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Officially Introducing PinMash - PA Pin Rating Engine

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    grgemonkeygrgemonkey Registered User regular
    kgBwnKy.gif

    Edit into OP pls.

    It's hard for me to decide if I hate or love you.

    https://pinnypals.com - Be there or be your least favourite shaped pin. Pin trading and more.
    http://pinmash.info - Head-To-Head battle of pins! Choose the most desirable.
    http://pinnywise.com - iOS pin collection tracking app.
    ----
    My Delicious Pins For Trade
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    agentcooperagentcooper Brisbane, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Edit into OP pls.

    /Grabs notepad

    /Jots down, "Obviously a Max Headroom fan" :)

    Let's trade: https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/agentcooper
    "Damn fine pins!"
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    sudopoopsudopoop seattle, usaRegistered User regular
    @fishfishmonkeyhat how do you make those gifs so fast?

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    fishfishmonkeyhatfishfishmonkeyhat Freelance Pin Man Newcastle, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2015
    grgemonkey wrote: »
    kgBwnKy.gif

    Edit into OP pls.

    It's hard for me to decide if I hate or love you.

    Umm love me obviously.
    sudopoop wrote: »
    @fishfishmonkeyhat how do you make those gifs so fast?

    Well I still had the Premiere files for the first version so I only had to change the text.

    fishfishmonkeyhat on
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    zealezeale Saint LouisRegistered User regular
    Just found out about this at the pin trading panel at East... very cool site! I threw a few hundred ratings into the mix. I think this is a good thing for us intermediate pin people to know a rough gauge of interest in certain pins. I didn't know hanna was so popular!

    dgiab0m7h15x.png

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    BekerBeker Child's Play Program Director SeattleRegistered User, Penny Arcade Staff regular
    Something that might be useful, is to have the date of the last refresh of the database listed on there somewhere.

    -Beker/Erick
    zx6ak2M.png
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    silrnsilrn Fairfax, VARegistered User regular
    I like having the last refresh date and maybe a target pinmash number goal (like say 50,000 matches before it "settles") to give people how many matches it needs before it reaches a trustworthy saturation point.

    I was also thinking about the possibility of having the previous pin rankings listed side by side. My only concern is that would potentially help "lock" a pins value, because people would see what it was valued at previously.

    As an alternative (and I don't know how hard it would be to program this), have a column showing whether a given pin moved up, down, or stayed static in the rankings compared to the prior day or week or month might be neat.

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    LazorzLazorz Tokyo, JPRegistered User regular
    edited March 2015
    silrn wrote: »
    I like having the last refresh date and maybe a target pinmash number goal (like say 50,000 matches before it "settles") to give people how many matches it needs before it reaches a trustworthy saturation point.

    I was also thinking about the possibility of having the previous pin rankings listed side by side. My only concern is that would potentially help "lock" a pins value, because people would see what it was valued at previously.

    As an alternative (and I don't know how hard it would be to program this), have a column showing whether a given pin moved up, down, or stayed static in the rankings compared to the prior day or week or month might be neat.
    I definitely agree on the target goal before it's declared as "settled." Just have a little disclaimer thrown on the page after a reset and you're good to go.

    And for the column displaying the change in placement, that wouldn't be difficult at all in comparison to what dmosinee has already done with Pinmash :) I think it'd be a pretty cool addition to the rankings.

    Lazorz on
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    dmosineedmosinee Davenport, IARegistered User regular
    Just synced PinMash to the PinnyPals data -- so all the new stuff is on there... have at :) Might do some of the new stuff that's been talked about in the next couple weeks, but for now I just wanted to get the new pins out there.

    Digital Lanyard, I love trades - https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/dmosinee
    http://pinmash.info - Two pins enter, one pins leaves... then the other pin leaves with a lower Elo rating
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    HingoHingo Minneapolis, MNRegistered User regular
    You monster:
    mQTPeWi.png

    Pins for trade!
    2015 PAX Prime Omeganaut (I will forever hate Katamari)
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    misskassmisskass Melbourne, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Always the Kitty! Look at those lil eyes.

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    BrushwoodMuttBrushwoodMutt Registered User regular
    Question...why is it so different? I mean is Pinmash about rarity or popularity? I only ask because Hobby Jamie is now at 58 but it isn't really rare if you go to a PAX. Also the Lookouts Crest is in the 30s but isn't the market saturated with them from all the fodder trades?

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    misskassmisskass Melbourne, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2015
    It's about actual rarity as much as personal worth. There are plenty of sets that have 1000 pin print runs, but Ellie for example is currently #8 on PinMash because she's a desirable pin, as compared to Professor Pigglesworth or even Iota, which are both 1000 run pins but are ranked at #75 and #154 respectively.

    Also, if you look at the list, four Lookouts kids take up the bottom four slots, even though they're the same 'fodder' rank as the Crest, so clearly people rate the Crest as being more collectible and desirable as compared to the kids.

    misskass on
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    grgemonkeygrgemonkey Registered User regular
    misskass wrote: »
    ...Professor Pigglesworth...

    OHHHH NOOOO! No you didn't just slag the Piggles?!

    It's ON misskass, it is on.

