I tried this game out, and it didn't ring with me the same way previous games in the series did. I loved the FUCK out of Ar Tonelico 2, and Qoga, despite the odd change in how gameplay was done, was pretty decent. In my opinion, not only were the character models of Nosurge ugly (and they used these instead of drawn portraits for cut-scenes why?), but the gameplay felt pretty dumbed down.
I mean come on, in Ar Tonelico 2, you had like, 5 things to be aware of: Vanguard Health, Reyvateil health, and their MP, Replekia, and the Synch gauge. All you have to worry about in Nosurge is just the Reyvateil's HP, and there's only one of them in battle ever.... sigh.
Like, the cosmospheres are on par, since they naturally deal with the whacky misadventures inside the human psyche, and the music is definitely on par with what the series is probably most renown for... but it just didn't click with me.
I tried this game out, and it didn't ring with me the same way previous games in the series did. I loved the FUCK out of Ar Tonelico 2, and Qoga, despite the odd change in how gameplay was done, was pretty decent. In my opinion, not only were the character models of Nosurge ugly (and they used these instead of drawn portraits for cut-scenes why?), but the gameplay felt pretty dumbed down.
I mean come on, in Ar Tonelico 2, you had like, 5 things to be aware of: Vanguard Health, Reyvateil health, and their MP, Replekia, and the Synch gauge. All you have to worry about in Nosurge is just the Reyvateil's HP, and there's only one of them in battle ever.... sigh.
Like, the cosmospheres are on par, since they naturally deal with the whacky misadventures inside the human psyche, and the music is definitely on par with what the series is probably most renown for... but it just didn't click with me.
It's the opposite for me. There is something about the art style I really like, and I'm fine with the gameplay. It's the structure of the plot that is souring me on the game.
I'm continuing on though! Even as I roll my eyes as the story goes on. Being the 4th (5th?) game in the series, I'll see it thru
I tried this game out, and it didn't ring with me the same way previous games in the series did. I loved the FUCK out of Ar Tonelico 2, and Qoga, despite the odd change in how gameplay was done, was pretty decent. In my opinion, not only were the character models of Nosurge ugly (and they used these instead of drawn portraits for cut-scenes why?), but the gameplay felt pretty dumbed down.
I mean come on, in Ar Tonelico 2, you had like, 5 things to be aware of: Vanguard Health, Reyvateil health, and their MP, Replekia, and the Synch gauge. All you have to worry about in Nosurge is just the Reyvateil's HP, and there's only one of them in battle ever.... sigh.
Like, the cosmospheres are on par, since they naturally deal with the whacky misadventures inside the human psyche, and the music is definitely on par with what the series is probably most renown for... but it just didn't click with me.
This series changes quite a bit with each game, so you shouldn't really expect much similar. You got your Song Magic, you got your Cosmosphere, and everything else is experimental, especially the combat.
The combat looks like they were going for a fast paced, combo centric version of AT2. It's not as good as its counterpart, but later on being able to destroy 25+ waves of enemies feels oddly satisfying as well. Much like Atelier, the priority isn't the combat, even though they try to spice it up each time.
As for not using stills for the dialogue anymore, that's just the engine they're using now. I'm used to it because I play the Atelier series, and it's been like this for the entire Dusk trilogy. It's just a change... I get it might lose a bit of the visual novel feel without the stills, but that's a minor issue for me.
The common thread in the combat systems for the Ar tonelico series, and by extension Ar nosurge is the idea of protecting the reyvateils. AT2 still feels like it hit the mark on that concept the best with you shielding the reyvateils with your body, taking damage for them unless you failed miserably. There were also the talk scenes where the reyvateils complain if they got hit badly in a fight (Cloche really chewed you out for that) and what they reyvateils said as they got KO'd. As an example, early in the game if Luca gets KO'd she'll whimper 'I trusted you!'
The Dusk series in the Atelier franchise got rid of the static portraits, but they did make those scenes a lot more dynamic. They had character models and they used them instead of just talking heads, which is what Ar nosurge did instead...
It's the opposite for me. There is something about the art style I really like, and I'm fine with the gameplay. It's the structure of the plot that is souring me on the game.
