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[Agents of SHIELD] Age of Inhumans

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Yeah, Fury is a Good Guy, full stop. Stashing money and bases around is smart- look what happened! Cap is just a boy scout with some good points, but the world isn't better off without SHIELD. And he clearly failed to stop Hydra too, so fail on both counts really. Fury is picking up the ball after Cap intercepted and fumbled. Fury handed off to Coulson. Go team S.H.I.E.L.D!

    I have no idea how that turned into a football metaphor...

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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Yeah, Fury is a Good Guy, full stop. Stashing money and bases around is smart- look what happened! Cap is just a boy scout with some good points, but the world isn't better off without SHIELD. And he clearly failed to stop Hydra too, so fail on both counts really. Fury is picking up the ball after Cap intercepted and fumbled. Fury handed off to Coulson. Go team S.H.I.E.L.D!

    I have no idea how that turned into a football metaphor...

    Oh, that kind of ball.

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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    I don't really disagree with Fury that national governments can't have or know what SHIELD had and knew

    I mean would you trust George W Bush with an alien death ray?

    it's just unfortunate HYDRA was in charge the whole time

    override367 on
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    KalnaurKalnaur I See Rain . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    I don't really disagree with Fury that national governments can't have or know what SHIELD had and knew

    I mean would you trust George W Bush with an alien death ray?

    it's just unfortunate HYDRA was in charge the whole time

    Fury: "But we have to defend ourself against aliens!"

    HYDRA Sleeper Agents: "What about, say, a Nazi splinter group?"

    Fury: "Guys, that is awful specific . . ."

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    There's also the fact arming up in every way possible is the only possible thing you could do in hope of not having the human race go bye bye, so better hope Fury or someone gets cracking.

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    KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    Fury probably plays the different backer countries against each other in order to maintain SHIELD's independence. For example, the US probably doesn't want Russia or China to gain access to advanced alien tech and vice versa. Since SHIELD is funded by a lot of different countries, if there's some tech sharing agreement, it's likely that the tech has to be divvied out to everyone. That way, smaller countries would have an incentive for funding SHIELD. However, since lots of countries dislike/distrust/hate each other, there's probably all sorts of arguments over what should be shared. Fury probably plays up those animosities to ensure that talks about tech sharing gets deadlocked. It's also possible that SHIELD manipulates the private sector as well. I doubt oil companies would be too happy if SHIELD shared sustained nuclear fusion with the world. A lot of pharmaceutical companies would go bankrupt if the Extremis formula and the Extremis cure were made public. So there's going to be lots of pressure from businesses to keep all that SHIELD tech locked up.

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    Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    I think it was Nikita that had an episode or two where they did this, it was pretty great and I wouldn't mind seeing shield do it as well.

    Speaking of Nikita Lyndsy Fonseca has joined Agent Carter.

    http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/lyndsy-fonseca-agent-carter-1201338418/

    400px-NikitaS3_Alex.jpg

    Saw this recently, and I'm super excited about it. As a fan of Nikita, I loved her as Alex and I'm really looking forward to seeing her in Agent Carter.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Yeah, Fury is a Good Guy, full stop. Stashing money and bases around is smart- look what happened! Cap is just a boy scout with some good points, but the world isn't better off without SHIELD. And he clearly failed to stop Hydra too, so fail on both counts really. Fury is picking up the ball after Cap intercepted and fumbled. Fury handed off to Coulson. Go team S.H.I.E.L.D!

    I have no idea how that turned into a football metaphor...

    The ball is about to get dunked on by
    ultron.jpg?w=446&h=299&crop=1

    Thanks, Cap.

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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Yeah, Fury is a Good Guy, full stop. Stashing money and bases around is smart- look what happened! Cap is just a boy scout with some good points, but the world isn't better off without SHIELD. And he clearly failed to stop Hydra too, so fail on both counts really. Fury is picking up the ball after Cap intercepted and fumbled. Fury handed off to Coulson. Go team S.H.I.E.L.D!

    I have no idea how that turned into a football metaphor...