    Oh what's that, how did these 5000 negative feedbacks land on your PP account? Why I have no idea.

    https://pinnypals.com - Be there or be your least favourite shaped pin. Pin trading and more.
    http://pinmash.info - Head-To-Head battle of pins! Choose the most desirable.
    http://pinnywise.com - iOS pin collection tracking app.
    ----
    My Delicious Pins For Trade
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    misskassmisskass Melbourne, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    No, no, I think he's cute! But less people think he's cute than Ellie because she is MEGA-CUTE! HOW DO I ESCAPE THE HOLE I'M DIGGING.

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    grgemonkeygrgemonkey Registered User regular
    misskass wrote: »
    No, no, I think he's cute! But less people think he's cute than Ellie because she is MEGA-CUTE! HOW DO I ESCAPE THE HOLE I'M DIGGING.

    There is no repentance for sinners of this magnitude.

    Piggles is faith, Piggles is love, Piggles is life.

    The Great Professor has SPOKEN!

    https://pinnypals.com - Be there or be your least favourite shaped pin. Pin trading and more.
    http://pinmash.info - Head-To-Head battle of pins! Choose the most desirable.
    http://pinnywise.com - iOS pin collection tracking app.
    ----
    My Delicious Pins For Trade
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    fishfishmonkeyhatfishfishmonkeyhat Freelance Pin Man Newcastle, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    I'm going to pistol-whip the next person who says "piggles".

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    agentcooperagentcooper Brisbane, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    I'm going to pistol-whip the next person who says "piggles".

    That's a Premium Service!

    Let's trade: https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/agentcooper
    "Damn fine pins!"
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    evil santaevil santa To infinity...and beyond!Registered User regular
    Rather than rarity or popularity, I always imagined that pin mash was concerned with desirability (which admittedly is tied to both)

    Pinny Pals Profile

    “I let out a battle cry. Sure, a lot of people might have mistaken it for a sudden yelp of unmanly fear, but trust me. It was a battle cry.”
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    zerzhulzerzhul Registered User, Moderator mod
    piggles. also dont threaten

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    fishfishmonkeyhatfishfishmonkeyhat Freelance Pin Man Newcastle, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    WHOA!

    You all saw him put his hands on me, right?

    Upload you phone videos to youtube before he tries to delete them!

    :P

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    BekerBeker Child's Play Program Director SeattleRegistered User, Penny Arcade Staff regular
    Hey @dmosinee, do you have any way of seeing how many different people, or at least browser\devices are using pinmash? I'm curious how many of the people voting are pin regulars and know much about which ones are LE, which ones have known quantities, etc. DSB Merch is only #12, and while i'm sure the new pins are still settling in their places, if many of the voters don't know its so limited it may not rise as high.

    I'm not sure thats a bad thing by the way, I feel like in some ways its good that it does not show you the details of the pins when you vote, leaves the decision up to the user and whatever knowlege\feelings they may have for them. As we all knew but as was evidenced at the Prime Staff Trading Event, there are way more pin traders then exist on these forums.

    -Beker/Erick
    zx6ak2M.png
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    TheAggroCraigTheAggroCraig Ultimate Lucky Douchebag MassachusettsRegistered User regular
    Beker wrote: »
    Hey @dmosinee, do you have any way of seeing how many different people, or at least browser\devices are using pinmash? I'm curious how many of the people voting are pin regulars and know much about which ones are LE, which ones have known quantities, etc. DSB Merch is only #12, and while i'm sure the new pins are still settling in their places, if many of the voters don't know its so limited it may not rise as high.

    I'm not sure thats a bad thing by the way, I feel like in some ways its good that it does not show you the details of the pins when you vote, leaves the decision up to the user and whatever knowlege\feelings they may have for them. As we all knew but as was evidenced at the Prime Staff Trading Event, there are way more pin traders then exist on these forums.

    I had no idea it was updated, so yay! DSB is now at #8... I'm sure it'll sit comfortably around #2 or #3 in the long run.

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    orthancstoneorthancstone TexasRegistered User regular
    Beker wrote: »
    I'm curious how many of the people voting are pin regulars and know much about which ones are LE, which ones have known quantities, etc.

    This raises a question: Should DLC be put into the rating rotation?

    Yes, people on the forums/been around since the beginning still consider it the white whale, but would newer folks revere it in the same way? I'd be interested to see if other rare pins give it a run for the money amongst more recent pin traders.

    PAX South 2018 - Jan 12-14!
    Pins!
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    fishfishmonkeyhatfishfishmonkeyhat Freelance Pin Man Newcastle, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    I can't imagine a situation where anyone that knew anything about the DLC wouldn't choose it over any other pin, even if they had one already.

    Maybe if they were only judging pins by design?..

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    BrushwoodMuttBrushwoodMutt Registered User regular
    Here's the thing though, even if it was in rotation on the site: the site is not law, just because something is lower on the chart does not mean it will be traded for less than it currently is. Even if say AUS Kemper wasn't #2, and it was moved to #32, no one would still trade for it less than a high tier pin because it is still limited in number in circulation and most veterans know its true value regardless of pinmash.

