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[Star Wars Rebels] Season 4: May the Fourth Be With Uth

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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    I think that theory kind of falls apart since Obi-Wan and Yoda's master plan for training the super-Jedi destined to defeat the Emperor was apparently "leave him with his closest relatives on a backwater dustball (where Vader was born and lived) for 16 years and hope he manages to become an excellent pilot and swordsman in his free moments between farming water and fixing vaporators".

    as the sequel proves, you just need to hold a saber for like a minute to master it.

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    I think that theory kind of falls apart since Obi-Wan and Yoda's master plan for training the super-Jedi destined to defeat the Emperor was apparently "leave him with his closest relatives on a backwater dustball (where Vader was born and lived) for 16 years and hope he manages to become an excellent pilot and swordsman in his free moments between farming water and fixing vaporators".

    "That boy is our last hope."

    MegaMekMatev
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    I think that theory kind of falls apart since Obi-Wan and Yoda's master plan for training the super-Jedi destined to defeat the Emperor was apparently "leave him with his closest relatives on a backwater dustball (where Vader was born and lived) for 16 years and hope he manages to become an excellent pilot and swordsman in his free moments between farming water and fixing vaporators".

    The Force has its ways.

    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
    Shadowhope
  • see317see317 Taco Count 2017: 48 Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    I think that theory kind of falls apart since Obi-Wan and Yoda's master plan for training the super-Jedi destined to defeat the Emperor was apparently "leave him with his closest relatives on a backwater dustball (where Vader was born and lived) for 16 years and hope he manages to become an excellent pilot and swordsman in his free moments between farming water and fixing vaporators".

    "That boy is our last hope."

    Sure, after they found him and Obi had died/become one with the force and Yoda was nearly on his death bed, Luke was the last force sensitive they'd be able to find and give even a modicum of training too.
    I'm just saying that if they had always planned to train Luke to be a Jedi Assassin who would eventually take down Vader and The Emperor then maybe they should have actually trained him instead of giving him a crash course in blind lightsaber fighting on the trip to Alderaan followed by a couple weeks of force boot camp on Dagobah dicking around with rocks and dark side caves.

    I like the theory that Obi Wan was left on Tattooine to watch Luke and make sure he didn't follow his father's path and become a second Vader. By keeping him with his boring aunt and uncle, farming water and never having any hope to do more he'd be kept well away from adventuring and awakening to his force abilities. But then the droids showed up, Obi called off the Tusken ambush he had set up and took Luke off planet when the Empire was getting close. But that whole thing's a stretch even after you disregard the prequels.

    But, this is Star Wars, where even the greatest narrative coincidence can be hand waved away with "The Force Did It!" and we clap and buy another ticket for the next movie.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    Golden Yak
  • Operative21Operative21 Registered User regular
    Al_wat wrote: »
    Twin suns
    i would have liked more obi wan in the episode but damn, that showdown was perfect

    The light saber duel was one of the best ive seen. None of this flashy bullshit. Dont get me wrong, sometimes you want to see that stuff. But what we got was perfect.

    I kept thinking of what yoda said: a jedi uses the force for defence, never attack. Obi wan displayed that perfectly.

    In terms of the outcome of that fight:
    I like to think that the critical mistake Maul made in that fight was trying to goad Kenobi by threatening luke's safety. At that point, he's effectively given Obi Wan carte blanche to end his life. There are no moral quandries or reasons to hestitate in bringing force to bear. It effectively allows Obi Wan a clear focus in ending Maul's life.

    Not to mention they did such a great job at hinting at that fact. The focus on Obi Wan's eyes during that whole exchange was perfect. Just looking at his eyes, you don't need to hear Obi Wan speak his mind, you know what he's thinking just from his expression. It was a beautifully executed moment.

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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    I think that Obi-Wan and Yoda actions with regards to Luke were mostly based on listening to the Force. They'd be like "how about now? Can we train him now?" And the Force kept on being like "Nope." And eventually Yoda was just like "meh, too old he is now" and then Luke showed up on his doorstep and the Force was like "yep, now is good" and Yoda was like "oh bloody hell."

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  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    edited March 25
    Zero Hour Part 1:
    Admiral Konstantine pays dearly for trying to get the on the carrier's killmail...RIP Commander Sato :(

    Edit:
    Zero Hour Part 2:
    at least the Bendu ex machina still leaves Thrawn available to antagonize the cast next season. It feels like an oversight not having Kallus interact with Zeb at the end.