    You can be a force for good without being a good person. I think that fits for Fury if anyone. Machiavellian justifications don't make you a good person in the end. Fury is someone who simply gets the job done, and you can't keep your hands clean everytime. What he did to Coulson alone calls into question whether or not he has tortured people to get what he thinks is needed.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Brainiac 8 wrote: »
    I think it was Nikita that had an episode or two where they did this, it was pretty great and I wouldn't mind seeing shield do it as well.

    Speaking of Nikita Lyndsy Fonseca has joined Agent Carter.

    http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/lyndsy-fonseca-agent-carter-1201338418/

    400px-NikitaS3_Alex.jpg

    Saw this recently, and I'm super excited about it. As a fan of Nikita, I loved her as Alex and I'm really looking forward to seeing her in Agent Carter.

    She had way better chemistry with Maggie Q than Shane West did; I liked the first season of Nikita way more than later episodes when they were generally working on opposite sides.

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    AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    I'm looking forward to see what tie in this is going to have with Age of Ultron.

    Possibly second only to Agent Carter in excitement levels.

    Lh96QHG.png
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    ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Yeah, Fury is a Good Guy, full stop. Stashing money and bases around is smart- look what happened! Cap is just a boy scout with some good points, but the world isn't better off without SHIELD. And he clearly failed to stop Hydra too, so fail on both counts really. Fury is picking up the ball after Cap intercepted and fumbled. Fury handed off to Coulson. Go team S.H.I.E.L.D!

    I have no idea how that turned into a football metaphor...

    You can be a force for good without being a good person. I think that fits for Fury if anyone. Machiavellian justifications don't make you a good person in the end. Fury is someone who simply gets the job done, and you can't keep your hands clean everytime. What he did to Coulson alone calls into question whether or not he has tortured people to get what he thinks is needed.

    I think that Hydra probably loved Fury as Director of SHIELD. 95% of his decisions probably were exactly what a Hydra puppet would do in his place. Hell, given the number of Hydra heads, they probably preferred to have a "neutral" figure in charge. He might not have pleased all of the Hydra members all of the time, but I'm sure at pleased at least some of them with every decision he made. He might have been a better "Hydra" director in some ways than anyone in Hydra would have been.

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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    KalnaurKalnaur I See Rain . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Yeah, Fury is a Good Guy, full stop. Stashing money and bases around is smart- look what happened! Cap is just a boy scout with some good points, but the world isn't better off without SHIELD. And he clearly failed to stop Hydra too, so fail on both counts really. Fury is picking up the ball after Cap intercepted and fumbled. Fury handed off to Coulson. Go team S.H.I.E.L.D!

    I have no idea how that turned into a football metaphor...

    You can be a force for good without being a good person. I think that fits for Fury if anyone. Machiavellian justifications don't make you a good person in the end. Fury is someone who simply gets the job done, and you can't keep your hands clean everytime. What he did to Coulson alone calls into question whether or not he has tortured people to get what he thinks is needed.

    I think that Hydra probably loved Fury as Director of SHIELD. 95% of his decisions probably were exactly what a Hydra puppet would do in his place. Hell, given the number of Hydra heads, they probably preferred to have a "neutral" figure in charge. He might not have pleased all of the Hydra members all of the time, but I'm sure at pleased at least some of them with every decision he made. He might have been a better "Hydra" director in some ways than anyone in Hydra would have been.

    I honestly think this is why he handed over SHIELD to Coulson. Fury needed to get out of being the head, and let someone be, as I believe even he said, "the heart". SO it couldn't be Fury restarting SHIELD because he had a very good chance of making the same mistakes as he did the first time around.

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    Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Plus the dude is Srs bsns enough that any order he gave could have enough teeth in it for Hydra to hide half a dozen black ops in.
    Just look at the facility they kept the metahumans in. I am pretty sure Fury never ordered anyone there to experiment to make the metas more powerful and brainwashed.

    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
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    BigWillieStylesBigWillieStyles Expert flipper of tables Inside my mind...Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    I'm looking forward to see what tie in this is going to have with Age of Ultron.

    Possibly second only to Agent Carter in excitement levels.
    I just hope Agent Carter brings in Titanium Man. Because the Cold War will start during Agent Carter presumably, so let's get some well-known Ruskie villains. Bring up Carbonadium.

