So should I be tanking exclusively with Blessing of Sanc? Because, at least in the context of SM, I'm running out of mana often because I'm not getting much time outside of the five-second rule to regen, and because I don't require much healing, so no Spiritual Attunement mana, or very little.
EDIT: What I mean is, is it worthwhile / advisable to try tanking with Blessing of Kings on myself instead? Possibly even BoW?
Sanctuary is a luxury buff. I rarely use it myself, tbh. Kings is the more important buff for tanks because a.) more sta = more health, b.) more agi = more dodge, and c.) for pallies more int = more mana.
The recent changes to SA means that you WANT to take a bit more damage on easier fights. You still need to generate the same amount of threat on a weakly hitting mob as on a hard hitting mob, so if the mob is a pussy you want to take more damage.
meddleRPI on
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
On what, a target with 0 armor? And at 69, my JOR crits for over 1500 and holy shock for 1400. This is with Crusader judged, but as holy this is pretty much on every single mob anyway.
I get those numbers with 875ish spell damage as a level 70 holy/prot paladin. Ret damage scales a lot better.
Fuck that. Seal of Vengeance is fucking worthless. It's awesome on paper, but I'm parsing a 60%+ resist rate on it.
Fuck. That.
60% resist rate, on what level mobs? Maybe that is why it is so hard to keep a 5 stack up consistantly. The Seal would be better if the judgment would refresh the stack.
I highly doubt there are special, class-specific resistance mechanics that exist purely to make a paladin's life harder.
Warriors, priests, and paladins at least have talents to reduce stun chance. Also many PvP trinkets were changed to remove stuns. Not that these were put into place to rain on the paladin parade.
Meddle, did you run any numbers with Consecration? I seem to get around 90% of my spell damage applied over the duration of Consecration. I think it was close to 93%.
Edit: By the way, Kai, how much spell damage do you have? Also, do you have Improved Seal of Crusader or Sanctity Aura?
At the time, I had roughly 530 effective spelldamage with the holy talent. I also fully spec imp SoC and imp SoR for max damage. I also use the PVP trinket that adds about 45 to the judged crusader. And those numbers were with a trinket popped, but I assumed we were talking maxes here considering those numbers for ret had to be with everything going on.
Now that I am 70 I have Sanct aura and crusade, and without any trinket I drop 1050 JOR and 950 HS. My spelldamage is roughly the same. Also, I get about 240ish hits on SOR with a 1.6 speed weapon, and 77 ticks of rank 1 conc (I think like 180ish ticks max rank). I just love the fact that ALL this damage is stagnant. Nothing partially resists it, and I almost never get resisted.
I have little experience with ret so Im not sure how it works, but I just see some of those numbers and they have to be with incredible gear and with everything going on (full vengence, sanct aura ect.). Im horribly geared and can manage some burst close to that and thats good by me. I want to go ret someday when I have adequate gear and test it out though.
On what, a target with 0 armor? And at 69, my JOR crits for over 1500 and holy shock for 1400. This is with Crusader judged, but as holy this is pretty much on every single mob anyway.
I get those numbers with 875ish spell damage as a level 70 holy/prot paladin. Ret damage scales a lot better.
Fuck that. Seal of Vengeance is fucking worthless. It's awesome on paper, but I'm parsing a 60%+ resist rate on it.
Fuck. That.
60% resist rate, on what level mobs? Maybe that is why it is so hard to keep a 5 stack up consistantly. The Seal would be better if the judgment would refresh the stack.
I highly doubt there are special, class-specific resistance mechanics that exist purely to make a paladin's life harder.
Warriors, priests, and paladins at least have talents to reduce stun chance. Also many PvP trinkets were changed to remove stuns. Not that these were put into place to rain on the paladin parade.
Meddle, did you run any numbers with Consecration? I seem to get around 90% of my spell damage applied over the duration of Consecration. I think it was close to 93%.
Edit: By the way, Kai, how much spell damage do you have? Also, do you have Improved Seal of Crusader or Sanctity Aura?
At the time, I had roughly 530 effective spelldamage with the holy talent. I also fully spec imp SoC and imp SoR for max damage. I also use the PVP trinket that adds about 45 to the judged crusader. And those numbers were with a trinket popped, but I assumed we were talking maxes here considering those numbers for ret had to be with everything going on.
