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[Endless] Legend and Space - Endless Space 2 is out! Freebies on Games2gether. See page 16

JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
edited January 20 in Games and Technology
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From the team that brought us thousands of hours of goodness in the form of Endless Space (more on this later) and Dungeon of the Endless, AMPLITUDE Studios has officially released their new 4X game to the masses out of Early Access, and it's got a ton of greatness to offer: Endless Legend. Endless Legend will look a whole lot more familiar in format to strategy fans than Endless Space's interface, as it has a much more traditional layout - HEX GRIDS.

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It is, admittedly, a little busy, but it's absolutely gorgeous looking, especially in motion. The world features a number of factions (8 right now, but if it follows the trend of Endless Space, that will grow in future updates) each of which has a wide spectrum of abilities/features to differentiate them. Given the interface and layout and genre, tons of comparisons to Civ V (and soon Beyond Earth) will inevitably be drawn, but the more I play, the more I can see the direct lineage from Endless Space in pretty much every aspect of the game.

There are four primary currencies in the game, collectively called FIDS: Food, Industry, Dust, and Science - each of these is relatively self-explanatory other than Dust, which is the Endless form of currency (just think of it as gold). Food increases your population, Industry increases your build, Dust allows you to buy things directly, and Science increases your research rate. As you get more population, you can devote them directly to production of one of these resources, or to a slightly more abstract resource called "Command." More on this later.

The world map is divided into "provinces," of which there can be only one city at a time - they can exploit any resource within a province, but where the city is actually located determines how much FIDS you get. As your cities grow, you can expand them (which decreases happiness), and actually level up the squares (which increases happiness) to get a much more robust looking city and different benefits.

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In addition to your major cities which you and competing factions can control, there are minor factions which can have a number of villages within a province. Think of these as a cross between City-States and Barbarians in Civ V. You can buy them off, you can attack them and raze their town, or you can complete a quest which they ask of you in order to befriend and "pacify" them, which will give you access to their unit type for recruitment. This is one of a couple ways that you'll be assigned quests as you expand, giving you periodic goals along your way to conquest which gives you an edge.

Speaking of conquest, combat in this game is top-notch. Your armies can hold multiple units (up to 4 at the start, and 1 hero, but I expect that'll expand later in the game) which move around as a single unit, but when you go into combat, you'll go through a series of screens - first, comparing your armies, then the armies effectively split up into their individual units, fill out the land surrounding them, and it goes into a turn-based tactical combat mode where you have six rounds to attack the opposing army.

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Terrain actually matters (you can't ascend or descend those cliffs), ranged attacks are effective (some units can fire up to 3 or 4 tiles), and units have varying stats depending on what you equip them with. That's right, you craft and equip your own units based off of what technologies are available to you. Want to give your heavies some ranged weapons? Totally doable, provided you've got the resources.

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I'll probably edit in some further description of factions/information on the tech tree/etc as I get further into the game and learn more, but rather than fill up the Steam thread with conversation about this, I felt it deserved its own place for discussion. It's slow, and may take a little to get used to/understand if you're not familiar with Endless Space, but well worth playing and owning. The game is only $35, so go and pick it up. Just take a look at some of the gorgeous screenshots that players have been taking.



Go and play!

Jragghen on
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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited January 20
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    So there was a fair amount of talk about Endless Space up there, but why not get into a bit more detail as well?

    AMPLITUDE Studio's first game, Endless Space, is a 4X game taking place in...you guessed it. Space.

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    The main map of the game takes place at the galaxy level, where specific stars will have systems inside of them. You colonize individual star systems, and can settle on multiple planets within those systems. Buildings/upgrades are applied at the system level, and can impact different planets differently. Just like Endless Legend, you utilize FIDS to build your units and improvements, get science, and do pretty much everything. Planets will have maximum population depending on size/type (not to mention what improvements are present), and output will be heavily dependent upon that population.

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    The tech tree in Endless Space is much more traditional, with branches and prerequisites out the wazoo. However, it branches in four different directions depending on what TYPE of research you're doing, with different sections for military, commerce, exploration, and applied/materials research. This results in a massive amount of variety in what you want to prioritize to tailor to your play style/victory of choice.

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    Endless Space's one area of lacking is its combat. While you need to design and create your different ship types - starting with certain classes which can carry a specific amount of payload, which you then outfit with defensive materials, weapons, and other auxiliary types which alter the cost of the ships, when you actually enter combat you simply choose different stances for three separate phases (offensive, defensive, engineering, stealth, etc) which have different impacts and can "beat" other types, which turns the entire thing into a massive game of rock/paper/scissors. The game is still quite enjoyable, but it often seems to be in spite of the combat mechanics, not thanks to them.

    In addition to normal Endless Space, there's an expansion pack: Endless Space: Disharmony.

    Disharmony includes a complete reworking of the combat system to make it so that builds are much more balanced, and introduces a new faction (Harmony) which is seeking to eliminate Dust from the Galaxy - they're interesting to play as, if nothing else. Additionally, it introduces new siege mechanics, bombardment, land invasions, and a variety of other stuff. Well worth owning.

