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MOTW 8-20-14: All the angels have fallen, and we devils are all that remain.

TexiKenTexiKen Dammit!That fish really got me!Registered User regular
New Avengers #23, watch it suckerpunch you out of the blue:
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    noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    I've only been following NA through the scans that get shown here, but;

    God. Damn.

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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    RE: New Avengers. The best/worst part.
    The Illuminati chose to let both universes die and do jack shit to stop it, just saying their goodbyes to their family, or their loved ones, or to alcohol, and most of them getting BTFO emotionally. Hank especially got a beatdown, by his younger self.

    Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.

    So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.

    vagrant_winds on
    // Steam: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    RE: New Avengers. The best/worst part.
    The Illuminati chose to let both universes die and do jack shit to stop it, just saying their goodbyes to their family, or their loved ones, or to alcohol, and most of them getting BTFO emotionally. Hank especially got a beatdown, by his younger self.

    Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.

    So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.

    They might have
    just been willing to let someone else on the other side of the Incursion destroy Earth-616, but yeah... it didn't look like there was anything to imply that the other Earth was even aware of the Incursion or planning to counter it.

    I mean, I'd almost want to let both universes go out of cosmic spite, saying 'fuck you for making me choose, Existence, go fuck yourself, I'm not playing'.

    I really thought that the Great Society was going to wind up using the Illuminati's bomb to destroy their own world, a kind of macrocosm of their heroic nature - like, Superman would take a bullet even for Lex Luthor, so Superman-Earth would take a bullet for Lex Luth-Earth. Obviously the Illuminati didn't go there, but I wondered if one of them might consider it - sort've handing off the quest to stop the Incursions to whatever other Earth was showing up rather than go on destroying worlds to save their own.

    H9f4bVe.png
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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    RE: New Avengers. The best/worst part.
    The Illuminati chose to let both universes die and do jack shit to stop it, just saying their goodbyes to their family, or their loved ones, or to alcohol, and most of them getting BTFO emotionally. Hank especially got a beatdown, by his younger self.

    Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.

    So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.

    They might have
    just been willing to let someone else on the other side of the Incursion destroy Earth-616, but yeah... it didn't look like there was anything to imply that the other Earth was even aware of the Incursion or planning to counter it.

    I mean, I'd almost want to let both universes go out of cosmic spite, saying 'fuck you for making me choose, Existence, go fuck yourself, I'm not playing'.

    I really thought that the Great Society was going to wind up using the Illuminati's bomb to destroy their own world, a kind of macrocosm of their heroic nature - like, Superman would take a bullet even for Lex Luthor, so Superman-Earth would take a bullet for Lex Luth-Earth. Obviously the Illuminati didn't go there, but I wondered if one of them might consider it - sort've handing off the quest to stop the Incursions to whatever other Earth was showing up rather than go on destroying worlds to save their own.
    Me, I rooted for the Great Society to win (and find a better way).

    They were shining golden heroes.

    Then they got Cuthulu'd.

    // Steam: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    RE: New Avengers. The best/worst part.
    The Illuminati chose to let both universes die and do jack shit to stop it, just saying their goodbyes to their family, or their loved ones, or to alcohol, and most of them getting BTFO emotionally. Hank especially got a beatdown, by his younger self.

    Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.

    So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.

    They might have
    just been willing to let someone else on the other side of the Incursion destroy Earth-616, but yeah... it didn't look like there was anything to imply that the other Earth was even aware of the Incursion or planning to counter it.

    I mean, I'd almost want to let both universes go out of cosmic spite, saying 'fuck you for making me choose, Existence, go fuck yourself, I'm not playing'.

    I really thought that the Great Society was going to wind up using the Illuminati's bomb to destroy their own world, a kind of macrocosm of their heroic nature - like, Superman would take a bullet even for Lex Luthor, so Superman-Earth would take a bullet for Lex Luth-Earth. Obviously the Illuminati didn't go there, but I wondered if one of them might consider it - sort've handing off the quest to stop the Incursions to whatever other Earth was showing up rather than go on destroying worlds to save their own.
    Me, I rooted for the Great Society to win (and find a better way).

    They were shining golden heroes.

    Then they got Cuthulu'd.