Now that I am 70 I have Sanct aura and crusade, and without any trinket I drop 1050 JOR and 950 HS. My spelldamage is roughly the same. Also, I get about 240ish hits on SOR with a 1.6 speed weapon, and 77 ticks of rank 1 conc (I think like 180ish ticks max rank). I just love the fact that ALL this damage is stagnant. Nothing partially resists it, and I almost never get resisted.
I have little experience with ret so Im not sure how it works, but I just see some of those numbers and they have to be with incredible gear and with everything going on (full vengence, sanct aura ect.). Im horribly geared and can manage some burst close to that and thats good by me. I want to go ret someday when I have adequate gear and test it out though.
I see. I am not spec'd for max holy damage. It would be fun to try it out sometime, I suppose.
So should I be tanking exclusively with Blessing of Sanc? Because, at least in the context of SM, I'm running out of mana often because I'm not getting much time outside of the five-second rule to regen, and because I don't require much healing, so no Spiritual Attunement mana, or very little.
EDIT: What I mean is, is it worthwhile / advisable to try tanking with Blessing of Kings on myself instead? Possibly even BoW?
Sanctuary is a luxury buff. I rarely use it myself, tbh. Kings is the more important buff for tanks because a.) more sta = more health, b.) more agi = more dodge, and c.) for pallies more int = more mana.
The recent changes to SA means that you WANT to take a bit more damage on easier fights. You still need to generate the same amount of threat on a weakly hitting mob as on a hard hitting mob, so if the mob is a pussy you want to take more damage.
Hmm. Well, at this level, I'm not dealing with overzealous mages with 1k +dmg, so if I can get ahold of a mob or two for a few seconds, they're basically mine for the entire fight. This is with Sanc, and the extra little Holy damage [ie. threat] it eeks out. I might be able to sacrifice that bit of threat/minor damage mitigation for an extra 2-300 HP/MP.
You guys are fools for thinking holy > ret! FOOLISH FOOLS!
edit'ed to make sense.
I tend to agree. I'm noticing a lot of paladins respec'ing to retribution and although I initially wanted my first paly to go protection, I'm finding more of my talent points being allocated to ret. I'm currently at 8/10/14, but I'm considering unlearning all my holy points and moving them to ret as well. Think I should?
I'm about halfway to 67 and I've been noticing that even though I have a fair amount of +spell damage and +healing plate, it still takes me like 30 seconds to kill a mob. I was thinking about respeccing part protection part holy until 70. Something like 20/41 (So I can still heal semi/efficiently in 5 mans) Would this be a wise decision?
I'm about halfway to 67 and I've been noticing that even though I have a fair amount of +spell damage and +healing plate, it still takes me like 30 seconds to kill a mob. I was thinking about respeccing part protection part holy until 70. Something like 20/41 (So I can still heal semi/efficiently in 5 mans) Would this be a wise decision?
If you put 41 points into protection, you're not killing anything quickly.
I'm about halfway to 67 and I've been noticing that even though I have a fair amount of +spell damage and +healing plate, it still takes me like 30 seconds to kill a mob. I was thinking about respeccing part protection part holy until 70. Something like 20/41 (So I can still heal semi/efficiently in 5 mans) Would this be a wise decision?
If you put 41 points into protection, you're not killing anything quickly.
Uh? If you're going to post at least share your opinions more clearly, maybe even post a talent build. I mean, that's all I was asking for.
I'm about halfway to 67 and I've been noticing that even though I have a fair amount of +spell damage and +healing plate, it still takes me like 30 seconds to kill a mob. I was thinking about respeccing part protection part holy until 70. Something like 20/41 (So I can still heal semi/efficiently in 5 mans) Would this be a wise decision?
If you put 41 points into protection, you're not killing anything quickly.
Uh? If you're going to post at least share your opinions more clearly, maybe even post a talent build. I mean, that's all I was asking for.
You say that it's taking you 30 seconds to kill a mob, and then you say you want to spec prot.
If you want to kill things faster, do not spec prot. Prot DPS blows.
However, if you are interested in speccing prot to tank 5 mans, you can effectively AOE grind by pulling large amounts of mobs to you and holy shielding them all to death. JoW and JoL are your friends.
