I kind of wish they had just taken the plunge and made a batman tv series, instead of trying to mimic agents of shield.
Just go for it. Smallville worked for the first few seasons, there's no reason you can't get Batman going on TV. Just kind of loosely base it off the Batman:TAS story arcs or whatever until your writers get a feel for how to do him properly. Why do Flash and Green Arrow and tap around Batman?
If this first season was just an introduction and next season the age Bruce 20 years, that'd be great. I say go for it.
I'd be willing to bet they aren't allowed to do one, because they don't want to 'detract' or 'confuse' viewers between the series and the movies.
Like the movie setup isn't confusing enough already.
Considering they're looking at the MCU and salivating, they don't seem to have hit on the idea of actually having one shared universe between all characters.
AFAIK, we've got four current separate universes. The Man of Steel/BvS movie 'verse, the Arrow/Flash 'verse, Constantine and Gotham.
I kind of wish they had just taken the plunge and made a batman tv series, instead of trying to mimic agents of shield.
Just go for it. Smallville worked for the first few seasons, there's no reason you can't get Batman going on TV. Just kind of loosely base it off the Batman:TAS story arcs or whatever until your writers get a feel for how to do him properly. Why do Flash and Green Arrow and tap around Batman?
If this first season was just an introduction and next season the age Bruce 20 years, that'd be great. I say go for it.
I'd be willing to bet they aren't allowed to do one, because they don't want to 'detract' or 'confuse' viewers between the series and the movies.
Like the movie setup isn't confusing enough already.
Considering they're looking at the MCU and salivating, they don't seem to have hit on the idea of actually having one shared universe between all characters.
AFAIK, we've got four current separate universes. The Man of Steel/BvS movie 'verse, the Arrow/Flash 'verse, Constantine and Gotham.
Except it's not confusing to anyone, super-heroes can exist in multiple media with unique depictions simultaneously. Batman's going to to be a hit on tv as much as he'd be in the movies, but they'd rather stick to one media rather then get revenue from both. It's not like Batman is hard to make on tv these days.
It confuses the executives making the decisions.
So do shiny things, or the idea that animated shows can be a success without selling lots of crappy toys.
Again, there's the assumption that viewers are idiots. Not having recognisable Batman characters might not get the point across.
Thing is, there might be something to that. I'm pretty sure that everyone on this board knows comics characters more than the 'average' viewer. They certainly want to show to appeal to a larger group than 'us'.
To try and follow their logic, assume that the target viewer they want watching the show isn't a comic fan, and only knows about these characters from live-action TV and movies. (and doesn't play videogames, because I doubt the people thinking about this think of those at all)
What would the name Edward Nygma mean to our hypothetical viewer? The only live-action appearance he's had close to recently was in Forever, which was released in 95. If he doesn't tell riddles, how will anyone know who he is/will be? Penguin was even earlier than that.
It feels like it's dumbing down to us, because compared to our 'level', it is. That doesn't mean that other people might not need it, and it'll help the shows prospects to have as many viewers as possible able to watch it without feeling lost.
I kind of wish they had just taken the plunge and made a batman tv series, instead of trying to mimic agents of shield.
Just go for it. Smallville worked for the first few seasons, there's no reason you can't get Batman going on TV. Just kind of loosely base it off the Batman:TAS story arcs or whatever until your writers get a feel for how to do him properly. Why do Flash and Green Arrow and tap around Batman?
If this first season was just an introduction and next season the age Bruce 20 years, that'd be great. I say go for it.
All of those shows had a consistent tone though. I still think until Gotham decides whether it wants to be whacky/campy coming of age criminal story, kind of cop procedural, or semi-gritty corruption drama, the show is never going to be high quality.
This episode alone had some savage acts of violence
Eyes clawed out, people shot, people stabbed with broken beer bottles, someone's young lover beaten to death while a crime boss holds your hand
but with also
Whacky old-timey villians who need to kidnap children for the Toymaker! Penguin's mom being all whacky and saying her son was seduced by some temptress! THAT STRUMPET! The Riddler being a bit derpy (at least they walked it back a little)
I get that the show is limited somewhat by its source material, but just pick a tone and go with it. In all honesty, I could enjoy a more campy show, but it has to embrace it and be more aware of it.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I'm waiting for the inevitable episode where the circus rolls into town and we find out that the Graysons are friends with Killer Croc.
