Back at the series 2 finale I’d thought that it was only Coop’s spirit that was trapped in The Black Lodge and that his body returned to the real world possessed by BOB. Doppelcoop I’d written off as Black Lodge weirdness representing his spirit being trapped.
Now it seems that Doppelcoop is his own entity and it was Doppelcoop plus BOB who left while real Coop stayed trapped. No spirit separation stuff at all. This would explain why new series Doppelcoop has been acting very differently to what we’d expect from the usually manic Bob. Doppelcoop seems much more cold, calculating and in charge. I wonder if Bob is now a semi-prisoner? Does Bob want to return to The Black Lodge and Doppelcoop is keeping him back? Mike/Gerard did talk about wanting to be with him again.
I am starting to wonder about this kind of thing.
What if it's not a clean separation between Coop/Dark Coop? Dark Coop definitely has Cooper's skillset. What if Dougie Coop is just Cooper's innocence and sense of wonder? Like, he can't wake up, he's just horribly incomplete. Dougie Coop is the missing piece?
I absolutely believe that it is NOT a clean separation between Coop and his Doppel/Dweller on the Threshold. There is a reading of Twin Peaks that suggests that Cooper's ultimate failure in the Lodge is predicated by his earlier inability to recognize that darkness is an inherent, if nasty, part of the whole. This is why he's unable to overcome his own Doppelganger in the lodge, succumbs to fear, and suffers the consequences.
If you look at the resolution of the Laura Palmer investigation, Cooper is utterly unable to come to terms with Leland's involvement. When Leland is dying, Cooper assures him that Bob did it all, and that Leland was an innocent pawn in all of it. The show arguably makes that interpretation very easy to follow during the initial resolution, but it leaves some hints that it may not be that clear cut. Leland had a "hole where his conscience was", for example. Part of what makes Fire Walk With Me so utterly uncomfortable is the fact that it purposefully blurs the line between Bob and Leland. What if Leland isn't a puppet? What if Bob is just an opportunistic parasite feeding on what Leland is doing?
Cooper fails to recognize this. This is why the Ring is such an important symbol in Fire Walk With Me. It really correlates to and symbolizes Laura's understanding and acceptances of who her abuser is. When she has it, encounters it, she starts to put the pieces together and finally recognize her father as her abuser. That is an extreme necessary, powerful, and overall painful revelation. And in Fire Walk With Me, Cooper explicitly tells Laura not to take the ring. Not to recognize where this evil is coming from, and by extension, not recognize the evil starting to build up within her. Without the ring, Laura arguably would've gone down the same path.
Coop can't recognize the fact that this horror came from within, which is part and parcel to the whole town of Twin Peaks, really. When Coop is in the Lodge, this is why he's overcome with fear. Dark Coop is a part of Cooper's whole. Coop's inability to reconcile this fact is why he gets fragmented in twain the way we're seeing in the new season.
I don't think we're going to get the Cooper we know and love back until Coop and Doppel Coop become one again.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I love that Gordon reaction so much because when it happened I shouted at the TV, "I don't know, man, you wrote this shit! You fucking tell me!" And every time someone uses it in a video, I still have that reaction.
Those park thugs were far too small time to have hitmen. I knew the people thinking they were after Dougie for his debts were barking up the wrong tree. It's clearly all a Doppelcoop thing.
So somebody organised the hit via the swearing smoking lady with the odd music track, now the hit has failed that person has set off a contingency plan in the black dot envelope to kill her and Dougie via ice-pick dwarf. But in the meantime she sent a message to a box in Argentina? Which is presumably something to do with Jeffries? And Doppelcoop sent a message to the same beeping box that then turned into a blob??? Was swearing smoking lady telling Jeffries that she'd failed and Dougie was still alive? Did that trigger the back up plan?
I'm well lost.
Which episode did we see the guy with the black spot envelope in his safe before?
He's called Duncan Todd and he appeared briefly in episode 2. In Vegas. Gave a fat stack of cash to a subordinate and told him to 'tell her she has the job'. Then warned said subordinate from ever getting involved with 'someone like him'.