I'm about halfway to 67 and I've been noticing that even though I have a fair amount of +spell damage and +healing plate, it still takes me like 30 seconds to kill a mob. I was thinking about respeccing part protection part holy until 70. Something like 20/41 (So I can still heal semi/efficiently in 5 mans) Would this be a wise decision?
If you put 41 points into protection, you're not killing anything quickly.
Uh? If you're going to post at least share your opinions more clearly, maybe even post a talent build. I mean, that's all I was asking for.
You say that it's taking you 30 seconds to kill a mob, and then you say you want to spec prot.
If you want to kill things faster, do not spec prot. Prot DPS blows.
However, if you are interested in speccing prot to tank 5 mans, you can effectively AOE grind by pulling large amounts of mobs to you and holy shielding them all to death. JoW and JoL are your friends.
My server is basically dead when it comes to getting a group together pre 70 so I wouldn't be speccing protection to tank for a 5 man. Basically, I'd just want a build that could solo most of the content. I've specced Ret twice before, both times using a 2 hander and my survivability really scales down to a point where I have to heal 2 or 3 times during a fight whereas normally I'd heal maybe once, or not at all. On another note...Can Ret really be effective at all with a shield? I mean, if I got a nice DPS 1 hander or something it'd be alright, right?
You guys are fools for thinking holy > ret! FOOLISH FOOLS!
edit'ed to make sense.
I tend to agree. I'm noticing a lot of paladins respec'ing to retribution and although I initially wanted my first paly to go protection, I'm finding more of my talent points being allocated to ret. I'm currently at 8/10/14, but I'm considering unlearning all my holy points and moving them to ret as well. Think I should?
Personally, I wouldn't split your points at level 41 (er, that is right, yeah?). Either go for Prot and AoE grind, or go for Ret and smash like Hulk. As it is, you're missing out on Reckoning or Ret's damage bonuses.
I won't deny it's annoying healing without Holy's Spiritual Focus, but for levelling you can use up a CD if you pull more than one mob or whatever.
I was in a battleground where my pug was winning. Im an Enh Shaman and I managed to get highest damage dealth and killing blows while having highest healing done.
Except for one guy ahead of me in both categories. A holy Paladin.
This Paladin out damage-dealt'd the entire team and outhealed us (though me and him had similar healing dealt, me and him continuously took turns healing each other and others).
There were affliction locks, fire mages, etc etc on the team
I did Ret to 32. Maybe it gets a whole lot better at 40/50, but I just wasn't having nearly as much fun as I am with Prot; killing one mob in 5-6 swings < killing 5-6 mobs at once in a minute or two. If I had better mana regen, I'd be a gorram perpetual motion machine.
ret becomes insanely fun when you get crusader strike and a beefy 2hander
There is no shortage of beefy 2hers in Outland. Leveling as Ret in Azeroth is kinda bad just because the weapons there blow. Then again, everything in Azeroth blows when compared to Outland.
RE: The Prot Killing Method.
It is a slow process, and there is no reason to take up Prot just to survive longer. Ret gives you another stun and the ability to lay the smack down in a fast way. It's like being an arms warrior with mediocre heals, and you have to treat it as such. Potions, bandages, and other stuffs like that are your friends. Sure it can be costly to keep potions, but the average fight is like 15 - 20 seconds long if you gear yourself accordingly. Stick to str, sta, AP, crit, and agi i guess. Those are your main stats, learn to love em.
It is a slow process, and there is no reason to take up Prot just to survive longer.
I disagree. Killing four mobs in about a minute is much more engaging to me than killing a single mob in over a fourth of that time. And if you do it right, you can walk away with full health and near-full mana, ready to grab another 4+ mobs and start all over; runner mobs in a densely-packed zone make it so you barely have to move at all.
The other thing to consider is that, like an Arms warrior, as a Ret pally you may not be as able to deal with the unexpected. (Though you still have a bubble.) If you get unexpected adds, a Prot pally can go from "fast" killing mode (Seal/Judgment of Righteousness) to turtle mode (Seal/Judgment of Light and/or Wisdom) and avoid a lengthy graveyard run/rebuff.
Having a Truesilver Breastplate [5% chance on being hit for a 60-100 self-heal] makes it Turtle Mode even better. Shit, I sometimes just switch to Seal/Judgement of Wisdom, because mana is a much bigger issue than healing.
You guys are fools for thinking holy > ret! FOOLISH FOOLS!
edit'ed to make sense.
