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[PA Comic] Wednesday, October 15, 2014 - Star Gourds

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited October 2014 in The Penny Arcade Hub
image[PA Comic] Wednesday, October 15, 2014 - Star Gourds

Star Gourds

Star Gourds

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2014/10/15

Read the full story here

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Posts

  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Its like he never heard the phrase "Put your back into it!".

    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
    forty
  • ReplicanttenReplicantten Registered User regular
    It is stupid to do things that insane world regards as sane.

  • AndrewViveirosAndrewViveiros Registered User regular
    WAIT REBELS IS OUT?!?!? WTF! NO ONE TOLD ME

  • king0zymandiasking0zymandias Registered User regular
    Well, I tried watching the first episode and thought both the writing and the animation quality was so bad that it was cringe-worthy. It almost seemed like it's written by a 13 year old. I mean everyone agrees that the prequels were terrible right? Well, guess what? The writing in this show makes the prequels look like the work of Shakespeare. It's that bad.

    theResetButton
  • king0zymandiasking0zymandias Registered User regular
    And the less said about the CG the better. The lack of texturing in environment and the awful rendering makes it look like something a freshman would do after taking an animation course. There's no hair simulation, no subsurface scattering, almost zero range of movement in the face of any characters. So the wookie, who basically is made of 99% hair, looks literally like a piece of shit and every other characters look like lifeless plastic dolls. It's almost impossible to believe that those who made the animation are actually paid professionals. It would be passable as mediocre student work 10 years ago. It's that bad.

  • theResetButtontheResetButton Registered User regular
    They keep releasing Star Wars movies and shows, and all I want is a new X-Wing vs Tie Fighter.

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  • orthancstoneorthancstone TexasRegistered User regular
    That middle panel...I want that on my desktop, my phone, a poster, and more...

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  • Maz-Maz- 飛べ Registered User regular
    Well, I tried watching the first episode and thought both the writing and the animation quality was so bad that it was cringe-worthy. It almost seemed like it's written by a 13 year old. I mean everyone agrees that the prequels were terrible right? Well, guess what? The writing in this show makes the prequels look like the work of Shakespeare. It's that bad.

    Gonna have to agree. It really is pretty bad.

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  • PrimesghostPrimesghost Registered User regular
    I dunno, I watched it with my kids and we really enjoyed it.

  • roflstomproflstomp Registered User regular
    I missed comics that end entirely differently than they started. xD

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    I like to think that Tycho isn't intentionally giving Gabe bad advice to cause him injury, he is himself just so unaccustomed to physical exertion that he seriously thinks you're supposed to lift with your back.

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    I like to think that Tycho isn't intentionally giving Gabe bad advice to cause him injury, he is himself just so unaccustomed to physical exertion that he seriously thinks you're supposed to lift with your back.

    YOUR STAR BURNS, I REQUIRE FROZEN TREATS

    Oh brilliant
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  • fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell CharlottesvilleRegistered User regular
    i kind of thought the leg/back thing was a subtle dig at Rebels not doing the Star Wars thing right.

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  • RubbaDukeeRubbaDukee Registered User regular
    watched it with my girlfriend and neither one of us had any problem with it. worth watching to us if this is the quality it'll be. as far as the animation being terrible, i can't imagine i've somehow gone blind and Disney picks up (basically) an already great looking show and doubt they're going to make it look _worse_

  • InkSplatInkSplat 100%ed Bad Rats. Registered User regular
    Rebels is looking pretty good in my opinion. The Pilot is a pilot. No one should be surprised by that. But the 2nd episode was great. The show is already starting off stronger than Clone Wars, and the Clone Wars ended up amazing once it hit its stride. Given that Rebels is being run by the same people.. why expect any different?

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  • AssuranAssuran Is swinging on the Spiral Registered User regular
    I thought it was great.

    In all honesty, it was like watching one of my Star Wars d6 gaming sessions, so that probably helped. My wife loved it and she's not a big Star Wars nerd, so there's that as well.

  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Props to Tycho for posting about this gamergate lunacy, I think more bigger outlets need to condemn this shit

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  • mykpfsumykpfsu Registered User new member
    edited October 2014
    mykpfsu was warned for this.
    Good job on Gamergate Tycho. Didn't know you learned from late 1930's Germany in how to deal with groups of people, but the Nazi's would be damned proud of you. But not surprising, you've had enough of your staff on the coordination committee, and so long as the death threats happen to the correct people, well then thats fine and no need to speak out against that right? Course seen it plenty of times before. Any pro-gamergate person gets held responsible for any supposed death threat to someone because its so serious. But if the pro-gamergate people get death threats, well thats only from trolls so its no big deal. Cute. Instead you should have just said the immutable truth about the internet. That whole John Gabriel internet dickwad theory is in full effect when there is a large argument on the internet. That once an internet argument gets to a certain point, there is no "moral side", no party to said argument that can claim to be completely virtuous. That all parties to such argument (just like any large groupings of humans anywhere) will contain whack jobs.