My streaming service doesn't give you picture previews when fast forwarding through an episode. Just ticks up the time and doesn't show you anything until you press play. Makes it a royal pain in the arse to find clips in previous episodes to remind me what is going on.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I've been watching this as someone who has not seen the original series and am finding it interesting but completely fucking unfathomable. It's like a series of random unconnected vignettes of very very strange people and completely non-nonsensical things going on. It's as if every scene is made to make seemingly everyday things very uncomfortable for the viewer to watch. I think I'm going to stick with it because I want to know what the hell is going on, how it's all connected, and if I can figure anything out myself.
I also can't help but wonder why people who know Not-Dougie and what he's normally like see him the way he is now and don't take him straight to the hospital. The guy is clearly messed and and needs professional medical help.
Yeah, I'm already throwing up my hands in confusion multiple times per episode, so we'll see how long I do stick with it. I'm getting my fill of the 'strange for the sake of being strange' from Fargo Season 3, and this show it taking that idea to the Nth degree while also being incoherent to new viewers. Maybe I'll see if my watching partner, who also hasn't seen the original series, would rather stop watching this (leaving it on the DVR), and go back and watch the original two seasons instead.
So somebody organised the hit via the swearing smoking lady with the odd music track, now the hit has failed that person has set off a contingency plan in the black dot envelope to kill her and Dougie via ice-pick dwarf.
Couple of things about that character that I found interesting: First, apparently his weapon of choice isn't an ice-pick, as I thought as well, but actually an awl. Some people speculate this is significant because awls are used in making shoes, and shoes were a bit of a thing in the original series (Phillip Michael Gerard was connected with shoes, if I remember correctly?). I don't know about that, or if it's too far a stretch, but it is an interesting detail.
Second, the assassin's name in the credits is Ike the Spike.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Maybe I'll see if my watching partner, who also hasn't seen the original series, would rather stop watching this (leaving it on the DVR), and go back and watch the original two seasons instead.
If the new season has been giving you this reaction, it's probably a good idea to try circling back to the start.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
So somebody organised the hit via the swearing smoking lady with the odd music track, now the hit has failed that person has set off a contingency plan in the black dot envelope to kill her and Dougie via ice-pick dwarf.
Couple of things about that character that I found interesting: First, apparently his weapon of choice isn't an ice-pick, as I thought as well, but actually an awl. Some people speculate this is significant because awls are used in making shoes, and shoes were a bit of a thing in the original series (Phillip Michael Gerard was connected with shoes, if I remember correctly?). I don't know about that, or if it's too far a stretch, but it is an interesting detail.
Second, the assassin's name in the credits is Ike the Spike.
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I mean from an intellectual point of view I'm kind of interested in the impressions of someone who never saw the first two seasons or the movie and hearing what on earth they think is going on here
but it's not going to really be an ideal way for a person to spend 18 hours. this is not a reboot or a soft reintroduction. more so than I ever could have imagined, this is season 3.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I mean from an intellectual point of view I'm kind of interested in the impressions of someone who never saw the first two seasons or the movie and hearing what on earth they think is going on here
but it's not going to really be an ideal way for a person to spend 18 hours. this is not a reboot or a soft reintroduction. more so than I ever could have imagined, this is season 3.
No conventional character introductions.
Events are significant, or not, or become significant over time.
Signals, codes and symbols that will remain as such.
Plot that is not solely within the framework of an extended shared conversation with the same 5-7 people in consistent contact with one another.
This is the stuff that could drive a viewer of conventional TV gibbering mad.
Truthfully, the first season does a decent job servicing a sort of inoculation theory/gateway into the impenetrable, formless, visual language that Lynch likes to traffic in. Hell, even Blue Velvet does a decent job as dry run for Twin Peaks in many regards.
Lynch is brilliant with his little mood-altering touches.
Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
A few offhand things that have occurred to me but I was waiting for the new ep:
Lynch, for all his seemingly impenetrable nature, has a fairly consistent inner glossary of terms, even if he is deeply reluctant to impart their meaning to the world. The most critical, I think, is that fact that he is steadfastly referring to the new Twin Peaks as 'an 18 hour movie,' which means that this thing is going to have a conclusive ending of a sort. Feel free to dig back into www.cityofabsurdity.com for his feelings on the failed Mulholland Drive pilot, and he need to figure out an 'ending' for it in order to make it into a self-contained movie. This may be a series, but the overarching approach is one that is meant to conclude.
