If I ever start a band, it's gonna be called 'Insular Hugbox'.
If I ever become so spineless as to make shitty pathetic passive aggressive attempts at insults and congratulating myself for having a closed-minded myopic opinions, I'll rename myself "vsove"
You poor excuses for humans make sick with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou, self-congratulatory bullshit.
This insular hugbox is a fucking disgrace and disgruntled "progressive" trash like you are one of the main problems with current western civilization.
If anything else, the thing I "like" about this current controversy is that it has shown that a significant portion of "gamers" are awful, terrible people.
vsove has received death threats. Phil Fish has received death threats. Basically any woman in the industry at all receives death threats.
Why the hell is "be an incredible jerk, and wish death, rape, and boils upon people you disagree with," the seemingly normal response to anything mildly controversial in the video game industry?
Why do so many people do it in the first place? How can we stop them? How can we, as a community, distance ourselves from them?
None of this is acceptable behavior. It isn't acceptable to send graphic death threats when someone changes the UI of your MMO, it isn't acceptable to send death threats when you think some lady got favoritism from her boyfriend, it isn't acceptable to harass female writers into leaving the industry.
How do we, as a community, stop it?
I'm not really sure. I feel like the internet has made us take a few steps back in a lot of directions, because its so easy to find people who will backup any world view.
It doesn't matter whether we think their views and actions are terrible, what matters is that they have a community that thinks their views and actions are right and proper.
ISIS is running a social media campaign to attract people to give their lives up for jihad against the west, and its apparently working.
If we can't stop people from throwing away their lives for fundamentalist Islam, how do you stop people from practicing and perpetuating simple misogyny?
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
You poor excuses for humans make sick with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou, self-congratulatory bullshit.
This insular hugbox is a fucking disgrace and disgruntled "progressive" trash like you are one of the main problems with current western civilization.
Disgruntled? Hell, we're gonna win.
Kiss your world good bye.
lel epic reply brah!
SOCIAL JUSTICE! SOCIAL JUSTICE! WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE WORLD BY IRRATIONALLY WHINING ABOUT STUPID SHIT!
So you come here and make an account not to have a discussion, but to spout off insults? And you're saying WE'RE whining about stupid shit? You're spending your time going from website to website to find people who disagree with you and yelling at them. If you have an argument, make it. That's how adults convince people of things.
You poor excuses for humans make sick with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou, self-congratulatory bullshit.
This insular hugbox is a fucking disgrace and disgruntled "progressive" trash like you are one of the main problems with current western civilization.
A pity, because this hugbox has more reviews, more games, more knowledge, and drops more money on charities than any of the websites damned or praised by gamersgate.
A significant fact you should note, is found upon the profiles of most everyone in here. You see, we have badges, age badges, for people who've been here for a certain amount of time. I myself joined PA in 2003 after many years of lurking. As have others. I've seen many a meme come and go, from ranger threads to forum battles.
What I'm trying to say here is that we're adults, many of us have kids, or support kids in our families, we look at gaming as not a hobby or personal release valve after work, but as first and foremost a treasured memory from our childhood, given to us by parents who've passed on, and is something we will become better at so we can pass it onto a new generation.
So when we see the death treats, the goatse's, the doxxing, we aren't looking at it as something happening in the "now," but something attacking what was is our "once was" and our "what will be."
Doritosgate is being brought up because its a cleaner depiction of the corruption you are right to criticize, and doesn't involved the battle between an allegedly unfaithful woman and a man too stupid to realize if he rags on his ex like that, no women will date him for fear of the same treatment.
Your battle for journalistic integrity in the arena you love is a righteous one, but don't use broken hearts as the basis of your battle cry.
If I ever start a band, it's gonna be called 'Insular Hugbox'.
If I ever become so spineless as to make shitty pathetic passive aggressive attempts at insults and congratulating myself for having a closed-minded myopic opinions, I'll rename myself "vsove"
Well, better rename yourself then.
No I don't.
+9
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
You poor excuses for humans make sick with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou, self-congratulatory bullshit.
This insular hugbox is a fucking disgrace and disgruntled "progressive" trash like you are one of the main problems with current western civilization.
If anything else, the thing I "like" about this current controversy is that it has shown that a significant portion of "gamers" are awful, terrible people.
@vsove has received death threats. Phil Fish has received death threats. Basically any woman in the industry at all receives death threats.
Why the hell is "be an incredible jerk, and wish death, rape, and boils upon people you disagree with," the seemingly normal response to anything mildly controversial in the video game industry?
Why do so many people do it in the first place? How can we stop them? How can we, as a community, distance ourselves from them?
None of this is acceptable behavior. It isn't acceptable to send graphic death threats when someone changes the UI of your MMO, it isn't acceptable to send death threats when you think some lady got favoritism from her boyfriend, it isn't acceptable to harass female writers into leaving the industry.
How do we, as a community, stop it?
This is something I'm curious about myself.
I've read a number of articles regarding harassment and toxicity (the one that springs to mind is Leigh Alexander's "But WHAT CAN BE DONE: Dos and Don’ts To Combat Online Sexism"). But one thing they all seem to have in common is that they are reactionary. It's suggestions for how to deal with harassment, toxicity, and shitty attitudes after they have happened. There's nothing I have seen that suggests a course of action for how to preemptively deal with these issues.
Actually if you want to know a solution, there is one.
You're actually posting in it. Ask Tube or the other adminstrators of this forum who changed this place around from being a really toxic place at times, to one that is highly welcoming of women, trans people and others. Nowhere is absolutely perfect of course, but I can't really think of a forum that has generally done a better job at actually removing the problematic elements as well as this one has.
Holy everloving fuck, I followed the link Zoe tweeted (it actually links to a blog I check mostly daily, so I would have seen it anyway), and
Fuck
A couple of days ago, embattled indie game designer Zoe Quinn embarrassed some of her biggest critics by posting screenshots she’d collected from a 4channer IRC channel, showing an assortment of hateful and duplicitous #GamerGaters literally conspiring to wreck her reputation and create the illusion of a vast grassroots uprising against alleged corruption in the gaming business.
Her critics, put on the defensive, tried their best to dismiss her screenshots as “cherry picked,” and a few even accused her of writing the very messages she screenshotted and posted. Oh, there might be a few bad apples in the bunch, some were willing to concede, but they were in the minority.