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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    Oh man, the Cold War Marvel villain roster.

    This is shit is gonna get weird.

    wWuzwvJ.png
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    KalnaurKalnaur I See Rain . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    I think what's fun for me is that generally speaking, the most important Marvel character growing up (for me personally) was Spider-Man, so a lot of what Marvel has pulled out in their movies and such I've been looking up to see their history. It's nice though, to go into most of their current MCU properties with no exacting knowledge of every detail of every character, as it makes it a "new but familiar" experience.

    Which I suppose is a very long way of saying that I have no idea what the Cold War roster of villains looks like and yet I'm still looking forward to this. ;)

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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I think SHIELD and HYDRA's vast unknown assets paid for by taxpayers probably are their world's version of why the F-22 cost 600 billion dollars

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Oh man, the Cold War Marvel villain roster.

    This is shit is gonna get weird.

    Eh.. Marvel's cold war roster is basically a bunch of eeeeevil Ruskies that have either fallen into irrelevance or gone good.

    And a whole buttload of... let's just say Asian characters that probably wouldn't fly in today's climate.

    Anything they conjure up is going to need some serious work to be made interesting.

    Undead Scottsman on
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    chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Do you think it's trademarked?Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    There's also the fact arming up in every way possible is the only possible thing you could do in hope of not having the human race go bye bye, so better hope Fury or someone gets cracking.

    Not really.

    Thor brought up that arming up meant that everyone was paying attention to Earth now. Previously, it was "Oh, those assholes. I think Odin likes them, not worth starting anything." and, in a few specific instances "the planet that one asshole is from. I do not want to go to his asshole planet."

    Now it's on the map. Not the best place to be! Best move might even be finding a galactic power that isn't total assholes (like the Nova corps) and begging for a protection plan. But that's not going to happen.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    There's also the fact arming up in every way possible is the only possible thing you could do in hope of not having the human race go bye bye, so better hope Fury or someone gets cracking.

    Not really.

    Thor brought up that arming up meant that everyone was paying attention to Earth now. Previously, it was "Oh, those assholes. I think Odin likes them, not worth starting anything." and, in a few specific instances "the planet that one asshole is from. I do not want to go to his asshole planet."

    Now it's on the map. Not the best place to be! Best move might even be finding a galactic power that isn't total assholes (like the Nova corps) and begging for a protection plan. But that's not going to happen.

    Six humans from Earth (Well, five humans and an Asgardian) beat back an army of Thanos, also lead by an Asgardian (though really a frost giant)

    I'm guessing most aliens would think twice before committing to an assault on Earth. If five humans + 1 asgardian could do that, what could 7 billion + 1 asgardian do?

    Undead Scottsman on
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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    This is drifting off-topic. The conversation would be better suited to the MCU thread.

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    KalnaurKalnaur I See Rain . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Oh man, the Cold War Marvel villain roster.

    This is shit is gonna get weird.

    Eh.. Marvel's cold war roster is basically a bunch of eeeeevil Ruskies that have either fallen into irrelevance or gone good.

    And a whole buttload of... let's just say Asian characters that probably wouldn't fly in today's climate.

    Anything they conjure up is going to need some serious work to be made interesting.

    I've noted their taste for . . . shall I say "low key" in terms of the show's villains and their suits and such seems the way they're going with Agents of SHIELD. I'm sure they can work something around that gives us villains of a super sort without having to resort to bad racial pastiche and spandex. ;)

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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Pony wrote: »
    yeah Nick Fury is morally shifty as fuck

    which is why in Winter Soldier when Fury is like "No, we can save SHIELD from Hydra!" and Cap is like "What? No, you are part of the problem."

    Fury basically doesn't play well with others.

    He's most certainly a good guy, but that's basically by virtue of him believing that - not as a result of any particular belief that he should obey the rules.

    Which...kind of works? I mean in a world with superheroes who could destroy cities if they just decided to, you can very much argue that it's the only way to live.

