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[League of Legends] So much fun you could burst a blood vessel

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Posts

  • TalithTalith 変態という名の紳士 Miami, FLRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Talith wrote: »
    The fact that games don't end in 20-30 minutes means that the game isn't snow-bally enough or just poorly paced.

    Games will never have an average of 25 minutes without either removing the laning phase, or having the game end on the first fight. Both of these, more or less, negate key portions of the games flow. The map is just too large.

    Yes i know you're salty that they shat all over dominion which you prefer. But that doesn't mean SR should top out at 30 minute games.

    No, I'm saying the game can be condensed into 20-30 minute matches, pushing 35 minutes on the very close "epic" end. This includes a proper laning phase, objective contention, 2-3 major team fights, and ultimately base destruction. SR is arbitrarily long and the fact that it is possible to have 2 hour long games at all despite seriously trying to win is a problem.

    7244qyoka3pp.gif
    Auralynxprogramjunkie
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    Rend wrote: »
    I don't see a problem with that. Teams that take objectives should have advantages.

    This is true, but the game is already snowbally enough that introducing more snowballing mechanics into it is probably a bad idea, and permanent buffs from neutral objective control is DEFINITELY a snowballing mechanic.

    Also I agree with the portal hate. It comes pretty close to invalidating an entire axis of map control.

    Dragon already is a snowbally objective, though. It's just mostly invisible because the only way to track it is to compare visible items or levels at segments of the game where level advantage is comparable.

    That's not a good justification for making it MORE snowbally though.

    programjunkie
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Patch notes for tonight!

    Azir's list of changes is hilarious.

  • PenumbraPenumbra Registered User regular
    Talith wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Talith wrote: »
    The fact that games don't end in 20-30 minutes means that the game isn't snow-bally enough or just poorly paced.

    Games will never have an average of 25 minutes without either removing the laning phase, or having the game end on the first fight. Both of these, more or less, negate key portions of the games flow. The map is just too large.

    Yes i know you're salty that they shat all over dominion which you prefer. But that doesn't mean SR should top out at 30 minute games.

    No, I'm saying the game can be condensed into 20-30 minute matches, pushing 35 minutes on the very close "epic" end. This includes a proper laning phase, objective contention, 2-3 major team fights, and ultimately base destruction. SR is arbitrarily long and the fact that it is possible to have 2 hour long games at all despite seriously trying to win is a problem.

    I am almost positive that if I ever find myself in a match that stretches into the Hundred-twentieth minute I would never play LoL again. Its soul crushing to play an "epic" bronze 1 match that hits a hour and lose after a tenth of a second long misclick, but to double that again and waste 1/12th of a day. Sisyphus would look upon you with pity.

    Switch Friend Code: 6359-7575-9391
    Talith
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    Talith wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Talith wrote: »
    The fact that games don't end in 20-30 minutes means that the game isn't snow-bally enough or just poorly paced.

    Games will never have an average of 25 minutes without either removing the laning phase, or having the game end on the first fight. Both of these, more or less, negate key portions of the games flow. The map is just too large.

    Yes i know you're salty that they shat all over dominion which you prefer. But that doesn't mean SR should top out at 30 minute games.

    No, I'm saying the game can be condensed into 20-30 minute matches, pushing 35 minutes on the very close "epic" end. This includes a proper laning phase, objective contention, 2-3 major team fights, and ultimately base destruction. SR is arbitrarily long and the fact that it is possible to have 2 hour long games at all despite seriously trying to win is a problem.

    Has a 2 hour game ever occurred? I want to say the longest game i've seen in competitive was like 1:10. And these games don't go on because of the specifics of the map (respawn timers are long) but because no one wins a fight in a position where they can close the game out

    That being said, i don't think you can condense the game to a 25 minute average. You've got 10 minutes of laning phase, ~1 team fight for each tower linearlly to the Nexus meaning 3-4 team fights at minimum if you only fight in one lane, Team fight takes 2-3 minutes each so you're at 22 minutes if one team just absolutely shit stomps the other.