    I did hate
    that the Great Society died horribly.

    I hate it when Justice League homages die horribly. It happens almost every time - in Authority, Invincible... yeah, I get it, your characters could murder Superman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern if they had the chance.

    Yay them...?

    H9f4bVe.png
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    RE: New Avengers. The best/worst part.
    The Illuminati chose to let both universes die and do jack shit to stop it, just saying their goodbyes to their family, or their loved ones, or to alcohol, and most of them getting BTFO emotionally. Hank especially got a beatdown, by his younger self.

    Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.

    So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.

    They might have
    just been willing to let someone else on the other side of the Incursion destroy Earth-616, but yeah... it didn't look like there was anything to imply that the other Earth was even aware of the Incursion or planning to counter it.

    I mean, I'd almost want to let both universes go out of cosmic spite, saying 'fuck you for making me choose, Existence, go fuck yourself, I'm not playing'.

    I really thought that the Great Society was going to wind up using the Illuminati's bomb to destroy their own world, a kind of macrocosm of their heroic nature - like, Superman would take a bullet even for Lex Luthor, so Superman-Earth would take a bullet for Lex Luth-Earth. Obviously the Illuminati didn't go there, but I wondered if one of them might consider it - sort've handing off the quest to stop the Incursions to whatever other Earth was showing up rather than go on destroying worlds to save their own.
    Me, I rooted for the Great Society to win (and find a better way).

    They were shining golden heroes.

    Then they got Cuthulu'd.

    I did hate
    that the Great Society died horribly.

    I hate it when Justice League homages die horribly. It happens almost every time - in Authority, Invincible... yeah, I get it, your characters could murder Superman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern if they had the chance.

    Yay them...?
    That uh that was not really what I got out of New Avengers.

    Like, at all.

    Quire.jpg
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    manjimanji Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    NA:
    i don't get thanos' angle. traditionally doesn't he want all life destroyed?

    EDIT: never mind, question answered in the marvel thread

    side point: i fuckin' love kev walker!

    side point 2: at some point i'm going to have to buy hickman's whole avengers/ new avengers run and it's going to cost an absolute fortune

    manji on
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    RE: New Avengers. The best/worst part.
    The Illuminati chose to let both universes die and do jack shit to stop it, just saying their goodbyes to their family, or their loved ones, or to alcohol, and most of them getting BTFO emotionally. Hank especially got a beatdown, by his younger self.

    Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.

    So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.

    They might have
    just been willing to let someone else on the other side of the Incursion destroy Earth-616, but yeah... it didn't look like there was anything to imply that the other Earth was even aware of the Incursion or planning to counter it.

    I mean, I'd almost want to let both universes go out of cosmic spite, saying 'fuck you for making me choose, Existence, go fuck yourself, I'm not playing'.

    I really thought that the Great Society was going to wind up using the Illuminati's bomb to destroy their own world, a kind of macrocosm of their heroic nature - like, Superman would take a bullet even for Lex Luthor, so Superman-Earth would take a bullet for Lex Luth-Earth. Obviously the Illuminati didn't go there, but I wondered if one of them might consider it - sort've handing off the quest to stop the Incursions to whatever other Earth was showing up rather than go on destroying worlds to save their own.
    Me, I rooted for the Great Society to win (and find a better way).

    They were shining golden heroes.

    Then they got Cuthulu'd.

    I did hate
    that the Great Society died horribly.

    I hate it when Justice League homages die horribly. It happens almost every time - in Authority, Invincible... yeah, I get it, your characters could murder Superman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern if they had the chance.

    Yay them...?
    That uh that was not really what I got out of New Avengers.

    Like, at all.
    Yeaaaaah
    The Great Society was running circles around the Illuminati until Strange pulled his Lovecraft impression.

    They died horribly solely to show how far Strange has fallen.

    CYpGAPn.png
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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    Hoooooly shit that avengers thing I love this event

    2x39jD4.jpg
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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    I haven't been a huge fan of New Avengers, but ever since the Great Society arc, things have been amazing.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    What happened to the Great Society
    was definitely presented as not a good thing. It wasn't about "ha, look at the stupid DC pastiches getting their asses kicked" but "holy crap, these really good and wholesome people, based on Classic, supremely honorable and Justice focused archetypes got eaten by the horrible path the Illuminati have fallen down."

