The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[GUST] Games. Shallie Plus out now, Firis coming 3/7, Blue Reflection pending

11112131517

Posts

  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Gonna be odd seeing who grabs these. I mean with Atelier it's pretty easy. 'Enjoyed Recitear and Holy Potatoes! A Weapon Shop?!, but wanted more RPG elements? Try Atelier!'

  • SwashbucklerXXSwashbucklerXX Swashbucklin' Canuck Registered User regular
    It's too bad that Atelier Sophie isn't one of the strongest Atelier titles. It lacks direction (in a bad way) and the combat system is a major step back from the Dusk trilogy. Though playing Alchemy Tetris is pretty fun, it probably works best for people who are used to the alchemy system from earlier titles.

    Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
    3DS Friend Code: 3823-8693-5976
    Final Fantasy XIV: Neema Chelewae, Hyperion Server
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    It's too bad that Atelier Sophie isn't one of the strongest Atelier titles. It lacks direction (in a bad way) and the combat system is a major step back from the Dusk trilogy. Though playing Alchemy Tetris is pretty fun, it probably works best for people who are used to the alchemy system from earlier titles.

    Yeah, I'd have been more excited if they started with Ayesha. Sophie is not a good place to start, but it is a starting point. I've yet to see an Atelier that makes a really cathartic system for both combat and alchemy. Firis has potential so far, but I'm not holding my breath.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Quiotu wrote: »
    It's too bad that Atelier Sophie isn't one of the strongest Atelier titles. It lacks direction (in a bad way) and the combat system is a major step back from the Dusk trilogy. Though playing Alchemy Tetris is pretty fun, it probably works best for people who are used to the alchemy system from earlier titles.

    Yeah, I'd have been more excited if they started with Ayesha. Sophie is not a good place to start, but it is a starting point. I've yet to see an Atelier that makes a really cathartic system for both combat and alchemy. Firis has potential so far, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Bring back Mana Khemia, Gust! Return to spritework! You were so good at it. And then you abandoned it for frillier and frillier dresses that just keep cropping into the characters bodies and shitty camera angles all over.

    ...Please?

    Magic Pink
  • iadlastiadlast Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »

    Bring back Mana Khemia, Gust! Return to spritework! You were so good at it. And then you abandoned it for frillier and frillier dresses that just keep cropping into the characters bodies and shitty camera angles all over.

    ...Please?

    You're asking for the impossible: they're not going back to 2D now they've gotten such a good hang on how to make decent character models, and the Mana Khemia games were by far the worst sold entries in the mainline Atelier series. If the Arland games and AT3 hadn't picked up the slack to make up for these losses, most likely Gust would have ended up going into bankruptcy.

    And on other news, the guys over at Project Metafalica have already finished their work and released the final patch a few days ago: http://www.at2.metalbat.com/?p=664
    So yeah, now Ar tonelico 2 can be played devoid of all the bad-quality localization work NISA did.

    TakelKamarLovely
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    That's pretty awesome.

    vagrant_winds
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    iadlast wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »

    Bring back Mana Khemia, Gust! Return to spritework! You were so good at it. And then you abandoned it for frillier and frillier dresses that just keep cropping into the characters bodies and shitty camera angles all over.

    ...Please?

    You're asking for the impossible: they're not going back to 2D now they've gotten such a good hang on how to make decent character models,

    Pull the other one, it has bells.

    Magic Pink
  • iadlastiadlast Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »

    Pull the other one, it has bells.

    As if they hadn't made any progress from the character models in Atelier Rorona to the ones in Blue Reflection and Firis.

    Takel
  • FremFrem Registered User regular
    edited January 3
  • TakelTakel Registered User regular
    Yeah if you play Rorona (first one), the Totori, Meruru, Shin Rorona, Ayesha, Eschatology, Shallie etc... and don't notice that there's a significant improvement between each and every game in how damn close they're getting to the base character design... I don't have any words.