    One of the most consistent personality traits Fury has had across all media and all versions (and I'd really be fascinated to find out why it's so consistent, like if the writers of the shows/movies/etc were consciously aware of it, or kind of intuited it from what they read of the comics, or just arrived at it independently as the same solution to the same storytelling problems, or what) is his management style. He runs his organization like a mob family, with close relationships and personal loyalty valued above all else. Like, he's the guy who, in the comics, gets made the head of an international spy agency and decides to staff the upper echelons with all his fat aging WWII buddies. And in AoS, we're told that he only "really trusts" fewer than five people on the entire planet.

    He is hugely averse to delegating authority. In the comics, that was clearly a bit of characterization reverse-engineered to serve the story that was being told: readers wouldn't want 22 pages a month of Nick Fury at a desk, so despite being the head of a spy agency he had to be out in the field every issue, getting shot at and having adventures. He hasn't gotten to do much action in the MCU or in AoS, but in both Cap 2 and the show, we constantly see and hear about "director-only" projects; there are whole SHIELD enterprises that reported straight up to Fury's office and were completely insulated from the rest of the agency.

    It's interesting because it shows both why Fury was the guy who could finally expose Hydra - because his intense paranoia and rampant compartmentalization meant that important puzzle pieces like Coulson and TAHITI and the Providence bases remained beyond Hydra's reach - but he is also why things nearly came completely apart, because that selfsame reliance on personal relationships left him vulnerable to Robert Redford's patrician charm and Bill Paxton's crazy eyes.

    Fury's career was entirely about dragging Hydra out into the day, and with that done, he can bow out of an uncomfortable, ambiguous world that he's not entirely cut out for anyway, and leave things to Coulson, who - with the benefit of a clean slate - can be both more "professional" but also more humane.

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    KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    There's also the fact arming up in every way possible is the only possible thing you could do in hope of not having the human race go bye bye, so better hope Fury or someone gets cracking.

    Not really.

    Thor brought up that arming up meant that everyone was paying attention to Earth now. Previously, it was "Oh, those assholes. I think Odin likes them, not worth starting anything." and, in a few specific instances "the planet that one asshole is from. I do not want to go to his asshole planet."

    Now it's on the map. Not the best place to be! Best move might even be finding a galactic power that isn't total assholes (like the Nova corps) and begging for a protection plan. But that's not going to happen.

    Six humans from Earth (Well, five humans and an Asgardian) beat back an army of Thanos, also lead by an Asgardian (though really a frost giant)

    I'm guessing most aliens would think twice before committing to an assault on Earth. If five humans + 1 asgardian could do that, what could 7 billion + 1 asgardian do?

    Or other aliens might think humans have the potential to become too dangerous in the future and decide to nuke the earth from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    There's also the fact arming up in every way possible is the only possible thing you could do in hope of not having the human race go bye bye, so better hope Fury or someone gets cracking.

    Not really.

    Thor brought up that arming up meant that everyone was paying attention to Earth now. Previously, it was "Oh, those assholes. I think Odin likes them, not worth starting anything." and, in a few specific instances "the planet that one asshole is from. I do not want to go to his asshole planet."

    Now it's on the map. Not the best place to be! Best move might even be finding a galactic power that isn't total assholes (like the Nova corps) and begging for a protection plan. But that's not going to happen.

    Six humans from Earth (Well, five humans and an Asgardian) beat back an army of Thanos, also lead by an Asgardian (though really a frost giant)

    I'm guessing most aliens would think twice before committing to an assault on Earth. If five humans + 1 asgardian could do that, what could 7 billion + 1 asgardian do?

    Or other aliens might think humans have the potential to become too dangerous in the future and decide to nuke the earth from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

    That's how we get Kree.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    There's also the fact arming up in every way possible is the only possible thing you could do in hope of not having the human race go bye bye, so better hope Fury or someone gets cracking.

    Not really.

    Thor brought up that arming up meant that everyone was paying attention to Earth now. Previously, it was "Oh, those assholes. I think Odin likes them, not worth starting anything." and, in a few specific instances "the planet that one asshole is from. I do not want to go to his asshole planet."

    Now it's on the map. Not the best place to be! Best move might even be finding a galactic power that isn't total assholes (like the Nova corps) and begging for a protection plan. But that's not going to happen.