    To clarify, as a newcomer with some experience pinmash is a great tool to use as a starting point! So thank you for it!

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    QumadenQumaden World's Mightiest Mortal Registered User regular
    Beker wrote: »
    I'm curious how many of the people voting are pin regulars and know much about which ones are LE, which ones have known quantities, etc.

    This raises a question: Should DLC be put into the rating rotation?

    Yes, people on the forums/been around since the beginning still consider it the white whale, but would newer folks revere it in the same way? I'd be interested to see if other rare pins give it a run for the money amongst more recent pin traders.

    I really like that idea. Yes, it's considered the "holy grail, white whale, etc etc", but it's not just the crazy hardcores who use the site. There are people I'm sure who judge pins by design, cool game, what have you. Most likely it would remain in the top, but it would just be neat to see by how much.

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    SolelronSolelron Wandering Gamer Cornelius, ORRegistered User regular
    I must be one of those who really doesn't use Pinmash..*shrug*

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    dmosineedmosinee Davenport, IARegistered User regular
    Beker wrote: »
    Hey @dmosinee, do you have any way of seeing how many different people, or at least browser\devices are using pinmash? I'm curious how many of the people voting are pin regulars and know much about which ones are LE, which ones have known quantities, etc.

    I don't have anything to specifically track that metadata (although I'm partially done with a feature to use GeoIP to try and store users' locations), but I can give you something -- a breakdown of all match-ups by self selected experience level.

    Of the 34496 total matchups as of this writing:
    6% selected "Casual Collector"
    18% Selected "Aspiring Amateur"
    38% Selected "Pin Professional"
    38% Selected "Pinsane In The Membrane"

    Additional data:
    There have been 15668 matchups in the last month -- and those break down as 11%, 20%, 47%, and 22% respectively.


    Digital Lanyard, I love trades - https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/dmosinee
    http://pinmash.info - Two pins enter, one pins leaves... then the other pin leaves with a lower Elo rating
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    dmosineedmosinee Davenport, IARegistered User regular
    With respect to the DLC, it cuts right to the question of what information PinMash is supposed to be gathering and conveying. If the intent is to let newer traders get a feel for which pins are roughly at the same level of value, then the DLC should probably stay fixed at the top. If it is to be more of a "What does the community as a whole like right now" survey, then it would probably best be opened up as an anything goes have at it.


    In general, I think Pinmash has been a cool experiment -- and it has actually turned up some relevant data that might have gone unnoticed before. For instance, look at how much higher rated the lookouts crest is than any of the kids -- I've seen that reflected on the trade floor many times after I caught it in the pinmash data. That said, maybe it could be more fun and more relevant with some changes. It might capture more useful data if it was setup to ask you the question "If you had spares of both, would you trade A for B?", this could also open the door to evaluating multiple pin trades which is something I've been thinking about.

    Digital Lanyard, I love trades - https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/dmosinee
    http://pinmash.info - Two pins enter, one pins leaves... then the other pin leaves with a lower Elo rating
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    PedroAsaniPedroAsani Brotherhood of the Squirrel [Prime]Registered User regular
    dmosinee wrote: »
    With respect to the DLC, it cuts right to the question of what information PinMash is supposed to be gathering and conveying. If the intent is to let newer traders get a feel for which pins are roughly at the same level of value, then the DLC should probably stay fixed at the top. If it is to be more of a "What does the community as a whole like right now" survey, then it would probably best be opened up as an anything goes have at it.


    In general, I think Pinmash has been a cool experiment -- and it has actually turned up some relevant data that might have gone unnoticed before. For instance, look at how much higher rated the lookouts crest is than any of the kids -- I've seen that reflected on the trade floor many times after I caught it in the pinmash data. That said, maybe it could be more fun and more relevant with some changes. It might capture more useful data if it was setup to ask you the question "If you had spares of both, would you trade A for B?", this could also open the door to evaluating multiple pin trades which is something I've been thinking about.

    I think the DLC should be added, just in case there is ever something run at the same rarity or less. A 300 run would be a PA only title, but with Eyrewood Adventures the possibility exists for one at a high tier on a Kickstarter. If 300 are made and then some removed from the Community circulation (game industry "thank you" presents, charity prizes, etc) it might be necessary to see which is more sought after.

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    BekerBeker Child's Play Program Director SeattleRegistered User, Penny Arcade Staff regular
    Since I don't trade or follow values in the off season I was looking at Pinmash to get an idea of pin rankings and thought about some enhancements, which I humbly submit for consideration.

    Can the detail page about a pins ranking history include its numerical ranking at that time along with the total pins at that point. Something like (234 ranked/370 total pins)

    I often find myself looking for individual sets of pins, and trying to figure how they rank against just each other. Would it be possible for sets to have their own pages that showed the rankings of just pins of those sets. Even if it was still the full ranking of 2/389 for Aus Kemper instead of 1/4 when compared to the others of its set, could be interesting. In fact the full ranking might be more useful.
    (I admit, I mostly find myself looking for how certain staff are doing in the staff sets, and if no one else would find this useful, might not be worth implementing)

    Thanks as always for this great tool.

    -Beker/Erick
    zx6ak2M.png
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