And then they pulled out what they thought was their trump card: the full chat log from the IRC channel #burgersandfries from when the Zoe Quinn “scandal” first erupted in mid-August up until September 6th. All anyone had to do, they suggested, was to read the log, and they would soon see that Quinn was presenting a distorted picture based on out-of-context, “cherry-picked” quotes.
Even a quick skim through the document demonstrates that Quinn’s screenshots are hardly cherry-picked; you can flip to literally any page in this long, long document and find evidence of egregious misogyny and outright malice. Look a little deeper and you can find discussions of doxxing and spamming and all sorts of other dirty tricks.
The name “Zoe” appears 4778 times in the document, more than once per page; by contrast, “Nathan” – the first name of the allegedly corrupt game journalist she allegedly slept with – appears only 108 times. The words “ethics” and “ethical” appear, collectively, only 146 times.
The 4channers express their hatred and disgust towards her; they express their glee at the thought of ruining her career; they fantasize about her being raped and killed. They wonder if all the harassment will drive her to suicide, and only the thought of 4chan getting bad publicity convinces some of them that this isn’t something they should hope for.
And then there is the ongoing discussion of her vagina [...]
It’s not clear how exactly the size or shape or smell of Quinn’s vagina relates to the high-minded issues of gaming ethics that the #GamerGaters are said to be concerned with.
I am not posting any quotes from the IRC logs because god damn, but it is pretty blatantly obvious that this is in no way about "ethics", when actually, it maybe should be
But probably not the kind of ethics that these guys want to talk about
[*]Chances are that you are not a moderator, so don't try to police the thread. If someone is obviously breaking a rule, then don't engage. Report their ass and move on, as chances are their goal is to get a rise out of your and drag the thread into a multi-page slap fight. Reporting the post and not acknowledging the person will avoid so many conflicts and deny shitty trolls their precious giggles.
....sorry for make a no-content post policing the thread :B
Dang, progressive hugbox sounds fantastic. Such an idea will need plenty of a/c though.
Come into the box, and our professionals will give ya an earnest hug. We're open to folk of all races, genders, shapes or nationalities.
Plz leave a tip, and don't forget to vote!
You poor excuses for humans make sick with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou, self-congratulatory bullshit.
This insular hugbox is a fucking disgrace and disgruntled "progressive" trash like you are one of the main problems with current western civilization.
If anything else, the thing I "like" about this current controversy is that it has shown that a significant portion of "gamers" are awful, terrible people.
@vsove has received death threats. Phil Fish has received death threats. Basically any woman in the industry at all receives death threats.
Why the hell is "be an incredible jerk, and wish death, rape, and boils upon people you disagree with," the seemingly normal response to anything mildly controversial in the video game industry?
Why do so many people do it in the first place? How can we stop them? How can we, as a community, distance ourselves from them?
None of this is acceptable behavior. It isn't acceptable to send graphic death threats when someone changes the UI of your MMO, it isn't acceptable to send death threats when you think some lady got favoritism from her boyfriend, it isn't acceptable to harass female writers into leaving the industry.
How do we, as a community, stop it?
This is something I'm curious about myself.
I've read a number of articles regarding harassment and toxicity (the one that springs to mind is Leigh Alexander's "But WHAT CAN BE DONE: Dos and Don’ts To Combat Online Sexism"). But one thing they all seem to have in common is that they are reactionary. It's suggestions for how to deal with harassment, toxicity, and shitty attitudes after they have happened. There's nothing I have seen that suggests a course of action for how to preemptively deal with these issues.
Actually if you want to know a solution, there is one.
You're actually posting in it. Ask Tube or the other adminstrators of this forum who changed this place around from being a really toxic place at times, to one that is highly welcoming of women, trans people and others. Nowhere is absolutely perfect of course, but I can't really think of a forum that has generally done a better job at actually removing the problematic elements as well as this one has.
You poor excuses for humans make sick with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou, self-congratulatory bullshit.
This insular hugbox is a fucking disgrace and disgruntled "progressive" trash like you are one of the main problems with current western civilization.
Disgruntled? Hell, we're gonna win.
Kiss your world good bye.
lel epic reply brah!
SOCIAL JUSTICE! SOCIAL JUSTICE! WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE WORLD BY IRRATIONALLY WHINING ABOUT STUPID SHIT!
So you come here and make an account not to have a discussion, but to spout off insults? And you're saying WE'RE whining about stupid shit?
When people (you) do stupid shit, yes, they get called stupid.
You're spending your time going from website to website to find people who disagree with you and yelling at them. If you have an argument, make it. That's how adults convince people of things.
Idiots are beyond convincing. I'm here to laugh at you.
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited September 2014
I mean I don't want to moderate or anything.
But why are you guys even engaging with him? Just like report, not like he saying much of anything.
If I ever start a band, it's gonna be called 'Insular Hugbox'.
If I ever become so spineless as to make shitty pathetic passive aggressive attempts at insults and congratulating myself for having a closed-minded myopic opinions, I'll rename myself "vsove"
That is the implication, yes. That is why people think that is what you are implying.
I was trying to imply that gross improprieties in relationships shouldn't have some special privilege of not being talked about. In each of these cases, I see there as being good reason for the people around the victim to be aware that this happened.
See but one of these things is not like the other. Sesame Street taught us how to play this game.
Cheating is a gross impropriety in a relationship. The other things cause extensive physical, emotional, and psychological damage that reach far beyond what you are talking about with a breach of trust in a romantic relationship. They are not "gross improprieties." They are horrible, damaging crimes.
I don't know exactly what you are trying to do here with all of this and it's pretty off-topic anyway, but never say anything like this again.
Wait... what?
You're saying that cheating doesn't cause extensive physical, emotional and psychological damage? Unless you've been cheated on multiple times to the point that you're numb to it (in which case the damage is already done), it's a terrible thing to happen to you.
I daresay that cheating is one of the worst things that could ever happen to you if you're in a romantic relationship where you both openly profess your love for one another. Cheating ruins more lives than harassment over the Internet does. Honestly, I think there should be an online resource where you can figure out if someone is a known cheater. You'd save many people from wasting years of their lives on doomed relationships, prevent much heartbreak and curb the creation of broken families from the outset.
Luckily I've personally never been cheated on (as far as I know) but I've had to pick up the pieces of my mother when my father cheated on her repeatedly throughout their marriage, then left her with no prospects at 61 years old. Have you ever seen someone try to commit suicide by hypothermia? Yeah. Cheating hurts more than some of the most grievous physical wounds. I take extreme offense to those here trying to downplay the severity of cheating.