    Totori was already a significant improvement compared to the extreme early attempts with Rorona. Meruru was nearly spot on but that comparison of Shallie just cements that they're able to nail those really frilly character designs in a 3D model.

    Steam | PSN: MystLansfeld | 3DS: 4656-6210-1377 | FFXIV: Lavinia Lansfeld
    vagrant_windsSwashbucklerXXLovely
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Yeah, the look of the games have never been the issue with Gust games. They have art style and music down pretty goddamn well. They just need to get more people on their team that can help with their gameplay, because they have a rough time getting all gameplay elements working well without one getting left behind and ending up sub-par.

    Blue Reflection and the next Nights of Azure I'm curious to see if they can start messing with more than alchemy or VNs and make side gameplay that can match up with combat. Either combat or side gameplay tends to suffer in their games, and I'm waiting for that first entry that actually makes both fun and engaging.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited January 3
    iadlast wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »

    Pull the other one, it has bells.

    As if they hadn't made any progress from the character models in Atelier Rorona to the ones in Blue Reflection and Firis.

    Nobody said that they don't look less shitty than they did seven years ago.

    But you could've started from FF7-level masses of polygons and the current Gust stuff would still be a constant mess of janky animations, constant clipping, and ten thousand too many frills that don't work on the models at all.

    ArcTangent on
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    edited January 3
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    iadlast wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »

    Pull the other one, it has bells.

    As if they hadn't made any progress from the character models in Atelier Rorona to the ones in Blue Reflection and Firis.

    Nobody said that they don't look less shitty than they did seven years ago.

    But you could've started from FF7-level masses of polygons and the current Gust stuff would still be a constant mess of janky animations, constant clipping, and ten thousand too many frills that don't work on the models at all.

    Clearly a lot of us are going to disagree with you on this. Going back to sprites means they'll be compared to Disgaea by many, and I'm sure they want to distance themselves from their old publisher as much as possible.

    We get it, you don't like that your JRPG of yesteryear is turning into a softer IP where it's more about alchemy and playing dress up than the old school grind. It's working for them, and it's garnering a bigger audience. There are folks unhappy with Persona's turn as well starting with 3. You don't have to like it, but you can't say it isn't working for them

    Quiotu on
    vagrant_windsLovely
  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    You know, I'm not sure whether to be most impressed with the writers, the singers, or the fan who put together the video on something like this

    (Ar Nosurge spoilers, maybe?)

    Someone got something right, that I can sit and stare at a lyrics video on repeat for...a while.

    vagrant_winds
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds is pumped-up. Registered User regular
    You saw me post that video in the SE JRPG thread didn't you?

    Ar nosurge is so good.

    M5Bw6j7.png
    // Steam & LoL: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds // 3DS: 4682-8868-5037 // WiiU: VagrantWinds //
  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    You saw me post that video in the SE JRPG thread didn't you?

    Ar nosurge is so good.

    Actually no, I just went on a binge of Ar music videos recently--I'd heard the songs but didn't know the translations--and that one really stuck out. Xio Proceed is also incredible.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Quiotu wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    iadlast wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »

    Pull the other one, it has bells.

    As if they hadn't made any progress from the character models in Atelier Rorona to the ones in Blue Reflection and Firis.

    Nobody said that they don't look less shitty than they did seven years ago.

    But you could've started from FF7-level masses of polygons and the current Gust stuff would still be a constant mess of janky animations, constant clipping, and ten thousand too many frills that don't work on the models at all.

    Clearly a lot of us are going to disagree with you on this. Going back to sprites means they'll be compared to Disgaea by many, and I'm sure they want to distance themselves from their old publisher as much as possible.

    We get it, you don't like that your JRPG of yesteryear is turning into a softer IP where it's more about alchemy and playing dress up than the old school grind. It's working for them, and it's garnering a bigger audience. There are folks unhappy with Persona's turn as well starting with 3. You don't have to like it, but you can't say it isn't working for them

    You transitioned from ignoring everything I brought up in counterpoint to a blanket dismissal of everything else I might say under the excuse that I'm clearly just a hater.

