It is, you can try popping max rank then down rank to rank 1 if you're finding out that burning out of mana. And it's okay to run out of mana sometimes. It's a renewable resource. And if you don't mind posting your armory link we can see if it's a spec issue.
I would drop the five points in DI and pick up AD, or Imp Judgement or Imp Crusader.
Since i'm still leveling, I figured I would keep it because I can never have enough mana while out grinding. I'll definitely be getting rid of it once I hit 70 and really need it for tanking, those points are going straight into Ardent Defender.
Wavechaser on
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
It is, you can try popping max rank then down rank to rank 1 if you're finding out that burning out of mana. And it's okay to run out of mana sometimes. It's a renewable resource. And if you don't mind posting your armory link we can see if it's a spec issue.
I would drop the five points in DI and pick up AD, or Imp Judgement or Imp Crusader.
Since i'm still leveling, I figured I would keep it because I can never have enough mana while out grinding. I'll definitely be getting rid of it once I hit 70 and really need it for tanking, those points are going straight into Ardent Defender.
Work on a separate set for that. Just stack spell damage/mp5 plate for it. You'll find loads of it pretty soon.
So last night I tanked my first instance (Ramparts) and think I did an alright job.
I was 59 at the time, most of my party was 61+, there was a fury warrior, holy pally, mage, and druid in the group.
For some reason though, I had a really tough time keeping aggro. I had the other pally giving us wisdom, so I used this strategy. And yes, I had Righteous Fury up.
Pull with Avengers shield, judge crusader, throw up righteousness, throw up one consecrate to keep all mobs on me, and just judge crusader and pop holy shield any time redoubt procced.
For some reason I just kept losing aggro, and if Righteous Defense missed or was resisted(which it seemed to do often), I would pretty much lose aggro for the fight.
Admittedly the fury warrior was a retard and would instantly charge the second I used my avengers shield and not even give me half a second to gain aggro, meaning I almost aways had to use RD at the beginning of every fight, and the druid would not concentrate on the SKULL at all, but whatever.
Am I doing things all right? Are there any things I should tweak about my current strategy that might help out in tanking future instances?
Somethings. Holy Shield being up all of the time is important. If you're tanking multiple mobs, it will eat charges, generate threat and reduce damage taken. HS is your friend. It is your bread and butter. If you just wait till redoubt procs then you're going to end up with a ton of down time. And why just the one consecrate?
Ahhh, yeah i'm so used to only using HS when redoubt procs in PvE that I didn't even think to have it up all the time.
As for consecrate, it's a mana hog, so I usually only use it once or twice.
When I find I can't keep aggro, first I let whoever is consistently pulling aggro die. Fuck them for not managing their threat.
First rule of a tank for me?
If you do not watch your fucking threat, or you don't focus, or even ignore the marks(DO NOT FUCKING CHEAP SHOT AND WAIL ON THAT MOB. THAT WAS X FOR A GODDAMN REASON) then you want to tank.
I'm just gonna do Outland as a Shockadin. It wasn't horrible soloing while I was [briefly] one in the mid-50's, and I want to actually be wanted for instances while levelling. Not to mention there's a ridiculous abundance of +dmg plate in Hellfire Peninsula alone.
10.5k and uncrushable is around the baseline for starting to tank heroics/start-of-Kara, I think. Though you only need the uncrushable for Kara.
I started OTing at about 9k HP and nowhere near uncrushable (was at 490 def though.) As long as you're not MT and your healers are good being crushable isn't a huge problem.
I'm just gonna do Outland as a Shockadin. It wasn't horrible soloing while I was [briefly] one in the mid-50's, and I want to actually be wanted for instances while levelling. Not to mention there's a ridiculous abundance of +dmg plate in Hellfire Peninsula alone.
My paladin went 1-51 using nothing but seal of the crusader. I only stopped then because they nerfed it. Then I used command untill 60.
Ret sucks balls though. Spec out of it as soon as possible. The spec is useless in every aspect of the game. Its like what survival used to be for hunters back when they had Lacerate as a top tier talent.
DisruptorX2 on
0
ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
My paladin went 1-51 using nothing but seal of the crusader. I only stopped then because they nerfed it. Then I used command untill 60.
Ret sucks balls though. Spec out of it as soon as possible. The spec is useless in every aspect of the game. Its like what survival used to be for hunters back when they had Lacerate as a top tier talent.
I brought a ret paladin to my SSC raid last night, and he was actually quite useful. We bring 4-5 paladins to every raid, and finally getting to take advantage of judgement of light/wisdom was huge, we managed lurker with 11 melee in the raid, and 5 healers due almost solely to JoL. His personal damage sucked pretty bad compared to our truly competent dps (came in 6th, our damage meters look silly, top 5 generally have 10% damage dealt each, and then the next person is at like 5-6%, wts nubs,) but he was still leagues ahead of the people that are clueless. By his existence, our crappy shadow priests and mages were able to deal much more damage, since they don't know what pot rotations are, JoW kept them going much longer than they normally do.