I'm continuing on though! Even as I roll my eyes as the story goes on. Being the 4th (5th?) game in the series, I'll see it thru
Though I don't get why you're so hung up with the energy problems in both games. In AT2,
the Rim was never designed to be an inhabitable structure and instead was planned to be dropped as soon as the Second Tower was completed, so what happens with the land collapsing there is just a natural consequence of that and Raki halving Sol Marta's energy output due to Shurelia suspending the First Tower in AT1. And in fact, aside of a very small part of it, the entire Rim was dropped in the AT3 light novel between not being necessary anymore and the fact that Frelia needed the energy she was spending on its maintenance for other purposes.
As for the events of Ar nosurge,
it's stated that they need to drop part of the land in order to minimize the damage to the people living in Sharlanoia before they shut down the power to execute Xio Proceed and the entire land vanished, or at least they were supposed to do so before Nay agreed to help and gave them shelter in Orei, so it's not permanent like the Rim's dropping was, and it was actually foreshadowed when Zill told Nero that she had switched the energy source for Soreil from interdimensional energy to life energy. And if they don't do that, the entire land will end up collapsing regardless and everyone there will have a horrible death in the void of space.
It's the opposite for me. There is something about the art style I really like, and I'm fine with the gameplay. It's the structure of the plot that is souring me on the game.
I'm continuing on though! Even as I roll my eyes as the story goes on. Being the 4th (5th?) game in the series, I'll see it thru
Though I don't get why you're so hung up with the energy problems in both games. In AT2,
the Rim was never designed to be an inhabitable structure and instead was planned to be dropped as soon as the Second Tower was completed, so what happens with the land collapsing there is just a natural consequence of that and Raki halving Sol Marta's energy output due to Shurelia suspending the First Tower in AT1. And in fact, aside of a very small part of it, the entire Rim was dropped in the AT3 light novel between not being necessary anymore and the fact that Frelia needed the energy she was spending on its maintenance for other purposes.
As for the events of Ar nosurge,
it's stated that they need to drop part of the land in order to minimize the damage to the people living in Sharlanoia before they shut down the power to execute Xio Proceed and the entire land vanished, or at least they were supposed to do so before Nay agreed to help and gave them shelter in Orei, so it's not permanent like the Rim's dropping was, and it was actually foreshadowed when Zill told Nero that she had switched the energy source for Soreil from interdimensional energy to life energy. And if they don't do that, the entire land will end up collapsing regardless and everyone there will have a horrible death in the void of space.
"Hung up with" isn't the phase I would use to describe my attitude towards that particular plot point.
In regards to the first spoiler I never got the first bit in bold because I didn't finish the game. I wasn't enjoying the story that much and I had Qoga sitting there waiting for me. Never read the AT3 light novel.
For Ar Nosurge
if switching the power in one direction would cause all the land to disappear you would think it would do it in the other direction as well.
I think more than anything, having played the games so close together, the reusing of plot points just bugged me.
shutting down the entire ship would cause the land to disappear regardless of which energy mode it was operating on, and the energy mode can't be switched when the ship is still in operation, which is precisely why Ion's song was cancelled and that error message appeared when she tried singing it. So by turning it on after the energy has been changed, the land would reappear anyway since the terraforming done over Soreil is done through Song Magic.
shutting down the entire ship would cause the land to disappear regardless of which energy mode it was operating on, and the energy mode can't be switched when the ship is still in operation, which is precisely why Ion's song was cancelled and that error message appeared when she tried singing it. So by turning it on after the energy has been changed, the land would reappear anyway since the terraforming done over Soreil is done through Song Magic.
So that raises questions the game doesn't seem interested in answering.
When did Zill wake up?
When did she switch the power?
When was the land made in the first place? Was it made before or after Nero first started making Sharl?
If she switched the power source after the land was made and had Sharl living on it that surely would have caused problems.
The game has some very broad plot points that are not connected very well.