    At any rate, feel free to bring discussion of Endless Space up, as well!

    e:
    And now, Endless Space 2! Thanks to @Foefaller for the OP
    Foefaller wrote: »
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    Endless Space 2 is the latest 4X game by Aplitude, makers of Endless Space, Endless Legend, and Dungeon of the Endless. Not a direct sequel, it's more of an alternate retelling of ES1, with some new factions and a metaplot involving the Academy, the mysterious place where all Heroes go to learn how to channel Dust, and the ultimate goals of it's founder.

    Though it's obviously a sequel of the first Endless Space, it takes a lot of things from Endless Legend -such as Influence, the Marketplace, Minor factions, a Faction quest that permeates most of the game- with several new things to separate it from both; Gone are EL's Empire plans, instead you have elections every twenty turns between six competing ideologies that determine which laws you can pass for bonuses at an influence per turn cost. Heroes are not only bought with ridiculous amounts of dust and the occasional rare quest, but earned regularly throughout the game based on you actions (you can still eventually buy a new hero from the Marketplace ala Endless Legend if one suiting your needs isn't showing up.) Luxury Resources are now used to increase your system's development level, giving powerful bonuses depending on what resources are used. Exploration is more involved than in ES1, with curiosities to examine on planets, and the need to find new constellations via probes before you can actually travel to them (Warp comes before Wormholes now, and you don't see where the Wormholes are until you can use them) You also now have multispecies empires much like Stellaris, with different species having unique (and often planet-specific) bonuses and political tendencies that can shape what your empire is good at and how they will vote come election time. Most quests, including the Faction quests, have multiple choices and branches that can lead to different rewards and outcomes.

    And of course, you still have all the things that Endless games are known for; The lore with Dust and the Endless, the beautiful locations and battles, and of course, that soundtrack:




    Right now, there are eight Major Factions; The Sophons, the Cravers, the Horatio, the United Empire, the Lumeris, the Vodyani, the Riftborn, and The Unfallen. (The Pilgrims, Amoeba, Hissho and an offshoot of the Harmony from ES1 are still around, but are now minor factions, no sign or mention of the Sowers or Automatons, and outside of Auriga, the Vaulters either)

    The Sophons.



    One of the returning factions from ES1, the Sophons love science and discovery to the point that it makes nearly all other concerns -including personal self-preservation- secondary. Though that just might stem from the fact their preferred approach to science wouldn't look out of place on an episode of Mythbusters. Their Empire Affinity, Omniscience, makes them aware of all the technologies that have been researched in the game, and gain a bonus to science while researching techs that others in the galaxy have yet to, up to 50% for being the first to do so. Coupled with a Scientist-lead government (allowing you to skip a single tech tier) a Sophon empire can have early access to technologies that other empires cannot even begin to research. Their faction quest revolves around their quest to build an AI capable of running their government so they can focus on more important things like science and blowing things up with science, with the results that you except.

    The Cravers



    Second returning faction, the Cravers were created by the Virtual Endless to wage their civil war against the Concrete Endless. After doing their job, the Virtuals rounded up all the Cravers, dropped them on a shithole of a planet, and bombed it back to the stone age... Which really only made them angry. Cravers cannot be at peace as long as there is a Militarist government in power, and Craver pops deplete planets that they live on, eventually making them only produce about half of what they once did, pushing the need to expand and conquer new worlds to keep pace with other empires. Their Empire Affinity, Slave Drivers, makes non-craver pops unhappy and reproduce less often, but produce more FIDSI than they would otherwise. Fear of being eaten, it turns out, is a pretty good motivator. Their faction quest starts when a mysterious Craver ship attacks one of your own... Something that should not happen even during the leanest times.

    The Horatio



    Horatio was a man whose immeasurable wealth was only slightly greater that his insanity. Having enough of ugly people making fun of his unmatched good looks (especially that gorgeous conehead of his), he put himself into cryo suspension and went out into deep space. Eventually, his ship landed on a world full of ancient cloning and genetic engineering technology. Now leading an entire empire full of Horatios, he now ventures out of the stars with the goal to make everything in the galaxy as beautiful as he is. His Faction Affinity, Gene Hunter, allows you to, ah, "process" other species pops in your empire to improve your primary Horatio pops, giving them a lesser form of that species' bonus, but costing more food to maintain and grow your Horatio populations. His faction quest is about some of the very first Horatios, which were made to be exactly like their creator... perhaps TOO much like their creator.

    The United Empire



    The last of the returning playable factions. Descendants of the ancient Mezari clans that once roamed the stars, the recently United Empire is ready to take to the galaxy themselves and achieve their manifest destiny. Their Faction Affinity, Emperor's Will, allows the United Empire to use Influence to by out improvements, ships and even technologies, as well as use it in place of Dust in the Marketplace. They also gain influence at the completion of improvements and ships, regardless of whether Industry, Dust, or Influence was used to build it. Their Faction quest revolves around the Emperor Zelephas' desire to secure his legacy and make sure the Empire remains United after his death, while unraveling the mystery of a potential rebellion that may involve one of your closest allies.

