.7 Ap ratio on those attacks with lots of base damage. Its going to truck towers. I mean he can always just siege with them and his R to hold your team off it too.
The balance team seems kind of split about whether his minions should be able to hit towers, interestingly.
I can't imagine it'll make it to live, he'll be the safest pusher in the game by far if it does.
Hey guys, remember when Heimer could kill towers with his grenades and could lob them into it from the middle of the lane? That was totally engaging gameplay, wasn't it?
Yeah but it's important to remember the context that happened in. Those were pre-euro lane days and you wouldn't see a jungler half the time. Heimer also could remain protected by turrets doing that, while axir will give up his entire lane presence to harass a tower. The numbers behind what he does might be high but the idea of him doing it is not a problem
Do they disappear faster when near friendly towers as well?
Yes, they last half as long. Its still going to be hilarious since it means that you cannot stop tower damage in a siege. All he has to do is get close enough to W next to the turret (which is outside of turret range!) and he can auto the turret from safety while he sieges.
If anyone gets to play Azir, can you let me know how he plays? I've looked at his kit and it really seems to mesh well with my style - wondering if I need to start playing more to save up the IP.
If anyone gets to play Azir, can you let me know how he plays? I've looked at his kit and it really seems to mesh well with my style - wondering if I need to start playing more to save up the IP.
If anyone gets to play Azir, can you let me know how he plays? I've looked at his kit and it really seems to mesh well with my style - wondering if I need to start playing more to save up the IP.
I'd say he plays like diana
How could a ranged minion-based champion play like a tanky melee assassin?
So what happened with Maoki? I used to jungle him way back when, and I see him picked/banned all the time in top lane in LCS. Is his jungle pretty much the same or did that get helped as well?
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
So what happened with Maoki? I used to jungle him way back when, and I see him picked/banned all the time in top lane in LCS. Is his jungle pretty much the same or did that get helped as well?
It's not his jungle, it's his top lane. He got buffs to his kit that make him too much of a tanky damaging fuck in lane.
So what happened with Maoki? I used to jungle him way back when, and I see him picked/banned all the time in top lane in LCS. Is his jungle pretty much the same or did that get helped as well?
Yes and no. His ganks are a little harder to pull off due to reduced range on most of his abilities, but if you do manage to get on someone you are even stickier than before, and you do more damage too. And your ult is waaaaaay more helpful in a gank than it used to be. The negative is that in top lane you can build RoA but in jungle you can't so he's going to take longer to get to unkillable monster mode like he does from top lane. Still, if you were good with him in the jungle before, I can't imagine you won't like where he is now.
+1
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Amazing has probably been an improvement but I still miss the General sometimes
Ali was wrecked by ranged champions(also Darius). They didn't really need to nerf him.
Now it just makes it harder to support as him because disengage W's don't do as much damage (also because 100% they will bug it so that you can't auto attack anything after a W)
The nerfs weren't for support Ali which is nonexistent. It's because trying to play melee champions against him once he got a sheen consisted of getting headbutt/auto'ed for a huge chunk of your health with no recourse whatsoever. There's no reason he should be able to AA while using his knockback, just like Vayne can't any more because it allowed her to trade silver bolts procs too easily without recourse.
If they want him to support they can buff him elsewhere. He's cancer in top lane ever since Korea discovered him, which is why he's banned every game in high elo.
48% high elo win rate. He is strong against a certain set of melees but gets trucked by a certain set of ranged champions. There are lots of top laners like that (Renekton for one!)
It's not about a broken win rate. It's about how obnoxious the ability to headbutt/sheen proc any champ that can't retaliate was and how awful that was to lane against. Same reason Leblanc got nerfed despite her shit win rate. She was awful to lane against. Sometimes you change champs that are awful to lane against even if they're not having abusing win rates. This was just that. One day they'll figure out the right numbers to keep Alistar in bot lane I guess.
FYI they already confirmed that Azir's sand bros are not going to be able to hit towers. A riot guy on Reddit was saying he thought they were going to keep it, but Zenon himself confirmed on twitter it's not intended.
Shit I just realized how much of a power spike Nashor's tooth will be on Azir. That item alone will give him 90% attack speed, 60 AP, and the on hit. His passive means he gets 1200 gold worth of attack speed just from buying Nashor's.
If anyone gets to play Azir, can you let me know how he plays? I've looked at his kit and it really seems to mesh well with my style - wondering if I need to start playing more to save up the IP.
I'd say he plays like diana
How could a ranged minion-based champion play like a tanky melee assassin?
Mostly because you dash into enemies to finish them off. Thats how I feel anyways. W is short ranged and so is R
Shit I just realized how much of a power spike Nashor's tooth will be on Azir. That item alone will give him 90% attack speed, 60 AP, and the on hit.