    Sterica on
  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    There is a moral side: The one that opposes death threats.

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  • Sharp CypherSharp Cypher Tarpon Springs, FLRegistered User new member
    edited October 2014
    I would think the part where Tycho says "You can’t threaten people with death, and I resent very strongly being made to type that out," could be understood to apply to everyone.

    Sharp Cypher on
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  • BrymBrym Registered User regular
    mykpfsu wrote: »
    Good job on Gamergate Tycho. Didn't know you learned from late 1930's Germany in how to deal with groups of people, but the Nazi's would be damned proud of you. But not surprising, you've had enough of your staff on the coordination committee, and so long as the death threats happen to the correct people, well then thats fine and no need to speak out against that right? Course seen it plenty of times before. Any pro-gamergate person gets held responsible for any supposed death threat to someone because its so serious. But if the pro-gamergate people get death threats, well thats only from trolls so its no big deal. Cute. Instead you should have just said the immutable truth about the internet. That whole John Gabriel internet dickwad theory is in full effect when there is a large argument on the internet. That once an internet argument gets to a certain point, there is no "moral side", no party to said argument that can claim to be completely virtuous. That all parties to such argument (just like any large groupings of humans anywhere) will contain whack jobs.

    I don't think you read the same news post I did. Tycho said that the #gamergate people make many good points, but that they were undermining their own cause by letting extremists into their ranks. Your own rapid Godwinning of the discussion is an example of that. And it's leading to articles like this being the only mainstream exposure that the issue is getting.

    DindoTanisGaslight
  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    The problem, Brym, isn't that the people with legitimate problems with the gaming journalism and gaming industry let extremists into their rank, it's that by identifying as gamergate, THEY joined the extremist ranks.

    The suggestion here is to dissociate from that movement, condemn it, and when people are ready to have an actual debate and conversation, discuss the problems of the gaming journalism edifice like actual human beings.

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  • DindoTanisDindoTanis Registered User regular
    Troll or not, pro or against. You don't threaten someone's life. Period. That was the point of the piece. It had nothing to do with taking a side. And to jump right into comparing his post with the works of the Nazi's? Well . . . That's simply stupid my friend, and very offensive. Peace be with you.

    DjiemCommander ZoomZilla360HodurGreatLimmick
  • chromdomchromdom Working on having a better attitude Oh yeah, I movedRegistered User regular
    Is it me, or does the first reaction of "They're doing it too!" kind of undermine credibility? Especially when no accusation has been made, only a statement that illegal and harmful activity should not take place?

    New out of context sig?
  • dardordardor Registered User regular
    I agree. Death threats are never right. No matter how good other people's points/reasons/logic may be, threatening to kill someone completely wipes out any chance of having a meaningful conversation.

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  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    The problem, Brym, isn't that the people with legitimate problems with the gaming journalism and gaming industry let extremists into their rank, it's that by identifying as gamergate, THEY joined the extremist ranks.

    The suggestion here is to dissociate from that movement, condemn it, and when people are ready to have an actual debate and conversation, discuss the problems of the gaming journalism edifice like actual human beings.

    Pretty much. I'm sort of sad to see Tycho even weigh in on the subject, even though he's approaching the matter obliquely, as all anyone is doing at this point is throwing fuel on the fire.

  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    Over the last few days I switched from my studies on ISIS and human rights, to taking a break and learning about this whole hubbub in the gaming industry.

    Realizing I wanted to keep my sanity, I went back to news about terrorism... since that made infinitely more sense.

    How hard is it for any side on this issue to establish some basic ideological principles: no death threats, treat people like you want to be treated, and no death threats. You can talk about serious issues of social justice and professional integrity without turning it into a high school debated riddled with hate speech.

    Tycho's post is important, because it does apply to everyone willing to slog through this "debate". You must uphold social justice without unfairly weaponizing it, and you must argue for integrity without flushing your own down the toilet.

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  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Djiem wrote: »
    The problem, Brym, isn't that the people with legitimate problems with the gaming journalism and gaming industry let extremists into their rank, it's that by identifying as gamergate, THEY joined the extremist ranks.