If I were cheated on, I'd tell the world too. Just because it isn't implicitly illegal doesn't shield you from the fallout that may come from such a betrayal. Personally, I can't see why someone would go to the lengths Gjioni has unless he was indeed cheated on. Whether or not you believe he was cheated on is neither here nor there. We all have already made our conclusions on that front. I'm not here to convince you one way or the other. I just want to raise my perspective on where this behaviour may be coming from.
I'm sorry to have dragged something up from so far back in the conversation but I'm getting caught up here and I just couldn't let this go without saying something. Cheating may not excuse harassment but there's no excuse for cheating. Let's not pretend that cheating isn't a terrible thing that no good person should have to experience.
Again, I'm sorry to derail. Please feel free to ignore this rant if it's no longer pertinent to the conversation. I just needed to say my piece.
Sometimes, you need to stop, and consider your words. I was about to write a whiny little silly goose post (I actually saw geese at the state fair today), but decided against it.
@rchou What is your argument concerning gamersgate, separate from Zoe Quinn and her free games and her cyborg implants?
You poor excuses for humans make sick with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou, self-congratulatory bullshit.
This insular hugbox is a fucking disgrace and disgruntled "progressive" trash like you are one of the main problems with current western civilization.
A pity, because this hugbox has more reviews, more games, more knowledge, and drops more money on charities than any of the websites damned or praised by gamersgate.
A significant fact you should note, is found upon the profiles of most everyone in here. You see, we have badges, age badges, for people who've been here for a certain amount of time. I myself joined PA in 2003 after many years of lurking. As have others. I've seen many a meme come and go, from ranger threads to forum battles.
What I'm trying to say here is that we're adults, many of us have kids, or support kids in our families, we look at gaming as not a hobby or personal release valve after work, but as first and foremost a treasured memory from our childhood, given to us by parents who've passed on, and is something we will become better at so we can pass it onto a new generation.
So when we see the death treats, the goatse's, the doxxing, we aren't looking at it as something happening in the "now," but something attacking what was is our "once was" and our "what will be."
Doritosgate is being brought up because its a cleaner depiction of the corruption you are right to criticize, and doesn't involved the battle between an allegedly unfaithful woman and a man too stupid to realize if he rags on his ex like that, no women will date him for fear of the same treatment.
Your battle for journalistic integrity in the arena you love is a righteous one, but don't use broken hearts as the basis of your battle cry.
You know nothing about me, idiot, save for my disgust for garbage like you.
I don't care about your life or your desires. I just want you to fuck off and die.
Holy everloving fuck, I followed the link Zoe tweeted (it actually links to a blog I check mostly daily, so I would have seen it anyway), and
Fuck
A couple of days ago, embattled indie game designer Zoe Quinn embarrassed some of her biggest critics by posting screenshots she’d collected from a 4channer IRC channel, showing an assortment of hateful and duplicitous #GamerGaters literally conspiring to wreck her reputation and create the illusion of a vast grassroots uprising against alleged corruption in the gaming business.
Her critics, put on the defensive, tried their best to dismiss her screenshots as “cherry picked,” and a few even accused her of writing the very messages she screenshotted and posted. Oh, there might be a few bad apples in the bunch, some were willing to concede, but they were in the minority.
And then they pulled out what they thought was their trump card: the full chat log from the IRC channel #burgersandfries from when the Zoe Quinn “scandal” first erupted in mid-August up until September 6th. All anyone had to do, they suggested, was to read the log, and they would soon see that Quinn was presenting a distorted picture based on out-of-context, “cherry-picked” quotes.
Even a quick skim through the document demonstrates that Quinn’s screenshots are hardly cherry-picked; you can flip to literally any page in this long, long document and find evidence of egregious misogyny and outright malice. Look a little deeper and you can find discussions of doxxing and spamming and all sorts of other dirty tricks.
The name “Zoe” appears 4778 times in the document, more than once per page; by contrast, “Nathan” – the first name of the allegedly corrupt game journalist she allegedly slept with – appears only 108 times. The words “ethics” and “ethical” appear, collectively, only 146 times.
The 4channers express their hatred and disgust towards her; they express their glee at the thought of ruining her career; they fantasize about her being raped and killed. They wonder if all the harassment will drive her to suicide, and only the thought of 4chan getting bad publicity convinces some of them that this isn’t something they should hope for.
And then there is the ongoing discussion of her vagina [...]
It’s not clear how exactly the size or shape or smell of Quinn’s vagina relates to the high-minded issues of gaming ethics that the #GamerGaters are said to be concerned with.
I am not posting any quotes from the IRC logs because god damn, but it is pretty blatantly obvious that this is in no way about "ethics", when actually, it maybe should be
But probably not the kind of ethics that these guys want to talk about
It's really bizarre that they posted the whole chat log as their defense. Did they just honestly think no one would read it?
Holy everloving fuck, I followed the link Zoe tweeted (it actually links to a blog I check mostly daily, so I would have seen it anyway), and
Fuck
A couple of days ago, embattled indie game designer Zoe Quinn embarrassed some of her biggest critics by posting screenshots she’d collected from a 4channer IRC channel, showing an assortment of hateful and duplicitous #GamerGaters literally conspiring to wreck her reputation and create the illusion of a vast grassroots uprising against alleged corruption in the gaming business.
Her critics, put on the defensive, tried their best to dismiss her screenshots as “cherry picked,” and a few even accused her of writing the very messages she screenshotted and posted. Oh, there might be a few bad apples in the bunch, some were willing to concede, but they were in the minority.
And then they pulled out what they thought was their trump card: the full chat log from the IRC channel #burgersandfries from when the Zoe Quinn “scandal” first erupted in mid-August up until September 6th. All anyone had to do, they suggested, was to read the log, and they would soon see that Quinn was presenting a distorted picture based on out-of-context, “cherry-picked” quotes.
Even a quick skim through the document demonstrates that Quinn’s screenshots are hardly cherry-picked; you can flip to literally any page in this long, long document and find evidence of egregious misogyny and outright malice. Look a little deeper and you can find discussions of doxxing and spamming and all sorts of other dirty tricks.
The name “Zoe” appears 4778 times in the document, more than once per page; by contrast, “Nathan” – the first name of the allegedly corrupt game journalist she allegedly slept with – appears only 108 times. The words “ethics” and “ethical” appear, collectively, only 146 times.
