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Ferguson

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Posts

  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    Delmain wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    that seems like political grandstanding.

    Everything a politician does is political in some way or another, I'm just happy he's standing on the side of rational thought.

    Yeah but you don't want it to be a broken clock type deal. It doesn't have the feel of someone that followed a rational thought process and arrived at that conclusion.

    But I'm also glad that somebody in the government said it out loud and on purpose at least.

    Psn:wazukki
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Delmain wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    that seems like political grandstanding.

    Everything a politician does is political in some way or another, I'm just happy he's standing on the side of rational thought.

    I don't particularly like political figures convicting someone based on well nothing

    wazillaspool32TOGSolidShadowenRchanenBlackbird SR-71C
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The gentle giant framing is problematic in its own right. Big != aggressive

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Delmain wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    that seems like political grandstanding.

    Everything a politician does is political in some way or another, I'm just happy he's standing on the side of rational thought.

    I don't think "it's obvious he was murdered because he was a gentle giant" is really rational. I feel like rationality looks more like skepticism and a willingness to examine the evidence in court, along with a desire to see true justice prevail even if it means dismantling the police department altogether or whatever other measures are needed.

    Automatically convicting the cop based on not much evidence is less than rational. But it plays well if your political base is chanting Fuck the Police and there's a bunch of good reason for them to be doing it.

    Unfortunately on the other side of this subject this leads to actual convictions and lives being destroyed, convicting a cop in public opinion is nothing to that.

    spool32Delmain
  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    The gentle giant framing is problematic in its own right. Big != aggressive

    It's a quote. Someone interviewed on the first day called him that.

    syndalis wrote: »
    Apple is a terrible company.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Delmain wrote: »
    The gentle giant framing is problematic in its own right. Big != aggressive

    It's a quote. Someone interviewed on the first day called him that.

    Yes, and that person's description is problematic.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • Karrde1842Karrde1842 Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Delmain wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    that seems like political grandstanding.

    Everything a politician does is political in some way or another, I'm just happy he's standing on the side of rational thought.

    I don't think "it's obvious he was murdered because he was a gentle giant" is really rational. I feel like rationality looks more like skepticism and a willingness to examine the evidence in court, along with a desire to see true justice prevail even if it means dismantling the police department altogether or whatever other measures are needed.

    Automatically convicting the cop based on not much evidence is less than rational. But it plays well if your political base is chanting Fuck the Police and there's a bunch of good reason for them to be doing it.

    Unfortunately on the other side of this subject this leads to actual convictions and lives being destroyed, convicting a cop in public opinion is nothing to that.

    So that makes it OK?

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Karrde1842 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Delmain wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    that seems like political grandstanding.

    Everything a politician does is political in some way or another, I'm just happy he's standing on the side of rational thought.

    I don't think "it's obvious he was murdered because he was a gentle giant" is really rational. I feel like rationality looks more like skepticism and a willingness to examine the evidence in court, along with a desire to see true justice prevail even if it means dismantling the police department altogether or whatever other measures are needed.

    Automatically convicting the cop based on not much evidence is less than rational. But it plays well if your political base is chanting Fuck the Police and there's a bunch of good reason for them to be doing it.

    Unfortunately on the other side of this subject this leads to actual convictions and lives being destroyed, convicting a cop in public opinion is nothing to that.

    So that makes it OK?

    No, its shitty on both sides. The difference is it's worse when the police do it.

  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    I guess I'd just have to agree to disagree that "Gentle Giant" is some sort of offensive description of people.

    I mean, it's how I'd describe myself. Not because I consciously think that I could be violent, but because two things that kind of define my immediate presence are that I'm very large and that I'm approachable and chill.

    syndalis wrote: »
    Apple is a terrible company.
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  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Chief Mixologist of the Shatterdome Tiki Bar Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Delmain wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    that seems like political grandstanding.

    Everything a politician does is political in some way or another, I'm just happy he's standing on the side of rational thought.

    I don't particularly like political figures convicting someone based on well nothing
    I was kinda curious when this bit of narrative would crop up really. It's kinda fascinating watching the politicians go from zero to sixty only after there was enough public outrage built up and seeing what angles they take. While I personally agree that the cop is a fucking shitstick, it's not a politician's job to inflame the situation by calling him a straight up murderer in an interview.