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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    RE: New Avengers. The best/worst part.
    The Illuminati chose to let both universes die and do jack shit to stop it, just saying their goodbyes to their family, or their loved ones, or to alcohol, and most of them getting BTFO emotionally. Hank especially got a beatdown, by his younger self.

    Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.

    So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.

    They might have
    just been willing to let someone else on the other side of the Incursion destroy Earth-616, but yeah... it didn't look like there was anything to imply that the other Earth was even aware of the Incursion or planning to counter it.

    I mean, I'd almost want to let both universes go out of cosmic spite, saying 'fuck you for making me choose, Existence, go fuck yourself, I'm not playing'.

    I really thought that the Great Society was going to wind up using the Illuminati's bomb to destroy their own world, a kind of macrocosm of their heroic nature - like, Superman would take a bullet even for Lex Luthor, so Superman-Earth would take a bullet for Lex Luth-Earth. Obviously the Illuminati didn't go there, but I wondered if one of them might consider it - sort've handing off the quest to stop the Incursions to whatever other Earth was showing up rather than go on destroying worlds to save their own.
    Me, I rooted for the Great Society to win (and find a better way).

    They were shining golden heroes.

    Then they got Cuthulu'd.

    I did hate
    that the Great Society died horribly.

    I hate it when Justice League homages die horribly. It happens almost every time - in Authority, Invincible... yeah, I get it, your characters could murder Superman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern if they had the chance.

    Yay them...?
    That uh that was not really what I got out of New Avengers.

    Like, at all.
    Yeaaaaah
    The Great Society was running circles around the Illuminati until Strange pulled his Lovecraft impression.

    They died horribly solely to show how far Strange has fallen.

    That's fair, I was thinking more about how I've seen this theme used in general rather than what specifically it was supposed to mean in this case.
    It just bugs me personally whenever an expy character is dispatched. I wouldn't want to see Superman or Batman murdered, so it isn't very fun to see a Batman stand-in being murdered, especially if it's messy.

    H9f4bVe.png
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    MetalMagusMetalMagus Too Serious Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    RE: New Avengers. The best/worst part.
    The Illuminati chose to let both universes die and do jack shit to stop it, just saying their goodbyes to their family, or their loved ones, or to alcohol, and most of them getting BTFO emotionally. Hank especially got a beatdown, by his younger self.

    Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.

    So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.

    They might have
    just been willing to let someone else on the other side of the Incursion destroy Earth-616, but yeah... it didn't look like there was anything to imply that the other Earth was even aware of the Incursion or planning to counter it.

    I mean, I'd almost want to let both universes go out of cosmic spite, saying 'fuck you for making me choose, Existence, go fuck yourself, I'm not playing'.

    I really thought that the Great Society was going to wind up using the Illuminati's bomb to destroy their own world, a kind of macrocosm of their heroic nature - like, Superman would take a bullet even for Lex Luthor, so Superman-Earth would take a bullet for Lex Luth-Earth. Obviously the Illuminati didn't go there, but I wondered if one of them might consider it - sort've handing off the quest to stop the Incursions to whatever other Earth was showing up rather than go on destroying worlds to save their own.
    Me, I rooted for the Great Society to win (and find a better way).

    They were shining golden heroes.

    Then they got Cuthulu'd.
    They may have been shining golden heroes, but they didn't have an answer for stopping that incursion either.

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    durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    I am looking forward to the next Strange story being about anything other than him falling/being dumb/being a jerk.

    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
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    jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    Strange really needs a Triumph & Torment:2014 at this point.

    tOkYVT2.jpg
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    MetalMagus wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    RE: New Avengers. The best/worst part.
    The Illuminati chose to let both universes die and do jack shit to stop it, just saying their goodbyes to their family, or their loved ones, or to alcohol, and most of them getting BTFO emotionally. Hank especially got a beatdown, by his younger self.

    Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.

    So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.

    They might have
    just been willing to let someone else on the other side of the Incursion destroy Earth-616, but yeah... it didn't look like there was anything to imply that the other Earth was even aware of the Incursion or planning to counter it.