I tend to agree. I'm noticing a lot of paladins respec'ing to retribution and although I initially wanted my first paly to go protection, I'm finding more of my talent points being allocated to ret. I'm currently at 8/10/14, but I'm considering unlearning all my holy points and moving them to ret as well. Think I should?
Personally, I wouldn't split your points at level 41 (er, that is right, yeah?). Either go for Prot and AoE grind, or go for Ret and smash like Hulk. As it is, you're missing out on Reckoning or Ret's damage bonuses.
I won't deny it's annoying healing without Holy's Spiritual Focus, but for levelling you can use up a CD if you pull more than one mob or whatever.
The points I put on holy were mostly for Strength, which seems like it belongs in the ret talent tree since it counts towards DPS. With everyone talking about the benefits of prot, it seemed like a good idea to put 5/5 on both Improved Devotion and Redoubt. I know what you mean though, that doesn't leave a lot left for ret.
The points I put on holy were mostly for Strength, which seems like it belongs in the ret talent tree since it counts towards DPS.
I'd chalk that up as another case of Blizz trying to keep different specs from sucking completely at trying to do something other than what they're specced for. Like how Furor and Natural Shapeshifter aren't in the Feral tree for droods, or how [now] Hawk Eye isn't in the Marksmanship tree for hunters.
I'm looking at Divine Intellect, once I get Avenger's Shield.
Hamurabi on
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
ret becomes insanely fun when you get crusader strike and a beefy 2hander
There is no shortage of beefy 2hers in Outland. Leveling as Ret in Azeroth is kinda bad just because the weapons there blow. Then again, everything in Azeroth blows when compared to Outland.
RE: The Prot Killing Method.
It is a slow process, and there is no reason to take up Prot just to survive longer. Ret gives you another stun and the ability to lay the smack down in a fast way. It's like being an arms warrior with mediocre heals, and you have to treat it as such. Potions, bandages, and other stuffs like that are your friends. Sure it can be costly to keep potions, but the average fight is like 15 - 20 seconds long if you gear yourself accordingly. Stick to str, sta, AP, crit, and agi i guess. Those are your main stats, learn to love em.
See most people need to understand prot grinding. All pulls take the same amount of time to finish, regurdless of the number of mobs. Ergo you don't try to commit individual acts of murder. What you want to do is start at mass murder and go for genocide.
You guys are fools for thinking holy > ret! FOOLISH FOOLS!
edit'ed to make sense.
I tend to agree. I'm noticing a lot of paladins respec'ing to retribution and although I initially wanted my first paly to go protection, I'm finding more of my talent points being allocated to ret. I'm currently at 8/10/14, but I'm considering unlearning all my holy points and moving them to ret as well. Think I should?
Personally, I wouldn't split your points at level 41 (er, that is right, yeah?). Either go for Prot and AoE grind, or go for Ret and smash like Hulk. As it is, you're missing out on Reckoning or Ret's damage bonuses.
I won't deny it's annoying healing without Holy's Spiritual Focus, but for levelling you can use up a CD if you pull more than one mob or whatever.
The points I put on holy were mostly for Strength, which seems like it belongs in the ret talent tree since it counts towards DPS. With everyone talking about the benefits of prot, it seemed like a good idea to put 5/5 on both Improved Devotion and Redoubt. I know what you mean though, that doesn't leave a lot left for ret.
D.Str. isn't bad, it's just that those points are stopping you reaching the nice stuff in Prot if you want to go that route. Reckoning is the engine that really makes Prot fly; with a 1.5 speed sword, you will drive out crazy amounts of green numbers from your enemies. I levelled my current pally 30-40ish as prot, and STV was a laugh, but I wouldn't have been able to take on 4+ at a time withour Reck.
If you want to go all smashy-like, then it's the points in prot that aren't doing much good; you probably won't be using a shield or using Dev aura outside instances, so Redoubt and Imp. Dev aura aren't helping you there. Stuff like 2H specialisation and Crusade would, though.
As for whether Prot or Ret is better for levelling, I'd say it's purely a matter of taste. I found that while Prot was hilarious at first, it got a bit dull after a while, so I went Ret at ~40. Get a good 2H and it's not slow at all; it's really improved since my first paladin, pre-1.9. You'll find getting ideal weapons for either while levelling up is annoying. Most blue 1h weapons that aren't daggers seem to be moderate-to-slow speed, and most 2Hers seem to be moderate-to-fast!