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  • TurksonTurkson Near the mountains of ColoradoRegistered User regular
    Zero Hour:
    I didn't think Kallus was going to make it. I thought his escape pod was going to be vaporized at the last second.

    There are many Interceptors, but this one is mine!

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Edit:
    Zero Hour Part 2:
    at least the Bendu ex machina still leaves Thrawn available to antagonize the cast next season.

    Probably a bit too on the nose, but
    I really wanted the Bendu to say, "It will be... artistic." Then again, perhaps he's not talking about Thrawn's final defeat.

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  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    One nice touch in "Zero Hour" from "Twin Suns"
    Ezra now has Darth Maul's Mandalorian fighter, The Nightbrother, and this probably figured into him being able to navigate Mandalorian space without being blown to bits as a Rebel-affiliated outsider.

    I like that there are more consequences to "Twin Suns" than just Maul biting it.

    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
    Brainleech
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    What is Bendu? a manifestation of the force? The planet itself?

    About Zero Hour
    Why would the Governor be so in line with the standard Empire mindset when she was Thrawn's right hand in the sector. She was Thrawn's fan girl when she first appeared?.
    Still that was kind of a generic Thrawn we saw in the assault with how he followed up a light scout with heavy walkers supported by storm troopers.
    Was his personal guard the Death Troopers?

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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Just caught the Obi-Wan/Maul episode.

    While I was looking forward to an awesome lightsabre battle bouncing all over the Jutland Wastes, what we were given was just...perfect. Perfect.

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  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    What is Bendu? a manifestation of the force? The planet itself?
    Bendu
    He's the one in the middle, duh.

    But seriously, he's a neutral Force user, which seems to give him domain over natural forces. A light side Jedi can control animals, but Bendu doesn't need to. A dark side Sith can shoot lightning, but Bendu becomes the storm.

    He's basically evidence that the Jedi and Sith are fucking doing it wrong.

    My personal crackpot theory is that he is a third sibling from Mortis who was exiled or chose not to participate in the light and dark conflict.

    Gary Gygax wrote:
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  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    One nice touch in "Zero Hour" from "Twin Suns"
    Ezra now has Darth Maul's Mandalorian fighter, The Nightbrother, and this probably figured into him being able to navigate Mandalorian space without being blown to bits as a Rebel-affiliated outsider.

    I like that there are more consequences to "Twin Suns" than just Maul biting it.

    This is funny to me.
    Well, Maul's dead... I'm going to steal from him.
    Brainleech wrote: »
    What is Bendu? a manifestation of the force? The planet itself?
    Bendu
    He's the one in the middle, duh.

    But seriously, he's a neutral Force user, which seems to give him domain over natural forces. A light side Jedi can control animals, but Bendu doesn't need to. A dark side Sith can shoot lightning, but Bendu becomes the storm.

    He's basically evidence that the Jedi and Sith are fucking doing it wrong.

    My personal crackpot theory is that he is a third sibling from Mortis who was exiled or chose not to participate in the light and dark conflict.

    Though, that said
    being in the 'middle' basically turned him into a fence-sitter, coming across either as uncaring or lacking any principles that would drive him to actually fight for one path or another. Jedi and Sith may be a-hole space wizards screwing things up, but remove either one and you still have the Empire, a monumentally oppressive dictatorship causing widespread suffering and misery throughout the galaxy. The Empire would survive the loss of the Sith, which is apparently what Kenobi was talking with Ezra being needed elsewhere - destroying the Sith is the chosen one's destiny, but defeating the Empire is a bigger job that any one person, even a Jedi, can accomplish, hence having Ezra go back to the Rebellion and supporting them. Bendu could have been a part of that regardless of where he stood on the Force, but instead was just a temperamental jerk thunderstorm-guy in the end.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited March 27
    (hoping this is general enough to go unspoilered)

    That's the thing, though. Taken as a whole, in balance or "true neutral", the Force ... doesn't care. Whoever happens to be ascendant at this point in history, the Galaxy will keep on spinning; people will keep on living, and dying. And over time, it all evens out.
    That's nature for you. It doesn't take sides, it just is.