The 4channers express their hatred and disgust towards her; they express their glee at the thought of ruining her career; they fantasize about her being raped and killed. They wonder if all the harassment will drive her to suicide, and only the thought of 4chan getting bad publicity convinces some of them that this isn’t something they should hope for.
And then there is the ongoing discussion of her vagina [...]
It’s not clear how exactly the size or shape or smell of Quinn’s vagina relates to the high-minded issues of gaming ethics that the #GamerGaters are said to be concerned with.
I am not posting any quotes from the IRC logs because god damn, but it is pretty blatantly obvious that this is in no way about "ethics", when actually, it maybe should be
But probably not the kind of ethics that these guys want to talk about
It's really bizarre that they posted the whole chat log as their defense. Did they just honestly think no one would read it?
I believe they thought it would make Zoe's evidence inadmissible.
Thus cementing their grasp of law as being around that of Michael Scott.
The weird thing is many of us in the games journalism industry are perfectly willing to talk about ethics. That's an easy discussion to have because many of us are already thinking about.
Is game journalism perfect? Of course not, but that's a far cry from "all games journalism is corrupt".
If that's where the movement wanted to go, they could've easily gotten there with no problem.
You're saying that cheating doesn't cause extensive physical, emotional and psychological damage? Unless you've been cheated on multiple times to the point that you're numb to it (in which case the damage is already done), it's a terrible thing to happen to you.
I daresay that cheating is one of the worst things that could ever happen to you if you're in a romantic relationship where you both openly profess your love for one another. Cheating ruins more lives than harassment over the Internet does. Honestly, I think there should be an online resource where you can figure out if someone is a known cheater. You'd save many people from wasting years of their lives on doomed relationships, prevent much heartbreak and curb the creation of broken families from the outset.
Luckily I've personally never been cheated on (as far as I know) but I've had to pick up the pieces of my mother when my father cheated on her repeatedly throughout their marriage, then left her with no prospects at 61 years old. Have you ever seen someone try to commit suicide by hypothermia? Yeah. Cheating hurts more than some of the most grievous physical wounds. I take extreme offense to those here trying to downplay the severity of cheating.
If I were cheated on, I'd tell the world too. Just because it isn't implicitly illegal doesn't shield you from the fallout that may come from such a betrayal. Personally, I can't see why someone would go to the lengths Gjioni has unless he was indeed cheated on. Whether or not you believe he was cheated on is neither here nor there. We all have already made our conclusions on that front. I'm not here to convince you one way or the other. I just want to raise my perspective on where this behaviour may be coming from.
I'm sorry to have dragged something up from so far back in the conversation but I'm getting caught up here and I just couldn't let this go without saying something. Cheating may not excuse harassment but there's no excuse for cheating. Let's not pretend that cheating isn't a terrible thing that no good person should have to experience.
I've been cheated on. I still wouldn't spread that news out to the internet. Telling my close, personal friends is one thing. Telling everyone is just putting the other person is the crosshairs, which isn't a very adult thing to do. I can understand the anger that would drive someone to do that, but I certainly don't condone it.
You poor excuses for humans make sick with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou, self-congratulatory bullshit.
This insular hugbox is a fucking disgrace and disgruntled "progressive" trash like you are one of the main problems with current western civilization.
A pity, because this hugbox has more reviews, more games, more knowledge, and drops more money on charities than any of the websites damned or praised by gamersgate.
A significant fact you should note, is found upon the profiles of most everyone in here. You see, we have badges, age badges, for people who've been here for a certain amount of time. I myself joined PA in 2003 after many years of lurking. As have others. I've seen many a meme come and go, from ranger threads to forum battles.
What I'm trying to say here is that we're adults, many of us have kids, or support kids in our families, we look at gaming as not a hobby or personal release valve after work, but as first and foremost a treasured memory from our childhood, given to us by parents who've passed on, and is something we will become better at so we can pass it onto a new generation.
So when we see the death treats, the goatse's, the doxxing, we aren't looking at it as something happening in the "now," but something attacking what was is our "once was" and our "what will be."
Doritosgate is being brought up because its a cleaner depiction of the corruption you are right to criticize, and doesn't involved the battle between an allegedly unfaithful woman and a man too stupid to realize if he rags on his ex like that, no women will date him for fear of the same treatment.
Your battle for journalistic integrity in the arena you love is a righteous one, but don't use broken hearts as the basis of your battle cry.
You know nothing about me, idiot, save for my disgust for garbage like you.
I don't care about your life or your desires. I just want you to fuck off and die.
Your existence is a joke.
Why is it that trolling with extreme insults, such as this (you want Royce to fuck off and die? for that post? really?) considered acceptable?
And I don't mean "on other forums," and I'm not trying to downplay our moderation staff.
I mean why is this the seemingly standard response to, well, most anything in the games industry?
I don't think the "Internet Fuckwad" theory is strong enough to explain this.
You poor excuses for humans make sick with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou, self-congratulatory bullshit.
This insular hugbox is a fucking disgrace and disgruntled "progressive" trash like you are one of the main problems with current western civilization.
A pity, because this hugbox has more reviews, more games, more knowledge, and drops more money on charities than any of the websites damned or praised by gamersgate.
A significant fact you should note, is found upon the profiles of most everyone in here. You see, we have badges, age badges, for people who've been here for a certain amount of time. I myself joined PA in 2003 after many years of lurking. As have others. I've seen many a meme come and go, from ranger threads to forum battles.
What I'm trying to say here is that we're adults, many of us have kids, or support kids in our families, we look at gaming as not a hobby or personal release valve after work, but as first and foremost a treasured memory from our childhood, given to us by parents who've passed on, and is something we will become better at so we can pass it onto a new generation.
So when we see the death treats, the goatse's, the doxxing, we aren't looking at it as something happening in the "now," but something attacking what was is our "once was" and our "what will be."
Doritosgate is being brought up because its a cleaner depiction of the corruption you are right to criticize, and doesn't involved the battle between an allegedly unfaithful woman and a man too stupid to realize if he rags on his ex like that, no women will date him for fear of the same treatment.
Your battle for journalistic integrity in the arena you love is a righteous one, but don't use broken hearts as the basis of your battle cry.
You know nothing about me, idiot, save for my disgust for garbage like you.
I don't care about your life or your desires. I just want you to fuck off and die.
Your existence is a joke.
You know, that might have hurt my feelings last week.
But considering I just helped bury my father by hand, held cold weight of his lifeless corpse, and watched his face peek out from linens before we entombed him...
Kid, you ain't got shit on me.
Do you have a steam account? I would like to send you a copy of Mafia 2.
edit: Please do not ban this child, he must be forged anew in our crucibles, and made strong by our hammers. We can change him, we have the power, we have the technology, we have the class!
That is the implication, yes. That is why people think that is what you are implying.
I was trying to imply that gross improprieties in relationships shouldn't have some special privilege of not being talked about. In each of these cases, I see there as being good reason for the people around the victim to be aware that this happened.
See but one of these things is not like the other. Sesame Street taught us how to play this game.
Cheating is a gross impropriety in a relationship. The other things cause extensive physical, emotional, and psychological damage that reach far beyond what you are talking about with a breach of trust in a romantic relationship. They are not "gross improprieties." They are horrible, damaging crimes.
I don't know exactly what you are trying to do here with all of this and it's pretty off-topic anyway, but never say anything like this again.
Wait... what?
You're saying that cheating doesn't cause extensive physical, emotional and psychological damage? Unless you've been cheated on multiple times to the point that you're numb to it (in which case the damage is already done), it's a terrible thing to happen to you.
I daresay that cheating is one of the worst things that could ever happen to you if you're in a romantic relationship where you both openly profess your love for one another. Cheating ruins more lives than harassment over the Internet does. Honestly, I think there should be an online resource where you can figure out if someone is a known cheater. You'd save many people from wasting years of their lives on doomed relationships, prevent much heartbreak and curb the creation of broken families from the outset.
Luckily I've personally never been cheated on (as far as I know) but I've had to pick up the pieces of my mother when my father cheated on her repeatedly throughout their marriage, then left her with no prospects at 61 years old. Have you ever seen someone try to commit suicide by hypothermia? Yeah. Cheating hurts more than some of the most grievous physical wounds. I take extreme offense to those here trying to downplay the severity of cheating.
If I were cheated on, I'd tell the world too. Just because it isn't implicitly illegal doesn't shield you from the fallout that may come from such a betrayal. Personally, I can't see why someone would go to the lengths Gjioni has unless he was indeed cheated on. Whether or not you believe he was cheated on is neither here nor there. We all have already made our conclusions on that front. I'm not here to convince you one way or the other. I just want to raise my perspective on where this behaviour may be coming from.
I'm sorry to have dragged something up from so far back in the conversation but I'm getting caught up here and I just couldn't let this go without saying something. Cheating may not excuse harassment but there's no excuse for cheating. Let's not pretend that cheating isn't a terrible thing that no good person should have to experience.
Again, I'm sorry to derail. Please feel free to ignore this rant if it's no longer pertinent to the conversation. I just needed to say my piece.
Here, this is something I posted earlier.
Cheating can be many things. It can be a sign there's some form of co-dependancy issues in the relationship. It can be a sign that someone isn't happy sexually, but is afraid of losing the emotional part of the relationship. It can be a sign that someone feels trapped because of guilt, but goes elsewhere. It can be a sign that someone is amoral when it comes to their relationships and don't mind hurting their partner. It can be a sign that monogamous relationships aren't for someone and they just haven't figured that out yet. It can be a sign that someone is prone to make mistakes and is rather impulsive. It can be a sign that someone has a sex addiction and deals with that in unhealthy ways.
It is something that is a very personal thing that effects only those in that relationship, and it's not a given that in another relationship that person would take the same actions. It is a betrayal of trust, but only with the person involved.
And it is not in any way shape or form ok to air your relationship's dirty laundry because of something that says the relationship was broken in some capacity. It is not the same thing as being abusive. It CAN be abusive, but it can also be caused by abuse in the relationship.
What he did was in no way shape or form acceptable. He did not and does not own her. He should not be trying to control her after their relationship is over. That is not in any way justifiable in any situation. Their private lives were not his to share with the world over being cheated on.
No I don't.
+4
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
You poor excuses for humans make sick with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou, self-congratulatory bullshit.
This insular hugbox is a fucking disgrace and disgruntled "progressive" trash like you are one of the main problems with current western civilization.
If anything else, the thing I "like" about this current controversy is that it has shown that a significant portion of "gamers" are awful, terrible people.
@vsove has received death threats. Phil Fish has received death threats. Basically any woman in the industry at all receives death threats.
Why the hell is "be an incredible jerk, and wish death, rape, and boils upon people you disagree with," the seemingly normal response to anything mildly controversial in the video game industry?
Why do so many people do it in the first place? How can we stop them? How can we, as a community, distance ourselves from them?
None of this is acceptable behavior. It isn't acceptable to send graphic death threats when someone changes the UI of your MMO, it isn't acceptable to send death threats when you think some lady got favoritism from her boyfriend, it isn't acceptable to harass female writers into leaving the industry.
How do we, as a community, stop it?
This is something I'm curious about myself.
I've read a number of articles regarding harassment and toxicity (the one that springs to mind is Leigh Alexander's "But WHAT CAN BE DONE: Dos and Don’ts To Combat Online Sexism"). But one thing they all seem to have in common is that they are reactionary. It's suggestions for how to deal with harassment, toxicity, and shitty attitudes after they have happened. There's nothing I have seen that suggests a course of action for how to preemptively deal with these issues.
Actually if you want to know a solution, there is one.
You're actually posting in it. Ask Tube or the other adminstrators of this forum who changed this place around from being a really toxic place at times, to one that is highly welcoming of women, trans people and others. Nowhere is absolutely perfect of course, but I can't really think of a forum that has generally done a better job at actually removing the problematic elements as well as this one has.
Who would have ever guessed that a rules as simple as "don't be a dick" could make a place where people can discuss things without making the brain want to vomit?
Hell, look at a topic as problematic as this and all the civil discussion coming from PA folks about it. I can fervently disagree with people on the PA forums about plenty of stuff (not necessarily this topic, I'm not read up on it enough to have much to say about it), but rarely does anything stray into uncivil tones, and not for very long. Either people are decent enough to own up to their mistakes or leave the discussion, or the people running the boards kick them out of the discussion so they can't keep drumming up trouble for no reason.
And really, the only way to preempt horrible attitudes is purely and simply a matter of education. As long as you have people that are irrationally cruel and nasty towards others over awful prejudices, they're going to spout off and cause trouble over them. You can't stop them from doing it, short of getting them to understand why what they say is terrible and wrong.
there are a few really horrible, angry, antisocial creeps on the internet. i think using this fact to inform the broader culture of "gaming" or "internet" or "young american men" or whatever else is a huge mistake.
I had an extremely long and detailed response to this, but then my iPad ate it and I forgot it doesn't save drafts on this device. Suffice to say, this is wrong and "gamer" has an awful negative reputation on deserved grounds. If you don't believe me, look at the comments on games on youtube, on reviews that draw controversy and basically anywhere. Gamespot for example, has a review of GTA 5 written by a trans woman with 22,000 comments.
What do you think the majority of those comments are like? Most importantly, it's not an isolated incident by any stretch. It's a consistent terrible pattern of behavior that we should stop apologising for and start figuring out a way to fix. GamerGate may have finally destroyed any illusions that the gaming community wasn't filled with terrible people, but it was by no means the main thing that got us to this point at all.
We already knew the gaming community was filled with terrible people, but is it any more terrible or just as terrible as the groups that populate other entertainment and news sites? Can any online community with a mild barrier to entry boast civilization greater than what we see in ordinary youtube comments?
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
0
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Yeah that was not ever going to be productive.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
there are a few really horrible, angry, antisocial creeps on the internet. i think using this fact to inform the broader culture of "gaming" or "internet" or "young american men" or whatever else is a huge mistake.
I had an extremely long and detailed response to this, but then my iPad ate it and I forgot it doesn't save drafts on this device. Suffice to say, this is wrong and "gamer" has an awful negative reputation on deserved grounds. If you don't believe me, look at the comments on games on youtube, on reviews that draw controversy and basically anywhere. Gamespot for example, has a review of GTA 5 written by a trans woman with 22,000 comments.
What do you think the majority of those comments are like? Most importantly, it's not an isolated incident by any stretch. It's a consistent terrible pattern of behavior that we should stop apologising for and start figuring out a way to fix. GamerGate may have finally destroyed any illusions that the gaming community wasn't filled with terrible people, but it was by no means the main thing that got us to this point at all.
We already knew the gaming community was filled with terrible people, but is it any more terrible or just as terrible as the groups that populate other entertainment and news sites? Can any online community with a mild barrier to entry boast civilization greater than what we see in ordinary youtube comments?
I'm pretty certain death threats aren't part and parcel for other online communities, and websites, and things like Youtube
But, I'm not 100% certain and I'm definitely open to being wrong
Although, I kind of hope I'm not wrong, and that this craziness is confined just to one area
My sole hope is that it serves as a live demonstration of why most of the people in this thread have no faith in the gamergate movement, even if they do feel there are problems within games journalism.
+19
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Holy everloving fuck, I followed the link Zoe tweeted (it actually links to a blog I check mostly daily, so I would have seen it anyway), and
Fuck
A couple of days ago, embattled indie game designer Zoe Quinn embarrassed some of her biggest critics by posting screenshots she’d collected from a 4channer IRC channel, showing an assortment of hateful and duplicitous #GamerGaters literally conspiring to wreck her reputation and create the illusion of a vast grassroots uprising against alleged corruption in the gaming business.
Her critics, put on the defensive, tried their best to dismiss her screenshots as “cherry picked,” and a few even accused her of writing the very messages she screenshotted and posted. Oh, there might be a few bad apples in the bunch, some were willing to concede, but they were in the minority.
And then they pulled out what they thought was their trump card: the full chat log from the IRC channel #burgersandfries from when the Zoe Quinn “scandal” first erupted in mid-August up until September 6th. All anyone had to do, they suggested, was to read the log, and they would soon see that Quinn was presenting a distorted picture based on out-of-context, “cherry-picked” quotes.
Even a quick skim through the document demonstrates that Quinn’s screenshots are hardly cherry-picked; you can flip to literally any page in this long, long document and find evidence of egregious misogyny and outright malice. Look a little deeper and you can find discussions of doxxing and spamming and all sorts of other dirty tricks.
The name “Zoe” appears 4778 times in the document, more than once per page; by contrast, “Nathan” – the first name of the allegedly corrupt game journalist she allegedly slept with – appears only 108 times. The words “ethics” and “ethical” appear, collectively, only 146 times.
The 4channers express their hatred and disgust towards her; they express their glee at the thought of ruining her career; they fantasize about her being raped and killed. They wonder if all the harassment will drive her to suicide, and only the thought of 4chan getting bad publicity convinces some of them that this isn’t something they should hope for.
And then there is the ongoing discussion of her vagina [...]
It’s not clear how exactly the size or shape or smell of Quinn’s vagina relates to the high-minded issues of gaming ethics that the #GamerGaters are said to be concerned with.
I am not posting any quotes from the IRC logs because god damn, but it is pretty blatantly obvious that this is in no way about "ethics", when actually, it maybe should be
But probably not the kind of ethics that these guys want to talk about
It's really bizarre that they posted the whole chat log as their defense. Did they just honestly think no one would read it?
They even have an entirely rehearsed defense.
First they spam you with "But you made that up" or "Show me the proof!"
Then once you do they then spam "That's not all of us though, we're against X #notyourshield" or "So what, both sides are doing it!"
It's amazing to behold, because they don't seem to have caught on to how utterly obvious the astroturf smells.
yeah, I guess if we spread out efforts too thinly it's less effective. I do maintain a belief that the internet is a powerful tool for global change though, and accelerated change at that, but people continue to fail me continually in that aspect, which is really what's happened with this whole anti-feminism attack.
Most powerful and far-reaching communication tool ever created? Yeah, let's use it to attack people with progressive and inclusive views for daring to question our precious status quo.
This isn't true though, the internet creates an overabundance of information which makes it difficult to separate signal from noise. It's also ironic that you talk about a global world, but then lament that it doesn't pander to your western beliefs.
Is a move towards gender equality and inclusivity really 'pandering'? Or is it about making our society better for everyone in it?
Correct, changing views on the basis of social/political pressure would be "pandering", which you are currently in the process of advocating. In a global context, western feminism attempting to dictate how women should be treated, for example in Cambodia or even Japan, has overtones of imperialism.
Gonna cry me a whole new great lake if people get all sad about their culture's chronic abuse of women being changed.
I feel this way when people say that we should respect Middle Eastern beliefs about women. Um, no thanks.
You poor excuses for humans make sick with your self-righteous, holier-than-thou, self-congratulatory bullshit.
This insular hugbox is a fucking disgrace and disgruntled "progressive" trash like you are one of the main problems with current western civilization.