    TOGSolid on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Delmain wrote: »
    I guess I'd just have to agree to disagree that "Gentle Giant" is some sort of offensive description of people.

    I mean, it's how I'd describe myself. Not because I consciously think that I could be violent, but because two things that kind of define my immediate presence are that I'm very large and that I'm approachable and chill.

    It's cool as a self descriptor (almost anything is), but to use it for someone who's not you is pretty much like any other character judgment based on appearance: sketchy at best.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
    Muffinatron
  • HuuHuu Registered User regular
    Given the actions before and after Cpt Johnsons involvement it feels like the riot scene from Nightwatch should be mandatory reading for all police officers.

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  • Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4to Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    So the two witnesses who saw the cop's actions don't count as evidence?

    I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from the ranks..
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  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    I guess not.

    syndalis wrote: »
    Apple is a terrible company.
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    So the two witnesses who saw the cop's actions don't count as evidence?

    I hope that they will count as evidence when we get to that point.

    ElvenshaewazillaJebusUD
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Chris Hayes is doing his show from the middle of the protest tonight.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    It's inflammatory to call it murder because the murder of a young man by a police officer is itself inflammatory.

    It's not always a politician's job to calm their constituents down, especially when they are justified in their anger.

    DerrickLinespider5
  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    Chris Hayes is doing his show from the middle of the protest tonight.

    I'll give that man a lot of flak


    but that is awesome

    MsAnthropy
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Huu wrote: »
    Given the actions before and after Cpt Johnsons involvement it feels like the riot scene from Nightwatch should be mandatory reading for all police officers.

    So fucking glad that I'm not the only one who thought that.

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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    Might want to elaborate on what Nightwatch you are referring, cause there are many books with that name.

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Night Watch, by Terry Pratchett. I'm presuming.

    Shadowen on
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  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Chief Mixologist of the Shatterdome Tiki Bar Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2014
    It's inflammatory to call it murder because the murder of a young man by a police officer is itself inflammatory.

    It's not always a politician's job to calm their constituents down, especially when they are justified in their anger.

    Of course not. Maria Chappelle-Nadal is a great example of a politician down there fighting with her constituents and is doing a hell of a job of it. Claire McCaskill is also down there on the streets and was working last night to try and get some sort of response to get the police to stop being shitbags. However, this guy isn't doing any of that. He's just throwing in his two cents for some cheap exposure and passing judgement on the situation which doesn't help anyone.

    Case in point, Maria being a political badass: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/missouri-state-senator-calls-governor-a-coward-on-msnbc/

    TOGSolid on
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  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    185px-Night_watch_discworld.jpg

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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Night Watch, by Terry Pratchett. I'm presuming.

    Ah, okay. I was thinking Night Watch by Sergei Lukyanenko and couldn't for the life of me remember a riot scene.

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
    MagellDelmainAstaerethjimb213ArdolshrykemxmarksCogCaptainPeacockBloodySlothDarkewolfe
  • HuuHuu Registered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Might want to elaborate on what Nightwatch you are referring, cause there are many books with that name.

    Well, if there isn't a riot scene that fits the Ferguson story really well you are looking at the wrong one ;)

    Terry Pratchett's book is the one I'm referring to but that has been pointed out already.

  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Night Watch, by Terry Pratchett. I'm presuming.

    Ah, okay. I was thinking Night Watch by Sergei Lukyanenko and couldn't for the life of me remember a riot scene.

    This is also where my head always goes first

    syndalis wrote: »
    Apple is a terrible company.
    CaptainPeacock
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    There seem to be more white faces in the crowd tonight. I don't know if that means anything, but I find it interesting.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Sun just set, so we'll see how this goes tonight. So far so good.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • ArchangleArchangle Registered User regular
    Huu wrote: »
    Given the actions before and after Cpt Johnsons involvement it feels like the riot scene from Nightwatch should be mandatory reading for all police officers.
    Yeah, but then they'd have to start at Guards! Guards! to get all the context, and that means they'd probably have to read the entire Pratchett bibliography, and then...

    ...actually, I take that back. This plan sounds better and better the more I think it through.