    Which is actually about what happens when one team shit stomps the other, sometimes shit stomps are over before 20 minutes. But these cannot be the norm unless winning the laning phase guarantees winning all the team fights or winning the first team fight necessitates winning all the rest.

    The game simply cannot, on average, be that short with the size of the map and the necessity of laning not unless every game is a shit stomp

    Goumindong on
    wbBv3fj.png
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Has a 2 hour game ever occurred?

    Ooooh yes.

  • CyrenicCyrenic Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Patch notes for tonight!

    Azir's list of changes is hilarious.

    Going to channel my inner crumbzz and make a prediction:

    Azir is now the strongest champion in the game. Maybe even hilariously broken OP.

  • Vic_HazardVic_Hazard Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    I don't see a problem with that. Teams that take objectives should have advantages.

    Gold and experience are advantages. The statement that dragon should not be a permanent buff is not that teams that take objectives should not have advantages but that teams that take objectives should not have advantages forever. If the enemy team gets dragon, i can either engage before they have a chance to buy, or i can wait out their gold advantage by skirmishing instead of team fighting. Just like I can wait out a baron buff.

    Gold and experience is pretty permanent though. The alternatives you mention are just other ways to gain that permanent advantage. Wouldn't it be the same way you'd outplay a team with dragon buff?

    Gold and experience are not permanent advantages. Experience caps at level 18. Gold caps at full build. These things get made up over the course of the game.

    A stacking permanent buff does not.

    So your main issue with the new hypothetical dragon buff is that it skews the game at full levels and item builds. Isn't that when we want the game to be over already though, and forevergames is something people have complained about since forever?

    Do you have the same issue with other stacking buffs like Veigars ap building?

  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    Cyrenic wrote: »
    Burnage wrote: »
    Patch notes for tonight!

    Azir's list of changes is hilarious.

    Going to channel my inner crumbzz and make a prediction:

    Azir is now the strongest champion in the game. Maybe even hilariously broken OP.

    in that there is probably some other new stupidass bug that makes him destroyer of worlds. like, the jayce gate times a billion

  • TalithTalith 変態という名の紳士 Miami, FLRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Talith wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Talith wrote: »
    The fact that games don't end in 20-30 minutes means that the game isn't snow-bally enough or just poorly paced.

    Games will never have an average of 25 minutes without either removing the laning phase, or having the game end on the first fight. Both of these, more or less, negate key portions of the games flow. The map is just too large.

    Yes i know you're salty that they shat all over dominion which you prefer. But that doesn't mean SR should top out at 30 minute games.

    No, I'm saying the game can be condensed into 20-30 minute matches, pushing 35 minutes on the very close "epic" end. This includes a proper laning phase, objective contention, 2-3 major team fights, and ultimately base destruction. SR is arbitrarily long and the fact that it is possible to have 2 hour long games at all despite seriously trying to win is a problem.

    Has a 2 hour game ever occurred? I want to say the longest game i've seen in competitive was like 1:10. And these games don't go on because of the specifics of the map (respawn timers are long) but because no one wins a fight in a position where they can close the game out

    That being said, i don't think you can condense the game to a 25 minute average. You've got 10 minutes of laning phase, ~1 team fight for each tower linearlly to the Nexus meaning 3-4 team fights at minimum if you only fight in one lane, Team fight takes 2-3 minutes each so you're at 22 minutes if one team just absolutely shit stomps the other.

    Which is actually about what happens when one team shit stomps the other, sometimes shit stomps are over before 20 minutes. But these cannot be the norm unless winning the laning phase guarantees winning all the team fights or winning the first team fight necessitates winning all the rest.

    The game simply cannot, on average, be that short with the size of the map and the necessity of laning not unless every game is a shit stomp

    Burnage was in a 136 minute ranked game like 6-7 pages ago.

    The game would have to have some very large pacing changes made to squeeze it down to 25-30 minute averages and that means heavy mana changes, itemization changes (less sustain based items, more strategic / champion fighting items), higher gold and xp earned overall, and most likely higher rewards earned for killing champions ahead of you so a good teamfight can help offset a poor lane's performance.

    I firmly believe you can keep the core aspects of the map and gameplay without having restrictively long games.

