fuck that's worth), I've been pushing myself to be more social, and to try and meet women. I've been rejected by every single woman I've approached, and the people I've ended up being around are coworkers and are some of the most disgustingly misogynistic people I've ever met, including when I was in jail. One of these people is alright, and I think is just sucked into a group mentality, and I've been trying to open up to him. But I've noticed that I'm slowly but surely being pushed away. The others can go fuck themselves entirely, though. For instance, I've been fairly open about my lack of success in meeting women, which isn't exactly an easy thing to do. On more than one occasion, one of these individuals has blatantly opposed my attempts; once by literally sitting between myself and a girl I had just met and was talking to. Is this what friendship is like? I honestly wouldn't even fucking know at this point.

    I think I will stop writing soon, as I think I might be starting to become incoherent. Anyways, what you guys have posted here has helped me realize that I really need to see a therapist. Just to have someone to talk to. That's all. Now, the trouble is though, (aside from finding time to do so) I have this feeling that I will walk in, sit down, and find myself unable to verbally articulate any of the emotional chaos that fills my mind on a daily fucking basis. I know this is what will happen, even while being aware of the self-defeating nature of this thought process

    Eupfhoria on
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  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2014
    Ianator wrote: »
    In some ways I can't even afford to take care of myself - I desperately need to visit an oral surgeon, for instance, and a thirty-day supply of my prescribed antidepressant costs over one hundred dollars after insurance which is why I haven't taken any since August of last year. Also I didn't like how it made me feel caffeinated but I didn't take it consistently enough to really know if it helped at all.

    Antidepressants are not like Tylenol, something you pop when you feel the need. They are a daily (usually) medication that take time (around a month) to build up in one's system, and take effect. Most of the immediate effects people feel are just placebo reactions.

    I say this not to reprimand you, but rather to indicate that, given what you posted, you likely did not take enough to know how they actually impacted your mood.

    If cost is a problem, ask your doctor whether you can get the meds for free, or at a reduced price. When I was on Abilify, I filed some paperwork with Bristol-Myers Squibb, and they sent me free meds. Linky link to their page. Another option is sample packs, which your doctor likely receives.

    _J_ on
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Eupfhoria wrote: »
    I think I will stop writing soon, as I think I might be starting to become incoherent. Anyways, what you guys have posted here has helped me realize that I really need to see a therapist. Just to have someone to talk to. That's all. Now, the trouble is though, (aside from finding time to do so) I have this feeling that I will walk in, sit down, and find myself unable to verbally articulate any of the emotional chaos that fills my mind on a daily fucking basis. I know this is what will happen, even while being aware of the self-defeating nature of this thought process

    They are trained to poke you in ways that can help with articulating your thoughts / feelings.

    Don't avoid therapy out of a fear that it won't work. Give it a chance.

    MrVyngaard
  • EupfhoriaEupfhoria regular Registered User regular
    don't get me wrong, I fully intend to make time to do it soon. I'm trying to hold on to the perspective that I don't need to trust myself to be able to talk to someone, I just need to try and trust them to help me do so

    steam_sig.png
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Eupfhoria wrote: »
    I'm trying to hold on to the perspective that I don't need to trust myself to be able to talk to someone

    ?

    Say more.

  • MorninglordMorninglord regular Registered User regular
    If the therapist is really good, they'll be able to teach you how to unravel the knots in your thinking even when you are not at the therapist.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    Ianator wrote: »
    In some ways I can't even afford to take care of myself - I desperately need to visit an oral surgeon, for instance, and a thirty-day supply of my prescribed antidepressant costs over one hundred dollars after insurance which is why I haven't taken any since August of last year. Also I didn't like how it made me feel caffeinated but I didn't take it consistently enough to really know if it helped at all.

    Antidepressants are not like Tylenol, something you pop when you feel the need. They are a daily (usually) medication that take time (around a month) to build up in one's system, and take effect. Most of the immediate effects people feel are just placebo reactions.

    I say this not to reprimand you, but rather to indicate that, given what you posted, you likely did not take enough to know how they actually impacted your mood.

    If cost is a problem, ask your doctor whether you can get the meds for free, or at a reduced price. When I was on Abilify, I filed some paperwork with Bristol-Myers Squibb, and they sent me free meds. Linky link to their page. Another option is sample packs, which your doctor likely receives.
    Additionally, generic SSRIs are really cheap. Lexapro and Zoloft are less than $10 before insurance. I think the doctors just prescribe the brand stuff because it's new and expensive and possibly because they got a bunch of free stuff with logos. I was also originally prescribed a stupidly expensive one, I think it was Lexapro before it was generic, and there was Lexapro shit all over his office. But I asked him about it and he changed it to just citalopram. Later I switched to Zoloft and that has been great for me, although there are some side effects I could really do without. Obviously the older drugs don't work for everyone (the month I tried Prozac was horrible, and that was after being on Zoloft for years), but it's worth trying.