    The Vodyani



    One of the new factions, and my personal favorite. The Vodyani were about to wipe themselves out from over-industrialization until they found ancient relics from the Virtual Endless. Now quasi-energy beings contained in suits known as a "Cloth", the Church of the Virtual Saints now roams the galaxy to preach their faith, search for more relics of the Endless they see as divine, and sucking the life force out of heretics and unbelievers to sustain their existence. Their Affinity is Ship Bound: Rather than living on planets, they instead live of giant Ark ships that anchor to a system to harvest in for resources, with each pop working every colonizable planet simultaneously (i.e if you have an Ark with 3 pops that anchors to a system with 3 planets you can colonize, they do the work of 9 pops, or 3 pops on each of those worlds). They also gather a unique resource, Essence, earned primarily from leeching the colonies of other factions. They can use this to create new pops (they can grow using just food, but it's veeerrry slow) and to build new Ark ships to colonize other parts of the galaxy. Also, they are a single-species empire (lore bits suggest that there is a slave/second-class population kept around for essence from which occasionally worthy prospects arise to take the Cloth themselves and become Vodyani, but mechanically all pops are Vodyani) and colonies you conquer become Hunting grounds and are slowly razed for essence per turn (while arks that are destroyed become remains you can reclaim and rebuild if you can reach them in time). Their faction quest revolves around the hunt for the Heretic that nearly destroyed the Vodyani in a civil war, and to crush the heresy he is trying to spread.

    The Lumeris



    Basically the Space Mafia. The Lumeris are an amphibious race of traders, brokers, business dealers, smugglers and occasionally knee breakers. Though there is technically a traditional government, the de-facto rulers of the faction are the Four Families, who have their fingers in nearly all of the legitimate and illegitimate economic pursuits in the empire. "Technically" pacifists, that's only because large-scale war is bad for business, and in fact their affinity Planet Brokers can make them one of the fastest-expanding empires in the midgame. Instead of colony ships, The Lumeris can simply buy new outposts on systems they've discovered with dust, and then sell those outposts to other factions for a profit (this gets "really" fun when you realize you can start outposts on systems that already have another empire's outpost, kill their outpost using some the available tricks, and then turn around and sell your outpost for maximum trolling potential.) Their faction quest revolves around the primary leader, Jenestra Omalfi'Meos, and the nameless Kid that she uses as her wildcard in the schemes that will make the Lumeris, and the Meos family in particular, as the wealthiest power brokers in the galaxy.

    The Riftborn



    Hailing from an alternate dimension that does not follow the same rules as our universe, the Riftborn were forced out of their existence when a rift was breached between their universe and the Endless galaxy. This caused a corruption that is destroying their reality, leaving with no choice but to send an expedition through the rift in a last-ditch effort to close it and heal their universe. Riftborn pops aren't grown with food, instead they build robotic shells with Industry to house Riftborn coming through the rift, who normally look like white geometric shapes (they still grow food for non-Riftborn pops however). Their Affinity, Continuum Sculptors, allows them to build and deploy time bubbles that can slow down, speed up, and eventually stop and fold time in a system. The faction quest revolves around them trying to find the answers to the rift that threatens to destroy their universe as they deal with this strange, horrifying place with it's black space, orbs of glowing light, this disorienting downward pull known as gravity, curved shapes, noises, smells and, most disturbing of all, organic life.

    The Unfallen



    Hugging Tree Hippies, the Unfallen are the Community-created faction using Amplitude Games2gether system. The Unfallen were content with living a peaceful existence barely aware of even themselves until evidence of the space battle being fought over their homeworld came crashing down and showed them proof of a world beyond their own. Now they venture out to bring harmony to galaxy, for while everything begins with Fire, it does not have to end with Fire. Their Affinity is Celestial Vines; instead of traditional colony ships and influence bubbles, Unfallen use Vineships to "grow" capital V Vines to neighboring systems, after which they can colonize the planets there immediately with no outpost or build time. All Vines have to eventually link back to their homeworld of Koyasil, meaning that if they lose one system in a chain, the lose all the colonies connected to home by that chain. To help with that, they also have the ability to awaken a planet's Guardian, a special pop which will increase the system's approval and make it much, much harder for enemies to successfully invade. Their faction quest revolves around them finding their place in the galaxy, as well as questioning their own origins, something that they had never really done until they become aware of beings other than themselves.

    Anyway, the game is out of Early Access. If you were an early adopter and haven't played in a while I highly recommend you try it again, they made a lot of tweaks with the release patch that fixed a lot of the complaints people had (including diplomacy options other than alliance and tech trading available from start and slowing down the crazy-fast rate of population growth and income from trading companies) They have also added planet-destroying doomsday weapons as well.

    And to finish it off, The 4X trailers they did for launch week, which do a pretty good job of giving an basic overview of the game's mechanics:

    Jragghen on
  • mtsmts Registered User regular
    i have been giving this some time since i played a bit when it was still early access. definitly feels a lot more fleshed out and am liking the new factions you can play.

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    Elvenshae
  • AuralynxAuralynx Typhon Archdemon, House LeviathanRegistered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Also, I'll probably be putting in some stuff for Endless Space, too, since the last thread for that fell off the face of the earth a good year ago, and it's part of the same series so here's as good as spot as any.

    Thread of the Endless is clearly the correct title. Both Legend and Dungeon are pretty decent games!

    Space... what is the point of it? You have no idea.
    There's a megagame on, y'all!
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  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    I very much enjoy playing with the Ardent Mages. Nothing like some sadomasomagic.

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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    I posted in the Steam thread but I'll post here too.

    Generally I've found it really the most useful to research the Extractors/Weapons/Armor for Titanium and Glassteel first, to give your armies a leg up on the roving natives.