Everything points out to she having switched the power mode before she made Ion mass-produce Sharls using Ciel nosurge, as while there were Sharls prior to that event, their number was nowhere as large before that (what made them dangerous in the first place was their ability to use magic). Plus, she didn't need much influence aside of her own to control them at that point, given that neither Cosal or Kanon had been extracted from the Micro Quasar at that point, and the Sharls were mostly mindless puppets that only followed the orders Zill programmed into the Astrocyte Modulation Virus due to not having the souls from the Genoms injected in their bodies.
Also, Zill awakened before anyone else. Otherwise, having Undou alive the way he was (outside of Nero's body) and even having Felion opened, and also having Nay, Delta and Cass awakened would be impossible. However, no exact dates have been given for anything that happened between Ciel nosurge and Ar nosurge aside of the events where Delta opened up the barrier himself.
Finally, there's no way the land could have been made before Ion was awakened due to the fact that the souls in the Flask Sea sustain Sharlanoia itself, and also serve as the fuel for the ship when it's using the life energy power mode. Considering that the actual large number of souls came from the humans that were kidnapped in masse after Ciel nosurge was sung, I see no problem with the question about the land or Soreil's power
It seemed pretty clear the land and air was being produced and supported by the ship itself.
So lets consider that the land was made after she switched it to life energy mode. There was enough energy to power the ship and generate all this land. The amount of people in the flask sea is only going up (due to the sharl taking more and more people) not down. So your supply of energy is going up.
All of a sudden land starts disappearing. If you had enough energy to create the land, and more bodies are being added all the time, where is the energy crisis? At that point she had not turned into the Maternal Overseer yet, so there was no large consumption of souls.
Delta and Cass stayed in the Flask Sea for two years with no negative effects.
The energy crisis makes sense if you figure the land and ship was supported by the interdimensional energy and was then changed to life energy. Either way the sequence of events isn't clear.
Edit: To be clear, I understand the energy crisis once Zill turns and starts sucking up all the souls. However, land was disappearing before that. She was counting on that to panic the Sharl and make them more zealous in the collection of Humans.
The air and atmosphere in the inner areas and in the Bezelieltron are generated by Soreil itself, but the land and the air around its outer area (Sharlanoia) are all generated through Song Magic. Otherwise, it would make no sense for the atmosphere to disappear in the parts where the land disappeared.
And about the energy, that's not necessarily true. The game makes clear that putting the people in the Flask Sea is done with the double purpose of creating Sharls and sustaining Sharlanoia, and the former is so taxing on their life force that only generating five Sharls is more than enough to kill anyone. Plus, if you check Tattoria's shop events, there's a point where you have to go to the Flask Sea in one of the most sad scenes in the game, and it's stated there that being for too long inside the Sea can and will definitively kill anyone off. Considering Zill has been at this for several years and a lot of people have died from being forced into the flasks for too long, it's no surprise that there's such a large variance in the amount of energy and parts of the land begin flickering in and out of existence.
On the main map the description of Sora states "These frames generate an atmosphere, and prevent the air from escaping into outer space."
That is for the surface of the land, not the inner areas. Makes no sense why the air is gone when the land is? My thoughts exactly
To the 2nd part of your post, the dual nature of the Flask sea has not been made apparent to me yet. Delta and Cass just got to Ar Ciel, so I'll comment on that when I get to it.
Likewise for the shop event mentioned. I've gotten pretty far along in his events, but I haven't seen that one yet. So no comment just yet.
Plus, if you check Tattoria's shop events, there's a point where you have to go to the Flask Sea in one of the most sad scenes in the game, and it's stated there that being for too long inside the Sea can and will definitively kill anyone off. Considering Zill has been at this for several years and a lot of people have died from being forced into the flasks for too long, it's no surprise that there's such a large variance in the amount of energy and parts of the land begin flickering in and out of existence.
Ha! First thing that happened when I went to his shop just now was to get that event.
Your statement here is completely off base.
1st: The concept of rescuing people from the flask sea doesn't make sense. Not that long ago it was stated in game that even touching the fluid was fatal. With the water up high it was the reason Delta and Cass couldn't get to the Maternal Overseer and had to jump down from the Sharl Road.
2nd: "stated there that being for too long inside the Sea can and will definitively kill anyone off"
At this point they are pulling people out of the sea, and every single one of them should be dead already. Why? Because the Maternal Overseer is fusing every single soul she has available. This means the people in the flask sea!