    I mean, I'd almost want to let both universes go out of cosmic spite, saying 'fuck you for making me choose, Existence, go fuck yourself, I'm not playing'.

    I really thought that the Great Society was going to wind up using the Illuminati's bomb to destroy their own world, a kind of macrocosm of their heroic nature - like, Superman would take a bullet even for Lex Luthor, so Superman-Earth would take a bullet for Lex Luth-Earth. Obviously the Illuminati didn't go there, but I wondered if one of them might consider it - sort've handing off the quest to stop the Incursions to whatever other Earth was showing up rather than go on destroying worlds to save their own.
    Me, I rooted for the Great Society to win (and find a better way).

    They were shining golden heroes.

    Then they got Cuthulu'd.
    They may have been shining golden heroes, but they didn't have an answer for stopping that incursion either.

    Eh
    They had already found ways to stop, three I think, previous incursions with living worlds which is more then the Zero the Illuminati managed before resorting to blowing shit up.

    And its also worth noting that the didn't really get a shot since they found out the Illuminati made bombs and correctly guessed that it was always going to come to blowing up their world.

    Quire.jpg
  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    MetalMagus wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    RE: New Avengers. The best/worst part.
    The Illuminati chose to let both universes die and do jack shit to stop it, just saying their goodbyes to their family, or their loved ones, or to alcohol, and most of them getting BTFO emotionally. Hank especially got a beatdown, by his younger self.

    Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.

    So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.

    They might have
    just been willing to let someone else on the other side of the Incursion destroy Earth-616, but yeah... it didn't look like there was anything to imply that the other Earth was even aware of the Incursion or planning to counter it.

    I mean, I'd almost want to let both universes go out of cosmic spite, saying 'fuck you for making me choose, Existence, go fuck yourself, I'm not playing'.

    I really thought that the Great Society was going to wind up using the Illuminati's bomb to destroy their own world, a kind of macrocosm of their heroic nature - like, Superman would take a bullet even for Lex Luthor, so Superman-Earth would take a bullet for Lex Luth-Earth. Obviously the Illuminati didn't go there, but I wondered if one of them might consider it - sort've handing off the quest to stop the Incursions to whatever other Earth was showing up rather than go on destroying worlds to save their own.
    Me, I rooted for the Great Society to win (and find a better way).

    They were shining golden heroes.

    Then they got Cuthulu'd.
    They may have been shining golden heroes, but they didn't have an answer for stopping that incursion either.

    Eh
    They had already found ways to stop, three I think, previous incursions with living worlds which is more then the Zero the Illuminati managed before resorting to blowing shit up.

    And its also worth noting that the didn't really get a shot since they found out the Illuminati made bombs and correctly guessed that it was always going to come to blowing up their world.
    Uh, the Illumanti stopped two on their own; one with the Infinity Gauntlet and one by blowing up a dead world.

    The Great Society stopped three, one by using a Wishing Box (i.e. the Infinity Gauntlet of their universe), one by destroying a world controlled by the Ebony Priests, and one that "they do not talk about" IIRC.

    EDIT: Mapmakers, not the Black Priests. My bad.

    EDIT2: Though for only destroying 3 planets, they sure know a lot about incursions, they name drop Black Priest and Ivory Kings, and mention a prior Mapmaker incursion.

    Undead Scottsman on
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Strange really needs a Triumph & Torment:2014 at this point.
    His solo book almost certainly isn't launching until after Hickman is done so I'm guessing it will be exactly that, just one big ole redemption arc

    CYpGAPn.png
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    MetalMagus wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    RE: New Avengers. The best/worst part.
    The Illuminati chose to let both universes die and do jack shit to stop it, just saying their goodbyes to their family, or their loved ones, or to alcohol, and most of them getting BTFO emotionally. Hank especially got a beatdown, by his younger self.

    Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.

    So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.

    They might have
    just been willing to let someone else on the other side of the Incursion destroy Earth-616, but yeah... it didn't look like there was anything to imply that the other Earth was even aware of the Incursion or planning to counter it.

    I mean, I'd almost want to let both universes go out of cosmic spite, saying 'fuck you for making me choose, Existence, go fuck yourself, I'm not playing'.