    I wanted E&L/Shallie especially to be good. They're the closest thing that the series has gotten to that engine I really liked which was a casualty of their utterly godawful growing pains of transitioning to 3D, and obviously Gust trying to recapture that. But they flubbed that hard for a number of reasons. And none of them have anything to do with the modeling being about 5 years behind the times at best, no matter how pretty or how frilly the dresses are.

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    I don't think it's that we're ignoring you so much as it is that we just disagree with you. Their models are fantastic. We love them. They look just like the concept art, and while the animations aren't perfect, they're way better than the handful of frames we'd be getting from their spritework animations.

    It's ok if you don't like the style, but the rest of us think that it's a graceful transition to 3d.

    vagrant_windsLovely
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    You saw me post that video in the SE JRPG thread didn't you?

    Ar nosurge is so good.

    I sadly can't agree with you here. I think Ar Nosurge was a good experiment that necessitated from them losing a lot of their previous work from the other Exa Pico games. The game in my mind is too glitchy and makes too many easy developer mistakes for me to proclaim it as 'great'. It's good, but it was clearly rushed out the door when either Gust or KT realized some things in the game were just never going to work well.

    In my mind Ar Nosurge would've been a better game if they just left it out of the Exa Pico universe. Their attempt to shoehorn it into the universe without it being related to it in any reasonable way I think causes more confusion and problems than they were trying to solve.

  • iadlastiadlast Registered User regular
    edited January 4
    Kamar wrote: »
    You know, I'm not sure whether to be most impressed with the writers, the singers, or the fan who put together the video on something like this

    (Ar Nosurge spoilers, maybe?)

    Someone got something right, that I can sit and stare at a lyrics video on repeat for...a while.

    Except you know, the guy who made that video has no idea of Japanese and has a very poor idea of the REON-4213 grammar, so a good part of that video is mistranslated. After all, what else could it be called when he translates all the energy source declarations ("execute using R-Waves") as execution planes ("execute destruction on timespace") when the song does nothing like that? Not to mention he is infamous among the Ar tonelico fandom for stealing the translations from a fan forum, passing them through Google Translate and then filling them with purple prose "to improve them".

    Quiotu wrote: »
    You saw me post that video in the SE JRPG thread didn't you?

    Ar nosurge is so good.

    I sadly can't agree with you here. I think Ar Nosurge was a good experiment that necessitated from them losing a lot of their previous work from the other Exa Pico games. The game in my mind is too glitchy and makes too many easy developer mistakes for me to proclaim it as 'great'. It's good, but it was clearly rushed out the door when either Gust or KT realized some things in the game were just never going to work well.

    In my mind Ar Nosurge would've been a better game if they just left it out of the Exa Pico universe. Their attempt to shoehorn it into the universe without it being related to it in any reasonable way I think causes more confusion and problems than they were trying to solve.

    Except that Ar nosurge was never "shoehorned" into EXA_PICO's universe, it was planned to be a part of it from the beginning: Tsuchiya had been giving hints to a lot of the stuff Ciel and Ar nosurge revealed in the Ar Portal right in the same year AT3 was released in Japan, and Ciel itself had a number of subtle clues about it belonging to that universe before Tsuchiya himself unveiled it in an interview and Ar nosurge made the connection official.

    The only actual problem it causes is a continuity snarl from having Shurelia in it, but from the rest, it actually clears up a large number of mysteries the fans had been wondering about for a long time: the functions of the R and Tz-Waves, the working mechanism for the Orgel of Origins, the origin of the Teru, how other planets use Song Magic, what Ar Ciel and Ar tonelico looked like in the First Era, Horus's true appearance, what Syestine and the Shelanoir's Forest looked like...