It was not stated in this scene that being in the flask sea too long will kill you. They didn't speak to the cause of death period. The obvious cause is the Maternal Overseer fusing souls.
It isn't lethal. Touching the fluid only extracts the soul but leaves the body in a vegetative-like state, and if they are left like that for too long, it'll cause the death of that person, and it's pretty much the same effect as the one gotten from listening to Class::EXPSHERE_NOSURGE; for the people in that world. If we want to deal with this in Wave Theory terminology, the link between the H-Wave (soul) and D-Wave (body) components of the person hasn't been severed yet, so they aren't considered dead, and that severing won't happen unless they are completely assimilated by the Overseer like how it happened to both Undou and Zill herself. It's the same situation as what happened with Hibernation and the people in AT2: no one died because Luca cut off the song by shouting at Frelia before the spiritual transmigration had been completed in full.
So no: the Maternal Overseer has nothing to do with the people that died from being too long in the Sea, which also gives complete validity to the rescue efforts.
And furthermore, later on Kanon sings "em-pyei-n vari-fen jang;" to separate the souls that thing has absorbed, with the souls for the bodies that are still alive returning to their bodies and the ones of those who died passing on.
So part of the problem is that you can see shop events before they make sense in the plot.
The shop event that takes you to the flask sea talks of rescuing people from the Flask Sea. I advanced the story some more and now that Kanon sang her song and separated the souls Nay is all like, now we can start rescue efforts!
Doh.
They should have locked the shop events to the story better. It explains why people are coming out of the Flask sea alive and conscious.
By the way, just a couple things to say: the Ar tonelico 2 Relocalization Project has finally released a beta patch for public testing, so if anyone is interested in replaying the game with a better translation work, there's that option now.
Also, if anyone out there's unaware about this and has some time available, I'd advise giving the links here a read: http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/ARM_Backup/Ar_tonelico
These contain translations for a good part of the additional material in the series, and it helps understand better many of the things that happen on the games.
+1
IanatorGaze upon my works, ye mightyand facepalm.Registered Userregular
At the rate I'm going they might get a proper version out by the time I finish AT1. It'll stink being forced to use the JP voices but I'll manage.
Also, that ARM Backup is p neat.
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IanatorGaze upon my works, ye mightyand facepalm.Registered Userregular
edited October 2014
Hell yeah.
EDIT: I've been reading a few FAQs and apparently there's a really hard-to-figure out topic at the end of Misha's Cosmosphere. Late Phase 2 spoilers:
Her topic [About the Ocean Breeze Ocarina] apparently requires me to meld the Ocarina when she's outside my party. I'm guessing this means I don't just take her out of my battle party, right? I've repaired the airship so I don't think I'll be getting another chance before Phase 3. And even if I do, one of the ingredients (for the Canned whatever) is a Photon Oscilliscope - is there a good source for them before I hit the Plasma Bell?
Also, where/when is the Plasma Bell anyways? All the good drops (not just the great ones, all the ones I seem to actually need like Oscilliscopes and Dragon Wings) seem to come from there.
EDIT: I've been reading a few FAQs and apparently there's a really hard-to-figure out topic at the end of Misha's Cosmosphere. Late Phase 2 spoilers:
Her topic [About the Ocean Breeze Ocarina] apparently requires me to meld the Ocarina when she's outside my party. I'm guessing this means I don't just take her out of my battle party, right? I've repaired the airship so I don't think I'll be getting another chance before Phase 3. And even if I do, one of the ingredients (for the Canned whatever) is a Photon Oscilliscope - is there a good source for them before I hit the Plasma Bell?
Also, where/when is the Plasma Bell anyways? All the good drops (not just the great ones, all the ones I seem to actually need like Oscilliscopes and Dragon Wings) seem to come from there.
I'm pretty sure the Plasma Bell is very late game, one of the last places you open up to explore. It's been awhile since I played though.
The very last chance you'll have to make it and get the topic is when the party gets ready to go to the Rinkernator to revive Shurelia.