    I really thought that the Great Society was going to wind up using the Illuminati's bomb to destroy their own world, a kind of macrocosm of their heroic nature - like, Superman would take a bullet even for Lex Luthor, so Superman-Earth would take a bullet for Lex Luth-Earth. Obviously the Illuminati didn't go there, but I wondered if one of them might consider it - sort've handing off the quest to stop the Incursions to whatever other Earth was showing up rather than go on destroying worlds to save their own.
    Me, I rooted for the Great Society to win (and find a better way).

    They were shining golden heroes.

    Then they got Cuthulu'd.
    They may have been shining golden heroes, but they didn't have an answer for stopping that incursion either.

    Eh
    They had already found ways to stop, three I think, previous incursions with living worlds which is more then the Zero the Illuminati managed before resorting to blowing shit up.

    And its also worth noting that the didn't really get a shot since they found out the Illuminati made bombs and correctly guessed that it was always going to come to blowing up their world.
    Uh, the Illumanti stopped two on their own; one with the Infinity Gauntlet and one by blowing up a dead world.

    The Great Society stopped three, one by using a Wishing Box (i.e. the Infinity Gauntlet of their universe), one by destroying a world controlled by the Ebony Priests, and one that "they do not talk about" IIRC.

    EDIT: Mapmakers, not the Black Priests. My bad.

    EDIT2: Though for only destroying 3 planets, they sure know a lot about incursions, they name drop Black Priest and Ivory Kings, and mention a prior Mapmaker incursion.

    There was also the one where
    They apparently moved their entire Earth out of the way of the incursion.

    Quire.jpg
  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    MetalMagus wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    RE: New Avengers. The best/worst part.
    The Illuminati chose to let both universes die and do jack shit to stop it, just saying their goodbyes to their family, or their loved ones, or to alcohol, and most of them getting BTFO emotionally. Hank especially got a beatdown, by his younger self.

    Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.

    So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.

    They might have
    just been willing to let someone else on the other side of the Incursion destroy Earth-616, but yeah... it didn't look like there was anything to imply that the other Earth was even aware of the Incursion or planning to counter it.

    I mean, I'd almost want to let both universes go out of cosmic spite, saying 'fuck you for making me choose, Existence, go fuck yourself, I'm not playing'.

    I really thought that the Great Society was going to wind up using the Illuminati's bomb to destroy their own world, a kind of macrocosm of their heroic nature - like, Superman would take a bullet even for Lex Luthor, so Superman-Earth would take a bullet for Lex Luth-Earth. Obviously the Illuminati didn't go there, but I wondered if one of them might consider it - sort've handing off the quest to stop the Incursions to whatever other Earth was showing up rather than go on destroying worlds to save their own.
    Me, I rooted for the Great Society to win (and find a better way).

    They were shining golden heroes.

    Then they got Cuthulu'd.
    They may have been shining golden heroes, but they didn't have an answer for stopping that incursion either.

    Eh
    They had already found ways to stop, three I think, previous incursions with living worlds which is more then the Zero the Illuminati managed before resorting to blowing shit up.

    And its also worth noting that the didn't really get a shot since they found out the Illuminati made bombs and correctly guessed that it was always going to come to blowing up their world.
    Uh, the Illumanti stopped two on their own; one with the Infinity Gauntlet and one by blowing up a dead world.

    The Great Society stopped three, one by using a Wishing Box (i.e. the Infinity Gauntlet of their universe), one by destroying a world controlled by the Ebony Priests, and one that "they do not talk about" IIRC.

    EDIT: Mapmakers, not the Black Priests. My bad.

    EDIT2: Though for only destroying 3 planets, they sure know a lot about incursions, they name drop Black Priest and Ivory Kings, and mention a prior Mapmaker incursion.

    There was also the one where
    They apparently moved their entire Earth out of the way of the incursion.
    That was the wishing box, apparently.

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    Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    Ok. Love the NA post. LOVE it.

    O we gonna get some kind of Namor thing now with his new buddies doing their thing? That could be a valid thing to do.

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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    Ok. Love the NA post. LOVE it.

    O we gonna get some kind of Namor thing now with his new buddies doing their thing? That could be a valid thing to do.