Maybe I'm crazy, but was the poor sap with the stolen truck living at Dead Dog Farm?
I've decided that Mr Strawberry must've been the warden's missing dog.
Skype:
For reasons I'm not even comfortable to explain yet, I'm getting verrrry nervous about the overt use of Skype in the show. Lynch has commented a great deal on how he and Frost employed Skype to get a lot of the show completed, and I'm thinking this could let to some other things in the can that could shock the ever-living fuck out of all of us, in terms of Skype and its uses for allowing certain reclusive figures to reprise themselves. Figures who were, in fact, admitted using Skype themselves for their professional work prior to vanishing for good.
Most critically, going back to the first episode:
There is a LOT here that is hidden in plain sight. Somebody wanting to see the Twin Peaks sheriff about concerns involving INSURANCE. Roy and Darya giving playing cards to the person in the wheelchair before absconding with Mr C. The god damn coroner in Buck Horn has a fucking Blue Rose right there on her desk when running the prints for Major Briggs.
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TetraNitroCubaneThe DjinneratorAt the bottom of a bottleRegistered Userregular
the noise distortion was diegetic? Nobody seemed to notice it but I wasn't sure if the noise distortion was meant to be in universe or not.
Also, I couldn't tell if anyone was able to seem the guy or not.
Didn't seem clear to me either. But one thing that struck me about the distortion was that it was clearly electrical, which is pretty significant, since electricity in the series is a conduit between the spiritual and physical realms. The fact that most people (except Coop) seem oblivious to things like Mike/The Arm/Lodge symbols, etc, makes me think that the guy is some kind of spiritual/lodge whosamawutsis, and no one else was able to see him. Just my take, though.
Also, did anyone pick up on the fact that
Apparently the last thing DoppelCoop did before leaving Twin Peaks was sneak into the intensive care ward, where Audrey was in a coma? And that when the Doc saw him, he gave a weird look? I think that lends some credence to the theory that was tossed around earlier in the thread regarding Richard. In a very uncomfortable way.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
the noise distortion was diegetic? Nobody seemed to notice it but I wasn't sure if the noise distortion was meant to be in universe or not.
Also, I couldn't tell if anyone was able to seem the guy or not.
Didn't seem clear to me either. But one thing that struck me about the distortion was that it was clearly electrical, which is pretty significant, since electricity in the series is a conduit between the spiritual and physical realms. The fact that most people (except Coop) seem oblivious to things like Mike/The Arm/Lodge symbols, etc, makes me think that the guy is some kind of spiritual/lodge whosamawutsis, and no one else was able to see him. Just my take, though.
Also, did anyone pick up on the fact that
Apparently the last thing DoppelCoop did before leaving Twin Peaks was sneak into the intensive care ward, where Audrey was in a coma? And that when the Doc saw him, he gave a weird look? I think that lends some credence to the theory that was tossed around earlier in the thread regarding Richard. In a very uncomfortable way.
I mean, I did advance that concern, but at the same time,
there's almost no way they could expand on that idea without utterly destroying Coop even if he recovers.
Especially after Episode 6.
EDIT: Sorry, something happened. Spoilers are fixed.
I don't know what character you're thinking of, but almost certainly not. He's not in the case list, and, um, probably too big of a living name to not be listed if so.
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If you look at the resolution of the Laura Palmer investigation, Cooper is utterly unable to come to terms with Leland's involvement. When Leland is dying, Cooper assures him that Bob did it all, and that Leland was an innocent pawn in all of it. The show arguably makes that interpretation very easy to follow during the initial resolution, but it leaves some hints that it may not be that clear cut. Leland had a "hole where his conscience was", for example. Part of what makes Fire Walk With Me so utterly uncomfortable is the fact that it purposefully blurs the line between Bob and Leland. What if Leland isn't a puppet? What if Bob is just an opportunistic parasite feeding on what Leland is doing?