The problem is they want to have a Batman show without Batman, but they're too scared to actually not have Batman so the whole thing feels weirdly conflicted as they shoehorn in baby versions of all the villains and spend an inordinate amount of time with young Bruce.
While there was some overall improvement, that main gripe got worse. Hell, as we get farther from the pilot every Bruce Wayne scene will be increasingly problematic because those scenes don't inform Gordon's character at all, they're just there for the creators to go "See, Batman!"
The problem is, before Batman's arrival, Gotham wasn't interesting.
It was a run down city in the hand's of mob bosses.
I mean if you went back to the 50s and 60s and chilled out in NJ, you'd get the same feeling. "Why am I even bothering?"
When Batman showed up and escalated the crazy factor, that's when shit got interesting. This would be better as a batman begins type story and actually show the origin of super villains versus normal crime. Batman has no problem ending normal crime, but once someone with no morals shows up, he's got a bit of a conundrum. Then you get the challenges of the detective, the fighter, and the myth and can explore the batman mythos on a TV show so you can really dedicate it some time and love versus trying to cram shit in a 3 hour movie slot.
People would eat that shit up, I don't give a shit if there's a Batman movie running in parallel.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
The problem is, before Batman's arrival, Gotham wasn't interesting.
It was a run down city in the hand's of mob bosses.
I mean if you went back to the 50s and 60s and chilled out in NJ, you'd get the same feeling. "Why am I even bothering?"
When Batman showed up and escalated the crazy factor, that's when shit got interesting. This would be better as a batman begins type story and actually show the origin of super villains versus normal crime. Batman has no problem ending normal crime, but once someone with no morals shows up, he's got a bit of a conundrum. Then you get the challenges of the detective, the fighter, and the myth and can explore the batman mythos on a TV show so you can really dedicate it some time and love versus trying to cram shit in a 3 hour movie slot.
People would eat that shit up, I don't give a shit if there's a Batman movie running in parallel.
It seems to be a running problem with DC in general that they don't want their superheroes to be super or heroes, and that problem is magnified when they move to a different medium.
They don't want to put Batman on tv because he's a superhero, but they still want to somehow put that universe on television and make money off it.
Nah. They just don't want any other version conflicting with the Batman that's going to show up in BvS.
Like almost everyone has said, the show would be a million times more interesting if they would have gone the Gotham Central Route. Regular cops dealing with the crazy criminals.
I can see the argument, but it still didn't stop them from a Superman Returns movie during a decade long miniseries about Superman.
That was before Marvel/Disney decided to start rolling all the movie heroes together into one universe and then have it pay off beyond anyone's wildest expectations.
They weren't even thinking that they could make TV series and Movies with characters that all link together. Sure you would get the TV show getting its own movie, or a movie getting a shitty TV series spin off with all new actors 10 years after the movie came out.
I think the only guys that had there world branch across multiple mediums and still retain characters and flow was the Matrix series, and most people don't want to remember the other two movies... the video game (enter the Matrix) the MMO. I think the only one people fondly remember is the Animatrix.
I can see the argument, but it still didn't stop them from a Superman Returns movie during a decade long miniseries about Superman.
You mean about the blur...
Despite the name change Clark was a super-hero on that show from the first episode.
I was just making a joke to point out how afraid they were to actually call him Superman. Going as far as letting him be a costumed vigilante running around Metropolis saving people, but not letting him use his actual costume until the end of the final episode. They didn't let him fly either, though that might have been for more budgetary reasons.
I can see the argument, but it still didn't stop them from a Superman Returns movie during a decade long miniseries about Superman.
You mean about the blur...
Despite the name change Clark was a super-hero on that show from the first episode.
I was just making a joke to point out how afraid they were to actually call him Superman. Going as far as letting him be a costumed vigilante running around Metropolis saving people, but not letting him use his actual costume until the end of the final episode. They didn't let him fly either, though that might have been for more budgetary reasons.
No it was a "rule" No tights no flight
A show so ashamed of it's roots that Superman couldn't be superman for a decade.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
actually this is worse than mimicking agents of shield, because for the really big episodes AOS can get one of the big characters to stop by (sam jackson last season), and AOS has a long game plot that ties into the films (even if the first season felt like a holding pattern until Cap 2 aired). This would be like a show about shield 20 years before the avengers, which would be just a show about a spy agency.
and if it was run by inept people they would shoe horn in research professors ranting about asgard and young bruce banner winning the science fair and young black widow in an abusive household
yeah this premise is worse than AOS. I read somewhere that when writing fiction you should ask yourselves:
Is this story about the most interesting time in your character's life?