If you don't get it by then, you'll lose it forever. And there's a Photon Oscilloscope in one of the chests in the area where the next Hymn Crystal you'll be needing is hidden.
So this is just to throw out something for people to watch if they wanted. It's not my channel but is one I like, and I quite literally bought him Ar Nosurge as his first foray into Exa Pico. I think it's a good sign when he spent the first episode talking for literally an hour and narrating a summary of Ciel no Surge to get more background information before he begins.
Anyway, if you want to check it out, just look for Sirlionhart's videos on Youtube. Hopefully this isn't against policy here, as I'm not pushing my own work, just someone else's I like whose content fits the thread currently. He'll be posting Ar Nosurge LP videos starting this week.
Misha route taken, got to Level 7 and am now infiltrating the Tenba lab.
Cosmospheres are actually getting a bit scary at this point. Though I totes should've seen it coming. For the record though...
Button-up blouse. Holy shit.
Both cosmospheres get a bit weird as you get deeper and deeper into them, as the higher the level the more repressed the feelings they represent get, yeah. As much as a lot of it is very typical animu kinds of things, I really liked diving as a mechanic that basically is just "Hey, how can we just shove giant bricks of character development into the game?"
Misha route taken, got to Level 7 and am now infiltrating the Tenba lab.
Cosmospheres are actually getting a bit scary at this point. Though I totes should've seen it coming. For the record though...
Button-up blouse. Holy shit.
Both cosmospheres get a bit weird as you get deeper and deeper into them, as the higher the level the more repressed the feelings they represent get, yeah. As much as a lot of it is very typical animu kinds of things, I really liked diving as a mechanic that basically is just "Hey, how can we just shove giant bricks of character development into the game?"
Oh, I know. I've since completed their oh-so-climactic L8s and am now grinding up DP for Aurica's L9 (who has a 5800 DP event, holy crap) and waiting on ridiculously-specific circumstances to make a key item for Misha's L9.
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Soooo... Got knee deep in phase 2, right up to the reveals you knew were coming.
It handled itself acknowledging that you were controlling Earthes and Delta very well in my eyes, even giving you the opportunity to make Delta say positively loony things. Also very interesting that the whole situation was largely self-inflicted by half of the main group. I won't be surprised if later on Delta finds out he chose this route, and had him given amnesia to play the part better.
So basically both sides are working the same angle, making a new planet and sending people home using an 8th Dimensional. Except Zill decided to create one, while Sarly and others worked to bring one to their universe via proxy. So I would take a wild guess that the final battle is between two onmipresent beings that try out-cheat-coding each other to victory. Hopefully it's as awesome as it sounds.
Actually, it isn't like that. Sarly and the others were never involved with bringing someone else from outside their own dimension, while Zill has been insane and tried doing something similar not to send anyone home (sending Nero home is no more than a byproduct of the process), but to her become absolute ruler over humanity in a supposed "new form of existence" ever since the events of Ciel nosurge took place. Likewise, Delta had never a choice in the matter, as the Interdimend was forced onto him by Zill to invade Felion more easily as shown in the brief time we could "Dive" into her during Phase 1 to find the password to the church's back door, and in the Ar nosurge Proto novel.
Actually, it isn't like that. Sarly and the others were never involved with bringing someone else from outside their own dimension, while Zill has been insane and tried doing something similar not to send anyone home (sending Nero home is no more than a byproduct of the process), but to her become absolute ruler over humanity in a supposed "new form of existence" ever since the events of Ciel nosurge took place. Likewise, Delta had never a choice in the matter, as the Interdimend was forced onto him by Zill to invade Felion more easily as shown in the brief time we could "Dive" into her during Phase 1 to find the password to the church's back door, and in the Ar nosurge Proto novel.
Alright, pretty sure some of that is spoilers, even for me. Despite you maybe figuring it out early, if any of that is explained later in the game, that's a spoiler... I don't care how much you want to explain how much my self-proclaimed fucking theory was wrong.
p sure most of that was explained in ciel nosurge, which all happened before ar nosurge
Yeah, sorry about being a little testy about the subject. Seen people many times ruin tension by offering too much information, and trying to correct a theory rather than just saying 'it may not work out like you think' kinda felt like I was being baited. I have folks I subscribe to not streaming anymore because chat suffers from TMI, and it's frustrating.