Cooper fails to recognize this. This is why the Ring is such an important symbol in Fire Walk With Me. It really correlates to and symbolizes Laura's understanding and acceptances of who her abuser is. When she has it, encounters it, she starts to put the pieces together and finally recognize her father as her abuser. That is an extreme necessary, powerful, and overall painful revelation. And in Fire Walk With Me, Cooper explicitly tells Laura not to take the ring. Not to recognize where this evil is coming from, and by extension, not recognize the evil starting to build up within her. Without the ring, Laura arguably would've gone down the same path.
Coop can't recognize the fact that this horror came from within, which is part and parcel to the whole town of Twin Peaks, really. When Coop is in the Lodge, this is why he's overcome with fear. Dark Coop is a part of Cooper's whole. Coop's inability to reconcile this fact is why he gets fragmented in twain the way we're seeing in the new season.
I don't think we're going to get the Cooper we know and love back until Coop and Doppel Coop become one again.
I can't be the only one who was afraid he was gonna try to number one in that little utility door behind him, was I?
EDIT:
The guys reaction was justified, this is goddamn delicious.
Thank you, I needed this.
But...DIANE! Took 25 years, but we know she actually exists.
Richard Horne is like the Kylo Ren of Twin Peaks bad guys.
Damn, but Lynch is back and brutal.
KA-rist.
Also “Fuck Gene Kelly you motherfucker”
Probably my favorite bit from this episode honestly.
PSN : Bolthorn
I'm worried that
Oh my god yikes.....
Oh god it sounds so feasible
So somebody organised the hit via the swearing smoking lady with the odd music track, now the hit has failed that person has set off a contingency plan in the black dot envelope to kill her and Dougie via ice-pick dwarf. But in the meantime she sent a message to a box in Argentina? Which is presumably something to do with Jeffries? And Doppelcoop sent a message to the same beeping box that then turned into a blob??? Was swearing smoking lady telling Jeffries that she'd failed and Dougie was still alive? Did that trigger the back up plan?
I'm well lost.
Which episode did we see the guy with the black spot envelope in his safe before?
My streaming service doesn't give you picture previews when fast forwarding through an episode. Just ticks up the time and doesn't show you anything until you press play. Makes it a royal pain in the arse to find clips in previous episodes to remind me what is going on.
TBH, that's good shorthand, especially avoiding some Seinfeldian misunderstanding.
I also can't help but wonder why people who know Not-Dougie and what he's normally like see him the way he is now and don't take him straight to the hospital. The guy is clearly messed and and needs professional medical help.
Ahahahahahaha.
Seriously though. It's very clearly not making any effort at all to be new viewer friendly.
Second, the assassin's name in the credits is Ike the Spike.
If the new season has been giving you this reaction, it's probably a good idea to try circling back to the start.
I mean new Peaks will still be bonkers but atleast you'll have a bit of information to get your bearings.
Twin Peaks has always been bizarre but up until the final episode those elements were being steadily introduced and developed. Now it's full burn.
but it's not going to really be an ideal way for a person to spend 18 hours. this is not a reboot or a soft reintroduction. more so than I ever could have imagined, this is season 3.
No conventional character introductions.
Events are significant, or not, or become significant over time.
Signals, codes and symbols that will remain as such.
Plot that is not solely within the framework of an extended shared conversation with the same 5-7 people in consistent contact with one another.
This is the stuff that could drive a viewer of conventional TV gibbering mad.
Truthfully, the first season does a decent job servicing a sort of inoculation theory/gateway into the impenetrable, formless, visual language that Lynch likes to traffic in. Hell, even Blue Velvet does a decent job as dry run for Twin Peaks in many regards.
Yes. Same guy.
Any idea if
Also, I couldn't tell if anyone was able to seem the guy or not.
Lynch is brilliant with his little mood-altering touches.
Maybe I'm crazy, but was the poor sap with the stolen truck living at Dead Dog Farm?
Skype:
Most critically, going back to the first episode:
Also, did anyone pick up on the fact that
I mean, I did advance that concern, but at the same time,
EDIT: Sorry, something happened. Spoilers are fixed.
I don't know what character you're thinking of, but almost certainly not. He's not in the case list, and, um, probably too big of a living name to not be listed if so.