    7244qyoka3pp.gif
    programjunkie
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    I wasn't actually in that game, just to clarify.

    You can tell because there's nobody with six Triforces.

  • RendRend Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    I wasn't actually in that game, just to clarify.

    You can tell because there's nobody with six Triforces.

    6 triforces is actually the tritriforce of courage and the tritriforce of wisdom combined.

    18 total forces.

    What you really need is 9 triforces, for 27 total forces to assemble the entire tritritriforce, or, the (tri(tri))force

  • TalithTalith 変態という名の紳士 Miami, FLRegistered User regular
    That Azir attack speed buff has taken him from dead last to slightly above Annie... so the second worse in the game. But it's OK I think he catches up to Nautilus by level 5.

    7244qyoka3pp.gif
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Talith wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Talith wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Talith wrote: »
    The fact that games don't end in 20-30 minutes means that the game isn't snow-bally enough or just poorly paced.

    Games will never have an average of 25 minutes without either removing the laning phase, or having the game end on the first fight. Both of these, more or less, negate key portions of the games flow. The map is just too large.

    Yes i know you're salty that they shat all over dominion which you prefer. But that doesn't mean SR should top out at 30 minute games.

    No, I'm saying the game can be condensed into 20-30 minute matches, pushing 35 minutes on the very close "epic" end. This includes a proper laning phase, objective contention, 2-3 major team fights, and ultimately base destruction. SR is arbitrarily long and the fact that it is possible to have 2 hour long games at all despite seriously trying to win is a problem.

    Has a 2 hour game ever occurred? I want to say the longest game i've seen in competitive was like 1:10. And these games don't go on because of the specifics of the map (respawn timers are long) but because no one wins a fight in a position where they can close the game out

    That being said, i don't think you can condense the game to a 25 minute average. You've got 10 minutes of laning phase, ~1 team fight for each tower linearlly to the Nexus meaning 3-4 team fights at minimum if you only fight in one lane, Team fight takes 2-3 minutes each so you're at 22 minutes if one team just absolutely shit stomps the other.

    Which is actually about what happens when one team shit stomps the other, sometimes shit stomps are over before 20 minutes. But these cannot be the norm unless winning the laning phase guarantees winning all the team fights or winning the first team fight necessitates winning all the rest.

    The game simply cannot, on average, be that short with the size of the map and the necessity of laning not unless every game is a shit stomp

    Burnage was in a 136 minute ranked game like 6-7 pages ago.

    The game would have to have some very large pacing changes made to squeeze it down to 25-30 minute averages and that means heavy mana changes, itemization changes (less sustain based items, more strategic / champion fighting items), higher gold and xp earned overall, and most likely higher rewards earned for killing champions ahead of you so a good teamfight can help offset a poor lane's performance.

    I firmly believe you can keep the core aspects of the map and gameplay without having restrictively long games.

    Yes but a game where people are trying to win. Not faffing about. At 60 minutes the respawn time is 67.5 seconds. A single ace means you win the game from mid field easily. At 90 minutes the respawn timer is 1 minute and 55 seconds. Literally enough time for minions to spawn at your base and reach the nexus, any death essentially ends the game at this point because it creates a 4v5 long enough to take every objective on the map. At 2 hours the respawn timer is 2 minutes and 25 seconds. Literally enough time for minions to spawn at your base and kill the enemy nexus without help.

    You simply cannot make the game last 20-30 minutes without taking away the laning phase. Minions hit lanes at about 2 minutes. Laning lasts roughly until a tower is taken down, which is a symmetric factor but about 8 minutes of laning time is reasonable. Laning phase in competitive games ends earlier but games don't really end that much earlier (unless a stomp).

    From there the issue is team fighting and skirmishing actually takes up time and objectives have to be taken by both sides, not just one side. Sitting on your ass and doing nothing while you hold 3/5 caps doesn't win you the game.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • DraygoDraygo Registered User regular
    Generally games go long when either team does not get a decisive advantage in the fighting, Like you trade kills off in teamfights where there is an even amount of power left on both teams after the fight and no ace. Or teams are fighting each other piecemeal and not getting any decisive advantage from any particular fight.