Prot grinding in Kara MT gear was insane. Blocking for ~380, I was able to solo the elite dragon that patrols around the forest NE of Blade's Edge, as well as a few adds on the way.
D.Str. isn't bad, it's just that those points are stopping you reaching the nice stuff in Prot if you want to go that route. Reckoning is the engine that really makes Prot fly; with a 1.5 speed sword, you will drive out crazy amounts of green numbers from your enemies. I levelled my current pally 30-40ish as prot, and STV was a laugh, but I wouldn't have been able to take on 4+ at a time withour Reck.
If you want to go all smashy-like, then it's the points in prot that aren't doing much good; you probably won't be using a shield or using Dev aura outside instances, so Redoubt and Imp. Dev aura aren't helping you there. Stuff like 2H specialisation and Crusade would, though.
As for whether Prot or Ret is better for levelling, I'd say it's purely a matter of taste. I found that while Prot was hilarious at first, it got a bit dull after a while, so I went Ret at ~40. Get a good 2H and it's not slow at all; it's really improved since my first paladin, pre-1.9. You'll find getting ideal weapons for either while levelling up is annoying. Most blue 1h weapons that aren't daggers seem to be moderate-to-slow speed, and most 2Hers seem to be moderate-to-fast!
Alright. Up until now, I assumed going for a prot/ret hybrid would be ideal for doing damage but also taking it when I'm mass-aggro'd. But if you think those points are wasted unless I go full prot, my question is which did you prefer while leveling? Since you said prot got dull, I'm assuming ret's more fun?
Since you said prot got dull, I'm assuming ret's more fun?
When you Attack(Crit 900), SoC(Crit 1100), Crusader Strike(Crit 1100), Hammer of Justice, Judgement of Command(Crit 1200), Hammer of Wrath(Crit 1400) all in the way of 4 seconds, it's awesome. When you get someone down to 800hp and Attack(Parry), Crusader Strike(Dodge), Judgement of Command(200), Hammer of Wrath(Miss), it's infuriating.
So, this is my first time in the WoW forum (howdy!), and I have a question for my fellow Servants of the Light: I just hit 70, have been Holy spec'd for about five levels now, with separate gear for soloing and healing -- and it seems like I've already got more +healing on my current healing gear than you get from the BC Dungeon set. I'll have to total it, but I know I could certainly exceed the dungeon set once I get my hands on a few other items. So, as a healer for instances, what do you recommend? I mean, certainly all that Int is nice from the dungeon set, but the fact that it's +Spell instead of +Heal worries me a little. Unfounded, or do healadins generally use non-set blues/skip right to T4?
Oh, and my two cents re: Prot leveling vs. Ret leveling -- I rolled prot until level 65, when tanking finally started becoming ridiculously stressful. I then spec'd to Holy, my DPS went way the fuck up, as did my XP/Hour. I assume a Ret build would go even faster. Sure, I die more (oh man, taking on 5 or 6 mobs and surviving was so cool as prot), and I use more water and food, but I definitely gained XP faster.
The paladin dungeon set is crap, don't bother with it. Its not a healing set, its a tank set with very low stamina.
Awesome, thanks for the info.
Have any recommendations for good 70 healadin gear? I've seen that non-set, yet graphically-matched shit going around that includes Mask of Penance? Is that good shit?
Edit: Holy shit! I just allakhazamed Mask of Penance, and got stats for the complete "Purple Judgment" set, which totals +206 Int and +442 healing! Fuckin' awesome!
Since you said prot got dull, I'm assuming ret's more fun?
When you Attack(Crit 900), SoC(Crit 1100), Crusader Strike(Crit 1100), Hammer of Justice, Judgement of Command(Crit 1200), Hammer of Wrath(Crit 1400) all in the way of 4 seconds, it's awesome. When you get someone down to 800hp and Attack(Parry), Crusader Strike(Dodge), Judgement of Command(200), Hammer of Wrath(Miss), it's infuriating.
Since you said prot got dull, I'm assuming ret's more fun?
When you Attack(Crit 900), SoC(Crit 1100), Crusader Strike(Crit 1100), Hammer of Justice, Judgement of Command(Crit 1200), Hammer of Wrath(Crit 1400) all in the way of 4 seconds, it's awesome. When you get someone down to 800hp and Attack(Parry), Crusader Strike(Dodge), Judgement of Command(200), Hammer of Wrath(Miss), it's infuriating.