    Also keep in mind that dosage can make a huge difference. For a long time I was on 50mg of Zoloft and I couldn't tell that much of a difference, and when I switched psychiatrists he increased it to 100mg. Then one day I suddenly realized I hadn't thought about killing myself in weeks, as opposed to several times a day. But last month I tried 150mg and that was just too much.
    If the therapist is really good, they'll be able to teach you how to unravel the knots in your thinking even when you are not at the therapist.
    I've been to several psychiatrists and none of them have said anything particularly helpful to me. I'm not sure if I am expecting too much of them or I just need to go to different ones. I really dislike the one I'm currently seeing, but he's one of the only ones near me and he accepts my insurance and I'm really lazy, so...

    s586cu2r93hr.gif
  • MorninglordMorninglord regular Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Psychiatrists =/= psychologists. They're different degrees, different fields and underpinned by different philosophies of patient treatment. Short hand is Psychiatrists = drugs and Psychologists = thoughts. they over lap a lot and it's likely a psychiatrist will know a few good psychologists he can refer patients to if they need some CBT and of course psychologists do know about psychopharmacological interventions, they just don't prescribe them.

    Ask your psychiatrist about cognitive behavioural therapy in addition to psychopharmacological intervention, to see if they know a good CBT psychologist to refer you to. The two combined are much more effective than either alone.

    Stay away from "Personologists". It's a fancy name for freudian psychotherapy. It is not the dominant paradigm in psychology and they're very much a fringe group now. There's little evidence that freudian psychotherapy works better than placebo in clinical trials for the majority of problems you would want to see one for.

    We learnt about freud as a historical entity and outdated theory, not as a currently accepted theory.

    Morninglord on
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    FeralJulius
  • MorninglordMorninglord regular Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Funny thing, my differential psychology professor, really cool guy, hated freud. With a passion. He thought he came close to completely destroying psychology in its infancy. He despises the whole shebang.
    He had this idea, right, to make up a funny title for his office, because he's a funny guy.

    Long story short I learnt about personologists as a title because he showed me his card which said "personologist" and said he'd found out after he'd made it that it was actually what freudian psychotherapists like to call themselves.

    I laughed and said "You've become the Enemy."

    "Yes exactly! I am the Enemy!"

    :lol:

    Morninglord on
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    MrVyngaard
  • IanatorIanator Delightfully mediocre! Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Antidepressants are not like Tylenol, something you pop when you feel the need. They are a daily (usually) medication that take time (around a month) to build up in one's system, and take effect. Most of the immediate effects people feel are just placebo reactions.

    I say this not to reprimand you, but rather to indicate that, given what you posted, you likely did not take enough to know how they actually impacted your mood.

    If cost is a problem, ask your doctor whether you can get the meds for free, or at a reduced price. When I was on Abilify, I filed some paperwork with Bristol-Myers Squibb, and they sent me free meds. Linky link to their page. Another option is sample packs, which your doctor likely receives.
    Additionally, generic SSRIs are really cheap. Lexapro and Zoloft are less than $10 before insurance. I think the doctors just prescribe the brand stuff because it's new and expensive and possibly because they got a bunch of free stuff with logos. I was also originally prescribed a stupidly expensive one, I think it was Lexapro before it was generic, and there was Lexapro shit all over his office. But I asked him about it and he changed it to just citalopram. Later I switched to Zoloft and that has been great for me, although there are some side effects I could really do without. Obviously the older drugs don't work for everyone (the month I tried Prozac was horrible, and that was after being on Zoloft for years), but it's worth trying.

    Also keep in mind that dosage can make a huge difference. For a long time I was on 50mg of Zoloft and I couldn't tell that much of a difference, and when I switched psychiatrists he increased it to 100mg. Then one day I suddenly realized I hadn't thought about killing myself in weeks, as opposed to several times a day. But last month I tried 150mg and that was just too much.

    My prescription was 30x 10mg of escitalopram - the generic, not brand-name Lexapro - for something like $87 the first time I got it. When I went for a first refill, something had changed with the insurance and the cost actually went up into the $100s. It also started coming in a slide-out card pack rather than a regular pill bottle like the first filling. I remember being rather frustrated that I was "paying more for a fancy package" as far as I could see. Neither was the pharmacist at Walmart very helpful, saying I "shouldn't take it if I don't need to". I probably should've told her off on that note.

    I stopped after the third batch. Not only did I feel caffeinated, whenever I would yawn I'd feel something of a gag reflex coming. I didn't feel any less empty. Between the side effects and the price, it just didn't seem to be worth it anymore. If I have a shot at getting this medication legitimately for less than $10 then this might be the start of me being able to take care of myself... assuming I can afford the doctor's appointment to get a renewed script.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA regular Registered User regular
    I'm no expert on medication, but I'm wondering if I'm on the right kind of medication for my anxiety disorder.

    I did a bit of reading about the different types of medication used to treat anxiety and have learned that they fall into 3 main groups: SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors), SNRIs (Serotonin Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors) and Anxiolytics. So far I've been on Paxil and Zoloft, both SSRIs, and I've never tried anything else. Could it be that I need something other than an SSRI?

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