On hit effect of Nashor's doesn't seem to work with his minions (they are essentially spells). S
Right, but I'm assuming that his minions get their attack speed from him, which means 90% attack speed from the one item, plus the AP. And the on hit is nice for when his minions are down. Either way, he gets about 4600 gold of stats from a 2900 gold item when considering his CDR->AS passive. Nashor's is already efficient even without the on hit passive and for him it's even more so.
Naturally, Azir has the absolutely slowest base attack speed in the game at 0.556, beating Annie's 0.579; he also has incredibly low gains per level at 1.5%.
Hmm... I am pretty excited about him but just looking at his numbers and his terrible early game I get the impression he is just going to be wrecked on CS maps.
This means that a level 18 Azir with 40% cdr and no attack speed items (so just the 90% bonus from passive) will have an attack speed of 1.2. Ouch. 1.48 attack speed with nashor's tooth.
Naturally, Azir has the absolutely slowest base attack speed in the game at 0.556, beating Annie's 0.579; he also has incredibly low gains per level at 1.5%.
Hmm... I am pretty excited about him but just looking at his numbers and his terrible early game I get the impression he is just going to be wrecked on CS maps.
Wow, that's crazy low. If I've done the math right even with Nashor's he'll only have ~1.35 attack speed at level 18.
I'm kind of wondering if Nashor's is a trap item on him, now.
Unless people determine that AS is just not good on him at all(which I doubt since most of his damage is going to come from the sand dude's AAs I think, Nashor's will be core. Even if his AS growth is shit, getting 90% attack speed, 20% CDR, and 60 AP on an item for 2900 gold is going to be too good to pass up.
I keep reading the thread title to the tune of "One Night in Bangkok".
If Azir is a caster, does AA speed really matter on him? I don't play many AP champions, but don't they get their stuff done through using abilities? Or does his AA speed impact the speed at which his sand minions will do their thing?
Unless people determine that AS is just not good on him at all(which I doubt since most of his damage is going to come from the sand dude's AAs I think, Nashor's will be core. Even if his AS growth is shit, getting 90% attack speed, 20% CDR, and 60 AP on an item for 2900 gold is going to be too good to pass up.
Unless of course they timed his power with nashor's tooth being built first in mind and lowered his numbers accordingly.
I keep reading the thread title to the tune of "One Night in Bangkok".
If Azir is a caster, does AA speed really matter on him? I don't play many AP champions, but don't they get their stuff done through using abilities? Or does his AA speed impact the speed at which his sand minions will do their thing?
His W works as a complete replacement for his autoatttacks and its power is based on his AP and attack speed.
Unless people determine that AS is just not good on him at all(which I doubt since most of his damage is going to come from the sand dude's AAs I think, Nashor's will be core. Even if his AS growth is shit, getting 90% attack speed, 20% CDR, and 60 AP on an item for 2900 gold is going to be too good to pass up.
Put it this way; you're essentially paying 1000+ gold for your minions to attack a quarter of a second faster.
Naturally, Azir has the absolutely slowest base attack speed in the game at 0.556, beating Annie's 0.579; he also has incredibly low gains per level at 1.5%.
Hmm... I am pretty excited about him but just looking at his numbers and his terrible early game I get the impression he is just going to be wrecked on CS maps.
Wow, that's crazy low. If I've done the math right even with Nashor's he'll only have ~1.35 attack speed at level 18.
I'm kind of wondering if Nashor's is a trap item on him, now.
With those numbers, 1.5 * 17 = 25.5%
Add another 50% for nashor's, plus 80% (20 from nashors, 20 from whatever else because obviously he'll have it at level 18) for CDR, and that's 130%. 130 + 25.5 = 155.5%
2.555 * .556 = 1.42 final attack speed: around 3 attacks per 2 seconds, but considering each of his autoattacks is essentially going to be a spell, that seems reasonable.
If he didn't have nashor's tooth (but still had 40% CDR), he's have just 25.5 + 80 = 105.5, for a total attack speed of 2.055 * .556 = 1.14, which is 20% slower.
So if, for 3000 gold you can get a total of 20% CDR, 60 AP, 5% AP ratio per second, and then another 25% of your current damage on top of that, then you've beaten out nashor's tooth. At least, I think that's roughly how the math works out.
Nashor's wouldn't be a trap item on him ever, since he scales with every stat on it very efficiently. A trap item is one that you would THINK would be good but isn't actually, and usually that has to do with you trading away stats for incomparables, like thornmail or runaans. You're not trading anything as Azir by buying nashor's. If nashor's tooth is bad on azir, then more than likely everything would be.
Has anyone else been having any issues with spectator mode?
I have no issues if i'm actually playing in a game, but if I try to spectate it lags terribly (10-15 seconds) every minute or two. Sometimes it even outright loses the connection to the spectator server and kicks me out of the game completely.