And if not, why aren't you writing about that?
actually this is worse than mimicking agents of shield, because for the really big episodes AOS can get one of the big characters to stop by (sam jackson last season), and AOS has a long game plot that ties into the films (even if the first season felt like a holding pattern until Cap 2 aired). This would be like a show about shield 20 years before the avengers, which would be just a show about a spy agency.
I'd be shocked if this show isn't awesome.
and if it was run by inept people
Oh, right.
they would shoe horn in research professors ranting about asgard and young bruce banner winning the science fair and young black widow in an abusive household
I'd watch Marvel One-shots about those. Marvel knows how to make great One-Shots.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Watched the new episode last night on Hulu. I'm still not sure about the show. It's in a weird place where it isn't terrible...but it's not that good either. There is a fantastic show underneath it all somewhere, but it's buried underneath layers of mediocre acting, boring subplots, uneven tone, and force feeding the audience winkwinknudgenudge moments.
But with that said, I don't hate the show...it's in a weird in between place for me.
Again, there's the assumption that viewers are idiots. Not having recognisable Batman characters might not get the point across.
Thing is, there might be something to that. I'm pretty sure that everyone on this board knows comics characters more than the 'average' viewer. They certainly want to show to appeal to a larger group than 'us'.
To try and follow their logic, assume that the target viewer they want watching the show isn't a comic fan, and only knows about these characters from live-action TV and movies. (and doesn't play videogames, because I doubt the people thinking about this think of those at all)
What would the name Edward Nygma mean to our hypothetical viewer? The only live-action appearance he's had close to recently was in Forever, which was released in 95. If he doesn't tell riddles, how will anyone know who he is/will be? Penguin was even earlier than that.
It feels like it's dumbing down to us, because compared to our 'level', it is. That doesn't mean that other people might not need it, and it'll help the shows prospects to have as many viewers as possible able to watch it without feeling lost.
Alternatively, you could try making a character's who's interesting on his own merits even if the audience doesn't know who he is or what happens to him later.
Again, there's the assumption that viewers are idiots. Not having recognisable Batman characters might not get the point across.
Thing is, there might be something to that. I'm pretty sure that everyone on this board knows comics characters more than the 'average' viewer. They certainly want to show to appeal to a larger group than 'us'.
To try and follow their logic, assume that the target viewer they want watching the show isn't a comic fan, and only knows about these characters from live-action TV and movies. (and doesn't play videogames, because I doubt the people thinking about this think of those at all)
What would the name Edward Nygma mean to our hypothetical viewer? The only live-action appearance he's had close to recently was in Forever, which was released in 95. If he doesn't tell riddles, how will anyone know who he is/will be? Penguin was even earlier than that.
It feels like it's dumbing down to us, because compared to our 'level', it is. That doesn't mean that other people might not need it, and it'll help the shows prospects to have as many viewers as possible able to watch it without feeling lost.
Alternatively, you could try making a character's who's interesting on his own merits even if the audience doesn't know who he is or what happens to him later.
I'm now imagining our hypothetical network executive as Bender.
"Hahahaha-oh wait, you're serious. HAHAHAHAHAHA!"
Can I just say how absolutely fucked up it is that Alfred said no psychiatrists or therapists for Bruce? A boy who just watched his parents murdered in cold blood. Yeah, Gordon kind of did a wink and nod that it will fuck Bruce up and then they walked it back that no, talking about it never helps Gordon either.
Bruce is burning and cutting himself, those are pretty extreme behaviors that maybe, just maybe deserve professional help. You know, Alfred? Maybe you should call an actual doctor instead of the detective. Like I don't even know why you called him to help?
Can I just say how absolutely fucked up it is that Alfred said no psychiatrists or therapists for Bruce? A boy who just watched his parents murdered in cold blood. Yeah, Gordon kind of did a wink and nod that it will fuck Bruce up and then they walked it back that no, talking about it never helps Gordon either.
Bruce is burning and cutting himself, those are pretty extreme behaviors that maybe, just maybe deserve professional help. You know, Alfred? Maybe you should call an actual doctor instead of the detective. Like I don't even know why you called him to help?