    The suggestion here is to dissociate from that movement, condemn it, and when people are ready to have an actual debate and conversation, discuss the problems of the gaming journalism edifice like actual human beings.

    Pretty much. I'm sort of sad to see Tycho even weigh in on the subject, even though he's approaching the matter obliquely, as all anyone is doing at this point is throwing fuel on the fire.

    I would have agreed with you, but I re-read Tycho's post, and I think that he's actually saying what you bolded in my post, and I think it's important to be said, just ignoring it will not solve the issue, it has to be addressed by everyone who's "big" in the gaming industry/community. It's important for people to weigh in and state they're not ok with this, to create an environment where gamergate is not approved of, and doesn't act freely thanks to the silence of all.

    "When your media doesn't represent you, or actively attacks you as it has here, it’s not your media. You’ll have to make your own, and it’s not impossible. It’s more possible now than it has ever been in human history, and you’re reading an example of it at this moment. Go your own way."

    That sounds like a call to the "decent" gamergaters, the people who are upset about journalistic integrity and who have been duped into believing the gamergate movement is about journalism ethics in any way whatsoever. Tycho is telling them to not touch the label gamergate to question journalism ethics, and to go their own way about it. The "example we are reading at this moment" is Penny-Arcade. Penny-Arcade has been critical of gaming journalism for a long time, and never associated with that banner that was created as a harassment organization designed to drive women out of the gaming industry and to suicide, and is in fact now taking a stand: "Death threats are wrong".

    And that's really the single only thing gamergate has ever been about.

    Djiem on
  • PuddingSenatorPuddingSenator Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    The problem, Brym, isn't that the people with legitimate problems with the gaming journalism and gaming industry let extremists into their rank, it's that by identifying as gamergate, THEY joined the extremist ranks.

    The suggestion here is to dissociate from that movement, condemn it, and when people are ready to have an actual debate and conversation, discuss the problems of the gaming journalism edifice like actual human beings.

    So basically, renaming gamergate to something else? I fail to see how that's going to solve anything. Either the new movement will not gain any traction (most likely scenario), or if it does, trolls will flock to it just like they flocked to the old one. And they will do bad things to people under the new name, and we'll be right back to square one. I disagree with the core assertion here that if someone does something bad while claiming to be on your side, you are responsible for their actions. This is the Internet. Trolls exist and they will continue to exist, and they will latch onto anything that gains sufficient publicity.

    The other problem here is that most of the debate is happening on Twitter, a platform that is expressly designed to disincentivize people from discussing things like actual human beings. The reasonable voices get drowned out in the sea of insults, snark, harassment, and bullying, and nobody's mind is changed because you can't change somebody's mind in 140 characters.

    glider
  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    Djiem wrote: »
    The problem, Brym, isn't that the people with legitimate problems with the gaming journalism and gaming industry let extremists into their rank, it's that by identifying as gamergate, THEY joined the extremist ranks.

    The suggestion here is to dissociate from that movement, condemn it, and when people are ready to have an actual debate and conversation, discuss the problems of the gaming journalism edifice like actual human beings.

    So basically, renaming gamergate to something else? I fail to see how that's going to solve anything. Either the new movement will not gain any traction (most likely scenario), or if it does, trolls will flock to it just like they flocked to the old one. And they will do bad things to people under the new name, and we'll be right back to square one. I disagree with the core assertion here that if someone does something bad while claiming to be on your side, you are responsible for their actions. This is the Internet. Trolls exist and they will continue to exist, and they will latch onto anything that gains sufficient publicity.

    The other problem here is that most of the debate is happening on Twitter, a platform that is expressly designed to disincentivize people from discussing things like actual human beings. The reasonable voices get drowned out in the sea of insults, snark, harassment, and bullying, and nobody's mind is changed because you can't change somebody's mind in 140 characters.

    The trolls didn't flock to the old one. They MADE it. They ARE it.
    I'm not suggesting renaming gamergate, I'm suggesting not creating a label, a named mob. Like Tycho said, "go your own way". Penny-Arcade is a good example of how to properly discuss the gaming industry and journalism edifice. Don't gather under some banner, and if you were going to, gather under one that actually IS about journalism. Gamergate is about harassing Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and everyone else who tries to criticize the current state of women in the gaming world, or anyone who identifies as a feminist. That's how it started, that's how it got big, that's ALL it is about.

    If you truly are concerned about journalism, like so many people *suddenly* got recently for whatever reason, just have your own journalism website, blog, whatever. Make a "real" gaming news website or blog. Address what the big sites won't. Discuss stuff that needs to be discussed. Criticize what needs to be criticized.