    And as for "rushed due to stuff not working out well", it's actually because the series was too large in scope and ambition for the budget Gust had given Tsuchiya, not to mention Ar nosurge's localization was pathetic and as bad as NISA's attempt on AT2 was, if not even worse due to relying greatly on a game that never left Japan. So I don't get where you're coming from to say remarks as senseless as these.

    iadlast on
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Can I just say that despite my opinion on anything regarding Gust and EXA_PICO and Atelier, I'm really glad there's giant nerds out there looking to absorb every morsel of info about these IPs. I'm a pretty big fan of Gust's games, but I'm not nearly on the level as a lot of people that post here, and I'm glad you guys bring more to the thread than I can. :)

    I won't deny that around half of what iadlast got out of Ar Nosurge I can't make any sense out of, these are clearly matters you need to be big in the lore of EXA_PICO to understand. I've forgotten a lot of information about the universe, and finding things like the OVA, manga and light novels, along with the AR Portal, are just not things I have time to get into.

    What I can say about Ar Nosurge because of this, is it severely limits the audience it can pick up. I don't tend to judge games based off of how it enhances information I already know, I base it off of what it can teach me without having to do any homework. And yeah, the localization basically expects you to be an expert on the series and explains very little, which makes the game incredibly difficult to pick up and understand to newcomers.

    Add to that just a cornucopia of bugs and glitches that were a mixture of bugs in Japan that had yet to be fixed, along with new ones the localization created. The difficulty spike, the TxBIOS slots, the audio balance, Delta's Delay Burst lagging to the point it can freeze both PS3 or Vita, the Phase 2 boss stats being swapped between the first and second encounter, the NPC text being garbled. The game was simply not tested well at all, and it took months for them to start fixing anything.

    I'm very glad that people got a lot out of this game despite all the issues, but I'm not going to apologize for saying what Ar Nosurge is: a valiant attempt to expand EXA_PICO that suffered from budget, story, and lore issues, that was given a positively garbage port to the West.

  • DonnictonDonnicton M'ario Registered User regular
    It didn't help that Nosurge didn't even start explaining its own story(such as why Prim's such a little shit for most of the game) until you're already done with the majority of the game, much less any additional lore. Everything about the game expects you to just deal with it until it feels like telling you something.

    That being said though the game has its own weird charm to it and I can't really hate it. It just needed to be done better.

    PSN: Donnicton - Switch FC: SW-6944-1374-2020 - Wii/3DS FC: 1633-4230-5354 - Steam: Donnicton - BNet: Donnicton#11763
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds is pumped-up. Registered User regular
    Ciel nosurge has been entirely translated in youtube-movie-format.
    Various other notes for Ciel nosruge, as well as the old 'chapter summaries' can be found at the translator's page.

    The translation will eventually be fully edited into the game itself by some members of the Ar tonelico 2 translation team, but not for a while (not until Atelier Marie + Elie is done being translated).

    M5Bw6j7.png
    // Steam & LoL: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds // 3DS: 4682-8868-5037 // WiiU: VagrantWinds //
    LD50IanatorKamar
  • TakelTakel Registered User regular
    Combat footage clip from Blue Reflection



    Map environment looks rather dull as well as the combat system in general... Think this is a wait and get more context sort of thing but still looks rather pretty (character design wise)

    Steam | PSN: MystLansfeld | 3DS: 4656-6210-1377 | FFXIV: Lavinia Lansfeld
    vagrant_winds
  • DonnictonDonnicton M'ario Registered User regular
    That is one ridiculously stylized UI though, holy damn. I need to see more videos of the game.

    PSN: Donnicton - Switch FC: SW-6944-1374-2020 - Wii/3DS FC: 1633-4230-5354 - Steam: Donnicton - BNet: Donnicton#11763
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Takel wrote: »
    Combat footage clip from Blue Reflection



    Map environment looks rather dull as well as the combat system in general... Think this is a wait and get more context sort of thing but still looks rather pretty (character design wise)

    I'll have to watch that when I get home. I like that Gust is trying out different ideas, and regardless of how Blue Reflection turns out, I'll be trying it in one fashion or another.