None of those things are inherent to prot spec.
I think he was pointing out how fun or infuriating ret can be. Not prot.
Also: At what rep level can I grind Heroic instances? And is there really no better way to grind rep with Honor Hold than running Shattered Halls over and over again? Because that sounds motherfucking lame.
Posts
Sanctuary is a luxury buff. I rarely use it myself, tbh. Kings is the more important buff for tanks because a.) more sta = more health, b.) more agi = more dodge, and c.) for pallies more int = more mana.
The recent changes to SA means that you WANT to take a bit more damage on easier fights. You still need to generate the same amount of threat on a weakly hitting mob as on a hard hitting mob, so if the mob is a pussy you want to take more damage.
At the time, I had roughly 530 effective spelldamage with the holy talent. I also fully spec imp SoC and imp SoR for max damage. I also use the PVP trinket that adds about 45 to the judged crusader. And those numbers were with a trinket popped, but I assumed we were talking maxes here considering those numbers for ret had to be with everything going on.
Now that I am 70 I have Sanct aura and crusade, and without any trinket I drop 1050 JOR and 950 HS. My spelldamage is roughly the same. Also, I get about 240ish hits on SOR with a 1.6 speed weapon, and 77 ticks of rank 1 conc (I think like 180ish ticks max rank). I just love the fact that ALL this damage is stagnant. Nothing partially resists it, and I almost never get resisted.
I have little experience with ret so Im not sure how it works, but I just see some of those numbers and they have to be with incredible gear and with everything going on (full vengence, sanct aura ect.). Im horribly geared and can manage some burst close to that and thats good by me. I want to go ret someday when I have adequate gear and test it out though.
I see. I am not spec'd for max holy damage. It would be fun to try it out sometime, I suppose.
Ret sustained is superior to Holy.
You guys are fools for thinking holy > ret! FOOLISH FOOLS!
edit'ed to make sense.
Hmm. Well, at this level, I'm not dealing with overzealous mages with 1k +dmg, so if I can get ahold of a mob or two for a few seconds, they're basically mine for the entire fight. This is with Sanc, and the extra little Holy damage [ie. threat] it eeks out. I might be able to sacrifice that bit of threat/minor damage mitigation for an extra 2-300 HP/MP.
I tend to agree. I'm noticing a lot of paladins respec'ing to retribution and although I initially wanted my first paly to go protection, I'm finding more of my talent points being allocated to ret. I'm currently at 8/10/14, but I'm considering unlearning all my holy points and moving them to ret as well. Think I should?
XBL
If you put 41 points into protection, you're not killing anything quickly.
Uh? If you're going to post at least share your opinions more clearly, maybe even post a talent build. I mean, that's all I was asking for.
XBL
You say that it's taking you 30 seconds to kill a mob, and then you say you want to spec prot.
If you want to kill things faster, do not spec prot. Prot DPS blows.
However, if you are interested in speccing prot to tank 5 mans, you can effectively AOE grind by pulling large amounts of mobs to you and holy shielding them all to death. JoW and JoL are your friends.
My server is basically dead when it comes to getting a group together pre 70 so I wouldn't be speccing protection to tank for a 5 man. Basically, I'd just want a build that could solo most of the content. I've specced Ret twice before, both times using a 2 hander and my survivability really scales down to a point where I have to heal 2 or 3 times during a fight whereas normally I'd heal maybe once, or not at all. On another note...Can Ret really be effective at all with a shield? I mean, if I got a nice DPS 1 hander or something it'd be alright, right?
XBL
I won't deny it's annoying healing without Holy's Spiritual Focus, but for levelling you can use up a CD if you pull more than one mob or whatever.
Except for one guy ahead of me in both categories. A holy Paladin.
This Paladin out damage-dealt'd the entire team and outhealed us (though me and him had similar healing dealt, me and him continuously took turns healing each other and others).
There were affliction locks, fire mages, etc etc on the team
There is no shortage of beefy 2hers in Outland. Leveling as Ret in Azeroth is kinda bad just because the weapons there blow. Then again, everything in Azeroth blows when compared to Outland.
RE: The Prot Killing Method.