    Also, Dust is important. You want to make sure you have a good supply because the game starts selling off your stuff if you go into debt. Including active armies. When winter comes your production of Dust and other resources can drop dramatically so you need a good buffer.

    Project G.I.F.T.B.O.M.B. is completed
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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    I posted in the Steam thread but I'll post here too.

    Generally I've found it really the most useful to research the Extractors/Weapons/Armor for Titanium and Glassteel first, to give your armies a leg up on the roving natives.

    Also, Dust is important. You want to make sure you have a good supply because the game starts selling off your stuff if you go into debt. Including active armies. When winter comes your production of Dust and other resources can drop dramatically so you need a good buffer.

    And, as they say, Winter is Coming in 7-14 turns.

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    Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
    The Disappearance of Inigo Sharpe: Tomas à Dunsanin
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    @Drascin‌

    So, what's your question? :D

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    Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
    The Disappearance of Inigo Sharpe: Tomas à Dunsanin
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    I have been able to try this game a bit. It really feels cool, but I had no bloody idea what I'm doing with the Cultists (can you get more than one province somehow? Maybe conquering other people's cities?), or how cities really work (is city level related to anything, is it just boroughs, what do the boroughs actually do - it says they reduce food income in the FIDSI?). Still, soon as the finances balance a bit (my 3DS kind of stabbed my disposable funds this month), I'm probably going to get this thing. I love 4X games, even if I'm terrible at them, and this game feels... I dunno, smooth.

    There don't seem to be a lot of basic faction designs to make different units though, at least in early game?

    EDIT: Hah, ninja'd asking for me :P

    Drascin on
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Drascin wrote: »
    I have been able to try this game a bit. It really feels cool, but I had no bloody idea what I'm doing with the Cultists (can you get more than one province somehow? Maybe conquering other people's cities?), or how cities really work (is city level related to anything, is it just boroughs, what do the boroughs actually do - it says they reduce food income in the FIDSI?). Still, soon as the finances balance a bit (my 3DS kind of stabbed my disposable funds this month), I'm probably going to get this thing. I love 4X games, even if I'm terrible at them, and this game feels... I dunno, smooth.

    There don't seem to be a lot of basic faction designs to make different units though, at least in early game?

    EDIT: Hah, ninja'd asking for me :P

    :D

    At the start of the game, you'll only have 1 (or so) basic unit chassis. For the Vaulters, that's a ranged unit.

    You'll need to research the others - again, for the Vaulters, the first chassis they can research is a guy in partial power armor, which means he counts as a Cavalry unit. You don't get to research a standard infantry unit until your reach the second era of research (which requires researching 9 techs) - and the Vaulter infantry unit is a single large robot with a sword arm.

    You can get access to other unit types earlier by assimilating a minor race; if you assimilate the Bos centaurs, for instance, you get a cavalry unit. Doing this requires pacifying a Bos village in a region in which you have a city and then spending some influence points (it costs 30 to assimilate the first minor race, IIRC). Assimilating a minor race lets you build their units and adds a small bonus to your empire per pacified village (e.g., assimilating the Sisters of Mercy improves your unit regen by 5% per pacified SoM village anywhere in your empire, in addition to being able to build ... whatever they call their support units).
    is city level related to anything, is it just boroughs, what do the boroughs actually do - it says they reduce food income in the FIDSI?

    There are two things you might mean by city level - one is the population of the city, and one is the level of an individual city tile.

    Each unit of population can be assigned to work towards one of the FISDIs, and for every 2 points of population you get you can build an additional Borough Streets improvement, which expands the size of your city. Population growth is based on food production.

    Each district in a city - the City Center where you founded the city, and each tile with a District improvement like Borough Streets or Cargo Dock - also has a level. They start at level 1, and if you build a district such that it is surrounded by 4 other districts, it levels up to level 2. Level 2 districts provide additional resources and, importantly, happiness (adding a district costs 10 happiness; a level 2 district provides +15 happiness). Some improvements also make level 2 districts provide more stuff - like +2 Science per level 2 district, etc.

    Building Borough Streets reduces the food production of a tile by 1; so, if your tile was originally producing 5 food, building a district there means it will only produce 4 food.

    I think the Cultists are the faction that can't actually build settlers; I haven't played as them yet, so I'm not sure how they actually expand.

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  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    I really should not have bought a new 4X game with so many other things to play, but this looks neat and I needed my free time between now and Thursday euthanized as humanely as possible.

    I've only played as the Drakken so far. My first attempt was a bust due to a bad starting location and sluggish expansion, but game 2 is going smoothly enough. I think I hit a bug with the diplomacy AI. I asked some people for peace, and they all considered the proposal to be so valuable that I got them each to give me a minor technology for free. A few turns later, one of them broke the peace and returned to a state of cold war (for some reason). Fearing an impending attack, I went to see how much reinstating the peace treaty would cost me and...they still considered it just as valuable, and I milked even more tech off them.

    Also, I find that sometimes, when my melee units are in pitched melee combat, if I tell them to reposition or switch targets, they completely ignore my orders. To the point that they skip their turn entirely unless I give them no orders and leave them to their own devices. Is there some sort of undocumented zone of control mechanic that I should know about?
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Drascin wrote: »
    I have been able to try this game a bit. It really feels cool, but I had no bloody idea what I'm doing with the Cultists (can you get more than one province somehow? Maybe conquering other people's cities?), or how cities really work (is city level related to anything, is it just boroughs, what do the boroughs actually do - it says they reduce food income in the FIDSI?). Still, soon as the finances balance a bit (my 3DS kind of stabbed my disposable funds this month), I'm probably going to get this thing. I love 4X games, even if I'm terrible at them, and this game feels... I dunno, smooth.