So to lighten the subject, what would you want to see Ion and Casty dressed as for Halloween? I'm picturing Ion as sexy robot to match Earthes, and Casty as Nyuroki with twin pigtails.
Huh... someone I watch their LPs just noticed that in Sarly's Genometrics with Cass, it accidentally spoils who Undou is in the game way early in Phase 1, before he comes out and admits it in Phase 2. That's kind of a shame.
0
IanatorGaze upon my works, ye mightyand facepalm.Registered Userregular
AT1: Is it possible I've over-leveled? I've got Lyner at 60ish and everyone else not far behind besides Aurica and Radolf who got left behind by the story branch. This is kind of troublesome as my vanguard tends to end battles before I hit the second level of harmonics.
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AT1: Is it possible I've over-leveled? I've got Lyner at 60ish and everyone else not far behind besides Aurica and Radolf who got left behind by the story branch. This is kind of troublesome as my vanguard tends to end battles before I hit the second level of harmonics.
Very possible and easy to overlevel in AT1 and AT2. There is a section in AT1 which will seriously hurt regardless (everything is immune to Physical) and in AT2 you can just play low level no gear upgrades and have virtual constant sudden death when all it takes is a single non-perfect block to kill your reyvateils
AT1: Is it possible I've over-leveled? I've got Lyner at 60ish and everyone else not far behind besides Aurica and Radolf who got left behind by the story branch. This is kind of troublesome as my vanguard tends to end battles before I hit the second level of harmonics.
Very possible and easy to overlevel in AT1 and AT2. There is a section in AT1 which will seriously hurt regardless (everything is immune to Physical) and in AT2 you can just play low level no gear upgrades and have virtual constant sudden death when all it takes is a single non-perfect block to kill your reyvateils
Huh. Maybe it's a good thing I've been hanging on to most of my old equipment then. Roll out the nerf weapons and roll in the Lv4 item rewards!
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Things definitely pick up in At Nosurge during Phase 2. Story, Genometrics, and even the skits when synthesizing are much better after they get all the settings and characters in the right place. Those of us that know how Ar Tonelico works are used to this, but I can see how it might grow tiring for new players. This game really is a slow build, compounded by having a lot of back story in a game we didn't get.
Also digging how Meta the game is getting, and I don't really care what others think. It definitely sets itself apart from all other AT games for it, for good or bad.
Alright, in preparation of potential holidays deals, along with Atelier Ayesha Plus coming out early next year, I've changed this into a general GUST thread rather than just about their Ar Tonelico/Nosurge series.
I myself still need some time to finish both Ar Nosurge, and eventually get back to Atelier Eschatology before Shallie comes out later next year. Not that I wasn't digging the hell out of Eschatology, but I knew I had time before the final game in the trilogy came out.
Aside from a bit of extra "plus content" and some slightly gussied up visuals for the Vita screen, probably not if you've played through Totori and Meruru already.
Rorona Plus absolutely if all you've played was the original. (You can get it on PS3 too.)
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I mean come on, in Ar Tonelico 2, you had like, 5 things to be aware of: Vanguard Health, Reyvateil health, and their MP, Replekia, and the Synch gauge. All you have to worry about in Nosurge is just the Reyvateil's HP, and there's only one of them in battle ever.... sigh.
Like, the cosmospheres are on par, since they naturally deal with the whacky misadventures inside the human psyche, and the music is definitely on par with what the series is probably most renown for... but it just didn't click with me.
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It's the opposite for me. There is something about the art style I really like, and I'm fine with the gameplay. It's the structure of the plot that is souring me on the game.
I'm continuing on though! Even as I roll my eyes as the story goes on. Being the 4th (5th?) game in the series, I'll see it thru
This series changes quite a bit with each game, so you shouldn't really expect much similar. You got your Song Magic, you got your Cosmosphere, and everything else is experimental, especially the combat.
The combat looks like they were going for a fast paced, combo centric version of AT2. It's not as good as its counterpart, but later on being able to destroy 25+ waves of enemies feels oddly satisfying as well. Much like Atelier, the priority isn't the combat, even though they try to spice it up each time.