Derp. For some reason I typed his passive at 90% instead of 80% and just kept using that. Also, did 1.5% X18 since I thought level 1 was base speed + level scaling X 1.
Is his auto attack completely removed as long as he has soldiers in reach on the field? If so that means the nashors passive proc would go to waste, and also means lichbane and wits end wouldn't be used either.
Is his auto attack completely removed as long as he has soldiers in reach on the field? If so that means the nashors passive proc would go to waste, and also means lichbane and wits end wouldn't be used either.
That seems to be one of the things about Azir that's glossed over. It seems that Azir will always defer to his soldiers even if he himself is in range to attack. In essense, he loses his autoattack as long as his soldier can attack.
edit: Reminds me, stonewall did an experiment with jungling with AD with Azir and failed horribly. Would make sense that any AD he built would go to waste the moment a soldier is in attack range of his target.
Sounds like, as with Gnar, this'll be a champion with some pretty well defined strengths, weaknesses, and counterplay. We've only had 4 champions this year but 3 of them* seem to be pretty great additions to the game.
*Vel'Koz isn't bad, he just is too similar to Lux to me. Doesn't really seem to fit a unique niche like the other 2014 champions.
Is his auto attack completely removed as long as he has soldiers in reach on the field? If so that means the nashors passive proc would go to waste, and also means lichbane and wits end wouldn't be used either.
Yea but his soldiers have .7 AP ratio on top of 10xlvl damage so it's not like you do less damage with them.
At 40% cdr if you can keep both in range of your auto attack target you will do 340 + 1.4 AP per attack and attack as fast as your AS. Plus your damage from other abilities it's going to be pretty hefty.
Obviously what Azir needs is a skillshot that hits everything in a line for damage, but if it hits a minion it explodes and stuns everything around it.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Unless people determine that AS is just not good on him at all(which I doubt since most of his damage is going to come from the sand dude's AAs I think, Nashor's will be core. Even if his AS growth is shit, getting 90% attack speed, 20% CDR, and 60 AP on an item for 2900 gold is going to be too good to pass up.
Put it this way; you're essentially paying 1000+ gold for your minions to attack a quarter of a second faster.
I don't think that's going to be worth it.
Alternatively, his minion auto attacks do 170+0.7AP per hit, so I think having that happen as fast as possible will be a high priority. Everything about Nashor's is good for him. He wants AP, he wants CDR, and he wants attack speed. He builds that and Athene's and he no longer has mana problems, has max CDR including 80% free attack speed from it, and a decent amount of AP.
Yes, his attack speed is crap, because his minion AAs are a potential 1200 range spell with a 0.7 AP ratio, and he can have 3 of them out at a time.
We'll see, but I just don't buy Nashor's being bad on him just because he has bad AS growth. If he had great AS growth he'd probably be OP as shit so I'm sure that was considered.
Is his auto attack completely removed as long as he has soldiers in reach on the field? If so that means the nashors passive proc would go to waste, and also means lichbane and wits end wouldn't be used either.
Yea but his soldiers have .7 AP ratio on top of 10xlvl damage so it's not like you do less damage with them.
At 40% cdr if you can keep both in range of your auto attack target you will do 340 + 1.4 AP per attack and attack as fast as your AS. Plus your damage from other abilities it's going to be pretty hefty.
The issue is that lichbane and other procs aren't worth building because you generally shouldn't ever have the opportunity to use them. If, for example on Dominion, you wanted to try building him as an AP bruiser and take more advantage of his shield and full duration of soldiers, items like wits would be a trap since you wouldn't proc the on hit or the shred.
Posts
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1509954453/214364839
my team was 5v4 and we pretty much played the entire game behind, but won it because the other team had no idea how to close
Yeah but it's important to remember the context that happened in. Those were pre-euro lane days and you wouldn't see a jungler half the time. Heimer also could remain protected by turrets doing that, while axir will give up his entire lane presence to harass a tower. The numbers behind what he does might be high but the idea of him doing it is not a problem
Yes, they last half as long. Its still going to be hilarious since it means that you cannot stop tower damage in a siege. All he has to do is get close enough to W next to the turret (which is outside of turret range!) and he can auto the turret from safety while he sieges.
I'd say he plays like diana
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Yes and no. His ganks are a little harder to pull off due to reduced range on most of his abilities, but if you do manage to get on someone you are even stickier than before, and you do more damage too. And your ult is waaaaaay more helpful in a gank than it used to be. The negative is that in top lane you can build RoA but in jungle you can't so he's going to take longer to get to unkillable monster mode like he does from top lane. Still, if you were good with him in the jungle before, I can't imagine you won't like where he is now.
http://www.team-dignitas.org/articles/blogs/League-of-Legends/5791/Interview-with-coL-Bubbadubs-wife-Stephanie/
Plz coL make it through relegations
It's not about a broken win rate. It's about how obnoxious the ability to headbutt/sheen proc any champ that can't retaliate was and how awful that was to lane against. Same reason Leblanc got nerfed despite her shit win rate. She was awful to lane against. Sometimes you change champs that are awful to lane against even if they're not having abusing win rates. This was just that. One day they'll figure out the right numbers to keep Alistar in bot lane I guess.