    Also, trying out Nights of Azure finally. After the first few dungeons, I can see how the gameplay could get stale after a while. Also, first Gust game I remember without an English dub. But so far I'm okay with the combat, and having timers on the dungeons is a nice touch.

    A shame that the sequel was delayed. I'm curious to see if they managed to diversify the gameplay. It's a good proof of concept, if a little low on options.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Quiotu wrote: »
    Takel wrote: »
    Combat footage clip from Blue Reflection



    Map environment looks rather dull as well as the combat system in general... Think this is a wait and get more context sort of thing but still looks rather pretty (character design wise)

    I'll have to watch that when I get home. I like that Gust is trying out different ideas, and regardless of how Blue Reflection turns out, I'll be trying it in one fashion or another.

    Oh the irony. Prepare to be disappointed when you do watch it then.

  • LovelyLovely Registered User regular
    Haven't started Atelier Shalie yet, but Gust USA they've been using this screenshot in their promotions of the game and it's my favorite.


    gb89lr0he1ow.jpg

    Keithgriff looks so ANGRY being surrounded by the moe! (and yes, I include Logy as one of the representatives of adorableness.)

    sig.gif
    vagrant_winds
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    Lovely wrote: »
    Haven't started Atelier Shalie yet, but Gust USA they've been using this screenshot in their promotions of the game and it's my favorite.


    gb89lr0he1ow.jpg

    Keithgriff looks so ANGRY being surrounded by the moe! (and yes, I include Logy as one of the representatives of adorableness.)

    There's always one stoic dude in every recent Atelier game. In the Arland games it was The Sterk being Mr. Stuffy Knight.

    Also that's a bit of a misdirection of an image. Ayesha's around, but depending on your ending, you won't see her at all in the game. She's in hiding for two games straight until the very VERY end.

    Quiotu on
  • SwashbucklerXXSwashbucklerXX Swashbucklin' Canuck Registered User regular
    Which is sad because I <3 Ayesha.

    Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
    3DS Friend Code: 3823-8693-5976
    Final Fantasy XIV: Neema Chelewae, Hyperion Server
    vagrant_winds
  • LovelyLovely Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    She's a playable character in plus along with costumes I've heard...

    She's kinda my least favorite of the alchemists though (just found her boring) , so I'm not really fussed about it either way.

    Lovely on
    sig.gif
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Lovely wrote: »
    She's a playable character in plus along with costumes I've heard...

    She's kinda my least favorite of the alchemists though (just found her boring) , so I'm not really fussed about it either way.

    I enjoyed her as being the most open example of what Atelier is about: a young lady who's unabashedly feminine, where that doesn't stop her from adventuring and controlling her fate. Ayesha's the girliest protagonist I've seen in Atelier, but she still goes out and works and learns and does shit she freely admits she has no business doing, all to prove Keith wrong and save her sister.

    vagrant_winds
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    Quiotu wrote: »
    Lovely wrote: »
    She's a playable character in plus along with costumes I've heard...

    She's kinda my least favorite of the alchemists though (just found her boring) , so I'm not really fussed about it either way.

    I enjoyed her as being the most open example of what Atelier is about: a young lady who's unabashedly feminine, where that doesn't stop her from adventuring and controlling her fate. Ayesha's the girliest protagonist I've seen in Atelier, but she still goes out and works and learns and does shit she freely admits she has no business doing, all to prove Keith wrong and save her sister.

    And at the end of it, when she asks what it was all about, he tells her to not worry her cute little head about it, to go home, and bake pies.

    Which she does.

    Because she's just a girl whose interests are pies and making friends, and he's the big great all-knowing alchemist.

    I had bit less charitable view of Keith's incessant holier than thou hippy bullshit and Ayesha's (and every character who interacts with him really, all the time, in all the games) complete deference to him in all things.

    ArcTangent on
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    Quiotu wrote: »
    Lovely wrote: »
    She's a playable character in plus along with costumes I've heard...

    She's kinda my least favorite of the alchemists though (just found her boring) , so I'm not really fussed about it either way.