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  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    Ummmm... guys? You may want to look at what's going on in the sympathetic protest in New York.

    Basically, the protestors have been collared by the NYPD, let out a few at a time, and then being arrested.

    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    Kettled, you mean?

    CanadianWolverine
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Gosling wrote: »
    Ummmm... guys? You may want to look at what's going on in the sympathetic protest in New York.

    Basically, the protestors have been collared by the NYPD, let out a few at a time, and then being arrested.

    NYPD awful, surprise!

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
    DoodmannHakkekage
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Kettled, you mean?

    Whatever the term is, sure. That.

    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Gosling wrote: »
    Ummmm... guys? You may want to look at what's going on in the sympathetic protest in New York.

    Basically, the protestors have been collared by the NYPD, let out a few at a time, and then being arrested.

    NYPD awful, surprise!

    Ladies and gentlemen.... we may be about to witness....


    AN OPPRESS OFFFFFFFF!!!!

    START YOUR LRADs!

    wazilla on
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  • Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4to Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    So the two witnesses who saw the cop's actions don't count as evidence?

    I hope that they will count as evidence when we get to that point.

    So merely arresting someone on suspicion of murder / police brutality is equivalent to a kangaroo court? Or am I getting your argument wrong?

    Also does anyone have a livestream of the protests tonight?

    I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from the ranks..
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    So the two witnesses who saw the cop's actions don't count as evidence?

    I hope that they will count as evidence when we get to that point.

    So merely arresting someone on suspicion of murder / police brutality is equivalent to a kangaroo court? Or am I getting your argument wrong?

    Also does anyone have a livestream of the protests tonight?

    Hayes is going back live in an hour on MSNBC.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4to Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    Mmm, I'm just concerned that I've seen nothing from tonight

    I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from the ranks..
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/08/14/military-veterans-see-deeply-flawed-police-response-in-ferguson/?hpid=z2
    ...

    “You see the police are standing online with bulletproof vests and rifles pointed at peoples chests,” said Jason Fritz, a former Army officer and an international policing operations analyst. “That’s not controlling the crowd, that’s intimidating them.”

    The protests in Ferguson began in earnest just a day after Brown was killed, when a prayer vigil for the slain teen turned into an evening of looting.

    Scriven King, a 10-year veteran of the U.S. Air Force’s law enforcement component and a SWAT officer, attributed the initial spasm of violence to a lack of leadership and mismanagement of public perception on the Ferguson Police Department’s behalf.

    “The first thing that went wrong was when the police showed up with K-9 units,” Scriven said. “The dogs played on racist imagery…it played the situation up and [the department] wasn’t cognizant of the imagery.”

    King added that, instead of deescalating the situation on the second day, the police responded with armored vehicles and SWAT officers clad in bulletproof vests and military-grade rifles.

    “We went through some pretty bad areas of Afghanistan, but we didn’t wear that much gear,” said Kyle Dykstra, an Army veteran and former security officer for the State Department. Dykstra specifically pointed out the bulletproof armor the officers were wearing around their shoulders, known as “Deltoid” armor.

    “I can’t think of a [protest] situation where the use of M4 [rifles] are merited,” Fritz said. “I don’t see it as a viable tactic in any scenario.”

    ...
    It is nice to see professionals stating that the police were acting like dumb shits.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Mmm, I'm just concerned that I've seen nothing from tonight

    Follow Wesley Lowery or Antonio French. They convey the general tone and tenor. Not as much I guess "action" tonight, but it is pretty awesome (so far).

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    So the two witnesses who saw the cop's actions don't count as evidence?

    I hope that they will count as evidence when we get to that point.

    So merely arresting someone on suspicion of murder / police brutality is equivalent to a kangaroo court? Or am I getting your argument wrong?

    You're missing my point...

    Elected officials should seek to uphold the law, which means they should be advocating arrest of the officer and trial in a court, where that testimony will be heard. They should not be saying "This was obviously a murder" or anything like that. It's irresponsible for anyone to say so, but it's SUPER irresponsible for a government official to do it before a trial has even started. It's honestly counterproductive because it makes getting true accounts from the witnesses harder and makes getting an unbiased jury impaneled really, really hard.

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This discussion has been closed.