    There don't seem to be a lot of basic faction designs to make different units though, at least in early game?

    EDIT: Hah, ninja'd asking for me :P
    I think the Cultists are the faction that can't actually build settlers; I haven't played as them yet, so I'm not sure how they actually expand.
    Cultists can't settle cities and auto-raze captured ones, but they can forge alliances with minor factions that go beyond simple pacification, even in distant provinces. I don't understand the exact mechanism yet, though.

    Wyvern on
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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    I really should not have bought a new 4X game with so many other things to play, but this looks neat and I needed my free time between now and Thursday euthanized as humanely as possible.

    Yeah - Endless Legend will do that. :D
    I've only played as the Drakken so far. My first attempt was a bust due to a bad starting location and sluggish expansion, but game 2 is going smoothly enough. I think I hit a bug with the diplomacy AI. I asked some people for peace, and they all considered the proposal to be so valuable that I got them each to give me a minor technology for free. A few turns later, one of them broke the peace and returned to a state of cold war (for some reason). Fearing an impending attack, I went to see how much reinstating the peace treaty would cost me and...they still considered it just as valuable, and I milked even more tech off them.

    1. Peace has a natural expiration after, I think, 10 turns, or you can pay influence to break it sooner. It's possible either happened?

    2. The Drakken's special ability is to basically demand and get peace treaties; I wonder if they coded that as just making the Drakken peace offers super valuable?
    Also, I find that sometimes, when my melee units are in pitched melee combat, if I tell them to reposition or switch targets, they completely ignore my orders. To the point that they skip their turn entirely unless I give them no orders and leave them to their own devices. Is there some sort of undocumented zone of control mechanic that I should know about?

    Did they go first? Units get 1 action in combat, and if they are attacked by the enemies first, they'll spend their action on counterattacking.
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Drascin wrote: »
    I have been able to try this game a bit. It really feels cool, but I had no bloody idea what I'm doing with the Cultists (can you get more than one province somehow? Maybe conquering other people's cities?), or how cities really work (is city level related to anything, is it just boroughs, what do the boroughs actually do - it says they reduce food income in the FIDSI?). Still, soon as the finances balance a bit (my 3DS kind of stabbed my disposable funds this month), I'm probably going to get this thing. I love 4X games, even if I'm terrible at them, and this game feels... I dunno, smooth.

    There don't seem to be a lot of basic faction designs to make different units though, at least in early game?

    EDIT: Hah, ninja'd asking for me :P
    I think the Cultists are the faction that can't actually build settlers; I haven't played as them yet, so I'm not sure how they actually expand.
    Cultists can't settle cities and auto-raze captured ones, but they can forge alliances with minor factions that go beyond simple pacification, even in distant provinces. I don't understand the exact mechanism yet, though.

    Glad I remembered that one!

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  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Forcing a unilateral peace with the Drakken ability is a separate option with a huge influence cost, so that should be unrelated.

    Does peace really auto-expire? Why would they let you make trade treaties that take 20 turns to kick in, if that were the case? I'm not talking about a truce, mind you. I mean going from Cold War to Peace.

    I thought units got one attack and one counterattack? My infantry is indeed very slow, so this would explain it, but I don't recall seeing enemies behave the same way. Although I guess since I only have one melee fighter with passable init, I might have been confusing those counterattacks with enemy turns somehow.

    Wyvern on
    3DS: 0817-4948-1650 || Pokemon X name: Kyrah
  • JesDerJesDer Registered User regular
    Did they fix combat balance at all? last I remember, ranged units completely dominated the game.

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    Forcing a unilateral peace with the Drakken ability is a separate option with a huge influence cost, so that should be unrelated.

    Does peace really auto-expire? Why would they let you make trade treaties that take 20 turns to kick in, if that were the case? I'm not talking about a truce, mind you. I mean going from Cold War to Peace.

    Oh - sorry, I might have mixed that up, then. Truces auto-expire and turn into cold wars when they're done; peaces can be canceled early by paying an influence cost.
    I thought units got one attack and one counterattack? My infantry is indeed very slow, so this would explain it, but I don't recall seeing enemies behave the same way. Although I guess since I only have one melee fighter with passable init, I might have been confusing those counterattacks with enemy turns somehow.

    Nope - 1 action (though some units get bonus counterattacks). So, if your unit gets attacked before it does its normal turn, then it'll just hunker in place when it comes up on the initiative slider.

    Another thing to check is its default order - if your unit decides that it can't reach its target this round, and its default order is "Hold Position," it'll just hang out instead of moving and attacking.

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  • TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    I just bought Endless Legend last night and I'm really excited to give it a go. I own a few 4X games (Sins of a Solar Empire, Civ 4 and 5, Alpha Centauri) but they've never really sunken their hooks into me for one reason or another. I hope this one is able to change this as I'd like to lose myself in another strategy title like I did CK2. I really dig the lore that Amplitude has created for this game and the asthetics looks slick as hell. I also love how the development of this and Dungeon of the Endless has progressed in early access and their own Games2Gether portal where they'll put up polls or surveys about additions to their games as they're being made (some of the newly voted DotE achievements are gonna be real bloody tough, like not installing a major module for the first 5 levels whaaat).