    I enjoyed her as being the most open example of what Atelier is about: a young lady who's unabashedly feminine, where that doesn't stop her from adventuring and controlling her fate. Ayesha's the girliest protagonist I've seen in Atelier, but she still goes out and works and learns and does shit she freely admits she has no business doing, all to prove Keith wrong and save her sister.

    And at the end of it, when she asks what it was all about, he tells her to not worry her cute little head about it, to go home, and bake pies.

    Which she does.

    Because she's just a girl whose interests are pies and making friends, and he's the big great all-knowing alchemist.

    I had bit less charitable view of Keith's incessant holier than thou hippy bullshit and Ayesha's (and every character who interacts with him really, all the time, in all the games) complete deference to him in all things.

    Is that why she's wandering around with him, getting herself wanted by authorities for messing with ancient structures and constantly studying? Because last I checked the true ending was her adamantly hanging around Keith to figure it out, which is why she's still hanging around him at the end of Shallie.

    vagrant_winds
  • LovelyLovely Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    Quiotu wrote: »
    Lovely wrote: »
    She's a playable character in plus along with costumes I've heard...

    She's kinda my least favorite of the alchemists though (just found her boring) , so I'm not really fussed about it either way.

    I enjoyed her as being the most open example of what Atelier is about: a young lady who's unabashedly feminine, where that doesn't stop her from adventuring and controlling her fate. Ayesha's the girliest protagonist I've seen in Atelier, but she still goes out and works and learns and does shit she freely admits she has no business doing, all to prove Keith wrong and save her sister.


    I guess. For me though, she comes off as the breathy Yamato Nadeshiko/bishoujo type which is sort of an idealized idea of a "proper" womanly-woman that I, personally, just could never identify with. (Inoue, her jp voice actress tends to play that type a LOT.) It just makes me uncomfortable.
    That, and it took her too goddamned long to realize she was a goddamned alchemist. YEESH WOMAN.

    Better than the "I'm not doing it cause I like you! *BLUSH* " tsundere type, but ... yeah, still not a character type that I'm particularly fond of. (though it is cool that she eventually gets that adventurin' bug. )

    I don't hate her or anything though.

    As a side note, I think we've had this conversation, in this very thread, like a gajillion times already :p .

    Lovely on
    sig.gif
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Lovely wrote: »
    Quiotu wrote: »
    Lovely wrote: »
    She's a playable character in plus along with costumes I've heard...

    She's kinda my least favorite of the alchemists though (just found her boring) , so I'm not really fussed about it either way.

    I enjoyed her as being the most open example of what Atelier is about: a young lady who's unabashedly feminine, where that doesn't stop her from adventuring and controlling her fate. Ayesha's the girliest protagonist I've seen in Atelier, but she still goes out and works and learns and does shit she freely admits she has no business doing, all to prove Keith wrong and save her sister.


    I guess. For me though, she comes off as the breathy Yamato Nadeshiko or bishoujo type which is sort of an idealized idea of a "proper" womanly-woman that I just could never identify with.

    I don't think we have to like every protagonist in the series. Hell, I think Rorona is an idiot savant who basically trips into all of her breakthroughs, and that gets old really quick for me. So it's cool, I don't get where you're coming from with Ayesha, but we're all entitled to have favorites. :biggrin:

  • LovelyLovely Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    Yeah, I don't hate Ayesha. Just ... she's not my fave. Doesn't help that her game itself had a lot of bishoujo-trope-types in general. (and a sad lack of cute boy tropes that I yearn for! Escha/Logy fixed this. )

    Speaking of, in that way, I feel like Ayesha and Sophie are kinda similar in that way. Though Sophie leans more towards the "moe"-tropes. (and it looks like Firis is going to fix that too!)


    ....what I'm saying is we need another otome Atelier game for my personal reasons. But with more gameplay than the psp one had. ...and an actual localization.