Besides making Alfred look idiotically irresponsible, it would have just been better to have him TRY and take Bruce to a shrink, but have it fail. Part of Alfred's arc that showed in Arkham Origins are both his denial and helplessness with watching Bruce turn into a mentally damaged vigilante.
Can I just say how absolutely fucked up it is that Alfred said no psychiatrists or therapists for Bruce? A boy who just watched his parents murdered in cold blood. Yeah, Gordon kind of did a wink and nod that it will fuck Bruce up and then they walked it back that no, talking about it never helps Gordon either.
Bruce is burning and cutting himself, those are pretty extreme behaviors that maybe, just maybe deserve professional help. You know, Alfred? Maybe you should call an actual doctor instead of the detective. Like I don't even know why you called him to help?
Besides making Alfred look idiotically irresponsible, it would have just been better to have him TRY and take Bruce to a shrink, but have it fail. Part of Alfred's arc that showed in Arkham Origins are both his denial and helplessness with watching Bruce turn into a mentally damaged vigilante.
That's also a great time to namedrop, actually.
"We tried, Mr. Gordon, but Doctor Crane said that such fears were natural, and Bruce's reaction to them not unexpected. The best we can do is weather the storm."
It would be better than what they've been doing with "Oh, Edward Nygma, you and your riddles, everything you say is a riddle, Edward Nygma, you riddle guy you, named Edward Nygma."
Oh, also, lol at Gordon telling Bruce he can't buy the kids what they need. I'm pretty sure Wayne Enterprises could afford to build a really good orphanage. Or a dozen.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
Can I just say how absolutely fucked up it is that Alfred said no psychiatrists or therapists for Bruce? A boy who just watched his parents murdered in cold blood. Yeah, Gordon kind of did a wink and nod that it will fuck Bruce up and then they walked it back that no, talking about it never helps Gordon either.
Bruce is burning and cutting himself, those are pretty extreme behaviors that maybe, just maybe deserve professional help. You know, Alfred? Maybe you should call an actual doctor instead of the detective. Like I don't even know why you called him to help?
Leslie Thompkins ? Anyone at Gotham ever hear of her? Oh shes not gonna be a supervillian though not important.
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It has to set up season 2: "10 years later...".
I wouldn't even be mad.
I'd be willing to bet they aren't allowed to do one, because they don't want to 'detract' or 'confuse' viewers between the series and the movies.
Like the movie setup isn't confusing enough already.
Considering they're looking at the MCU and salivating, they don't seem to have hit on the idea of actually having one shared universe between all characters.
AFAIK, we've got four current separate universes. The Man of Steel/BvS movie 'verse, the Arrow/Flash 'verse, Constantine and Gotham.
Except it's not confusing to anyone, super-heroes can exist in multiple media with unique depictions simultaneously. Batman's going to to be a hit on tv as much as he'd be in the movies, but they'd rather stick to one media rather then get revenue from both. It's not like Batman is hard to make on tv these days.
So do shiny things, or the idea that animated shows can be a success without selling lots of crappy toys.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
My guess is they don't want Batman to be on a show, even with cameos.
Again, there's the assumption that viewers are idiots. Not having recognisable Batman characters might not get the point across.
Thing is, there might be something to that. I'm pretty sure that everyone on this board knows comics characters more than the 'average' viewer. They certainly want to show to appeal to a larger group than 'us'.
To try and follow their logic, assume that the target viewer they want watching the show isn't a comic fan, and only knows about these characters from live-action TV and movies. (and doesn't play videogames, because I doubt the people thinking about this think of those at all)
What would the name Edward Nygma mean to our hypothetical viewer? The only live-action appearance he's had close to recently was in Forever, which was released in 95. If he doesn't tell riddles, how will anyone know who he is/will be? Penguin was even earlier than that.
It feels like it's dumbing down to us, because compared to our 'level', it is. That doesn't mean that other people might not need it, and it'll help the shows prospects to have as many viewers as possible able to watch it without feeling lost.
All of those shows had a consistent tone though. I still think until Gotham decides whether it wants to be whacky/campy coming of age criminal story, kind of cop procedural, or semi-gritty corruption drama, the show is never going to be high quality.
This episode alone had some savage acts of violence
but with also
I get that the show is limited somewhat by its source material, but just pick a tone and go with it. In all honesty, I could enjoy a more campy show, but it has to embrace it and be more aware of it.