And since you cant get the spelldamage talent and Sanct aura till 70 anyway, you should have Divine Illum so you can drop the almost free heal every 3 mins
And since you cant get the spelldamage talent and Sanct aura till 70 anyway, you should have Divine Illum so you can drop the almost free heal every 3 mins
Edited for
I think he meant DI + DF, meaning you get some mana back.
DI: 50% less mana cost (so, say, 250 mana instead of 500)
DF: 60% of base cost back on crit: 250 mana to cast, 300 mana returned
My paladin went 1-51 using nothing but seal of the crusader. I only stopped then because they nerfed it. Then I used command untill 60.
Ret sucks balls though. Spec out of it as soon as possible. The spec is useless in every aspect of the game. Its like what survival used to be for hunters back when they had Lacerate as a top tier talent.
I brought a ret paladin to my SSC raid last night, and he was actually quite useful. We bring 4-5 paladins to every raid, and finally getting to take advantage of judgement of light/wisdom was huge, we managed lurker with 11 melee in the raid, and 5 healers due almost solely to JoL. His personal damage sucked pretty bad compared to our truly competent dps (came in 6th, our damage meters look silly, top 5 generally have 10% damage dealt each, and then the next person is at like 5-6%, wts nubs,) but he was still leagues ahead of the people that are clueless. By his existence, our crappy shadow priests and mages were able to deal much more damage, since they don't know what pot rotations are, JoW kept them going much longer than they normally do.
Thats pretty relative.
I can outdps alot of people in my guild, too, when I spec ret. Thats mainly because I'm in a casual RP guild, and get my gear by playing with more hardcore pvpers.
My paladin went 1-51 using nothing but seal of the crusader. I only stopped then because they nerfed it. Then I used command untill 60.
Ret sucks balls though. Spec out of it as soon as possible. The spec is useless in every aspect of the game. Its like what survival used to be for hunters back when they had Lacerate as a top tier talent.
I brought a ret paladin to my SSC raid last night, and he was actually quite useful. We bring 4-5 paladins to every raid, and finally getting to take advantage of judgement of light/wisdom was huge, we managed lurker with 11 melee in the raid, and 5 healers due almost solely to JoL. His personal damage sucked pretty bad compared to our truly competent dps (came in 6th, our damage meters look silly, top 5 generally have 10% damage dealt each, and then the next person is at like 5-6%, wts nubs,) but he was still leagues ahead of the people that are clueless. By his existence, our crappy shadow priests and mages were able to deal much more damage, since they don't know what pot rotations are, JoW kept them going much longer than they normally do.
Thats pretty relative.
I can outdps alot of people in my guild, too, when I spec ret. Thats mainly because I'm in a casual RP guild, and get my gear by playing with more hardcore pvpers.
The point is that his DPS was irrelevant, he could have been doing tank-level dps, and still contribute much more to the raid than any of our mages.
My paladin went 1-51 using nothing but seal of the crusader. I only stopped then because they nerfed it. Then I used command untill 60.
Ret sucks balls though. Spec out of it as soon as possible. The spec is useless in every aspect of the game. Its like what survival used to be for hunters back when they had Lacerate as a top tier talent.
I brought a ret paladin to my SSC raid last night, and he was actually quite useful. We bring 4-5 paladins to every raid, and finally getting to take advantage of judgement of light/wisdom was huge, we managed lurker with 11 melee in the raid, and 5 healers due almost solely to JoL. His personal damage sucked pretty bad compared to our truly competent dps (came in 6th, our damage meters look silly, top 5 generally have 10% damage dealt each, and then the next person is at like 5-6%, wts nubs,) but he was still leagues ahead of the people that are clueless. By his existence, our crappy shadow priests and mages were able to deal much more damage, since they don't know what pot rotations are, JoW kept them going much longer than they normally do.
Thats pretty relative.
I can outdps alot of people in my guild, too, when I spec ret. Thats mainly because I'm in a casual RP guild, and get my gear by playing with more hardcore pvpers.
The point is that his DPS was irrelevant, he could have been doing tank-level dps, and still contribute much more to the raid than any of our mages.
It really isn't that hard to have a paladin that healing keep up JoL or JoW for a decent duration on most fights, unless something major changed in the month since I quit.
khain on
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
And since you cant get the spelldamage talent and Sanct aura till 70 anyway, you should have Divine Illum so you can drop the almost free heal every 3 mins
Edited for
I think he meant DI + DF, meaning you get some mana back.
