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[Gotham] Gotham's brain is a bag full of cats

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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    To mitigate one concern, but producing another, and this is sort of vaguely spoilery but not specifically spoilery:
    Supposedly there's a potential Joker in every episode of the first season.

    Hahahaha

    God that's stupid.

    It would be a cool concept if it didn't reinforce the idea of "waiting for things that are probably never going to happen."

    I think it's a pretty cool idea actually.

    I mean...
    If you're going to give someone like the Joker a backstory, you might as well make it multiple choice.

    Foefaller on
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  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    There were good moments in the show, and I hope they don't fall into cheese monster of the week territory. There were also a bit too many silly moments. The opening was just a bit ridiculous. Selina is running across rooftops to steal an empty carton of milk and 20 bucks?

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    To mitigate one concern, but producing another, and this is sort of vaguely spoilery but not specifically spoilery:
    Supposedly there's a potential Joker in every episode of the first season.

    Hahahaha

    God that's stupid.

    It would be a cool concept if it didn't reinforce the idea of "waiting for things that are probably never going to happen."

    I think it's a pretty cool idea actually.

    I mean...
    If you're going to give someone like the Joker a backstory, you might as well make it multiple choice.

    Except that the correct answer is "None of the Above," because it doesn't matter.

    It would be a cool concept for a different show, just not this one.

    Julius
  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    Well... I was planning to watch this tonight but now I'm thinking maybe I should hold off in case it becomes yet another quickly cancelled 1 season wonder...

    Space.
  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    I'm. . . not sure I'll be sticking with this. A guy shoots at a cop, and they're worried that they killed "an innocent man"? Seriously?

    Technically he was innocent of the crime they thought he did.

    They're the Gotham PD pre-Batman. Why do they give a fuck?

    jdarksun
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    ED! wrote: »
    I'm. . . not sure I'll be sticking with this. A guy shoots at a cop, and they're worried that they killed "an innocent man"? Seriously?

    Technically he was innocent of the crime they thought he did.

    They're the Gotham PD pre-Batman. Why do they give a fuck?

    Bullock wouldn't, Gordon definitely.

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    So is Montoya an Objectivist, or does that only apply to the other Question?

  • ClipseClipse Registered User regular
    The decision to make Alfred a soccer hooligan rather than a butler was certainly an interesting choice.

    Juliusoverride367
  • ThisThis BLUDGEON Registered User regular
    This was mostly bad, and mostly because it's a bad idea. There were some things to like though. I liked Bruce. There were some interesting actors.

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/gotham-pilot-209542
    How hard would it have been to have Cobblepot each a raw fish in that last scene? That would have been so much creepier than grabbing a sandwich after killing a guy.

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  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    So is Montoya an Objectivist, or does that only apply to the other Question?

    Sage only, and even then only for his first run.

    O'Neil Sage was more zen, and that's been the main one for comics. Got into mystic stuff for a while before dying, though. JLU version was a conspiracy theorist instead.

    And then there's the New 52 edition. We... don't talk about him.

    Greeper
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/gotham-pilot-209542
    How hard would it have been to have Cobblepot each a raw fish in that last scene? That would have been so much creepier than grabbing a sandwich after killing a guy.

    Hahahahaha

    I didn't even realize

    oh my goodness.

    now it feels like one of those images where porn is made safe for work by editing in ice cream etc.

    DasUberEdward on
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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    So is Poison Ivy going to get a Ph. D in Botany?

    Because if she does, she can go by "Dr. Pepper."

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  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    I'm. . . not sure I'll be sticking with this. A guy shoots at a cop, and they're worried that they killed "an innocent man"? Seriously?

    I just about turned it off right then and there, that was just horrible writing.

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  • JeedanJeedan Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Prohass wrote: »
    I feel like even if they set it a little closer to batman era it would be better, you just know nothing interesting is ever going to happen. They should've set it maybe 5 years or so before batman

    Or, Gotham Central.

    I've heard people say that would be an unpalatable idea, a Batman show where Batman only occasionally appears, but honestly I dont see the issue. MOST Tv shows only have the occasional payoff action sequence a couple times a season for budget reasons. What we're getting now is no batman and anakin skywalker Bruce Wayne, which is no payoff at all. Agents of Shield trucks along just fine (or not, I think its awful for other reasons but the concept seems to work) with no Avengers.