    Gamergate was never about that, and it can never be.

    Djiem on
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  • PuddingSenatorPuddingSenator Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    Djiem wrote: »
    The problem, Brym, isn't that the people with legitimate problems with the gaming journalism and gaming industry let extremists into their rank, it's that by identifying as gamergate, THEY joined the extremist ranks.

    The suggestion here is to dissociate from that movement, condemn it, and when people are ready to have an actual debate and conversation, discuss the problems of the gaming journalism edifice like actual human beings.

    So basically, renaming gamergate to something else? I fail to see how that's going to solve anything. Either the new movement will not gain any traction (most likely scenario), or if it does, trolls will flock to it just like they flocked to the old one. And they will do bad things to people under the new name, and we'll be right back to square one. I disagree with the core assertion here that if someone does something bad while claiming to be on your side, you are responsible for their actions. This is the Internet. Trolls exist and they will continue to exist, and they will latch onto anything that gains sufficient publicity.

    The other problem here is that most of the debate is happening on Twitter, a platform that is expressly designed to disincentivize people from discussing things like actual human beings. The reasonable voices get drowned out in the sea of insults, snark, harassment, and bullying, and nobody's mind is changed because you can't change somebody's mind in 140 characters.

    The trolls didn't flock to the old one. They MADE it. They ARE it.
    I'm not suggesting renaming gamergate, I'm suggesting not creating a label, a named mob. Like Tycho said, "go your own way". Penny-Arcade is a good example of how to properly discuss the gaming industry and journalism edifice. Don't gather under some banner, and if you were going to, gather under one that actually IS about journalism. Gamergate is about harassing Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and everyone else who tries to criticize the current state of women in the gaming world, or anyone who identifies as a feminist. That's how it started, that's how it got big, that's ALL it is about.

    If you truly are concerned about journalism, everyone have your own journalism website, blog, whatever. Make a "real" gaming news website or blog. Address what the big sites won't. Discuss stuff that needs to be discussed. Criticize what needs to be criticized.

    Gamergate was never about that, and it can never be.

    Having a label and being under a banner gives you the power to demand change. Sure you can say, "If you don't like Kotaku go make a better Kotaku," but that's not really realistic. First of all, I'm not a writer and I don't want to be. I already have a job. "Do it yourself if you think you're so much better" is not a valid response to criticism. Second of all, it would take years and years to even come close to being able to match the popularity of these sites. Acting as a group allows for boycott campaigns, email campaigns, and other attempts to affect change in the established sites.

    I simply don't agree that gamergate is "about harassment." I've never harassed anybody, and none of the people whose opinions I respect on the subject have either. Some people have, and that's really unfortunate. I don't agree that dissolving the whole thing and going back to the status quo is going to solve anything. And yes, that's what you're talking about doing. People have been criticizing games journalism from the sidelines for years, and they've been creating their own sites to try and compete for the same amount of time. Nothing has changed because there has been no organization.

  • Evan WatersEvan Waters Registered User regular
    If anything Tycho did not go nearly far enough- he talked only about the death threats, not the fact that it's all bullshit aimed exclusively at keeping feminists out of video games.

    If you really believe Zoe Quinn slept with a guy just to get a mention in a goddamn blog post (which isn't even the case since the post happened before the relationship is supposed to have begun) I have a bridge in New York to sell you.

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  • SmoogySmoogy Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    I'm really happy I don't know the intricacies of the this gamergate stuff. In my cursory look, the term "gamergate" means "misogyny hidden behind an agenda that is allegedly about journalism ethics, but it's really just bout hatin' on the womenfolk, one particular woman in general." I would have actually thought PA would come down harshly on a side...the obviously right side in this fracas.Then I remember dickwolves...

    Back to the comic at hand...is there something I'm missing in regards to lifting the pumpkin with back or legs? I feel like there's a joke I'm just not seeing...

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  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    I simply don't agree that gamergate is "about harassment."

    You don't "agree" with facts. You acknowledge or deny them.
    I don't agree that dissolving the whole thing and going back to the status quo is going to solve anything. And yes, that's what you're talking about doing.

    That would be a whole lot better than what we have now: organized campaigns of terror and harassment against feminists and people critical of the gaming industry.
    Besides, there's nothing to "solve", besides the problems gamergate created. The gaming journalism is the same as all other media journalism: incredibly incestuous and everyone knows everyone, it spans a big 100 feet or so. There's no need or reason to have boycotts or what have you like you suggested. Having different outlets for information is what we need. New critical looks on the industry is what we need.