    If we're going to incorporate Endless Space here, can this just be an Amplitude Studios thread? I'd be good to have a space to chirp on about DotE developments and how it plays

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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    I liked Endless Space but the combat escalated to insane difficulty too damn quick. This seems more balanced.

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    JesDer wrote: »
    Did they fix combat balance at all? last I remember, ranged units completely dominated the game.

    As the Vaulters, I start out with a ranged unit and a ranged hero, and it seems to give me a bit of an edge in early battles - but cavalry enemies tend to have higher initiative and Ranged Slayer, which means that they can really eff me up if I'm not careful.

    Late game, I use mixed forces (ranged, cavalry, infantry) in all my armies, so ... ? Maybe?

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    TeeMan wrote: »
    I just bought Endless Legend last night and I'm really excited to give it a go. I own a few 4X games (Sins of a Solar Empire, Civ 4 and 5, Alpha Centauri) but they've never really sunken their hooks into me for one reason or another. I hope this one is able to change this as I'd like to lose myself in another strategy title like I did CK2. I really dig the lore that Amplitude has created for this game and the asthetics looks slick as hell. I also love how the development of this and Dungeon of the Endless has progressed in early access and their own Games2Gether portal where they'll put up polls or surveys about additions to their games as they're being made (some of the newly voted DotE achievements are gonna be real bloody tough, like not installing a major module for the first 5 levels whaaat).

    If we're going to incorporate Endless Space here, can this just be an Amplitude Studios thread? I'd be good to have a space to chirp on about DotE developments and how it plays

    Well, there's still an active DotE thread, so I didn't really want to step on any toes. Doesn't bother me, although I wouldn't be able to contribute anything - I don't own that game.


    In other news, I have a super stupid question. I can't seem to figure out how to build ships. I've got the tech, I've got some cities which border ocean, but can't seem to find how to make them. I'm guessing I have to have city territory over water?

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    I just bought Endless Legend last night and I'm really excited to give it a go. I own a few 4X games (Sins of a Solar Empire, Civ 4 and 5, Alpha Centauri) but they've never really sunken their hooks into me for one reason or another. I hope this one is able to change this as I'd like to lose myself in another strategy title like I did CK2. I really dig the lore that Amplitude has created for this game and the asthetics looks slick as hell. I also love how the development of this and Dungeon of the Endless has progressed in early access and their own Games2Gether portal where they'll put up polls or surveys about additions to their games as they're being made (some of the newly voted DotE achievements are gonna be real bloody tough, like not installing a major module for the first 5 levels whaaat).

    If we're going to incorporate Endless Space here, can this just be an Amplitude Studios thread? I'd be good to have a space to chirp on about DotE developments and how it plays

    Well, there's still an active DotE thread, so I didn't really want to step on any toes. Doesn't bother me, although I wouldn't be able to contribute anything - I don't own that game.


    In other news, I have a super stupid question. I can't seem to figure out how to build ships. I've got the tech, I've got some cities which border ocean, but can't seem to find how to make them. I'm guessing I have to have city territory over water?

    If you've got the tech for boats, all you have to do is move an army into the water* and they'll embark, just like CiV. This takes all of their movement for the round.

    There's a higher-tier research thing which lets you build cargo ports (+5 Industry on every water tile in a city, counts as a district) which only cost 1 movement square to enter and embark your army, allowing for some pretty epic maneuverability.

    * Note that this requires them being on a beach; you can't embark from some cliffsides. Which is kinda awesome.

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  • ApostateApostate Registered User regular
    Kind of a weird question, why is the game only $35? I know it sounds strange but the low price makes me suspicious. Is there a lot of depth to it? Does it lack content for a 4X game?

    DrakeBobble
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Apostate wrote: »
    Kind of a weird question, why is the game only $35? I know it sounds strange but the low price makes me suspicious. Is there a lot of depth to it? Does it lack content for a 4X game?

    The races are much more varied than CiV or Fallen Enchantress, and the tech tree is one of my favorite implementations I've seen in a 4X. The quest model is, also, better than FE's so far (it includes things like, "You have 11 turns to explore as many secret places as you can, in the order we give them to you, for ever-increasing rewards; go!" along with standard "Defeat X enemies" or "Bring some stuff to these people" quests (usually strategic or luxury resources)).

    The number of races is small compared to CiV or FE, though - there are ... 6? ... at the moment, and a 7th that's a reskin of one of the others for people who have Dungeons of the Endless. My personal feeling is that this is much more than made up for by the fact that the races play so differently, but YMMV. In beta, I spent most of the time playing as the Fallen Lords, who are spirits inhabiting powered armor that do not eat food. Like, at all. They live entirely off of Dust (which is kinda like gold, but magical). I'm currently playing as the Vaulters, who get the ability to largely ignore a lot of bad effects from winter and having their cities under siege - but who otherwise play pretty normally, I guess. My next game will probably be as cultists who are, I guess, kinda similar to Venice from CiV, in that they are locked to a single city with a lot of allies from the minor players. Unless I play as the group who gets cities that get up and move?

    I like FE combat a bit better, especially with the latest DLC, because it's got more fine-grained control of your units, but I like EL better than CiV's 1UPT system.