    Also its hilarious how hard that trailer is biting the Nolan visual aesthetic, but even subtle things like the "group of people anxiously standing round watching TV events unfold" shot which happens about 12 times in TDK/R.

    Jeedan on
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  • SorceSorce Registered User regular
    Okay, so here's my thoughts.

    Montoya and Barbara "Not-Yet" Gordon.
    This was a shot for shot, down to almost the dialog, remake of Kathy Kane's introduction in 52 (Batwoman, for those who don't know who that is) with Barbara playing the part of Kathy. Not a fan of making Barbara a Secret Lesbian (because they're never bisexual), and probably making that the reason her and Gordon inevitably split.

    Lil Bat and the Junior Arkhamites, also Alfred.
    They tried to go too heavy too soon. Bruce's introduction (and therefore his parents' murder) should have been episode 3 or 4, after Gordon, Bullock, and all the rest were established. Because now there's too much pressure on Gordon right out of the gate to both clean up the GCPD and solve Thomas and Martha's murder. The former of which doesn't entirely happen, and the latter of which never does.

    Not interested in any other member of the not-quite-rogues' gallery, at all. Hell, it looks like all of Catwoman-girl's scenes were filmed later, because even though she's in a few with other people, it never felt like she was actually there. And don't even get me started on Cobblepot and Nygma.

    Alfred better be redeeming himself pretty damn quick, because this isn't who should be taking care of Young Master Bruce.

    Harvey Bullock, Crispus Allen, All Dem Badges
    Harvey was okay, good even. He was almost written well enough, and Donal Logue did a good job with what he had.

    Crispus was a dick, but him and Montoya working together (in the MCU!) made my heart smile a bit. Too bad they're already "together", and we don't get to see Bullock and Montoya be partners for a while first.

    Sarah Essen is already around? And she's Captain? OHSHI-

    Basically though, this show has a lot in common with the Wonder Woman pilot. Both had nuggets of goodness in there, but there's a lot around those nuggets that needs a shitload of work.

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    I'll be watching this tonight...but now I kinda dread it. I kinda knew it was going to be bad though. I'll report back when I do.

    With that said, it's telling how the writers feel about the audience when they felt the need to change Pam Isley's name to *anvil* Ivy Pepper because they didn't trust that the audience would get that it's Poison Ivy!

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  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    I think they should just abandon the whole young Bruce Wayne angle. Make the show about the Gotham PD and its decline, not another part of the Batman origin story. Like the obligatory
    Gordon telling Bruce Wayne that he killed some patsy is completely unnecessary, especially with that whole scene of him chilling on the roof. I'm 12 and can't know fear! What? Sure bring him back when Gordon ultimately captures the real killer towards the end of the season for the trial and to set up the conflict with Falcony, but let the other characters and story breathe without the oppressive need to include Bruce Wayne in every episode. The pilot has some promise, but the show could very easily ruin itself if it can't decide what its tone is and what/who the story is about.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    I think they should just abandon the whole young Bruce Wayne angle. Make the show about the Gotham PD and its decline, not another part of the Batman origin story. Like the obligatory
    Gordon telling Bruce Wayne that he killed some patsy is completely unnecessary, especially with that whole scene of him chilling on the roof. I'm 12 and can't know fear! What? Sure bring him back when Gordon ultimately captures the real killer towards the end of the season for the trial and to set up the conflict with Falcony, but let the other characters and story breathe without the oppressive need to include Bruce Wayne in every episode. The pilot has some promise, but the show could very easily ruin itself if it can't decide what its tone is and what/who the story is about.
    Gordon telling Bruce to be quiet so he can infiltrate the GCPD to root out its corrupt from inside wasn't needed. They don't need to give away their series plot line like the audience are five year olds. His inspiring speech to Bruce to comfort him after his parents death was abysmal.

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Brainiac 8 wrote: »
    I'll be watching this tonight...but now I kinda dread it. I kinda knew it was going to be bad though. I'll report back when I do.