    And that's what the people that gamergate is trying to silence are doing: giving the gaming industry a new critical look and a different viewpoint.

    GethkaortiCalica
  • PuddingSenatorPuddingSenator Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    I simply don't agree that gamergate is "about harassment."

    You don't "agree" with facts. You acknowledge or deny them.
    I don't agree that dissolving the whole thing and going back to the status quo is going to solve anything. And yes, that's what you're talking about doing.

    That would be a whole lot better than what we have now: organized campaigns of terror and harassment against feminists and people critical of the gaming industry.
    Besides, there's nothing to "solve", besides the problems gamergate created. The gaming journalism is the same as all other media journalism: incredibly incestuous and everyone knows everyone, it spans a big 100 feet or so. There's no need or reason to have boycotts or what have you like you suggested. Having different outlets for information is what we need. New critical looks on the industry is what we need.

    And that's what the people that gamergate is trying to silence are doing: giving the gaming industry a new critical look and a different viewpoint.

    The facts are this: a bunch of people have used the gamergate hashtag to do really bad, evil things. The rest is narrative. I disagree with your version of the narrative. You call it an "organized campaign of terror." I call it a series of trolls doing what trolls do: being dicks, wherever and whenever they can. Where is this campaign being organized? Are all the gamergate forums that I read where harassment is condemned and harassers reviled just part of misdirection in support of the grand campaign of terror? Or is it possible, just possible, that there's a huge group of people who just think that games journalism sucks and don't, haven't, and won't, harass anybody.

    So you basically say there are no problems to solve, then proceed to state one of the problems that people are trying to solve. Not sure what you're trying to get across there. I agree 100% that we need more outlets for information. We need outlets that are less incestuous, outlets that are less corrupt, and yes, outlets that publish views that are outside the norm, including viewpoints from a feminist perspective.

    I think it would also be cool if the outlets we have could be a little less crappy, which is hard to accomplish without their customers telling them they're crappy and that they won't support them anymore if they keep being crappy. Which is all a boycott is, after all.

    Geth
  • El BananaEl Banana Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    The trolls didn't flock to the old one. They MADE it. They ARE it.

    I'm not gonna call you misinformed because what you're saying is what most sites are reporting.
    However, you really should consider whether or not it's wise to ONLY get your news on the matter from the journalistic entities under fire for corruption, collusion, agenda-driven reporting, deflection of criticism by use of minorities, and being very very close to the subjects they're reporting about.

    PuddingSenator
  • iamnamelessiamnameless Registered User regular
    GamerGate is not about harassment at all, it's just about journalistic integrity. KKK is not about racism at all, it's all about American values and christian morality. ISIS isn't really a terrorist organization, it's all about state building and freedom fighting. Ebola isn't a killer virus, it's all about evolution and natural selection.

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  • OrphaneOrphane Dazzling radiance washes your engine in a gleaming tide. Glory, glory, glory. Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    All I have to say regarding gamergate is: does nobody else think this shit is absolutely fucked? Since when did being on opposing sides (if there are even any) of an internet argument mean that death threats or doxxing people is acceptable behavior? It's appalling. You can have a common cause, and this cause can be righteous, but the moment you allow the people who are doing this to associate with your cause without making the utmost effort to expel them you have already lost. This goes for both sides.

    Orphane on
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  • iamnamelessiamnameless Registered User regular
    Orphane, it's a movement that basically originated on 4chan. There is no other way this could have gone. All the arguments about how trolls don't represent GamerGate crash against this simple fact - it started on 4chan, the cesspit of the internet. It might have attracted a few unwitting souls along the way, but that does not legitimize it in any way.

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  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    Orphane, it's a movement that basically originated on 4chan. There is no other way this could have gone. All the arguments about how trolls don't represent GamerGate crash against this simple fact - it started on 4chan, the cesspit of the internet. It might have attracted a few unwitting souls along the way, but that does not legitimize it in any way.

    That's pretty much the summary. There are tons of people who don't think harassing people is okay, and they say they're part of gamergate to fight the evils of gaming journalism while they were very content with its status before this campaign (it's not like the alleged problems with gaming journalism started in the second half of 2014), but that just gives the harassers the cover they need. Gamergate stays strong, has traction, they send death threats to try and silence feminists and anyone they deem a "SJW", and people think it's only a few trolls, that gamergate is still an ok movement, and so they continue to create a climate of oppression against social change and criticizism of videogames, saying these people try to "destroy gaming".

    Djiem on
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