DI: 50% less mana cost (so, say, 250 mana instead of 500)
DF: 60% of base cost back on crit: 250 mana to cast, 300 mana returned
Before the nerf, I would do this and pop the trinket from BF reducing the mana cost further, and not only heal for 4k+ but get like 800 mana back.
Now if you have the trinket, its still a little worth it as you should get back like 300ish.
My pally, who's prot and 70, will likely be more or less shelved except for dailies and the occasional instance run to help folks out.
My question I suppose is; whats the word on the status of prot for 2.3 and beyond? I guess what I really want to know is if I should spend the time working on getting some ret gear to prep to level 70-80 or if I should just stick to prot for those 10 levels since I'll be 99% likely to go right back to prot at 80. Also, if I DO go back ret I'll probably invest in getting a Thunder and beyond made for myself (only need a few more BS points, can never bring myself to spend the cash on it) since I have a feeling that the gear disparity won't be nearly as big in WotLK as it was in TBC.
So what info do we know about prot changes, if any in 2.3 or 2.4 (assuming 2.4 is the last major patch pre WotLK; that's as far out as blue has ever discussed)?
About the only thing known for sure for prot is that they are looking to address the hp disparity.
There is a rumor about a blue post on the EU forums that got deleted that had a couple of changes, the most notable one being that weapon expertise, in addition to doing what it does now, would also grant up to 15 hp per level (so 1050 at 70, which is about what I would say we need, would close the gap of base hp with warriors but still leave them with a better +sta talent and more sta on their gear in general to maintain their advantage) and also that 5% of the damage you take is converted to mana.
Realistically speaking, the 15 hp per level part is plausible enough, though it's placement is suspect. The 5% thing seems.... ridiculously overpowered.
Arkady on
LoL: failboattootoot
0
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited October 2007
Paladins have the better +sta talent you know. Warriors is 5%, paladins is 6%. I know its not like, alot, but its true. Unless you count 10% more str as better, but thats a very VERY insignificant difference for a warrior in tanking gear.
Paladins have the better +sta talent you know. Warriors is 5%, paladins is 6%. I know its not like, alot, but its true. Unless you count 10% more str as better, but thats a very VERY insignificant difference for a warrior in tanking gear.
Thats wonderful. 10% more str isn't insignificant.
Regardless the point is paladins have 1500 BASE HP difference from Warrior tanks. That is a lot.
Paladins have the better +sta talent you know. Warriors is 5%, paladins is 16%. I know its not like, alot, but its true. Unless you count 10% more str as better, but thats a very VERY insignificant difference for a warrior in tanking gear.
I want pursuit of justice so bad! Too bad my talent points are going towards weapons expertise in 2.3.
BLIZZZZZZAAAAAAAAARD!!!111!
/shatner
Shmoepong on
I don't think I could take a class without sparring. That would be like a class without techniques. Sparring has value not only as an important (necessary) step in applying your techniques to fighting, but also because it provides a rush and feeling of elation, confidence, and joyful exhaustion that can only be matched by ... oh shit, I am describing sex again. Sorry everyone. - Epicurus
0
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited October 2007
So GG for BOL being nerfed on downranking.
It makes what little use the libram off lurker had pretty much obsolete now.
Posts
Since i'm still leveling, I figured I would keep it because I can never have enough mana while out grinding. I'll definitely be getting rid of it once I hit 70 and really need it for tanking, those points are going straight into Ardent Defender.
Work on a separate set for that. Just stack spell damage/mp5 plate for it. You'll find loads of it pretty soon.
If you do not watch your fucking threat, or you don't focus, or even ignore the marks(DO NOT FUCKING CHEAP SHOT AND WAIL ON THAT MOB. THAT WAS X FOR A GODDAMN REASON) then you want to tank.
I'm just gonna do Outland as a Shockadin. It wasn't horrible soloing while I was [briefly] one in the mid-50's, and I want to actually be wanted for instances while levelling. Not to mention there's a ridiculous abundance of +dmg plate in Hellfire Peninsula alone.
And you'll use most of it until 70. :P
One of us.
What the fuck do I do now?
(I want to level quickly, happy to respec later)
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
10 - Imp BoM - 1/5
11 - Imp BoM - 2/5
12 - Imp BoM - 3/5
13 - Imp BoM - 4/5
14 - Imp BoM - 5/5
15 - Imp Judgement - 1/2
16 - Imp Judgement - 2/2
17 through 19 - anything
20 - Seal of Command (Get Verigan's Fist. Sin'Dorei Warblade or Blood Tempered Ranseur if Horde, either's okay. If Alliance, though, Get Verigan's. It'll last you the rest of your ret leveling)
21 - Pursuit of Justice 1/2
22 - Pursuit of Justice 2/2
23 - Conviction 1/5
24 - Conviction 2/5
25 - Conviction 3/5
26 - Conviction 4/5
27 - Conviction 5/5
28 - Crusade 1/5
29 - Crusade 2/5
30 - 2H Specialization 1/3
31 - 2H Specialization 2/3
32 - 2H Specialization 3/3
33 - Crusade 3/5
34 - Crusade 4/5
35 - Full respec, go Protection, 5/5 Reckoning, get a good shield spike, and go AoE grinding.