    Commander Zoom on
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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Yeah, the one in the middle seems to be more in the spirit of like nature. If the light side is compassion and empathy, and the dark side is rage and fear and hatred, Bendu is just the force of life itself. He helps when Kanan asks for training, but if Kanan failed he would have died and Bendu wouldn't have cared. Bendu's like a natural force, the river doesn't feel compassion when it parches your thirst nor anger when it floods, it just does what it does. That the Empire is killing and causing suffering is immaterial to Bendu, that's just part of life.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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  • see317see317 Taco Count 2017: 48 Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    One nice touch in "Zero Hour" from "Twin Suns"
    Ezra now has Darth Maul's Mandalorian fighter, The Nightbrother, and this probably figured into him being able to navigate Mandalorian space without being blown to bits as a Rebel-affiliated outsider.

    I like that there are more consequences to "Twin Suns" than just Maul biting it.

    This is funny to me.
    Well, Maul's dead... I'm going to steal from him.
    Well, it's not like Maul's going to need the ship any time soon (unless he comes back to life again).
    And I'm pretty sure it's traditional for a Sith Lord to gift their apprentice a ship so they can go out and do all the Sithy things they're supposed to do.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    Dracomicron
  • BronzeKoopaBronzeKoopa Registered User regular
    The season finale shows again the thing that bothers me about science fiction space navel battles, how the hell are the rebels "blockaded" exactly? Can they not just jump away in the opposite direction of the Imperial fleet, why do you have to fly past all the destroyers? Jump to light speed along the z-axis even? Is it hyperspace routes or being in the planet's orbit or something?

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Because it's really just WW1/2 naval/air battles with lasers. Even down to the trench run. It provides familiarity and makes it easy to understand.

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X The woods are lovely dark and deepRegistered User regular
    yo I just started watching this! It's pretty great, even from the get go. That part in the first episode where Kanan stands up and walks out into blaster fire, then whips out a lightsaber? And then the Stormtrooper's confounded "focus fire on the... uh... Jedi?"

    excellent.

    I like Hera a lot, even tho she hasn't had much screentime. Something about her supreme chill is very calming. Sabine has probably the strongest visual design, with the custom armor and a pink Mandalorian helmet - she's cooool. Didn't care much for Ezra or Zeb at first, but the episode where they go on a road trip and steal a TIE fighter did a lot for them. And Kanan is fascinating, but I assume he and Ezra are doomed in the long run? Last Jedi and all that...

    And miles to go before I sleep.
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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    The season finale shows again the thing that bothers me about science fiction space navel battles, how the hell are the rebels "blockaded" exactly? Can they not just jump away in the opposite direction of the Imperial fleet, why do you have to fly past all the destroyers? Jump to light speed along the z-axis even? Is it hyperspace routes or being in the planet's orbit or something?

    They set up artificial gravity wells which pull you out of hyperspace. You would have to first get out of the planet's gravity well, then you're still in the imperial gravity well.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    The season finale shows again the thing that bothers me about science fiction space navel battles, how the hell are the rebels "blockaded" exactly? Can they not just jump away in the opposite direction of the Imperial fleet, why do you have to fly past all the destroyers? Jump to light speed along the z-axis even? Is it hyperspace routes or being in the planet's orbit or something?

    They set up artificial gravity wells which pull you out of hyperspace. You would have to first get out of the planet's gravity well, then you're still in the imperial gravity well.

    Yup I was impressed they pulled those out. I have seen them in the old RPG books but that was the first time I had ever seen one of those on screen. They are basically modified star destroyers that project massive amounts of gravity waves in an area. Hyperdrives are forced out of warp if they are to close to a gravity well so they basically throw up a wall around an area that blocks hyper jumps from working. They also are not very heavily armed as star destroyer goes so the idiot captain should not have tried to get anywhere near the fight with it. Their job is blockers let the other dedicated combat SD do their job.

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  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    I believe that Interdictors were invented for TIE Fighter. I had to re-do that fucking mission a hundred times.

    Gary Gygax wrote:
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  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    I believe that Interdictors were invented for TIE Fighter. I had to re-do that fucking mission a hundred times.

    I think their use by Zahn in his original Thrawn trilogy predate TIE Fighter.

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  • OrogogusOrogogus San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited March 27
    I want to say that the Interdictor, like a huge swathe of the Star Wars Universe, was invented for the West End Games RPG.