    Upgrading your hero's equipment has much more sensible costs in EL vs. FE, so you can usually kit out your heroes long before you could do the equivalent in FE.

    I think the game's implementations of luxury resources and minor factions are inspired.

    I don't know what to tell you about their pricing decisions, other than that this isn't a AAA game with a cast of hundreds behind it. You won't see an animated Catherine the Great speaking Russian when you exchange diplomatic notes with your rivals-cum-allies. Maybe they looked at CiV's price and adjusted accordingly? I dunno.

    Does that help?

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  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    As time goes on I expect the bonus faction will become a lot more than just a re-skin of the Vaulters. Endless Space did the same thing.

    Jragghen
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Apostate wrote: »
    Kind of a weird question, why is the game only $35? I know it sounds strange but the low price makes me suspicious. Is there a lot of depth to it? Does it lack content for a 4X game?

    Seems like they just picked that price point. It feels like ano AAA game. There is about as much depth as you'd expect from a 4X game like Civ, or similar. Plenty more style and flavour than most 4X games have.

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  • ApostateApostate Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Apostate wrote: »
    Kind of a weird question, why is the game only $35? I know it sounds strange but the low price makes me suspicious. Is there a lot of depth to it? Does it lack content for a 4X game?

    The races are much more varied than CiV or Fallen Enchantress, and the tech tree is one of my favorite implementations I've seen in a 4X. The quest model is, also, better than FE's so far (it includes things like, "You have 11 turns to explore as many secret places as you can, in the order we give them to you, for ever-increasing rewards; go!" along with standard "Defeat X enemies" or "Bring some stuff to these people" quests (usually strategic or luxury resources)).

    The number of races is small compared to CiV or FE, though - there are ... 6? ... at the moment, and a 7th that's a reskin of one of the others for people who have Dungeons of the Endless. My personal feeling is that this is much more than made up for by the fact that the races play so differently, but YMMV. In beta, I spent most of the time playing as the Fallen Lords, who are spirits inhabiting powered armor that do not eat food. Like, at all. They live entirely off of Dust (which is kinda like gold, but magical). I'm currently playing as the Vaulters, who get the ability to largely ignore a lot of bad effects from winter and having their cities under siege - but who otherwise play pretty normally, I guess. My next game will probably be as cultists who are, I guess, kinda similar to Venice from CiV, in that they are locked to a single city with a lot of allies from the minor players. Unless I play as the group who gets cities that get up and move?

    I like FE combat a bit better, especially with the latest DLC, because it's got more fine-grained control of your units, but I like EL better than CiV's 1UPT system.

    Upgrading your hero's equipment has much more sensible costs in EL vs. FE, so you can usually kit out your heroes long before you could do the equivalent in FE.

    I think the game's implementations of luxury resources and minor factions are inspired.

    I don't know what to tell you about their pricing decisions, other than that this isn't a AAA game with a cast of hundreds behind it. You won't see an animated Catherine the Great speaking Russian when you exchange diplomatic notes with your rivals-cum-allies. Maybe they looked at CiV's price and adjusted accordingly? I dunno.

    Does that help?
    Yes, thank you, that helped a lot.

    I think my concern with the price was that the price often tells you how much work went into a game especially when it comes to certain genres. I would expect something like Mark of the Ninja to be $15-25 as it is a platformer game, a very innovative one, but a platformer none the less. You only need a relatively small team to create it as there are only so many moving parts so to speak. Charging ~$20 will still allow you to make back your money. But something like a 4X game is going to be so much bigger in scope (many, many interconnected moving parts) that you would not be able to make it without a large team and a budget that would allow you to sell it for only $35. So my initial reaction to the price was "what did they leave out?"

    So I guess I should then ask you don't feel like they left anything out? Does it have the breadth, or at least come close, to that of other 4X games?

  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    It's a fully featured 4X game. They skipped stuff like fancy intro movies and animated characters in diplomacy menus. Leonard Nimoy doesn't narrate the game. The art is really good. The interface is inspired, similar to how Endless Space's interface put other games of its type to shame. You'll have lots of weighty decisions to make and there is a wide variety of victory conditions. Each faction feels very unique and you get a lot of options for customizing them by focusing their research and choosing which minor factions to integrate. There's tons of natural wonders and resources to exploit. The territory system is great. One city per province works really well, you get great options with meaningful choices in expanding your cities. Amplitude is great at after market support too, all of their games continue to receive polish and refinement after release, with big features and overhauls coming in reasonably priced expansions. If you enjoy fantasy 4X games and you think you'd like to try one that has a refreshing approach mechanically and aesthetically then you could do far worse than Endless Legend. They didn't cut any corners where it matters.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Hmm. The pacing of the "tiers" of research opening up seems a bit out of pace with how quickly you can actually research. I kinda "get" why it's done that way, it just feels unusual. In higher difficulties, I honestly don't kno whow I'd progress.

  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Endless Legend doesn't "come close" to most 4X games, as much as it surpasses some by a decent margin. I enjoy it a lot more than Civ 5 for example, and it doesn't feel like anything's been left out. I think they managed the price by being more efficient with the money.

    Just my opinion though. It feels like a game that could've very well been 50 bucks at launch.