It is a slow process, and there is no reason to take up Prot just to survive longer. Ret gives you another stun and the ability to lay the smack down in a fast way. It's like being an arms warrior with mediocre heals, and you have to treat it as such. Potions, bandages, and other stuffs like that are your friends. Sure it can be costly to keep potions, but the average fight is like 15 - 20 seconds long if you gear yourself accordingly. Stick to str, sta, AP, crit, and agi i guess. Those are your main stats, learn to love em.
I disagree. Killing four mobs in about a minute is much more engaging to me than killing a single mob in over a fourth of that time. And if you do it right, you can walk away with full health and near-full mana, ready to grab another 4+ mobs and start all over; runner mobs in a densely-packed zone make it so you barely have to move at all.
I could seriously take adds forever.
EDIT: Which is pretty much what sain said.
The points I put on holy were mostly for Strength, which seems like it belongs in the ret talent tree since it counts towards DPS. With everyone talking about the benefits of prot, it seemed like a good idea to put 5/5 on both Improved Devotion and Redoubt. I know what you mean though, that doesn't leave a lot left for ret.
I'd chalk that up as another case of Blizz trying to keep different specs from sucking completely at trying to do something other than what they're specced for. Like how Furor and Natural Shapeshifter aren't in the Feral tree for droods, or how [now] Hawk Eye isn't in the Marksmanship tree for hunters.
I'm looking at Divine Intellect, once I get Avenger's Shield.
See most people need to understand prot grinding. All pulls take the same amount of time to finish, regurdless of the number of mobs. Ergo you don't try to commit individual acts of murder. What you want to do is start at mass murder and go for genocide.
If you want to go all smashy-like, then it's the points in prot that aren't doing much good; you probably won't be using a shield or using Dev aura outside instances, so Redoubt and Imp. Dev aura aren't helping you there. Stuff like 2H specialisation and Crusade would, though.
As for whether Prot or Ret is better for levelling, I'd say it's purely a matter of taste. I found that while Prot was hilarious at first, it got a bit dull after a while, so I went Ret at ~40. Get a good 2H and it's not slow at all; it's really improved since my first paladin, pre-1.9. You'll find getting ideal weapons for either while levelling up is annoying. Most blue 1h weapons that aren't daggers seem to be moderate-to-slow speed, and most 2Hers seem to be moderate-to-fast!
And I pulled him at 20% health and mana :O
Alright. Up until now, I assumed going for a prot/ret hybrid would be ideal for doing damage but also taking it when I'm mass-aggro'd. But if you think those points are wasted unless I go full prot, my question is which did you prefer while leveling? Since you said prot got dull, I'm assuming ret's more fun?
Sure, when I run out of Blackened Basilisk I can go to Terrokar and kill all the basilisk, but still I'd rather see my huge SoC numbers again =(
When you Attack(Crit 900), SoC(Crit 1100), Crusader Strike(Crit 1100), Hammer of Justice, Judgement of Command(Crit 1200), Hammer of Wrath(Crit 1400) all in the way of 4 seconds, it's awesome. When you get someone down to 800hp and Attack(Parry), Crusader Strike(Dodge), Judgement of Command(200), Hammer of Wrath(Miss), it's infuriating.
Oh, and my two cents re: Prot leveling vs. Ret leveling -- I rolled prot until level 65, when tanking finally started becoming ridiculously stressful. I then spec'd to Holy, my DPS went way the fuck up, as did my XP/Hour. I assume a Ret build would go even faster. Sure, I die more (oh man, taking on 5 or 6 mobs and surviving was so cool as prot), and I use more water and food, but I definitely gained XP faster.
Awesome, thanks for the info.
Have any recommendations for good 70 healadin gear? I've seen that non-set, yet graphically-matched shit going around that includes Mask of Penance? Is that good shit?
Edit: Holy shit! I just allakhazamed Mask of Penance, and got stats for the complete "Purple Judgment" set, which totals +206 Int and +442 healing! Fuckin' awesome!
None of those things are inherent to prot spec.
I think he was pointing out how fun or infuriating ret can be. Not prot.
Also: At what rep level can I grind Heroic instances? And is there really no better way to grind rep with Honor Hold than running Shattered Halls over and over again? Because that sounds motherfucking lame.
Want more health? SoL, JoL? Want more mana? JoW/SoW? Want more damage? Consecrate etc.