Is his auto attack completely removed as long as he has soldiers in reach on the field? If so that means the nashors passive proc would go to waste, and also means lichbane and wits end wouldn't be used either.
Yea but his soldiers have .7 AP ratio on top of 10xlvl damage so it's not like you do less damage with them.
At 40% cdr if you can keep both in range of your auto attack target you will do 340 + 1.4 AP per attack and attack as fast as your AS. Plus your damage from other abilities it's going to be pretty hefty.
It's actually even more than that. He can only store 2 soldiers at a time, but he has no limit on how many he can have out, which means with 40% CDR you can have 3 of them out at a time.
And yeah, the passive on Nashor's will be wasted on him, but it's not needed to be efficient even without his passive factored in.
I definitely agree that on hits like Wit's end or Lichbane are pointless to build on him. But not Nashor's.
Finally got out of bronze today. I hope I never go back. Went the full 5 games in both promo series for silver. But crushed with Kat for my last two wins today.
Is his auto attack completely removed as long as he has soldiers in reach on the field? If so that means the nashors passive proc would go to waste, and also means lichbane and wits end wouldn't be used either.
Yea but his soldiers have .7 AP ratio on top of 10xlvl damage so it's not like you do less damage with them.
At 40% cdr if you can keep both in range of your auto attack target you will do 340 + 1.4 AP per attack and attack as fast as your AS. Plus your damage from other abilities it's going to be pretty hefty.
The issue is that lichbane and other procs aren't worth building because you generally shouldn't ever have the opportunity to use them. If, for example on Dominion, you wanted to try building him as an AP bruiser and take more advantage of his shield and full duration of soldiers, items like wits would be a trap since you wouldn't proc the on hit or the shred.
So go Pd deathcap void etc? Just full ap with some standar as items since the onhit will (maybe) be wasted.
Grass Grows,
Birds Fly,
'til there's Fire in the Sky...
Unless people determine that AS is just not good on him at all(which I doubt since most of his damage is going to come from the sand dude's AAs I think, Nashor's will be core. Even if his AS growth is shit, getting 90% attack speed, 20% CDR, and 60 AP on an item for 2900 gold is going to be too good to pass up.
Put it this way; you're essentially paying 1000+ gold for your minions to attack a quarter of a second faster.
I don't think that's going to be worth it.
Alternatively, his minion auto attacks do 170+0.7AP per hit, so I think having that happen as fast as possible will be a high priority. Everything about Nashor's is good for him. He wants AP, he wants CDR, and he wants attack speed. He builds that and Athene's and he no longer has mana problems, has max CDR including 80% free attack speed from it, and a decent amount of AP.
Yes, his attack speed is crap, because his minion AAs are a potential 1200 range spell with a 0.7 AP ratio, and he can have 3 of them out at a time.
We'll see, but I just don't buy Nashor's being bad on him just because he has bad AS growth. If he had great AS growth he'd probably be OP as shit so I'm sure that was considered.
The other hand is, basically, how effective the last 40% AS is from Nashors if the substitute is another 20% CDR item. Since you don't get the on hit you could, instead of buying Nashors, buy Moreonomicon and get 20 more AP, and 10 MP5, and the grevious wounds for cheaper. Or you could get Wota/twin shadows and then get DFG for a third CDR item.
Edit: the point is that due to having so many other AP ratios getting AS outside of your CDR passive might be a trap.
Also morello is probably better on this guy than chalice, since he has such good range/poke he probably doesn't need the MR as opposed to the "more damage, cheaper"
If you sub out Nashor's you're subbing out 90% attack speed though. The 50 from the item and then the 40 from the passive. Like I said earlier, between the AP, AS, and CDR you're getting 4600 gold of stats from Nashor's. The only way I wouldn't buy it is if we collectively discover upon playing him that attack speed itself is just not good on him whatsoever because maybe he only gets off 1 AA per soldier in practice or whatever. Then you wouldn't get it. But I don't see it. The minions have pretty good AA range with their little poke so I think his build is going to look like Nashor's->Athene's->build to preference, from tanky AP(Rylai's slow would work right?), void staff for pen, or just needlessly large rod items if you're safe enough already.
I'm going to be interested to see if I can make him work out of the jungle, maybe with some CDR runes so all I need is spectral and nashor's to max CDR.
In other news, watching this replay of SKT T1 versus Samsung White tiebreaker match, Samsung White is just abusing SKT so hard these first two games. Dominating 30 minute victory with an 18k gold lead the first game, and now they're up 11k at 30 in game 2.
DanDy is just dominating these games, Bengi is just getting destroyed from the jungle. And I don't like SKT's chances of even getting back to worlds if they lose this, because maybe the only other jungler in the world better than DanDy is KaKao, and SKT would probably have to go through him and KT Arrows if they have to go to the 3rd place tourney.
If you sub out nashors you sub out 50% AS because you sub it for something with the same amount of CDR that is cheaper by nearly the cost of a blasting wand.
For 2920 gold you can buy Nashors tooth for 90% AS and 60 AP. For 3060 gold you can buy Morellonomicon and a blasting wand for 40% AS and 120 AP
It is not simple to say that the AS on NT is good. Morellonomicon has 4173 gold worth of stats on it for 2200 gold. NT has 4600 for 2920. You're paying 720 gold for 427 gold worth of stats and losing the morello passive. By raw gold efficiency NT is a trap so clearly it's not an obvious choice.
Frankly I think that the ideal build will be utility masteries for 10% CDR. -> morello -> DFG/wota/twin shadows -> rylai -> void
Or for offensive masteries -> morello -> CDR boots -> rylai-> void.
That last 50% AS isn't worth the AP for my potentially 3.5 AP ratio combo (two soldier autos, two soldier Qs, e, r).
Wow. He has an unlisted 80% damage penalty for additional soldiers hitting the same target as the first. This guy is going to be garbage on dominion.
Doesn't matter if it's listed or not. We know the tooltip wouldn't match the actual damage anyway :bz
BUGFIX: Updated the tooltip to accurately reflect Azir's soldiers' damage. We promise this is how much damage they've already been doing. Definitely not a nerf. 170+0.7AP -> 1 + 0.01AP
If you sub out nashors you sub out 50% AS because you sub it for something with the same amount of CDR that is cheaper by nearly the cost of a blasting wand.
For 2920 gold you can buy Nashors tooth for 90% AS and 60 AP. For 3060 gold you can buy Morellonomicon and a blasting wand for 40% AS and 120 AP
It is not simple to say that the AS on NT is good. Morellonomicon has 4173 gold worth of stats on it for 2200 gold. NT has 4600 for 2920. You're paying 720 gold for 427 gold worth of stats and losing the morello passive. By raw gold efficiency NT is a trap so clearly it's not an obvious choice.
Frankly I think that the ideal build will be utility masteries for 10% CDR. -> morello -> DFG/wota/twin shadows -> rylai -> void
Or for offensive masteries -> morello -> CDR boots -> rylai-> void.
That last 50% AS isn't worth the AP for my potentially 3.5 AP ratio combo (two soldier autos, two soldier Qs, e, r).
I was derping out on the math originally. You're right that it's more 50% attack speed versus the additional AP and other passives on other CDR items.
Now that Talith has posted the undocumented fact that his additional soldiers don't do extra damage on targets though, I think I'm going to stick to thinking Nashor's for the extra AS will be better than more AP though. His combo isn't going to be all that brutal now that I know there's no way to just annihilate somebody with 2 or 3 soldiers hitting them at the same time.
I guess we'll see how it shakes out. Based on seeing how mana hungry he is on PBE though I still think Athene's will be better than Morello though, unless you need the Morello passive for somebody.
I understand they have to balance around his absolute best cast scenario which is 3 soldiers out AoE attacking a full team but he just looks really sad at the moment.
I understand they have to balance around his absolute best cast scenario which is 3 soldiers out AoE attacking a full team but he just looks really sad at the moment.
Sounds to me like they should just have scaling then. -30% damage on the second trooper and -70% on the 3rd.
1) Azir currently murders towers. There is a subtle price he pays for this (soldiers time out much more quickly under enemy turrets), but that price is not high enough. Tomorrow we'll try a version of Azir where the soldiers cannot attack turrets at all but instead you can spawn a soldier onto a turret to deal a chunk of damage to the turret. You have to cast your W onto the turret, that is to say walk into 400 unit range of the turret, which we hope will be risky enough for the pay-off. The idea is that if left alone, Azir will push like the crazy bird he is, but enemies should be able to punish Azir for walking this close to a tower if they stick around for the defense.
2) Azir currently suffers from a weak laning phase and then enjoys a crazy take-off point mid to late game (usually around the time he hits 40% CDR). We're happy with that curve overall, but we're looking to smooth it out a little. Coming soon[tm] (probably day after tomorrow?) we'll buff Azir's early lane (Q slow amount? Q base damage? W stab base damage?) but reduce the CDR->AS passive somewhat--at least that's our thinking after half a day on PBE. We'll do some analysis tomorrow and make the call.
3) While I've not seen this on PBE, I have seen Azir get ahead and shut down his lane opponent in internal playtests. The amount to which he removes his opponent's ability to play the game in the laning phase is worrying. If we see people learn Azir and get to this stage on PBE, we will assess if the soldier attack range (currently 400) is appropriate. If not, we'll bring it down.
0
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
So Nidalee is kind of broken at top?
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
So apparently one of the bugs on the PBE is that jungle camps are spawning in completely random locations and don't draw turret aggro either. There is one video of a game ending because the wolf camp back door killed the nexus.
So apparently one of the bugs on the PBE is that jungle camps are spawning in completely random locations and don't draw turret aggro either. There is one video of a game ending because the wolf camp back door killed the nexus.
So apparently one of the bugs on the PBE is that jungle camps are spawning in completely random locations and don't draw turret aggro either. There is one video of a game ending because the wolf camp back door killed the nexus.
So apparently one of the bugs on the PBE is that jungle camps are spawning in completely random locations and don't draw turret aggro either. There is one video of a game ending because the wolf camp back door killed the nexus.
Doom bots?
Doom jungle.
New co-op competitive Horde mode where your team has to keep the jungle from killing your base while trying to screw with the enemy team to make the jungle kill theirs.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Wow. He has an unlisted 80% damage penalty for additional soldiers hitting the same target as the first. This guy is going to be garbage on dominion.
i mean it's a zenon the stoic champ
it's not his release state you need to worry about, it's the buffs he gets two months later
0
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
4 wins in a row in the jungle and the next two games someone decides they want to jungle Amumu so I go top two games. I lose two games. Nidalee is straight up bullshit.
No more letting other people jungle.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Nidalee is very meam to melees. You probably want MR. Dorans Shield should handle her autos easy, really.
Her sustain eats her mana hard, make her use it. Dont eat hunt marks, because thats free cougar combos.
She cant aoe the creep lime unless you back of because she needs to be cougar and thus melee. Pressure her. If you have ranged poke, her tower farm will suck without cougar,
I can beat her with Riven at least. First two levels are very rough, next three are kind of rough but after 6 she better watch out. Try to catch her with your shit after she turns human.
It helps that every single Nidalee I meet on the enemy team in ranked is some nitwit who never ever plays with his team or wards the jungle or anything. Just 100% split pushing alone all game.
Nidalee is very meam to melees. You probably want MR. Dorans Shield should handle her autos easy, really.
Her sustain eats her mana hard, make her use it. Dont eat hunt marks, because thats free cougar combos.
She cant aoe the creep lime unless you back of because she needs to be cougar and thus melee. Pressure her. If you have ranged poke, her tower farm will suck without cougar,
I couldn't do a lot as early Renekton and eventually she just took a massive lead on me. It was really unfun.
The second loss was me as Riven against Cho'Gath. I should have bought early MR so that was my fault.
Would have been nice if the jungle Amumu could actually do any good ganks in either game though.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Maybe the only reason left... but let's not forget about the fan fiction that used to find it's way into this thread and the original need for the bottle.
Posts
It's actually even more than that. He can only store 2 soldiers at a time, but he has no limit on how many he can have out, which means with 40% CDR you can have 3 of them out at a time.
And yeah, the passive on Nashor's will be wasted on him, but it's not needed to be efficient even without his passive factored in.
I definitely agree that on hits like Wit's end or Lichbane are pointless to build on him. But not Nashor's.
So go Pd deathcap void etc? Just full ap with some standar as items since the onhit will (maybe) be wasted.
Birds Fly,
'til there's Fire in the Sky...
The other hand is, basically, how effective the last 40% AS is from Nashors if the substitute is another 20% CDR item. Since you don't get the on hit you could, instead of buying Nashors, buy Moreonomicon and get 20 more AP, and 10 MP5, and the grevious wounds for cheaper. Or you could get Wota/twin shadows and then get DFG for a third CDR item.
Edit: the point is that due to having so many other AP ratios getting AS outside of your CDR passive might be a trap.
Also morello is probably better on this guy than chalice, since he has such good range/poke he probably doesn't need the MR as opposed to the "more damage, cheaper"
I'm going to be interested to see if I can make him work out of the jungle, maybe with some CDR runes so all I need is spectral and nashor's to max CDR.
DanDy is just dominating these games, Bengi is just getting destroyed from the jungle. And I don't like SKT's chances of even getting back to worlds if they lose this, because maybe the only other jungler in the world better than DanDy is KaKao, and SKT would probably have to go through him and KT Arrows if they have to go to the 3rd place tourney.
For 2920 gold you can buy Nashors tooth for 90% AS and 60 AP. For 3060 gold you can buy Morellonomicon and a blasting wand for 40% AS and 120 AP
It is not simple to say that the AS on NT is good. Morellonomicon has 4173 gold worth of stats on it for 2200 gold. NT has 4600 for 2920. You're paying 720 gold for 427 gold worth of stats and losing the morello passive. By raw gold efficiency NT is a trap so clearly it's not an obvious choice.
Frankly I think that the ideal build will be utility masteries for 10% CDR. -> morello -> DFG/wota/twin shadows -> rylai -> void
Or for offensive masteries -> morello -> CDR boots -> rylai-> void.
That last 50% AS isn't worth the AP for my potentially 3.5 AP ratio combo (two soldier autos, two soldier Qs, e, r).
Doesn't matter if it's listed or not. We know the tooltip wouldn't match the actual damage anyway :bz
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
BUGFIX: Updated the tooltip to accurately reflect Azir's soldiers' damage. We promise this is how much damage they've already been doing. Definitely not a nerf.
170+0.7AP -> 1 + 0.01AP
I was derping out on the math originally. You're right that it's more 50% attack speed versus the additional AP and other passives on other CDR items.
Now that Talith has posted the undocumented fact that his additional soldiers don't do extra damage on targets though, I think I'm going to stick to thinking Nashor's for the extra AS will be better than more AP though. His combo isn't going to be all that brutal now that I know there's no way to just annihilate somebody with 2 or 3 soldiers hitting them at the same time.
I guess we'll see how it shakes out. Based on seeing how mana hungry he is on PBE though I still think Athene's will be better than Morello though, unless you need the Morello passive for somebody.
Is that for his Q as well, or just for his minion's auto-attacks?
Because with three minions and 40% CDR his Q has a 180% AP ratio on a 4 second cooldown.
Sounds to me like they should just have scaling then. -30% damage on the second trooper and -70% on the 3rd.
this is me when I say "top pref pls" and then first pick instalocks Nasus
I am pretty sure that's a picture of Warwick ulting that poor boy.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
new custom game mode imo
Doom bots?
Doom jungle.
New co-op competitive Horde mode where your team has to keep the jungle from killing your base while trying to screw with the enemy team to make the jungle kill theirs.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
soon to be followed by
Doom Bots : Return of the Jungler
Baron & Dragon are still in their normal spots, though, and if you kill them they go assault the enemy team for a while.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
i mean it's a zenon the stoic champ
it's not his release state you need to worry about, it's the buffs he gets two months later
No more letting other people jungle.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Her sustain eats her mana hard, make her use it. Dont eat hunt marks, because thats free cougar combos.
She cant aoe the creep lime unless you back of because she needs to be cougar and thus melee. Pressure her. If you have ranged poke, her tower farm will suck without cougar,
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
I can beat her with Riven at least. First two levels are very rough, next three are kind of rough but after 6 she better watch out. Try to catch her with your shit after she turns human.
It helps that every single Nidalee I meet on the enemy team in ranked is some nitwit who never ever plays with his team or wards the jungle or anything. Just 100% split pushing alone all game.
I couldn't do a lot as early Renekton and eventually she just took a massive lead on me. It was really unfun.
The second loss was me as Riven against Cho'Gath. I should have bought early MR so that was my fault.
Would have been nice if the jungle Amumu could actually do any good ganks in either game though.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
That is point blank the only reason it exists.
Maybe the only reason left... but let's not forget about the fan fiction that used to find it's way into this thread and the original need for the bottle.
PSN: BrightWing13 FFX|V:ARR Bright Asuna
I'm having trouble deciding whether this was a high or low point.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.