    With that said, it's telling how the writers feel about the audience when they felt the need to change Pam Isley's name to *anvil* Ivy Pepper because they didn't trust that the audience would get that it's Poison Ivy!

    Yeah, having kid Poison Ivy is one thing I don't get, even without the name change.

    Personally? If you're going to have a kid villain that's going to be the daughter of an abusive father, it shouldn't be Poison Ivy...

    ...It should be Harleen Quinzel.

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  • Element BrianElement Brian Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure that crispus allen said the word freeze at some point so they're just going to make him mr freeze instead

    im ok with this

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  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Jeedan wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    I feel like even if they set it a little closer to batman era it would be better, you just know nothing interesting is ever going to happen. They should've set it maybe 5 years or so before batman

    Or, Gotham Central.

    I've heard people say that would be an unpalatable idea, a Batman show where Batman only occasionally appears, but honestly I dont see the issue. MOST Tv shows only have the occasional payoff action sequence a couple times a season for budget reasons. What we're getting now is no batman and anakin skywalker Bruce Wayne, which is no payoff at all. Agents of Shield trucks along just fine (or not, I think its awful for other reasons but the concept seems to work) with no Avengers.

    Also its hilarious how hard that trailer is biting the Nolan visual aesthetic, but even subtle things like the "group of people anxiously standing round watching TV events unfold" shot which happens about 12 times in TDK/R.

    A slasher flick, from the PoV of the Gotham mooks, where Batman is the (not a) Killer.

    All my dicks.

    Spaffy on
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  • Element BrianElement Brian Registered User regular
    I'd rather they just go Team Starkid route with this

    http://i.imgur.com/qKs9pvw.gif

    21stCentury makes cool Overwatch pixel gifs btw

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  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    If this makes it to season 2 I will be absolutely amazed.

    ObiFett
  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    Is it really that bad?

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Eh gotham wasn't terrible I didn't mind younger bud white and I liked Fish Moody and Bullock. I'd prefer more police less "ZOMG HERES THIS FUTURE BATMAN WHATEVA!" But I'm watching sleepy hollow anyway so I'll tune in until bones takes over the slot or whatever horrible shit fox dumps before sleepy hollow.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Spaffy wrote: »
    Is it really that bad?

    It is. I had low expectations going in and was disappointed.

    edit: "Shiny shoes, mother of god" was actual dialogue and meant to be taken seriously.

    Harry Dresden on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    I think they should just abandon the whole young Bruce Wayne angle. Make the show about the Gotham PD and its decline, not another part of the Batman origin story. Like the obligatory
    Gordon telling Bruce Wayne that he killed some patsy is completely unnecessary, especially with that whole scene of him chilling on the roof. I'm 12 and can't know fear! What? Sure bring him back when Gordon ultimately captures the real killer towards the end of the season for the trial and to set up the conflict with Falcony, but let the other characters and story breathe without the oppressive need to include Bruce Wayne in every episode. The pilot has some promise, but the show could very easily ruin itself if it can't decide what its tone is and what/who the story is about.
    Gordon telling Bruce to be quiet so he can infiltrate the GCPD to root out its corrupt from inside wasn't needed. They don't need to give away their series plot line like the audience are five year olds. His inspiring speech to Bruce to comfort him after his parents death was abysmal.

    That's kinda what pilots are for, though.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Spaffy wrote: »
    Is it really that bad?

    It wasn't super turrible to a casual comic fan like myself. A little bit too many heavy handed "this is a batman character later" but the principals are interesting and it was a pilot, we'll have to see if the show gets its legs or collapses under the weight of being not batman.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    I think they should just abandon the whole young Bruce Wayne angle. Make the show about the Gotham PD and its decline, not another part of the Batman origin story. Like the obligatory
    Gordon telling Bruce Wayne that he killed some patsy is completely unnecessary, especially with that whole scene of him chilling on the roof. I'm 12 and can't know fear! What? Sure bring him back when Gordon ultimately captures the real killer towards the end of the season for the trial and to set up the conflict with Falcony, but let the other characters and story breathe without the oppressive need to include Bruce Wayne in every episode. The pilot has some promise, but the show could very easily ruin itself if it can't decide what its tone is and what/who the story is about.
    Gordon telling Bruce to be quiet so he can infiltrate the GCPD to root out its corrupt from inside wasn't needed. They don't need to give away their series plot line like the audience are five year olds. His inspiring speech to Bruce to comfort him after his parents death was abysmal.