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While there was some overall improvement, that main gripe got worse. Hell, as we get farther from the pilot every Bruce Wayne scene will be increasingly problematic because those scenes don't inform Gordon's character at all, they're just there for the creators to go "See, Batman!"
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Taramoor on Youtube
It was a run down city in the hand's of mob bosses.
I mean if you went back to the 50s and 60s and chilled out in NJ, you'd get the same feeling. "Why am I even bothering?"
When Batman showed up and escalated the crazy factor, that's when shit got interesting. This would be better as a batman begins type story and actually show the origin of super villains versus normal crime. Batman has no problem ending normal crime, but once someone with no morals shows up, he's got a bit of a conundrum. Then you get the challenges of the detective, the fighter, and the myth and can explore the batman mythos on a TV show so you can really dedicate it some time and love versus trying to cram shit in a 3 hour movie slot.
People would eat that shit up, I don't give a shit if there's a Batman movie running in parallel.
It seems to be a running problem with DC in general that they don't want their superheroes to be super or heroes, and that problem is magnified when they move to a different medium.
They don't want to put Batman on tv because he's a superhero, but they still want to somehow put that universe on television and make money off it.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Like almost everyone has said, the show would be a million times more interesting if they would have gone the Gotham Central Route. Regular cops dealing with the crazy criminals.
You mean about the blur...
That was before Marvel/Disney decided to start rolling all the movie heroes together into one universe and then have it pay off beyond anyone's wildest expectations.
They weren't even thinking that they could make TV series and Movies with characters that all link together. Sure you would get the TV show getting its own movie, or a movie getting a shitty TV series spin off with all new actors 10 years after the movie came out.
I think the only guys that had there world branch across multiple mediums and still retain characters and flow was the Matrix series, and most people don't want to remember the other two movies... the video game (enter the Matrix) the MMO. I think the only one people fondly remember is the Animatrix.
Despite the name change Clark was a super-hero on that show from the first episode.
I was just making a joke to point out how afraid they were to actually call him Superman. Going as far as letting him be a costumed vigilante running around Metropolis saving people, but not letting him use his actual costume until the end of the final episode. They didn't let him fly either, though that might have been for more budgetary reasons.
While I like Donal Logue, the counterpoint to this is that Terriers is available for streaming on Netflix.
And then bring back Justice League Unlimited.
And Freakazoid.
She has amazing hair care for a street urchin.
No it was a "rule" No tights no flight
A show so ashamed of it's roots that Superman couldn't be superman for a decade.
and if it was run by inept people they would shoe horn in research professors ranting about asgard and young bruce banner winning the science fair and young black widow in an abusive household
yeah this premise is worse than AOS. I read somewhere that when writing fiction you should ask yourselves:
Is this story about the most interesting time in your character's life?
And if not, why aren't you writing about that?
I'd be shocked if this show isn't awesome.
Oh, right.
I'd watch Marvel One-shots about those. Marvel knows how to make great One-Shots.
But with that said, I don't hate the show...it's in a weird in between place for me.
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Then he could give Bruce Wayne fatherly advice.
Alternatively, you could try making a character's who's interesting on his own merits even if the audience doesn't know who he is or what happens to him later.
I ain't watched episode 2 yet, but Jeremy Jahns basically sums up how I feel about the show pretty decently:
I'm now imagining our hypothetical network executive as Bender.
"Hahahaha-oh wait, you're serious. HAHAHAHAHAHA!"
Bruce is burning and cutting himself, those are pretty extreme behaviors that maybe, just maybe deserve professional help. You know, Alfred? Maybe you should call an actual doctor instead of the detective. Like I don't even know why you called him to help?
Like...wow
Besides making Alfred look idiotically irresponsible, it would have just been better to have him TRY and take Bruce to a shrink, but have it fail. Part of Alfred's arc that showed in Arkham Origins are both his denial and helplessness with watching Bruce turn into a mentally damaged vigilante.
That's also a great time to namedrop, actually.
"We tried, Mr. Gordon, but Doctor Crane said that such fears were natural, and Bruce's reaction to them not unexpected. The best we can do is weather the storm."
It would be better than what they've been doing with "Oh, Edward Nygma, you and your riddles, everything you say is a riddle, Edward Nygma, you riddle guy you, named Edward Nygma."
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Leslie Thompkins ? Anyone at Gotham ever hear of her? Oh shes not gonna be a supervillian though not important.