    Orogogus on
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  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    They have pretty much given Thrawn his entire arsenal from the books and some of the games. It is so good.

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X The woods are lovely dark and deepRegistered User regular
    Ezra's Jedi trial was some good stuff. This episode with Lando is next level.

    "I could really use Hera on this side of the pig"

    And miles to go before I sleep.
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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    I believe that Interdictors were invented for TIE Fighter. I had to re-do that fucking mission a hundred times.

    I think their use by Zahn in his original Thrawn trilogy predate TIE Fighter.

    They were in the old west end game starwars RPG system which was out way before clone wars time frame so they have at least been mentioned previously but I think that was the first really cannon showing of them in use which was neat.

  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime Designated Wizard Registered User regular
    edited March 27
    Kana wrote: »
    Yeah, the one in the middle seems to be more in the spirit of like nature. If the light side is compassion and empathy, and the dark side is rage and fear and hatred, Bendu is just the force of life itself. He helps when Kanan asks for training, but if Kanan failed he would have died and Bendu wouldn't have cared. Bendu's like a natural force, the river doesn't feel compassion when it parches your thirst nor anger when it floods, it just does what it does. That the Empire is killing and causing suffering is immaterial to Bendu, that's just part of life.

    This is what people miss when they start getting into "Grey Jedi" which I don't support the concept of. Bendu was 'the one in the middle' but what did he DO really? Nothing. He sat in a rock in the middle of more rocks. If you decide to take that path of the middle you aren't gallivanting around the galaxy as a mover-n-shaker being the ultimate badass. One-upping all the Jedi and Sith by laughing as you say, "I HAVE MASTERED BOTH! HAHAHA!" that's not how it works.

    You aren't mastering both, you are mastering neither. And becoming something different all together. And part of that is practically and literally excising yourself from the Galaxy at large. You aren't more powerful than a Yoda or a Palpatine. You are just on a different area of the map.

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  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    The space combat animations were really good in the last two episodes. Possibly the best quality we've seen in Star Wars Rebels / Clone Wars? Like they seemed to be a step above their normal quality.

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  • see317see317 Taco Count 2017: 48 Registered User regular
    It's a bit disappointing that there wasn't more Defender though.
    I get it, having that move into mass production 5 years before ANH could probably impact the canon substantially, so it can't be allowed to move far beyond a prototype.
    Still would have been nice to see a bit more of it though.
    I do like that twist they gave us for the finale. The entire season has been "Figure out what's going on on Lothal, then build an army to attack Lothal and destroy the super fighter factory", only for the finale to start off with Thrawn saying "No, you." and crushing the rebel base.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    MagicPrime wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    Yeah, the one in the middle seems to be more in the spirit of like nature. If the light side is compassion and empathy, and the dark side is rage and fear and hatred, Bendu is just the force of life itself. He helps when Kanan asks for training, but if Kanan failed he would have died and Bendu wouldn't have cared. Bendu's like a natural force, the river doesn't feel compassion when it parches your thirst nor anger when it floods, it just does what it does. That the Empire is killing and causing suffering is immaterial to Bendu, that's just part of life.

    This is what people miss when they start getting into "Grey Jedi" which I don't support the concept of. Bendu was 'the one in the middle' but what did he DO really? Nothing. He sat in a rock in the middle of more rocks. If you decide to take that path of the middle you aren't gallivanting around the galaxy as a mover-n-shaker being the ultimate badass. One-upping all the Jedi and Sith by laughing as you say, "I HAVE MASTERED BOTH! HAHAHA!" that's not how it works.

    You aren't mastering both, you are mastering neither. And becoming something different all together. And part of that is practically and literally excising yourself from the Galaxy at large. You aren't more powerful than a Yoda or a Palpatine. You are just on a different area of the map.

    One thing that I liked about Bendu from rewatching his scenes is that all his lessons are about clear perception of one's self. He will teach Kanan to understand what he wants and worries about more clearly, but you definitely get the impression he'd do the same for a sith, at least if a sith was polite enough to ask. His lessons are about not being in conflict with oneself. He doesn't really care about what those internal feelings ARE, just that they're being clearly understood. The sith and jedi are both still defined by their relationships and feelings towards others. Empathy and kindness and trust vs. Anger and dominance and fear. Whereas Bendu is entirely internal.