    That's kinda what pilots are for, though.

    Pilot usually don't have that without setting it up properly. It deflates the point when the character is such an incompetent he's got better chances ending up a corpse in Gotham's river tomorrow then going through with it. This wasn't Giles telling Buffy what being a vampire slayer was.

    Harry Dresden on
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    And somehow Gotham has a 95% critic rating on Rotten Tomatoes, and a 90% audience rating.

    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/gotham/

    MrVyngaard
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Harry you say you went into this with low expectations I think you are lying to yourself as you are really needlessy picking on stupid things. Like the mother of god line was a pg-13 way of bullock saying a real swear in its place.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Harry you say you went into this with low expectations I think you are lying to yourself as you are really needlessy picking on stupid things. Like the mother of god line was a pg-13 way of bullock saying a real swear in its place.

    That's what stood out, but it wasn't the only time a character, or Bullock, said stupid shit like that in the pilot. I'd forgive it if it was minor, but the whole show is entrenched in bad writing and acting.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    If Fish Mooney wasn't named that just so the Penguin can say something like "And now I'm having Fish for dinner" when he takes over as crime lord I'll be shocked.

    MrVyngaardJuliusoverride367
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Harry you say you went into this with low expectations I think you are lying to yourself as you are really needlessy picking on stupid things. Like the mother of god line was a pg-13 way of bullock saying a real swear in its place.

    That's what stood out, but it wasn't the only time a character, or Bullock, said stupid shit like that in the pilot. I'd forgive it if it was minor, but the whole show is entrenched in bad writing and acting.

    I really didn't get that feeling at all, but I'm not a huge comic book guy and I was just expecting to be entertained and the show managed that for me at the very least.

    Again I think you are lying to yourself if you claim you went in with low expectations.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Wait did they seriously rename Pamela Isley Ivy Pepper? Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Preacher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Harry you say you went into this with low expectations I think you are lying to yourself as you are really needlessy picking on stupid things. Like the mother of god line was a pg-13 way of bullock saying a real swear in its place.

    That's what stood out, but it wasn't the only time a character, or Bullock, said stupid shit like that in the pilot. I'd forgive it if it was minor, but the whole show is entrenched in bad writing and acting.

    I really didn't get that feeling at all, but I'm not a huge comic book guy and I was just expecting to be entertained and the show managed that for me at the very least.

    Again I think you are lying to yourself if you claim you went in with low expectations.

    I enjoyed some scenes here and there, like the opening. Every scene with Selina was excellent. I even admitted there's a good show buried under there. I like a few characters that they have, like Bullock. What's hard to do is to see that buried under the piles of shit that comes onto the screen through bad writing, bad acting, relying on foreshadowing too much and events not turning out how you'd expect logically to follow
    like the comedian, for one example.
    A lot of that is going to pilot issues, pilots are notoriously shitty even at the best of times - but this was a bad pilot.

    Harry Dresden on
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Bullock and Falcone were above my expectations. Gordon was far below my expectations. Everyone else was exactly where I expected them to be based on the trailer.

    Kind of weird that the most likable characters on the show are the Dirty Cop and Crime Boss.

    Gordon just comes across as fake due to a combination of bad acting, forced dialogue, and the fact that he's an "honest cop" living in a ritzy penthouse.

    Schrodinger on
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  • yurnamehereyurnamehere Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Wait did they seriously rename Pamela Isley Ivy Pepper? Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

    There was a character named Ivy Pepper. There was absolutely nothing else in the show beyond the usage of that first name to suggest that it must be the same character.

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Wait did they seriously rename Pamela Isley Ivy Pepper? Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

    There was a character named Ivy Pepper. There was absolutely nothing else in the show beyond the usage of that first name to suggest that it must be the same character.

    It's in the trailer.

    Kristmas Kthulhu
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