You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Ret sucks balls though. Spec out of it as soon as possible. The spec is useless in every aspect of the game. Its like what survival used to be for hunters back when they had Lacerate as a top tier talent.
That's the rank 5 verison. Rank 1 is 14 damage.
I brought a ret paladin to my SSC raid last night, and he was actually quite useful. We bring 4-5 paladins to every raid, and finally getting to take advantage of judgement of light/wisdom was huge, we managed lurker with 11 melee in the raid, and 5 healers due almost solely to JoL. His personal damage sucked pretty bad compared to our truly competent dps (came in 6th, our damage meters look silly, top 5 generally have 10% damage dealt each, and then the next person is at like 5-6%, wts nubs,) but he was still leagues ahead of the people that are clueless. By his existence, our crappy shadow priests and mages were able to deal much more damage, since they don't know what pot rotations are, JoW kept them going much longer than they normally do.
Thanks for the headsup..... why the hell is rank 5 the one displayed in my talent list :P.
Using wowhead?
They dropped in a Ramps the other night. :P
Up to 229 +dmg, in a mishmash of all kinds of stuff, and before a few key upgrades. Healing is obviously a cakewalk.
Confusion: I was talking about holy shield, and you were talking about BoSanc... the damage of BoSanc5 is the same as Holy Shield1.
Yeah, my bad. To this day I still think of HS as a 21 point talent.
And since you cant get the spelldamage talent and Sanct aura till 70 anyway, you should have Divine Illum so you can drop the free heal every 3 mins
Edited for
I think he meant DI + DF, meaning you get some mana back.
DI: 50% less mana cost (so, say, 250 mana instead of 500)
DF: 60% of base cost back on crit: 250 mana to cast, 300 mana returned
Thats pretty relative.
I can outdps alot of people in my guild, too, when I spec ret. Thats mainly because I'm in a casual RP guild, and get my gear by playing with more hardcore pvpers.
The point is that his DPS was irrelevant, he could have been doing tank-level dps, and still contribute much more to the raid than any of our mages.
It really isn't that hard to have a paladin that healing keep up JoL or JoW for a decent duration on most fights, unless something major changed in the month since I quit.
Before the nerf, I would do this and pop the trinket from BF reducing the mana cost further, and not only heal for 4k+ but get like 800 mana back.
Now if you have the trinket, its still a little worth it as you should get back like 300ish.
My pally, who's prot and 70, will likely be more or less shelved except for dailies and the occasional instance run to help folks out.
My question I suppose is; whats the word on the status of prot for 2.3 and beyond? I guess what I really want to know is if I should spend the time working on getting some ret gear to prep to level 70-80 or if I should just stick to prot for those 10 levels since I'll be 99% likely to go right back to prot at 80. Also, if I DO go back ret I'll probably invest in getting a Thunder and beyond made for myself (only need a few more BS points, can never bring myself to spend the cash on it) since I have a feeling that the gear disparity won't be nearly as big in WotLK as it was in TBC.
So what info do we know about prot changes, if any in 2.3 or 2.4 (assuming 2.4 is the last major patch pre WotLK; that's as far out as blue has ever discussed)?
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
There is a rumor about a blue post on the EU forums that got deleted that had a couple of changes, the most notable one being that weapon expertise, in addition to doing what it does now, would also grant up to 15 hp per level (so 1050 at 70, which is about what I would say we need, would close the gap of base hp with warriors but still leave them with a better +sta talent and more sta on their gear in general to maintain their advantage) and also that 5% of the damage you take is converted to mana.
Realistically speaking, the 15 hp per level part is plausible enough, though it's placement is suspect. The 5% thing seems.... ridiculously overpowered.
LoL: failboattootoot
Thats wonderful. 10% more str isn't insignificant.
Regardless the point is paladins have 1500 BASE HP difference from Warrior tanks. That is a lot.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
I respecced my pally Prot again after getting the quests for that cave full of swamp elementals in Zangarmarsh. >_<
I could like that.
Soulstone?
and battlerez
BLIZZZZZZAAAAAAAAARD!!!111!
/shatner
It makes what little use the libram off lurker had pretty much obsolete now.
Back to spamming FOL forever.