    Six humans from Earth (Well, five humans and an Asgardian) beat back an army of Thanos, also lead by an Asgardian (though really a frost giant)

    I'm guessing most aliens would think twice before committing to an assault on Earth. If five humans + 1 asgardian could do that, what could 7 billion + 1 asgardian do?

    Or other aliens might think humans have the potential to become too dangerous in the future and decide to nuke the earth from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

    "Yeah, but what if we nuke them, and some survive?"
    "If that happens, we will be boned."

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    So with the announcements today, speculation
    Skye's totally an Inhuman.

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    KalnaurKalnaur I See Rain . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    So with the announcements today, speculation
    Skye's totally an Inhuman.
    I'd assumed that since the end of Season 1. :biggrin:

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    So with the announcements today, speculation
    Skye's totally an Inhuman.

    Continued speculation on your speculation
    4553277701_32fefab169_z-300x200.jpg

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    Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    So, assuming this gets a third season, Civil War will release with 2-3 episodes to go. That might be the place to deal with Tony and Steve learning about Coulson.

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    So, assuming this gets a third season, Civil War will release with 2-3 episodes to go. That might be the place to deal with Tony and Steve learning about Coulson.

    Has there been / will there ever be any setup that movie fans would have to watch the show to pick something up? I mean, the movie franchise is the big moneymaker now; some fans might be put off if they go watch Captain America 3 and suddenly be like, "What? When did they find out about Coulson?!"

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    DeaderinredDeaderinred Registered User regular
    if anyone cared about knowing if coulson is alive or not they would be watching the show.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    So, assuming this gets a third season, Civil War will release with 2-3 episodes to go. That might be the place to deal with Tony and Steve learning about Coulson.

    Has there been / will there ever be any setup that movie fans would have to watch the show to pick something up? I mean, the movie franchise is the big moneymaker now; some fans might be put off if they go watch Captain America 3 and suddenly be like, "What? When did they find out about Coulson?!"

    Not really. It'd be informative to see Winter Soldier before the second half of season 1, perhaps any Thor movie to recognize Sif.

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    KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    I really hope that they use AoS to set the stage for Civil War, or at least deal with some of the themes of the movie.

    The show missed a huge opportunity in season 1 by not having some plots about SHIELD's lack of oversight, using fear of the various threats to expand its power/authority, and the potential for abuse.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    I really hope that they use AoS to set the stage for Civil War, or at least deal with some of the themes of the movie.

    The show missed a huge opportunity in season 1 by not having some plots about SHIELD's lack of oversight, using fear of the various threats to expand its power/authority, and the potential for abuse.

    They implied it. Didn't want to foreshadow HYDRA too much, I suppose.

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    jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    The first half of the season was slow paced enough without dealing with paper pushing bureaucratic drudgery.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    jdarksun wrote: »
    The first half of the season was slow paced enough without dealing with paper pushing bureaucratic drudgery.

    The slow pace wasn't the problem, it's that they weren't written very interestingly. Also it had a weird 90's tv show tone to it.

    edit: A common complaint was that people weren't sure how SHIELD works as an organization.

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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    They already set the stage for how MCU is going to handle civil war.
    Going back to the first season the idea of who do the special people have to answer to was laid out. Then SHIELD had the rug pulled out from under them. That's left us with what Season 2 is teasing with national government trying to take that place.

    Give it a couple episodes and Coulson will have Talbot threatening to take any specials in his care and demanding access to any specials he knows about.

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    KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    They had all sorts of things that could be construed as SHIELD overstepping their bounds or abusing their power like them getting involved in volatile political situations and keeping constant watches on people with super powers. However, since they never really established the rules of the world and no one ever called them out on it, those issues were never dealt with in the context of the show.

    Also, they didn't need to foreshadow Hydra at all. SHIELD is a massive military/industrial/intelligence organization with almost no oversight and an incredible amount of authority to carry out its mission. You don't need secret Nazi infiltration to have stories about SHIELD doing shady and unethical things and crossing the line in the name of protecting people. They could have introduced SHIELD members who are willing to do all sorts of horrible things "for the greater good" but aren't involved with Hydra at all.

This discussion has been closed.