As for not using stills for the dialogue anymore, that's just the engine they're using now. I'm used to it because I play the Atelier series, and it's been like this for the entire Dusk trilogy. It's just a change... I get it might lose a bit of the visual novel feel without the stills, but that's a minor issue for me.
The Dusk series in the Atelier franchise got rid of the static portraits, but they did make those scenes a lot more dynamic. They had character models and they used them instead of just talking heads, which is what Ar nosurge did instead...
Though I don't get why you're so hung up with the energy problems in both games. In AT2,
As for the events of Ar nosurge,
"Hung up with" isn't the phase I would use to describe my attitude towards that particular plot point.
In regards to the first spoiler I never got the first bit in bold because I didn't finish the game. I wasn't enjoying the story that much and I had Qoga sitting there waiting for me. Never read the AT3 light novel.
For Ar Nosurge
I think more than anything, having played the games so close together, the reusing of plot points just bugged me.
So that raises questions the game doesn't seem interested in answering.
When did she switch the power?
When was the land made in the first place? Was it made before or after Nero first started making Sharl?
If she switched the power source after the land was made and had Sharl living on it that surely would have caused problems.
The game has some very broad plot points that are not connected very well.
Also, Zill awakened before anyone else. Otherwise, having Undou alive the way he was (outside of Nero's body) and even having Felion opened, and also having Nay, Delta and Cass awakened would be impossible. However, no exact dates have been given for anything that happened between Ciel nosurge and Ar nosurge aside of the events where Delta opened up the barrier himself.
Finally, there's no way the land could have been made before Ion was awakened due to the fact that the souls in the Flask Sea sustain Sharlanoia itself, and also serve as the fuel for the ship when it's using the life energy power mode. Considering that the actual large number of souls came from the humans that were kidnapped in masse after Ciel nosurge was sung, I see no problem with the question about the land or Soreil's power
So lets consider that the land was made after she switched it to life energy mode. There was enough energy to power the ship and generate all this land. The amount of people in the flask sea is only going up (due to the sharl taking more and more people) not down. So your supply of energy is going up.
All of a sudden land starts disappearing. If you had enough energy to create the land, and more bodies are being added all the time, where is the energy crisis? At that point she had not turned into the Maternal Overseer yet, so there was no large consumption of souls.
Delta and Cass stayed in the Flask Sea for two years with no negative effects.
The energy crisis makes sense if you figure the land and ship was supported by the interdimensional energy and was then changed to life energy. Either way the sequence of events isn't clear.
Edit: To be clear, I understand the energy crisis once Zill turns and starts sucking up all the souls. However, land was disappearing before that. She was counting on that to panic the Sharl and make them more zealous in the collection of Humans.
And about the energy, that's not necessarily true. The game makes clear that putting the people in the Flask Sea is done with the double purpose of creating Sharls and sustaining Sharlanoia, and the former is so taxing on their life force that only generating five Sharls is more than enough to kill anyone. Plus, if you check Tattoria's shop events, there's a point where you have to go to the Flask Sea in one of the most sad scenes in the game, and it's stated there that being for too long inside the Sea can and will definitively kill anyone off. Considering Zill has been at this for several years and a lot of people have died from being forced into the flasks for too long, it's no surprise that there's such a large variance in the amount of energy and parts of the land begin flickering in and out of existence.
That is for the surface of the land, not the inner areas. Makes no sense why the air is gone when the land is? My thoughts exactly
To the 2nd part of your post, the dual nature of the Flask sea has not been made apparent to me yet. Delta and Cass just got to Ar Ciel, so I'll comment on that when I get to it.
Likewise for the shop event mentioned. I've gotten pretty far along in his events, but I haven't seen that one yet. So no comment just yet.
Ha! First thing that happened when I went to his shop just now was to get that event.
1st: The concept of rescuing people from the flask sea doesn't make sense. Not that long ago it was stated in game that even touching the fluid was fatal. With the water up high it was the reason Delta and Cass couldn't get to the Maternal Overseer and had to jump down from the Sharl Road.