Mostly because you dash into enemies to finish them off. Thats how I feel anyways. W is short ranged and so is R
On hit effect of Nashor's doesn't seem to work with his minions (they are essentially spells). S
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Hmm... I am pretty excited about him but just looking at his numbers and his terrible early game I get the impression he is just going to be wrecked on CS maps.
This means that a level 18 Azir with 40% cdr and no attack speed items (so just the 90% bonus from passive) will have an attack speed of 1.2. Ouch. 1.48 attack speed with nashor's tooth.
Wow, that's crazy low. If I've done the math right even with Nashor's he'll only have ~1.35 attack speed at level 18.
I'm kind of wondering if Nashor's is a trap item on him, now.
If Azir is a caster, does AA speed really matter on him? I don't play many AP champions, but don't they get their stuff done through using abilities? Or does his AA speed impact the speed at which his sand minions will do their thing?
Unless of course they timed his power with nashor's tooth being built first in mind and lowered his numbers accordingly.
His W works as a complete replacement for his autoatttacks and its power is based on his AP and attack speed.
Put it this way; you're essentially paying 1000+ gold for your minions to attack a quarter of a second faster.
I don't think that's going to be worth it.
With those numbers, 1.5 * 17 = 25.5%
Add another 50% for nashor's, plus 80% (20 from nashors, 20 from whatever else because obviously he'll have it at level 18) for CDR, and that's 130%. 130 + 25.5 = 155.5%
2.555 * .556 = 1.42 final attack speed: around 3 attacks per 2 seconds, but considering each of his autoattacks is essentially going to be a spell, that seems reasonable.
If he didn't have nashor's tooth (but still had 40% CDR), he's have just 25.5 + 80 = 105.5, for a total attack speed of 2.055 * .556 = 1.14, which is 20% slower.
So if, for 3000 gold you can get a total of 20% CDR, 60 AP, 5% AP ratio per second, and then another 25% of your current damage on top of that, then you've beaten out nashor's tooth. At least, I think that's roughly how the math works out.
Nashor's wouldn't be a trap item on him ever, since he scales with every stat on it very efficiently. A trap item is one that you would THINK would be good but isn't actually, and usually that has to do with you trading away stats for incomparables, like thornmail or runaans. You're not trading anything as Azir by buying nashor's. If nashor's tooth is bad on azir, then more than likely everything would be.
I have no issues if i'm actually playing in a game, but if I try to spectate it lags terribly (10-15 seconds) every minute or two. Sometimes it even outright loses the connection to the spectator server and kicks me out of the game completely.
Edit: Apparently it's an evil plot by Geth?
oh no!
a rengar gank!
That seems to be one of the things about Azir that's glossed over. It seems that Azir will always defer to his soldiers even if he himself is in range to attack. In essense, he loses his autoattack as long as his soldier can attack.
edit: Reminds me, stonewall did an experiment with jungling with AD with Azir and failed horribly. Would make sense that any AD he built would go to waste the moment a soldier is in attack range of his target.
I think that's safe to assume. Hmm...
On the CS maps I'll probably go for BFT > codex > guise > rylai > liandrie
*Vel'Koz isn't bad, he just is too similar to Lux to me. Doesn't really seem to fit a unique niche like the other 2014 champions.
Yea but his soldiers have .7 AP ratio on top of 10xlvl damage so it's not like you do less damage with them.
At 40% cdr if you can keep both in range of your auto attack target you will do 340 + 1.4 AP per attack and attack as fast as your AS. Plus your damage from other abilities it's going to be pretty hefty.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Alternatively, his minion auto attacks do 170+0.7AP per hit, so I think having that happen as fast as possible will be a high priority. Everything about Nashor's is good for him. He wants AP, he wants CDR, and he wants attack speed. He builds that and Athene's and he no longer has mana problems, has max CDR including 80% free attack speed from it, and a decent amount of AP.
Yes, his attack speed is crap, because his minion AAs are a potential 1200 range spell with a 0.7 AP ratio, and he can have 3 of them out at a time.
We'll see, but I just don't buy Nashor's being bad on him just because he has bad AS growth. If he had great AS growth he'd probably be OP as shit so I'm sure that was considered.
The issue is that lichbane and other procs aren't worth building because you generally shouldn't ever have the opportunity to use them. If, for example on Dominion, you wanted to try building him as an AP bruiser and take more advantage of his shield and full duration of soldiers, items like wits would be a trap since you wouldn't proc the on hit or the shred.