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    AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    EDIT: This was the wrong thread. I will find a comic to put here.

    EDITEDIT: Fuck it, you get a comic about football in a foreign language.

    Pondus_l_rdag_uke_1_564962a.JPG

    Abdhyius on
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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Target is a corporation; it only makes business decisions. The decision not to sell GTA5 for public image driven reasons is just as much a business decision as to not stock a product they don't think will move. The why behind the decision is irrelevant to whether or not something is 'censorship.'

    I don't really want to get into dictionary wars (suffice it to say different publications provide a more robust definition than meriam-webster's online iteration), so I will just say that a single retail outlet choosing not to stock whatever media product does not rise to the level of an 'institution or system.' Or if it does, again, you've created a definition of 'censorship' that voids the word of any real meaning.

    I'm just going to say that their business decision was intrinsically tied to a moral declaration, and something they did publicly, which pretty conclusively puts it on the side of "censorship" to my mind. You can do something for more than one reason, people often have multiple motivations behind their actions. I'm not going to play dictionary dickwaving now either, and just say I think you're wrong and that opposite of being overbroad, you are intentionally being overly narrow in your definition of censorship.

    And now I'm done talking about this because I think both sides are pretty well defined and we disagree on a fundamental definition of a word so arguing the point isn't going to produce any real useful debate here. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, as my and many other mothers would say.

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    Daddy Two-CoatsDaddy Two-Coats Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Gvzbgul wrote: »

    Not picking on you specifically, but 'what if everyone did this?' or 'what if this was the case every time?' is a bullshit argument. (see: 'if everyone was gay the human race would die out' or many other examples)

    You're absolutely right, I thought I'd headed that off by saying it was a completely hypothetical situation. That's the thing I think people might be missing in his post; it's not that this is a warning of imminent oppression or anything, he's just saying that censorship exists, and this is an example. We're talking about it like it's the First Amendment kind of deal where, as Jerry said: "People like to say that it’s only censorship when an agent of the state kicks down your door and burns your printing press or whatever," but it's a more fluid term and it's at least worth pointing at if you're the kind of person who's in the business of making art (especially art with as many dick jokes as he does).

    Daddy Two-Coats on
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    imdointhisimdointhis I should actually stop doin' this. Registered User regular
    jerkcity750.gif

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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Hey here's a webcomic, I forgot to post the last page.

    The She-Devil
    2-9-8.jpg.jpeg

    http://www.harkovast.com/?id=346

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Moth 13 wrote: »
    2014-12-05-29p14.jpg
    There's probably twelve nineties era superheroes with that mask.

    The Adventures of Dr. McNinja

    Isn't it a bit soon for Overkill to do another cross-promotion DLC

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Hey! Love Me Nice updated!

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    oS3O5Sj.jpg
    zobMM3s.jpg

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
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    ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    Holy shit my wife would have killed me

    g1xfUKU.png?10zfegkyoor3b.png
    Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
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    MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    I'm just going to say that their business decision was intrinsically tied to a moral declaration, and something they did publicly, which pretty conclusively puts it on the side of "censorship" to my mind.

    Slippery fuckin' slope we're walking here

    Target pulled the game in response to customer complaints; had nobody complained, the game would still be sold there. Maybe they shouldn't have bowed to pressure from a vocal minority, but then sometimes vocal minorities have good points to make??

    l3icwZV.png
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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    I don't feel like I should have to keep saying that censorship is not always bad and is not always inappropriate. But censorship isn't always bad, and it isn't always inappropriate. So there's no slippery slope. You can agree or disagree with specific instances of censorship while still admitting it's censorship.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    Elbasunu wrote: »
    Holy shit my wife would have killed me

    The worst part is that this sort of shit is just what he does and kinda half the reason she's so into him. Their kid is gonna be so messed up…

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
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    MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    I don't feel like I should have to keep saying that censorship is not always bad and is not always inappropriate. But censorship isn't always bad, and it isn't always inappropriate. So there's no slippery slope. You can agree or disagree with specific instances of censorship while still admitting it's censorship.

    but it isn't censorship

    target is not preventing you from getting gta5. It's not even making a half-hearted effort to do so. It just won't be your dealer.

    l3icwZV.png
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    Daddy Two-CoatsDaddy Two-Coats Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    I don't feel like I should have to keep saying that censorship is not always bad and is not always inappropriate. But censorship isn't always bad, and it isn't always inappropriate. So there's no slippery slope. You can agree or disagree with specific instances of censorship while still admitting it's censorship.

    It's one of those things that we generally feel differently about in terms of practical vs. hypothetical. It's kinda like gun control arguments: people know they'll probably never have to actually use the thing but are terrified that someone COULD take it away because rights and freedom and so on

    Daddy Two-Coats on
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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Machwing wrote: »
    I don't feel like I should have to keep saying that censorship is not always bad and is not always inappropriate. But censorship isn't always bad, and it isn't always inappropriate. So there's no slippery slope. You can agree or disagree with specific instances of censorship while still admitting it's censorship.

    but it isn't censorship

    target is not preventing you from getting gta5. It's not even making a half-hearted effort to do so. It just won't be your dealer.

    I'm going to direct you to my previous posts.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Hey! Love Me Nice updated!

    FzYbpNV.jpg
    92fzqMR.jpg
    oS3O5Sj.jpg
    zobMM3s.jpg

    man, I am soooo Mac

    ikbUJdU.jpg
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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    I always thought that freedom of speech was about being able to openly disagree with the government without fearing an armed deathsquad coming to your door, and less about being able to say racist things in a public space.

    also i would buy McNinja DLC for payday 2.