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  • AuralynxAuralynx Typhon Archdemon, House LeviathanRegistered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Hmm. The pacing of the "tiers" of research opening up seems a bit out of pace with how quickly you can actually research. I kinda "get" why it's done that way, it just feels unusual. In higher difficulties, I honestly don't kno whow I'd progress.


    You should've seen how raggedy-assed it felt during Early Access, even when playing the Vaulters for the bonus tech.

    I think my only substantial complaint at this point is that I love the Minor Race system but sort of hate its luck-of-the-draw component in the early game. They all help, but some are much more useful early than others.

    Space... what is the point of it? You have no idea.
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  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    Purchased this last weekend, currently on my 2nd game. Loving it, very smooth experience so far.

    I have had a bit of an issue with combat but it is probably something I'm missing. Seems sometimes units will make up orders and just walk to a spot where they can't attack anyone and then end there turn.

    Really loving the overall design though, first game took some getting used to but in my 2nd game I'm crushing the person I started off next to (Playing Island map style).

    Also the Ended units are just badass, specially when you have a hero that boosts all there stats. I like that lvls on units make a huge difference in how useful they are

  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    Bloody hell the pathing AI in this game really annoys me. The rest of the game is great but there are two routes around the ridge you brain damaged reptile but no you all prefer to cause a huge traffic jam on the lower side so I carefully got you almost around it and then just clicked attack assuming you would be able to go one tile down and attack on your own AND THEN YOU DECIDED TO TRY TO GO ALL THE WAY AROUND to go back down and of course everything else is blocked because of your backing up so everything goes back down again argh /ragequit without saving.

    Drascin on
  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    @Apostate - You're making too much of the pricing. Charging $50 for a game instead of $25 doesn't guarantee you twice as much revenue, even if the game is very good, because demand fluctuates with price as well as quality. The only useful measure of "correct price" is "the one that will result in the highest revenue". That's a nebulous concept, so many different strategies are viable.

    When The Binding of Isaac came out, McMillen wasn't sure what he should charge. For a long time he assumed the game was so bizarre and niche and controversial that he'd have almost almost no customers. He considered just releasing it for free, but Steam wound up being interested and picked it up. They suggested a $10 price tag, but he still wasn't confident in the game's reception, so he went for $5, figuring that at that price at least a few people would buy it as a curiosity.

    The Binding of Isaac goes on to sell over a million copies.

    If the game had cost $10, would the fans have felt that it was worth the price? Yes, certainly. The biggest fans of that game are rabid and it has an enormous amount of content. SHOULD McMillen have charged $10? Who knows! Maybe he would have made more money. Or maybe a large percentage of those million+ customers really DID buy it as a curiosity, and a higher price would have reduced the audience by half or more. Maybe the YouTubers who were responsible for spreading word of mouth around would have overlooked the title and it never would have snowballed into popularity at all. Even in hindsight it's impossible to know for sure.

    So don't treat price as a mark of quality. Selling Endless Legend for $5 would be a huge risk because 4X is a fairly niche genre and getting the right volume of sales to make a profit would be near-impossible. Selling it for $50 or $60 would also be a huge risk, because Amplitude's brand does not have the same draw as Firaxis or Ubisoft or whatever and they might struggle to draw an audience. Even if Endless Legend is as good as or better than Civ V it will never have the same hype and marketing engine.

    So pricing it in the $30-$40 range is not some crazy or suspicious thing to do. It's pretty standard for a developer of their size. I'm pretty sure Europa Universalis 4 and Age of Wonders 3 both released in the same range, and Endless is a far lesser-known IP than either of those.

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    In case this sways anyone, I'm getting a very Basil Poledouris feel from the soundtrack, too.

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Is there just one map in this game, or does it have randomly generated maps?

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Quantronic Dreamgirl Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Is there just one map in this game, or does it have randomly generated maps?

    Randomly Generated. Decent enough variety too.

    Also I really adore this game. Though to people asking at the top of the thread about the Cult: I personally wouldn't play your first game with them. I'm doing my second with them now on a smaller map and their playstyle takes a bit of getting used too.

    Elvenshae
  • Undead MonkeyUndead Monkey Anchorage, AKRegistered User regular
    IGN Pro members, check your e-mail - I just got a free Steam code for this in my inbox.

    I was on the fence about this game w/ CIv: BE on the horizon, so the free code made the decision for me. The more I've seen about it and keep reading about it, though, it's very possible I still would have chosen it over the latter.

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  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    Ow. My space bugs got crunked by a few legions of super fast floaty space robots.

    Minor factions, they said. Nom their heads, they said.

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  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    Yeah, pro-tip. If your Vaulters spawn in the desert on your first turn maybe think about marching them out to greener pastures (literally). My expansion has been hobbled because of population issues and some nasty local minor factions are making life difficult. I'll probably be able to hold on and dig myself out but once I start getting involved with the other factions I'm probably going to be too far behind the power curve to catch up.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    It's an Endless game. I highly recommend starting on Newbie difficulty for your first game. It'll let you deal with road bumps like those.

  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    Nah, I'm cool with getting the hard lessons. It makes victory sweeter.

    Iolo
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Quantronic Dreamgirl Registered User regular
    The desert's not too bad provided you don't get attacked early. Mostly because you should be rolling in a decent amount of Dust to spam out units and take some juicier cities with.

    Though yeah, the games tech gives some crazy advantages to anything on a river/coast line so in general if you're cities not on that and it's available in the province you're doing it wrong.

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