    *firm nod*

    EDIT- Or an Atelier BL game! AAAH! I WOULD LOVE THAT! AHAHAHAHAHA! /////

    ..... ahem. Sorry. I uh, I usually try to keep my fujo tendencies under control. ...I... I'll leave now.

    Lovely on
    sig.gif
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    .
    Quiotu wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    Quiotu wrote: »
    Lovely wrote: »
    She's a playable character in plus along with costumes I've heard...

    She's kinda my least favorite of the alchemists though (just found her boring) , so I'm not really fussed about it either way.

    I enjoyed her as being the most open example of what Atelier is about: a young lady who's unabashedly feminine, where that doesn't stop her from adventuring and controlling her fate. Ayesha's the girliest protagonist I've seen in Atelier, but she still goes out and works and learns and does shit she freely admits she has no business doing, all to prove Keith wrong and save her sister.

    And at the end of it, when she asks what it was all about, he tells her to not worry her cute little head about it, to go home, and bake pies.

    Which she does.

    Because she's just a girl whose interests are pies and making friends, and he's the big great all-knowing alchemist.

    I had bit less charitable view of Keith's incessant holier than thou hippy bullshit and Ayesha's (and every character who interacts with him really, all the time, in all the games) complete deference to him in all things.

    Is that why she's wandering around with him, getting herself wanted by authorities for messing with ancient structures and constantly studying? Because last I checked the true ending was her adamantly hanging around Keith to figure it out, which is why she's still hanging around him at the end of Shallie.

    That's an ending I was locked out of because I had the gall to go to an area when it opened instead of backtracking for absolutely no reason to have Keith's wisdom bestowed upon me. :P Which of course, was not revealed until with a year to spare and nothing productive left to do, I checked an FAQ. Gust, masters of game design.

    And I really don't care what they half-ass with a few throwaway lines in one ending and/or in future game. The big denouement to her quest to save her sister from an eldritch plant demigod was being told "You're not worth being told things. Go home and make pies." And she did so, with a merry little smile. That's just plain awful. And Keith went off to browbeat more teenage girls for not being as smart as him.

    ArcTangent on
  • LovelyLovely Registered User regular
    I mean, in Keith's defense, everyone needs a hobby. 8D .


    And his misery (I choose to see) here in this pic is his reward >D .

    6ergckc19fjp.jpg

    "Come and play with us Keithgriff. Forever

    and ever

    and ever."



    I haven't played Shallie yet. So don't ruin this for me.

    sig.gif
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    A lot of the terribleness around Keith comes from their lipservice to how the world was falling into ruin, but not actually wanting to commit to it for fear of spoiling the light fluffiness of Atelier in general. So you've got all this "alchemy is great," "everybody's so lively and doing their bestest," "every possible kind of climate is within walking distance of our town," and "our town has infinite apples!" with the only actual nod towards the doom and gloom is maybe slightly more ruins than other fantasy games. But fantasy games are already populated by 90% ruins to begin with.

    And then there's Keith.

    Everyone: "Alchemy's so awesome!"
    Keith: "No, it's actually very bad."
    E: "Why?"
    K: "Wars. You can't hug children with alchemy arms! And nobody's thinking about the consequences!"
    E: "You mean like all these miraculous devices that have been functioning for the last thousand years, creating a utopia for mankind in uninhabitable regions?"
    K: "Exactly! They never thought about what might happen if they went unmaintained for 950 years, and now look! Unintended consequences!"
    E: "Okay, so what'll it take to fix things?"
    K: "A handful of things from the surrounding area. Maybe a month or two of effort from one person and a handful of bodyguards."
    E: "What's keeping you from doing it?"
    K: "The lack of fucks I have to give, that's what."
    E: "Yay alchemy! But we must also respect alchemy's power to make sure future people won't have to endure our same arduous couple months of work."

    Everything would be so much better if literally anybody would ever stand up to his complete crap. Instead, he lives on an unassailable pedestal of always being super right about everything, despite his insufferable BS being somewhere between superficial nonsense and lipservice.

    ArcTangent on
Sign In or Register to comment.