    Bound to be.
    At least some issue of NA focusing on the Cabal wracking up a world-count and conflict with the Illuminati. I suspect we'll see the Cabal, with Black Swan giving pointers, taking down one of the never-before-seen big bads we've heard of, just to let everyone know what the score is.

    I wonder if this'll be the prelude to finding out who/what the nature of the Incursion's original cause is, this Rabaum thing.

    H9f4bVe.png
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    tomisboredtomisbored Cavalier, NDRegistered User regular
    OK I am SOOO far behind on the New Avengers/Avengers. I am going comic shopping this weekend, were do I start?

    A magician wandered along the beach, but no one needed him.
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Well that depends, how far behind exactly are you?

    With Avengers, I can tell you that the current story arc started in issue #29 and the most recent issue is #33. If you can pick up 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33, you should be good.

    New Avengers is kind of harder to say. The most recent issue is #23, but #16 is probably the best issue to jump on with what's been going on.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Really with New Avengers you want to read the whole run

    it is really worth it

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I haven't felt like Strange has fallen at all, at least in the context of what's been happening.

    He's actually got the biggest gripe out of everyone on the team. He went above and beyond what anyone else did to get to that point, even willing to give up his soul just to push back, and then everyone ran away from the decision. So he's rightly pissed that he was the one who had to go over the edge and no one is backing up his sacrifice. Well, except Namor, Defenders gotta stick together, yo.

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    EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    I really want to get into this whole story arch myself. But this is the kind of stuff I want to have some permanent change. Just like PH/WWH (the last big event I followed), I'm saddened to know that it's likely all/almost all going to be erased soon after the event ends, if not exactly when the event ends.

    The stuff with Namor and Strange especially could lead to years worth of excellent stories following them down their respective paths, but I just don't see them turning them into long term "bad guys" enough to really flesh that out.

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    wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    In the subject of permanent change I'd like to see some of the altered personalities in Axis stick around afterwards.

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    I really want to get into this whole story arch myself. But this is the kind of stuff I want to have some permanent change. Just like PH/WWH (the last big event I followed), I'm saddened to know that it's likely all/almost all going to be erased soon after the event ends, if not exactly when the event ends.

    The stuff with Namor and Strange especially could lead to years worth of excellent stories following them down their respective paths, but I just don't see them turning them into long term "bad guys" enough to really flesh that out.

    Isn't namor like, always a bad guy? I mean he'll push as far as anti-hero but the man that drowned a country out of spite ain't exactly captain America.

    Quire.jpg
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I haven't felt like Strange has fallen at all, at least in the context of what's been happening.

    He's actually got the biggest gripe out of everyone on the team. He went above and beyond what anyone else did to get to that point, even willing to give up his soul just to push back, and then everyone ran away from the decision. So he's rightly pissed that he was the one who had to go over the edge and no one is backing up his sacrifice. Well, except Namor, Defenders gotta stick together, yo.
    What

    He literally sold his soul, or at least tried to, summoned the blackest magics possible and has fallen so far Wong told him he is no longer a good man to his face.

    Like even if you argue he was doing it for the greater good he has fallen hard

    CYpGAPn.png
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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    I really want to get into this whole story arch myself. But this is the kind of stuff I want to have some permanent change. Just like PH/WWH (the last big event I followed), I'm saddened to know that it's likely all/almost all going to be erased soon after the event ends, if not exactly when the event ends.

    The stuff with Namor and Strange especially could lead to years worth of excellent stories following them down their respective paths, but I just don't see them turning them into long term "bad guys" enough to really flesh that out.

    To be fair to Marvel, they do drip in that change. Event with WWH, the tense relationship between Banner and the Illuminati is a result of the incident, to the point where Banner nearly went nuclear when he learned they had gotten back together.

    I actually really like the way Marvel handles that type of community. Everyone knows that they aren't going to off a major intellectual property long-term, so Marvel compensates by constantly shifting the relationships between characters and the world. A big example is that not only are mutants still rare in the Marvel Universe, but no one on the X-Men are big fans of the Scarlet Witch.

    I'd say the biggest odd note to me is that Stark, Thor and Captain America can still work together after the Civil War. Even then, Hickman's weaving that into the slow but steady falling apart of the two's relationship over in the Avengers.