2nd: "stated there that being for too long inside the Sea can and will definitively kill anyone off"
At this point they are pulling people out of the sea, and every single one of them should be dead already. Why? Because the Maternal Overseer is fusing every single soul she has available. This means the people in the flask sea!
It was not stated in this scene that being in the flask sea too long will kill you. They didn't speak to the cause of death period. The obvious cause is the Maternal Overseer fusing souls.
So no: the Maternal Overseer has nothing to do with the people that died from being too long in the Sea, which also gives complete validity to the rescue efforts.
And furthermore, later on Kanon sings "em-pyei-n vari-fen jang;" to separate the souls that thing has absorbed, with the souls for the bodies that are still alive returning to their bodies and the ones of those who died passing on.
Doh.
They should have locked the shop events to the story better. It explains why people are coming out of the Flask sea alive and conscious.
Also, if anyone out there's unaware about this and has some time available, I'd advise giving the links here a read: http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/ARM_Backup/Ar_tonelico
These contain translations for a good part of the additional material in the series, and it helps understand better many of the things that happen on the games.
Also, that ARM Backup is p neat.
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EDIT: I've been reading a few FAQs and apparently there's a really hard-to-figure out topic at the end of Misha's Cosmosphere. Late Phase 2 spoilers:
Also, where/when is the Plasma Bell anyways? All the good drops (not just the great ones, all the ones I seem to actually need like Oscilliscopes and Dragon Wings) seem to come from there.
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Anyway, if you want to check it out, just look for Sirlionhart's videos on Youtube. Hopefully this isn't against policy here, as I'm not pushing my own work, just someone else's I like whose content fits the thread currently. He'll be posting Ar Nosurge LP videos starting this week.
Both cosmospheres get a bit weird as you get deeper and deeper into them, as the higher the level the more repressed the feelings they represent get, yeah. As much as a lot of it is very typical animu kinds of things, I really liked diving as a mechanic that basically is just "Hey, how can we just shove giant bricks of character development into the game?"
Oh, I know. I've since completed their oh-so-climactic L8s and am now grinding up DP for Aurica's L9 (who has a 5800 DP event, holy crap) and waiting on ridiculously-specific circumstances to make a key item for Misha's L9.
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So basically both sides are working the same angle, making a new planet and sending people home using an 8th Dimensional. Except Zill decided to create one, while Sarly and others worked to bring one to their universe via proxy. So I would take a wild guess that the final battle is between two onmipresent beings that try out-cheat-coding each other to victory. Hopefully it's as awesome as it sounds.
Alright, pretty sure some of that is spoilers, even for me. Despite you maybe figuring it out early, if any of that is explained later in the game, that's a spoiler... I don't care how much you want to explain how much my self-proclaimed fucking theory was wrong.
Yeah, sorry about being a little testy about the subject. Seen people many times ruin tension by offering too much information, and trying to correct a theory rather than just saying 'it may not work out like you think' kinda felt like I was being baited. I have folks I subscribe to not streaming anymore because chat suffers from TMI, and it's frustrating.
So to lighten the subject, what would you want to see Ion and Casty dressed as for Halloween? I'm picturing Ion as sexy robot to match Earthes, and Casty as Nyuroki with twin pigtails.
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Very possible and easy to overlevel in AT1 and AT2. There is a section in AT1 which will seriously hurt regardless (everything is immune to Physical) and in AT2 you can just play low level no gear upgrades and have virtual constant sudden death when all it takes is a single non-perfect block to kill your reyvateils
Huh. Maybe it's a good thing I've been hanging on to most of my old equipment then. Roll out the nerf weapons and roll in the Lv4 item rewards!
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Also digging how Meta the game is getting, and I don't really care what others think. It definitely sets itself apart from all other AT games for it, for good or bad.
I myself still need some time to finish both Ar Nosurge, and eventually get back to Atelier Eschatology before Shallie comes out later next year. Not that I wasn't digging the hell out of Eschatology, but I knew I had time before the final game in the trilogy came out.
Edit: damn spotty mobile.
I know but are they better overall? Worth the money if you have the former game etc?
Rorona Plus absolutely if all you've played was the original. (You can get it on PS3 too.)
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //