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[GUST] Games. Atelier Ryza is now out, post your opinions here.

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Posts

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    I forgot how fucked getting the rich ending in totori is.

  • Mr. AlienMr. Alien Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    I forgot how fucked getting the rich ending in totori is.

    I think it's the only ending where you're kinda required to do an "exploit" to get it without doing multiple runs.

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Mr. Alien wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    I forgot how fucked getting the rich ending in totori is.

    I think it's the only ending where you're kinda required to do an "exploit" to get it without doing multiple runs.

    The annoying thing is that the 'exploit' is fixed in Totori (the cost of spring cups has been increased significantly).

    The thing about it that annoys me specifically is that the equivalent ending in Rorona was basically an 'advanced alchemy 101' course because there were some very good non-monotonous solutions to getting the needed amount of money.

    There is no equivalent thing in Totori. None of the crafted items sell for enough to make alchemizing a solution possible, and the gathering items aren't worth enough either. My container hovers at 90% full and selling literally everything I have only nets me a few tens of thousands of the 500k that I need.

  • Mr. AlienMr. Alien Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    Mr. Alien wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    I forgot how fucked getting the rich ending in totori is.

    I think it's the only ending where you're kinda required to do an "exploit" to get it without doing multiple runs.

    The annoying thing is that the 'exploit' is fixed in Totori (the cost of spring cups has been increased significantly).

    The thing about it that annoys me specifically is that the equivalent ending in Rorona was basically an 'advanced alchemy 101' course because there were some very good non-monotonous solutions to getting the needed amount of money.

    There is no equivalent thing in Totori. None of the crafted items sell for enough to make alchemizing a solution possible, and the gathering items aren't worth enough either. My container hovers at 90% full and selling literally everything I have only nets me a few tens of thousands of the 500k that I need.

    What? That's not the exploit I was talking about. In fact, the exploit only works on Totori.

    You don't need exploits for Rorona. You just need to get those gold pies requests.

    LD50
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Mr. Alien wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    Mr. Alien wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    I forgot how fucked getting the rich ending in totori is.

    I think it's the only ending where you're kinda required to do an "exploit" to get it without doing multiple runs.

    The annoying thing is that the 'exploit' is fixed in Totori (the cost of spring cups has been increased significantly).

    The thing about it that annoys me specifically is that the equivalent ending in Rorona was basically an 'advanced alchemy 101' course because there were some very good non-monotonous solutions to getting the needed amount of money.

    There is no equivalent thing in Totori. None of the crafted items sell for enough to make alchemizing a solution possible, and the gathering items aren't worth enough either. My container hovers at 90% full and selling literally everything I have only nets me a few tens of thousands of the 500k that I need.

    What? That's not the exploit I was talking about. In fact, the exploit only works on Totori.

    You don't need exploits for Rorona. You just need to get those gold pies requests.

    Sorry, I meant to say Totori +. They significantly raised the price of the spring cup between the non-plus and plus versions of the game, so much so that you won't make back the cost of a wholesaled cup without gaming all of the traits that decrease price. Even then, the cost of the cup will be higher than what it was in the original version of the game, which means you spend even more time opening the damn things.

  • Mr. AlienMr. Alien Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    Mr. Alien wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    Mr. Alien wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    I forgot how fucked getting the rich ending in totori is.

    I think it's the only ending where you're kinda required to do an "exploit" to get it without doing multiple runs.

    The annoying thing is that the 'exploit' is fixed in Totori (the cost of spring cups has been increased significantly).

    The thing about it that annoys me specifically is that the equivalent ending in Rorona was basically an 'advanced alchemy 101' course because there were some very good non-monotonous solutions to getting the needed amount of money.

    There is no equivalent thing in Totori. None of the crafted items sell for enough to make alchemizing a solution possible, and the gathering items aren't worth enough either. My container hovers at 90% full and selling literally everything I have only nets me a few tens of thousands of the 500k that I need.

    What? That's not the exploit I was talking about. In fact, the exploit only works on Totori.

    You don't need exploits for Rorona. You just need to get those gold pies requests.

    Sorry, I meant to say Totori +. They significantly raised the price of the spring cup between the non-plus and plus versions of the game, so much so that you won't make back the cost of a wholesaled cup without gaming all of the traits that decrease price. Even then, the cost of the cup will be higher than what it was in the original version of the game, which means you spend even more time opening the damn things.

    Hmm, don't remember having a problem with that trick though even when I played it the first time on Totori+. It's not just for getting money. You also get your endgame traits from it.

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Totori is 100% complete (platinum get). I've installed Meruru and booted it up. Man, the performance difference between these two games is staggering. I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the voicework this time though.

  • OrphaneOrphane All that remains Registered User regular
    Spent my entire night playing Ryza

    I skipped over the last few Atelier games so I don't know what kind of iterations they made to combat/crafting until Ryza but the crafting and combat are both interesting

    Being able to save specific items and reuse them until you run out of core charges and have to consume items seems nice, but out of habit I haven't tried refilling charges by consuming items yet

    I am not entirely sure how I feel about the combat system yet as someone who's mostly used to purely turn based RPGs

    vagrant_windsDonnicton
  • DonnictonDonnicton Hey it's me, your old pal Movie Sonic - let me in. LEMME IN. Registered User regular
    UPS driver decided knocking is for people who actually care about their job, so I missed the delivery. Just as well, I should really just buckle down and work on DQ8 instead of leaving another game unfinished.

  • Mr. AlienMr. Alien Registered User regular
    Oh boy, we have the usual "get this material we don't tell you where to get it from to synthesize this required item" shit that plagued Lulua.

    Back to Outer Worlds.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    .
    Mr. Alien wrote: »
    Oh boy, we have the usual "get this material we don't tell you where to get it from to synthesize this required item" shit that plagued Lulua.

    Back to Outer Worlds.

    My favorite incident of that in Lulua was the random plant that only came from one corner of one early game area, and you didn't even have a 100% chance of getting it. So I had to look up where it was. Then I strip mined the area and didn't get it. So I strip mined it again, and still didn't get it. So I looked it up again. Then I strip mined the area a third time and got like 10.

    I want to like your games, Gust. I want to go back to the magical Mana Khemia times. But you make it so hard.

  • Mr. AlienMr. Alien Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    .
    Mr. Alien wrote: »
    Oh boy, we have the usual "get this material we don't tell you where to get it from to synthesize this required item" shit that plagued Lulua.

    Back to Outer Worlds.

    My favorite incident of that in Lulua was the random plant that only came from one corner of one early game area, and you didn't even have a 100% chance of getting it. So I had to look up where it was. Then I strip mined the area and didn't get it. So I strip mined it again, and still didn't get it. So I looked it up again. Then I strip mined the area a third time and got like 10.

    I want to like your games, Gust. I want to go back to the magical Mana Khemia times. But you make it so hard.

    Just one of the many reasons why I never finished Lulua.

    What a stain on the beloved Arland trilogy.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited October 30
    Mr. Alien wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    .
    Mr. Alien wrote: »
    Oh boy, we have the usual "get this material we don't tell you where to get it from to synthesize this required item" shit that plagued Lulua.

    Back to Outer Worlds.

    My favorite incident of that in Lulua was the random plant that only came from one corner of one early game area, and you didn't even have a 100% chance of getting it. So I had to look up where it was. Then I strip mined the area and didn't get it. So I strip mined it again, and still didn't get it. So I looked it up again. Then I strip mined the area a third time and got like 10.

    I want to like your games, Gust. I want to go back to the magical Mana Khemia times. But you make it so hard.

    Just one of the many reasons why I never finished Lulua.

    What a stain on the beloved Arland trilogy.

    I actually finished Lulua, which makes it only the third Atelier game I actually reached the credits for in the entire 3D era thus far (Meruru and Rorona Plus are the other two, and I don't know if I should count the latter since I definitely didn't do any of the post-game shit), but I think that's only because it got so trivial and stupid that I just ran to the last boss and kicked its face in, which Escha/Logy and Shallie stacked too much bullshit and cutscenes got so fucking dense that I just said fuck it and was done with them. It could also be because it felt that much shorter and smaller, so I wouldn't be surprised if I was sick of it 5 hours which let me finish it before it reached critical disgust.

    ArcTangent on
  • DonnictonDonnicton Hey it's me, your old pal Movie Sonic - let me in. LEMME IN. Registered User regular
    edited October 30
    I finished the Arland and Dusk trilogies but I almost didn't in the case of Dusk, it got so preachy I was 110% done with it about midway through Shallie - especially how Keithgriff in particular devolved into an insufferable mouthpiece for how totes woke the writer is. (Marion waifu tho)

    I'm completely ready to go back to the basic saccharin slice of life Atelier.

    Donnicton on
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited October 30
    Donnicton wrote: »
    I finished the Arland and Dusk trilogies but I almost didn't in the case of Dusk, it got so preachy I was 110% done with it about midway through Shallie - especially how Keithgriff in particular devolved into an insufferable mouthpiece for how totes woke the writer is. (Marion waifu tho)

    I'm completely ready to go back to the basic saccharin slice of life Atelier.

    My brother from another mother. God, I hated him so much. The defining moment of Ayesha for me was after saving her sister by killing some kind of monstrous god-being who kidnapped and brainjacked her, Ayesha goes "So, uh, what was that thing?" And Keith's response is "You're too stupid to be told anything. Go home and bake pies like a good girl." And her response is "Yeah. I like pies. That sounds great!" I made it through like half of one of the new character quest things after that before I was too disgusted to finish or run out the clock.

    It would maybe be stomachable if at any point any character called him out on being a patronizing pretentious asshole, but no. They fawn over him and how brilliant he is for saying supercilious shit like "there might be a negative impact to doing something. Ever think of that? Huh? Huh!? Yeah, I bet you feel stupid now."

    ArcTangent on
  • Mr. AlienMr. Alien Registered User regular
    some kind of monstrous god-being who kidnapped and brainjacked her

    Well, I don't think you quite understand the plot there.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    No, I got it. It kidnapped her to preserve her because its mission is to save everything, but is also malfunctioning and crazy, so accidentally made her part of its interface too. It's just plant Brainiac.

  • Mr. AlienMr. Alien Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    No, I got it. It kidnapped her to preserve her because its mission is to save everything, but is also malfunctioning and crazy, so accidentally made her part of its interface too. It's just plant Brainiac.

    Not exactly right, but close enough, I suppose.

  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    I'm a fan of both the Arland and Dusk trilogies, and still believe to this day that Escha&Logy and Shallie had some of the best combat in the entire series. I got through Sophie but Firis was a legitimate slog, and I never played the third Mysterious game... even though I owned it for months. I think those games proved to me that while open gameplay and exploring is a fun part of the Atelier series, you need goals. And the goals are way more motivating if they're personal... every protagonist wanted to be an alchemist, every one wanted to get better, but their motivation was what drives most people playing. Without that, you're left relying on the Alchemy and Combat to drive the game, and that has always been hit or miss in the series.

    IMO for the last handful of game generations, the Atelier series has been carried by the social and personal story aspects of the games, and those have suffered lately, while the Alchemy and Combat hasn't arguably improved. I've been hoping Ryza goes back to either giving us good motivation for the MC's goals or at the very least shake up the Alchemy and Combat enough where there's something else to latch onto.

    wbee62u815wj.png
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Basically most Atelier games boiled down to the alchemist going 'I need to become a powerful alchemist to help', whether it was family or a village or even just a shop, it was to help others. The Mysterious trilogy seemed to have protagonists that were mostly 'I'm becoming an alchemist to help ME', and that selfish nature doesn't make for great motivation, and doesn't really get you that empathetic with the person you're playing.

    wbee62u815wj.png
  • Mr. AlienMr. Alien Registered User regular
    edited October 30
    Quiotu wrote: »
    Basically most Atelier games boiled down to the alchemist going 'I need to become a powerful alchemist to help', whether it was family or a village or even just a shop, it was to help others. The Mysterious trilogy seemed to have protagonists that were mostly 'I'm becoming an alchemist to help ME', and that selfish nature doesn't make for great motivation, and doesn't really get you that empathetic with the person you're playing.

    Ryza is like that too, unfortunately.

    Mr. Alien on
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited October 30
    Quiotu wrote: »
    I'm a fan of both the Arland and Dusk trilogies, and still believe to this day that Escha&Logy and Shallie had some of the best combat in the entire series. I got through Sophie but Firis was a legitimate slog, and I never played the third Mysterious game... even though I owned it for months. I think those games proved to me that while open gameplay and exploring is a fun part of the Atelier series, you need goals. And the goals are way more motivating if they're personal... every protagonist wanted to be an alchemist, every one wanted to get better, but their motivation was what drives most people playing. Without that, you're left relying on the Alchemy and Combat to drive the game, and that has always been hit or miss in the series.

    IMO for the last handful of game generations, the Atelier series has been carried by the social and personal story aspects of the games, and those have suffered lately, while the Alchemy and Combat hasn't arguably improved. I've been hoping Ryza goes back to either giving us good motivation for the MC's goals or at the very least shake up the Alchemy and Combat enough where there's something else to latch onto.

    I'll agree with the combat part. It's the closest that the recent games have gotten to Mana Khemia's engine, but still does a bunch of things stupidly/wrong that kneecap it a bit. Not enough to still not be mostly fun, but enough that it makes me shake my fist and ask "Why could you just not fucking do what you did before, but without the frame rate problems?" To which it responds by fucking up some more camera angles and movements, and blinding me with yet another goddamned strobe flash 'transition.'

    The real saving grace for me for both was the on-demand ability to spawn a boss. Something that actually provided a challenge and gave you a genuine reward. That was especially important in E&L because after the first few chapters, I was completing the main objectives while still in the carry-over period from the previous chapter, and finishing the entire board with entire months to spare. Of course, that then gave me overpowered weapons and materials, which made the main part of the game even more of a joke, but as long as I could spawn a new, harder boss that provided a challenge, there was still room to improve and refine. Until I reached the end of the game and hit the ceiling, right as it was doing the traditional Atelier thing of taking the story from "we need to save the apple tree because goddamned do I love pies so much" to "I just invented a magic rock that rewrites reality, creates life from nothing, and has a pleasant pine scent, to stop the apocalypse machine that was about to erase all life as we know it."

    Shallie also had some of the most obnoxious alchemy in the series, and I'll pin that entirely on maintaining the obnoxious need to hoard fucking everything that the 3D ones introduced without any kind of duplication/restocking mechanic that band-aided it, resulting in you having to make the same basic Alchemy Yeasts, Zettels, Powdered Glass, Supplements, etc etc dozens upon dozens of times.

    ArcTangent on
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Yeah. I really liked Escha & Logy but it feels like the games that came after kind of backslid from that.

  • Mr. AlienMr. Alien Registered User regular
    Oof, all those reviews saying that Ryza yet again has lackluster story and characters. And filler quests as well. In an already short game.

    Guess I won't finish it.

    And all those fanboys who complain back about people complaining about the lackluster PC port. Sad.
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Yeah. I really liked Escha & Logy but it feels like the games that came after kind of backslid from that.

    E&L just has a less interesting story than characters compared to Ayesha. All I want when playing the game is to know what happened to her.

    Could've taken the story in a more interesting route, but Gust gotta have their usual feel good narrative.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited October 30
    Well, I don't really play the games for story too much moreso the mechanics.

    And E&L had a good mix of fun combat and alchemy stuff with a lot of stuff like duping and such to make things less obnoxious.

    That said I also liked the E&L cast the most so there is that too.

    Dragkonias on
  • DonnictonDonnicton Hey it's me, your old pal Movie Sonic - let me in. LEMME IN. Registered User regular
    E&L especially had some potentially really nice lore they could have explored but they kept waffling too much between the Dusk cataclysm plot undercurrents and the Atelier slice of life aspect and never really committed, so it all felt like a waste. My favorite part of the game is one of the late game reveals where
    They reach the edge of the known map and find that everything beyond it is dead.

    There was so much they could have done with that but didn't.

  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    edited November 1
    I'm hearing mixed reviews about Ryza. It's definitely an improvement from the Mysterious trilogy, but for me that's really a low bar, so the question is whether they got it even remotely close to the Dusk trilogy. I'll still probably give it a look, but I have a pretty big backlog, and will probably catch up a bit before I grab it.

    Part of me is a little concerned for Gust now, because if they can't get Atelier back on track and start getting more innovative... I mean currently there isn't much for Gust to latch onto anymore. Their only other project at the moment is the Fairy Tale video game adaptation, and I have NO idea if that's coming to the West.

    Quiotu on
    wbee62u815wj.png
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited November 1
    Quiotu wrote: »
    I'm hearing mixed reviews about Ryza. It's definitely an improvement from the Mysterious trilogy, but for me that's really a low bar, so the question is whether they got it even remotely close to the Dusk trilogy. I'll still probably give it a look, but I have a pretty big backlog, and will probably catch up a bit before I grab it.

    Watched someone streaming it for a bit a couple nights back and was very unimpressed. The alchemy seems overcomplicated and obnoxious. It's like doing an impromptu sphere grid thing from FFX where you get limited number of ingredients (increasing as you level), and each sphere has its own set of effects. But you can also evolve them on the fly by activating certain spheres, which resets everything while maintaining all previous stuff, and transports you to the new item's sphere grid. And then you can also basically sell ingredients to get a second form of currency that lets you add more ingredients to already finished things I think? It was confusing and the dude didn't seem to understand it well either, so probably one of those things that's useless until the last 2% of the game.

    The battle engine is really idiotic, but especially when it completely covers the entire screen with menus so you can't even see a fucking thing despite all the screaming constantly going on in the background. And holy fuck, is every fight a cacophony of noise. Your party members are constantly auto-attacking, most of the time doing multi-hit things, and every single hit makes the enemy squeak like a damn dog toy.

    And then there's the gathering. Seems like it would be the easiest thing to not fuck up, but they've gone with "if it's more complicated and tedious, it'll be more rewarding!" You have a bunch of different tools available, and which one you use determines what materials you get, and you have to manually choose which to use. So no longer do you just walk up to a rock until a button prompt comes up, then press the button. A prompt comes up, but if you have a tool that can't be used there, it'll be X'ed out, so you have to open up the menu, navigate to one of the right tools, select the tool, and then hit the button. What was previously a mindless one-button process now often requires like... 4-5. And god help you if the area has rocks, crystals, trees, AND bugs, (and whatever else), because you're going to be doing that shit for every single gathering spot, or doing multiple laps around the area with each different tool equipped.

    ArcTangent on
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