    Phillishere on
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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    The morality of the Illumaniti's actions should be looked at in a different light:

    They aren't acting as Heroes, they're acting as Kings. A King throws aside their own desires and morality and places their charge of protecting the people under them above themselves. In issue #1, the Illuminati made the choice to be Kings. As the series has gone on, that choice has been put on trial, and all of them outside of Strange and Namor have been found wanting. The majority of the Illuminati weren't prepared to act upon their convictions; they failed.

    The morality comes into play in the very first issue. The question of was it the moral choice to take this task upon themselves and become Kings above everyone else in decision, responsibility, and secrecy... or be Heroes and share the burden. You could say the first choice was immoral and evil and narcissistic/egotistical, easily... but it's hard to fault Namor and Strange after the choice has been made for being the only two actually willing to do what it takes to follow it and save the Universe they live on.

    TL;DR.
    Namor and Strange are Kings. T'Challa, Reed, Stark McCoy, and Black Bolt are hypocrites who weren't willing to make the sacrifices required of the path they chose.

    // Steam: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    I am fully amazed that Hank McCoy can still be mad at Scott Summers for being drowned by the Phoenix, losing his sense of self, and killing his mentor to which still haunts him... when Hank has been an accomplice of the murder of billions of innocent people.

    It's like... you have no right to judge.

    // Steam: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Imagine a soldier who's been complicit in killing dozens of people in war. Does that mean he doesn't get to be upset when someone kills his own father? Of course not. Emotional attachments are stronger than some math equation about who is the worse person.

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    Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    I don't even know how you process the death of billions. I think the inability to size it up might be a factor in this...if the writer intended it.

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    The entire point of New Avengers #23 is the Illuminati trying to grasp what they've found themselves responsible for.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    The morality of the Illumaniti's actions should be looked at in a different light:

    They aren't acting as Heroes, they're acting as Kings. A King throws aside their own desires and morality and places their charge of protecting the people under them above themselves. In issue #1, the Illuminati made the choice to be Kings. As the series has gone on, that choice has been put on trial, and all of them outside of Strange and Namor have been found wanting. The majority of the Illuminati weren't prepared to act upon their convictions; they failed.

    The morality comes into play in the very first issue. The question of was it the moral choice to take this task upon themselves and become Kings above everyone else in decision, responsibility, and secrecy... or be Heroes and share the burden. You could say the first choice was immoral and evil and narcissistic/egotistical, easily... but it's hard to fault Namor and Strange after the choice has been made for being the only two actually willing to do what it takes to follow it and save the Universe they live on.

    TL;DR.
    Namor and Strange are Kings. T'Challa, Reed, Stark McCoy, and Black Bolt are hypocrites who weren't willing to make the sacrifices required of the path they chose.

    I find this post extremely weird. It seems to imply that you think the morale of the story is that the characters should have set themselves atop humanity and embraced their power without any worry for the horrors they would preform.

    I honestly cannot imagine anything more opposite to what the comic appears to be try to say.

    Quire.jpg
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    MetalMagusMetalMagus Too Serious Registered User regular

    I honestly cannot imagine anything more opposite to what the comic appears to be try to say.

    In a no-win situation, everyone loses? Because honestly that's all I'm really getting out of Hickman's grand Incursion event. It's doing some great things with certain characters, but overall just feels really.... oppressive?

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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I haven't felt like Strange has fallen at all, at least in the context of what's been happening.

    He's actually got the biggest gripe out of everyone on the team. He went above and beyond what anyone else did to get to that point, even willing to give up his soul just to push back, and then everyone ran away from the decision. So he's rightly pissed that he was the one who had to go over the edge and no one is backing up his sacrifice. Well, except Namor, Defenders gotta stick together, yo.
    What

    He literally sold his soul, or at least tried to, summoned the blackest magics possible and has fallen so far Wong told him he is no longer a good man to his face.

    Like even if you argue he was doing it for the greater good he has fallen hard

    Both valid points.

    So, does Strange go further down the dark path out of anger, or does he try to become a good man again? Or first one, then th'other?

    Sounds like a good story whichever way.

    H9f4bVe.png
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    M-TeeM-Tee Registered User regular
    Hey Munch,

    What else came out this week?

    Thanks,
    --M-Tee.

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