A pity, because this hugbox has more reviews, more games, more knowledge, and drops more money on charities than any of the websites damned or praised by gamersgate.
A significant fact you should note, is found upon the profiles of most everyone in here. You see, we have badges, age badges, for people who've been here for a certain amount of time. I myself joined PA in 2003 after many years of lurking. As have others. I've seen many a meme come and go, from ranger threads to forum battles.
What I'm trying to say here is that we're adults, many of us have kids, or support kids in our families, we look at gaming as not a hobby or personal release valve after work, but as first and foremost a treasured memory from our childhood, given to us by parents who've passed on, and is something we will become better at so we can pass it onto a new generation.
So when we see the death treats, the goatse's, the doxxing, we aren't looking at it as something happening in the "now," but something attacking what was is our "once was" and our "what will be."
Doritosgate is being brought up because its a cleaner depiction of the corruption you are right to criticize, and doesn't involved the battle between an allegedly unfaithful woman and a man too stupid to realize if he rags on his ex like that, no women will date him for fear of the same treatment.
Your battle for journalistic integrity in the arena you love is a righteous one, but don't use broken hearts as the basis of your battle cry.
You know nothing about me, idiot, save for my disgust for garbage like you.
I don't care about your life or your desires. I just want you to fuck off and die.
Your existence is a joke.
Why is it that trolling with extreme insults, such as this (you want Royce to fuck off and die? for that post? really?) considered acceptable?
And I don't mean "on other forums," and I'm not trying to downplay our moderation staff.
I mean why is this the seemingly standard response to, well, most anything in the games industry?
I don't think the "Internet Fuckwad" theory is strong enough to explain this.
Our large, semi-anonymous internet environment means that it's a good way to get attention; in the larger, 'real' world, continuously acting like a jerk to people around you has consequences and for the most part for the internet-hate-machine folks that we're talking about, it doesn't.
Like, the dude currently trolling our thread might get banned, and if he does he's gonna just keep going about whatever it is he does with his week. Back to twitter, move on to another forum, whatever. The attention you get out of being a flagrant jerk gives a lot of people a rush.
In these particular circumstances that just dovetails with the fact that lots of young men are becoming conscious (if only implicitly) of the fact that their privileged position in our letter slice of society is eroding. Dude probably can't even articulate why he's angry about it, in the end.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Posts
If I ever become so spineless as to make shitty pathetic passive aggressive attempts at insults and congratulating myself for having a closed-minded myopic opinions, I'll rename myself "vsove"
hugbox is a term used by awful trash nerds to refer disparagingly to communities of people with aspergers so you should, uh, probably avoid that
(sorry)
I'm not really sure. I feel like the internet has made us take a few steps back in a lot of directions, because its so easy to find people who will backup any world view.
It doesn't matter whether we think their views and actions are terrible, what matters is that they have a community that thinks their views and actions are right and proper.
ISIS is running a social media campaign to attract people to give their lives up for jihad against the west, and its apparently working.
If we can't stop people from throwing away their lives for fundamentalist Islam, how do you stop people from practicing and perpetuating simple misogyny?
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
So you come here and make an account not to have a discussion, but to spout off insults? And you're saying WE'RE whining about stupid shit? You're spending your time going from website to website to find people who disagree with you and yelling at them. If you have an argument, make it. That's how adults convince people of things.
I want a box that just gives hugs.
A pity, because this hugbox has more reviews, more games, more knowledge, and drops more money on charities than any of the websites damned or praised by gamersgate.
A significant fact you should note, is found upon the profiles of most everyone in here. You see, we have badges, age badges, for people who've been here for a certain amount of time. I myself joined PA in 2003 after many years of lurking. As have others. I've seen many a meme come and go, from ranger threads to forum battles.
What I'm trying to say here is that we're adults, many of us have kids, or support kids in our families, we look at gaming as not a hobby or personal release valve after work, but as first and foremost a treasured memory from our childhood, given to us by parents who've passed on, and is something we will become better at so we can pass it onto a new generation.
So when we see the death treats, the goatse's, the doxxing, we aren't looking at it as something happening in the "now," but something attacking what was is our "once was" and our "what will be."
Doritosgate is being brought up because its a cleaner depiction of the corruption you are right to criticize, and doesn't involved the battle between an allegedly unfaithful woman and a man too stupid to realize if he rags on his ex like that, no women will date him for fear of the same treatment.
Your battle for journalistic integrity in the arena you love is a righteous one, but don't use broken hearts as the basis of your battle cry.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Framing it as "a decent person" totally doesn't make you sanctimonius fucktrash.
Personally, I hope to one day become a Social Justice Paladin.
Well, better rename yourself then.
Actually if you want to know a solution, there is one.
You're actually posting in it. Ask Tube or the other adminstrators of this forum who changed this place around from being a really toxic place at times, to one that is highly welcoming of women, trans people and others. Nowhere is absolutely perfect of course, but I can't really think of a forum that has generally done a better job at actually removing the problematic elements as well as this one has.
Fuck
I am not posting any quotes from the IRC logs because god damn, but it is pretty blatantly obvious that this is in no way about "ethics", when actually, it maybe should be
But probably not the kind of ethics that these guys want to talk about
....sorry for make a no-content post policing the thread :B
Come into the box, and our professionals will give ya an earnest hug. We're open to folk of all races, genders, shapes or nationalities.
Plz leave a tip, and don't forget to vote!
Edit Oh, dang I didn't know hugbox was a thing
Yo, definitely want to echo this.
When people (you) do stupid shit, yes, they get called stupid.
Idiots are beyond convincing. I'm here to laugh at you.
But why are you guys even engaging with him? Just like report, not like he saying much of anything.
You are so boring
Wait... what?
You're saying that cheating doesn't cause extensive physical, emotional and psychological damage? Unless you've been cheated on multiple times to the point that you're numb to it (in which case the damage is already done), it's a terrible thing to happen to you.
I daresay that cheating is one of the worst things that could ever happen to you if you're in a romantic relationship where you both openly profess your love for one another. Cheating ruins more lives than harassment over the Internet does. Honestly, I think there should be an online resource where you can figure out if someone is a known cheater. You'd save many people from wasting years of their lives on doomed relationships, prevent much heartbreak and curb the creation of broken families from the outset.