    Bendu isn't really a character the way others are, he's more of a spirit of nature. He's sort of Star Wars crossed with Princess Mononoke.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime Designated Wizard Registered User regular
    edited March 27
    Kana wrote: »
    MagicPrime wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    Yeah, the one in the middle seems to be more in the spirit of like nature. If the light side is compassion and empathy, and the dark side is rage and fear and hatred, Bendu is just the force of life itself. He helps when Kanan asks for training, but if Kanan failed he would have died and Bendu wouldn't have cared. Bendu's like a natural force, the river doesn't feel compassion when it parches your thirst nor anger when it floods, it just does what it does. That the Empire is killing and causing suffering is immaterial to Bendu, that's just part of life.

    This is what people miss when they start getting into "Grey Jedi" which I don't support the concept of. Bendu was 'the one in the middle' but what did he DO really? Nothing. He sat in a rock in the middle of more rocks. If you decide to take that path of the middle you aren't gallivanting around the galaxy as a mover-n-shaker being the ultimate badass. One-upping all the Jedi and Sith by laughing as you say, "I HAVE MASTERED BOTH! HAHAHA!" that's not how it works.

    You aren't mastering both, you are mastering neither. And becoming something different all together. And part of that is practically and literally excising yourself from the Galaxy at large. You aren't more powerful than a Yoda or a Palpatine. You are just on a different area of the map.

    One thing that I liked about Bendu from rewatching his scenes is that all his lessons are about clear perception of one's self. He will teach Kanan to understand what he wants and worries about more clearly, but you definitely get the impression he'd do the same for a sith, at least if a sith was polite enough to ask. His lessons are about not being in conflict with oneself. He doesn't really care about what those internal feelings ARE, just that they're being clearly understood. The sith and jedi are both still defined by their relationships and feelings towards others. Empathy and kindness and trust vs. Anger and dominance and fear. Whereas Bendu is entirely internal.

    Bendu isn't really a character the way others are, he's more of a spirit of nature. He's sort of Star Wars crossed with Princess Mononoke.

    Yes! I've had this same realization. Bendu wasn't trying to teach Kanan to be more grey with learning how to see. Or solving the issues between him and Ezra.

    His teachings and advice were about being true to one's self.

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X The woods are lovely dark and deepRegistered User regular
    wow, this show takes a kinda hard turn from wacky hijinx into some real serious business right around the time
    Tarkin shows up, huh? D:

    having the Inquisitor behead those two fuckups was really startling.

    and then Chopper murders that other droid that Zeb was bonding with.

    SERIOUS BUSINESS

    And miles to go before I sleep.
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  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    wow, this show takes a kinda hard turn from wacky hijinx into some real serious business right around the time
    Tarkin shows up, huh? D:

    having the Inquisitor behead those two fuckups was really startling.

    and then Chopper murders that other droid that Zeb was bonding with.

    SERIOUS BUSINESS

    Chopper murders a lot of people. They all blend together over time.
    (in the recycler)

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie This is NOT normalRegistered User regular
    wow, this show takes a kinda hard turn from wacky hijinx into some real serious business right around the time
    Tarkin shows up, huh? D:

    having the Inquisitor behead those two fuckups was really startling.

    and then Chopper murders that other droid that Zeb was bonding with.

    SERIOUS BUSINESS

    To be fair
    That Droid is seen pulling itself upright after it hits the ground, in front of some mildly interested lothcats. It could be argued that it rolls on back to civilisation, but I keep secretly hoping it pops up in a future episode, feral and covered in stripey paint, leading a pack of killer lothcats.

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  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular


    What I liked with Zero Hour was:
    Agent Kallus manages to defect to rebellion. From primary villain to ally has been an interesting arc and I can't wait to see more of him in the next season as he becomes a bona fide rebel(and probably replacing Sabine in the crew).

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  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    That is one of the things I am curious about is how they will use him in the future
    He knows things that were off the books about the empire in the sector but did not pass on as Fulcrum.

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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    I wonder if he remembered to pack his dumb helmet and shock stick.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    I'm looking forward to any character design overhauls for the next season. season 2 was already a big improvement.

    I wonder how much more effort robes and stuff are, because in comparison to the Clone Wars there's a distinct lack of robes or or even long coats in Rebels. The only characters to have those and or long dresses are characters from the original trilogy.

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