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MOTW 8-20-14: All the angels have fallen, and we devils are all that remain.
TexiKen
Dammit!That fish really got me!Registered User regular
Dammit!That fish really got me!Registered User regular
New Avengers #23, watch it suckerpunch you out of the blue:
+6
Posts
God. Damn.
Oh, and Strange left this plane with a Black Priest helmet after Wong left and told him he was not a good man.
So yeah. Rather than trying to find a better way or rally the troops, the Illuminati decided to end their own universe through inaction and secrecy choosing to instead wallow in their own despair and self-pity... and Namor said fuck that, I'm going to save the Earth and the Universe and everyone on it.
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They might have
I mean, I'd almost want to let both universes go out of cosmic spite, saying 'fuck you for making me choose, Existence, go fuck yourself, I'm not playing'.
I really thought that the Great Society was going to wind up using the Illuminati's bomb to destroy their own world, a kind of macrocosm of their heroic nature - like, Superman would take a bullet even for Lex Luthor, so Superman-Earth would take a bullet for Lex Luth-Earth. Obviously the Illuminati didn't go there, but I wondered if one of them might consider it - sort've handing off the quest to stop the Incursions to whatever other Earth was showing up rather than go on destroying worlds to save their own.
They were shining golden heroes.
Then they got Cuthulu'd.
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I did hate
I hate it when Justice League homages die horribly. It happens almost every time - in Authority, Invincible... yeah, I get it, your characters could murder Superman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern if they had the chance.
Yay them...?
Like, at all.
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EDIT: never mind, question answered in the marvel thread
side point: i fuckin' love kev walker!
side point 2: at some point i'm going to have to buy hickman's whole avengers/ new avengers run and it's going to cost an absolute fortune
They died horribly solely to show how far Strange has fallen.
That's fair, I was thinking more about how I've seen this theme used in general rather than what specifically it was supposed to mean in this case.
Eh
And its also worth noting that the didn't really get a shot since they found out the Illuminati made bombs and correctly guessed that it was always going to come to blowing up their world.
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The Great Society stopped three, one by using a Wishing Box (i.e. the Infinity Gauntlet of their universe), one by destroying a world controlled by the Ebony Priests, and one that "they do not talk about" IIRC.
EDIT: Mapmakers, not the Black Priests. My bad.
EDIT2: Though for only destroying 3 planets, they sure know a lot about incursions, they name drop Black Priest and Ivory Kings, and mention a prior Mapmaker incursion.
There was also the one where
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O we gonna get some kind of Namor thing now with his new buddies doing their thing? That could be a valid thing to do.
Bound to be.
I wonder if this'll be the prelude to finding out who/what the nature of the Incursion's original cause is, this Rabaum thing.
With Avengers, I can tell you that the current story arc started in issue #29 and the most recent issue is #33. If you can pick up 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33, you should be good.
New Avengers is kind of harder to say. The most recent issue is #23, but #16 is probably the best issue to jump on with what's been going on.
it is really worth it
He's actually got the biggest gripe out of everyone on the team. He went above and beyond what anyone else did to get to that point, even willing to give up his soul just to push back, and then everyone ran away from the decision. So he's rightly pissed that he was the one who had to go over the edge and no one is backing up his sacrifice. Well, except Namor, Defenders gotta stick together, yo.
The stuff with Namor and Strange especially could lead to years worth of excellent stories following them down their respective paths, but I just don't see them turning them into long term "bad guys" enough to really flesh that out.
Isn't namor like, always a bad guy? I mean he'll push as far as anti-hero but the man that drowned a country out of spite ain't exactly captain America.
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He literally sold his soul, or at least tried to, summoned the blackest magics possible and has fallen so far Wong told him he is no longer a good man to his face.
Like even if you argue he was doing it for the greater good he has fallen hard
To be fair to Marvel, they do drip in that change. Event with WWH, the tense relationship between Banner and the Illuminati is a result of the incident, to the point where Banner nearly went nuclear when he learned they had gotten back together.
I actually really like the way Marvel handles that type of community. Everyone knows that they aren't going to off a major intellectual property long-term, so Marvel compensates by constantly shifting the relationships between characters and the world. A big example is that not only are mutants still rare in the Marvel Universe, but no one on the X-Men are big fans of the Scarlet Witch.
I'd say the biggest odd note to me is that Stark, Thor and Captain America can still work together after the Civil War. Even then, Hickman's weaving that into the slow but steady falling apart of the two's relationship over in the Avengers.
They aren't acting as Heroes, they're acting as Kings. A King throws aside their own desires and morality and places their charge of protecting the people under them above themselves. In issue #1, the Illuminati made the choice to be Kings. As the series has gone on, that choice has been put on trial, and all of them outside of Strange and Namor have been found wanting. The majority of the Illuminati weren't prepared to act upon their convictions; they failed.
The morality comes into play in the very first issue. The question of was it the moral choice to take this task upon themselves and become Kings above everyone else in decision, responsibility, and secrecy... or be Heroes and share the burden. You could say the first choice was immoral and evil and narcissistic/egotistical, easily... but it's hard to fault Namor and Strange after the choice has been made for being the only two actually willing to do what it takes to follow it and save the Universe they live on.
TL;DR.
Namor and Strange are Kings. T'Challa, Reed, Stark McCoy, and Black Bolt are hypocrites who weren't willing to make the sacrifices required of the path they chose.
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It's like... you have no right to judge.
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I find this post extremely weird. It seems to imply that you think the morale of the story is that the characters should have set themselves atop humanity and embraced their power without any worry for the horrors they would preform.
I honestly cannot imagine anything more opposite to what the comic appears to be try to say.
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In a no-win situation, everyone loses? Because honestly that's all I'm really getting out of Hickman's grand Incursion event. It's doing some great things with certain characters, but overall just feels really.... oppressive?
Both valid points.
So, does Strange go further down the dark path out of anger, or does he try to become a good man again? Or first one, then th'other?
Sounds like a good story whichever way.
What else came out this week?
Thanks,
--M-Tee.