Luckily I've personally never been cheated on (as far as I know) but I've had to pick up the pieces of my mother when my father cheated on her repeatedly throughout their marriage, then left her with no prospects at 61 years old. Have you ever seen someone try to commit suicide by hypothermia? Yeah. Cheating hurts more than some of the most grievous physical wounds. I take extreme offense to those here trying to downplay the severity of cheating.
If I were cheated on, I'd tell the world too. Just because it isn't implicitly illegal doesn't shield you from the fallout that may come from such a betrayal. Personally, I can't see why someone would go to the lengths Gjioni has unless he was indeed cheated on. Whether or not you believe he was cheated on is neither here nor there. We all have already made our conclusions on that front. I'm not here to convince you one way or the other. I just want to raise my perspective on where this behaviour may be coming from.
I'm sorry to have dragged something up from so far back in the conversation but I'm getting caught up here and I just couldn't let this go without saying something. Cheating may not excuse harassment but there's no excuse for cheating. Let's not pretend that cheating isn't a terrible thing that no good person should have to experience.
Again, I'm sorry to derail. Please feel free to ignore this rant if it's no longer pertinent to the conversation. I just needed to say my piece.
@rchou What is your argument concerning gamersgate, separate from Zoe Quinn and her free games and her cyborg implants?
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
You know nothing about me, idiot, save for my disgust for garbage like you.
I don't care about your life or your desires. I just want you to fuck off and die.
Your existence is a joke.
It's really bizarre that they posted the whole chat log as their defense. Did they just honestly think no one would read it?
Yeah it's great to need validation from others and society, you're so strong.
I believe they thought it would make Zoe's evidence inadmissible.
Thus cementing their grasp of law as being around that of Michael Scott.
Is game journalism perfect? Of course not, but that's a far cry from "all games journalism is corrupt".
If that's where the movement wanted to go, they could've easily gotten there with no problem.
I've been cheated on. I still wouldn't spread that news out to the internet. Telling my close, personal friends is one thing. Telling everyone is just putting the other person is the crosshairs, which isn't a very adult thing to do. I can understand the anger that would drive someone to do that, but I certainly don't condone it.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
Why is it that trolling with extreme insults, such as this (you want Royce to fuck off and die? for that post? really?) considered acceptable?
And I don't mean "on other forums," and I'm not trying to downplay our moderation staff.
I mean why is this the seemingly standard response to, well, most anything in the games industry?
I don't think the "Internet Fuckwad" theory is strong enough to explain this.
You know, that might have hurt my feelings last week.
But considering I just helped bury my father by hand, held cold weight of his lifeless corpse, and watched his face peek out from linens before we entombed him...
Kid, you ain't got shit on me.
Do you have a steam account? I would like to send you a copy of Mafia 2.
edit: Please do not ban this child, he must be forged anew in our crucibles, and made strong by our hammers. We can change him, we have the power, we have the technology, we have the class!
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Here, this is something I posted earlier.
Cheating can be many things. It can be a sign there's some form of co-dependancy issues in the relationship. It can be a sign that someone isn't happy sexually, but is afraid of losing the emotional part of the relationship. It can be a sign that someone feels trapped because of guilt, but goes elsewhere. It can be a sign that someone is amoral when it comes to their relationships and don't mind hurting their partner. It can be a sign that monogamous relationships aren't for someone and they just haven't figured that out yet. It can be a sign that someone is prone to make mistakes and is rather impulsive. It can be a sign that someone has a sex addiction and deals with that in unhealthy ways.
It is something that is a very personal thing that effects only those in that relationship, and it's not a given that in another relationship that person would take the same actions. It is a betrayal of trust, but only with the person involved.
And it is not in any way shape or form ok to air your relationship's dirty laundry because of something that says the relationship was broken in some capacity. It is not the same thing as being abusive. It CAN be abusive, but it can also be caused by abuse in the relationship.
What he did was in no way shape or form acceptable. He did not and does not own her. He should not be trying to control her after their relationship is over. That is not in any way justifiable in any situation. Their private lives were not his to share with the world over being cheated on.
Who would have ever guessed that a rules as simple as "don't be a dick" could make a place where people can discuss things without making the brain want to vomit?
Hell, look at a topic as problematic as this and all the civil discussion coming from PA folks about it. I can fervently disagree with people on the PA forums about plenty of stuff (not necessarily this topic, I'm not read up on it enough to have much to say about it), but rarely does anything stray into uncivil tones, and not for very long. Either people are decent enough to own up to their mistakes or leave the discussion, or the people running the boards kick them out of the discussion so they can't keep drumming up trouble for no reason.
And really, the only way to preempt horrible attitudes is purely and simply a matter of education. As long as you have people that are irrationally cruel and nasty towards others over awful prejudices, they're going to spout off and cause trouble over them. You can't stop them from doing it, short of getting them to understand why what they say is terrible and wrong.
Alas
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
We already knew the gaming community was filled with terrible people, but is it any more terrible or just as terrible as the groups that populate other entertainment and news sites? Can any online community with a mild barrier to entry boast civilization greater than what we see in ordinary youtube comments?
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I'm pretty certain death threats aren't part and parcel for other online communities, and websites, and things like Youtube
But, I'm not 100% certain and I'm definitely open to being wrong
Although, I kind of hope I'm not wrong, and that this craziness is confined just to one area
My sole hope is that it serves as a live demonstration of why most of the people in this thread have no faith in the gamergate movement, even if they do feel there are problems within games journalism.
They even have an entirely rehearsed defense.
First they spam you with "But you made that up" or "Show me the proof!"
Then once you do they then spam "That's not all of us though, we're against X #notyourshield" or "So what, both sides are doing it!"
It's amazing to behold, because they don't seem to have caught on to how utterly obvious the astroturf smells.
I feel this way when people say that we should respect Middle Eastern beliefs about women. Um, no thanks.
Our large, semi-anonymous internet environment means that it's a good way to get attention; in the larger, 'real' world, continuously acting like a jerk to people around you has consequences and for the most part for the internet-hate-machine folks that we're talking about, it doesn't.
Like, the dude currently trolling our thread might get banned, and if he does he's gonna just keep going about whatever it is he does with his week. Back to twitter, move on to another forum, whatever. The attention you get out of being a flagrant jerk gives a lot of people a rush.
In these particular circumstances that just dovetails with the fact that lots of young men are becoming conscious (if only implicitly) of the fact that their privileged position in our letter slice of society is eroding. Dude probably can't even articulate why he's angry about it, in the end.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
you know how hollowing in dark souls works
it's kind of like that but significantly less interesting