    Or in many cases people die just 1 at a time spaced out and are respawning constantly from both teams.

    It does require you to not have any decisive fights after 50 minutes of game time, if that happens games can drag on.

  • MrGrimoireMrGrimoire Pixflare Registered User regular
    Apparently the secret to repeatedly losing team-builder games with Vi is to put 'Here comes Vi' on repeat. Good to know.

    DasUberEdward
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Oh my god i am playing a game with Mundo and he is playing Mundo Mundo

    wbBv3fj.png
  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Did no one mention the hexakill TT gamemode coming? That'll be fun times

  • skyknytskyknyt Registered User, ClubPA regular
    That new Soraka skin...

    I really like the direction they've taken with her skins, making them be about her putting on more clothes basically, instead of being naked anime girl 24/7.

    Tycho wrote:
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    Mahnmut
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Oh my god i am playing a game with Mundo and he is playing Mundo Mundo

    And we won (they picked Ryze into him, lol) despite being down a jungler for 7 minutes. Plat 3 now

    wbBv3fj.png
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    Did no one mention the hexakill TT gamemode coming? That'll be fun times

    Is the map even big enough? I mean... jesus christ that's going to be a slaughter.

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  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    that's kind of the point, really

    BurnageMoridin889Lord_AsmodeusPenumbraskyknyt
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    Did no one mention the hexakill TT gamemode coming? That'll be fun times

    Is the map even big enough? I mean... jesus christ that's going to be a slaughter.

    Feature, not a bug.

    Can't be any less fun than URF.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Victorious Morgana looks like she's wearing a tent for a dress.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
    Naphtali
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    I like the new jarvan splash

    I would not have realized that the rango splash is new without being told, though. it's higher quality I guess?

  • SproutSprout Registered User regular
    Victorious Morgana looks like she's wearing a tent for a dress.

    So you're saying it's a Morgana skin, then?

    Auralynxskyknyt
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Wonder if J4 could get reworked to play off the Dragonslayer buff somehow. Maybe in the passive?

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  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    instantly refill shyvana's rage when she kills dragon

    liEt3nH.png
  • RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    the cannibalism :(


    Sona continues to deliver. Her level 1 poke with lucian is just brutal against anyone without a lot of sustain.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    instantly refill shyvana's rage when she kills dragon

    Shyvanna gains rage as the enemy team damages dragon and loses rage as her team does

    wbBv3fj.png
  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    why would she calm down about it

    liEt3nH.png
  • RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    She's only half dragon though....

    I mean it's like

    Why doesn't Trynd have a permanent rage bar when people are attacking his wife?

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Roz wrote: »
    She's only half dragon though....

    I mean it's like

    Why doesn't Trynd have a permanent rage bar when people are attacking his wife?

    Life insurance

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Roz wrote: »
    She's only half dragon though....

    I mean it's like

    Why doesn't Trynd have a permanent rage bar when people are attacking his wife?

    Because his wife is always at home these days.

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Roz wrote: »
    She's only half dragon though....

    I mean it's like

    Why doesn't Trynd have a permanent rage bar when people are attacking his wife?

    Life insurance

    more like wife insurance

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  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Roz wrote: »
    She's only half dragon though....

    I mean it's like

    Why doesn't Trynd have a permanent rage bar when people are attacking his wife?

    Because his wife is always at home these days.
    Let's face it, Trynd is pretty stay-at-home as well these days.

    XNnw6Gk.jpg
  • TalithTalith 変態という名の紳士 Miami, FLRegistered User regular
    And he should stay home until crit is reworked and he turns into a real champion.

    7244qyoka3pp.gif
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Looking forward to trying the new Sion tomorrow. Watched Nightblue3 jungle him for several games about a week ago and he looked like a lot of fun.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    I kinda doubt Sion's kit is something I'd really enjoy playing but I really really want to random him in an ARAM so I can allchat choo choooooooooo after every post-6 death.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    The Morgana particles are pretty good. Honestly might make me move away from Blackthorn

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AoDcP9yIwuI

    wbBv3fj.png
This discussion has been closed.