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    Clint EastwoodClint Eastwood My baby's in there someplace She crawled right inRegistered User regular
    As a gamer,

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    Daddy Two-CoatsDaddy Two-Coats Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Melding wrote: »
    I always thought that freedom of speech was about being able to openly disagree with the government without fearing an armed deathsquad coming to your door, and less about being able to say racist things in a public space.

    also i would buy McNinja DLC for payday 2.

    Right, we've said already we're not talking about constitutional freedom of speech. For better or for worse, choosing what the public can and can't be exposed to based on the morals of a public or private entity is an act of censorship. It's more about figuring out how much is too much, when it's appropriate, the definition of "the public good" etc. It's mostly just something artists like to make sure we're constantly re-examining so it DOESN'T get out of hand.

    Daddy Two-Coats on
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    imdointhisimdointhis I should actually stop doin' this. Registered User regular
    As a gamer,

    This is what we need, REAL #gamers #realgamers #gamingsrealgamers #butts weighing in on the important topics. #truebravery in the face of adversity.

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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Target is a corporation; it only makes business decisions. The decision not to sell GTA5 for public image driven reasons is just as much a business decision as to not stock a product they don't think will move. The why behind the decision is irrelevant to whether or not something is 'censorship.'

    I don't really want to get into dictionary wars (suffice it to say different publications provide a more robust definition than meriam-webster's online iteration), so I will just say that a single retail outlet choosing not to stock whatever media product does not rise to the level of an 'institution or system.' Or if it does, again, you've created a definition of 'censorship' that voids the word of any real meaning.

    I'm just going to say that their business decision was intrinsically tied to a moral declaration, and something they did publicly, which pretty conclusively puts it on the side of "censorship" to my mind. You can do something for more than one reason, people often have multiple motivations behind their actions. I'm not going to play dictionary dickwaving now either, and just say I think you're wrong and that opposite of being overbroad, you are intentionally being overly narrow in your definition of censorship.

    And now I'm done talking about this because I think both sides are pretty well defined and we disagree on a fundamental definition of a word so arguing the point isn't going to produce any real useful debate here. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, as my and many other mothers would say.

    By strict dictionary terms it's not censorship and the only reason I hammer on that fact when normally you can term it anything you want is: Censorship is straight up fucking awful. Calling Target not carrying a game censorship is weakening what censorship actually is.

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    Daddy Two-CoatsDaddy Two-Coats Registered User regular
    imdointhis wrote: »
    As a gamer,

    This is what we need, REAL #gamers #realgamers #gamingsrealgamers #butts weighing in on the important topics. #truebravery in the face of adversity.

    #frommywetclammyhands

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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Melding wrote: »
    I always thought that freedom of speech was about being able to openly disagree with the government without fearing an armed deathsquad coming to your door, and less about being able to say racist things in a public space.

    also i would buy McNinja DLC for payday 2.

    Right, we've said already we're not talking about constitutional freedom of speech. For better or for worse, choosing what the public can and can't be exposed to based on the morals of a public or private entity is an act of censorship. It's more about figuring out how much is too much, when it's appropriate, the definition of "the public good" etc. It's mostly just something artists like to make sure we're constantly re-examining so it DOESN'T get out of hand.

    Choosing from a position of absolute power tho. Target is not in that. If they were the only store in Austrailia, heck yeah.

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    imdointhisimdointhis I should actually stop doin' this. Registered User regular
    This entire time, the Target Logo was actually covering up a picture of a raunchy sex act between two furries.

    It was censorship the whole time.

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    MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    stop doin this

    l3icwZV.png
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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    imdointhis wrote: »
    This entire time, the Target Logo was actually covering up a picture of a raunchy sex act between two furries.

    It was censorship the whole time.

    surprise the target logo is an anus

    it's the gay mafia

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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    EDIT: This was the wrong thread. I will find a comic to put here.

    EDITEDIT: Fuck it, you get a comic about football in a foreign language.

    Pondus_l_rdag_uke_1_564962a.JPG

    I really like the art style of this, it has the feel of when newspaper style comics used to have actual art in them and weren't compressed to cram as many onto a single page as possible.

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    MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    webcomics

    174.jpg

    judecca is nothin' but tits

    Machwing on
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    Daddy Two-CoatsDaddy Two-Coats Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    Choosing from a position of absolute power tho. Target is not in that. If they were the only store in Austrailia, heck yeah.

    I mean look, I don't wanna drag this out any more so I'll shut up after this post, but nowhere in any definition of censorship I've ever seen has it said that the person committing the act has to be in a position of absolute power. It varies by degree; we still call bleeped-out swears on TV/in music the "censored" version even though you can get the swear version elsewhere. It isn't just oppressive, all-ecompassing whitewashing. That's where people seem to not be understanding each other in this conversation: we're not talking about Orwellian shit, just the creep of what some of us think is a harmful practice.

    Daddy Two-Coats on
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    epburnepburn Registered User regular

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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited December 2014
    I feel (in my opinion) like you're defining censorship based on a subjective point of view about how it ought to be and not what it is. Burning art is censorship. Stephen Colbert's cursing being bleeped out on cable is also censorship.

    You feel like censorship is always 100% bad and awful, because you define it as the kind that is 100% always bad and awful. So when someone else uses it to describe the lower end of censorship you feel like it's being diluted. But it's not.

    But again I don't see why you feel the need to "hammer it in" because it seems pretty clear we fundamentally disagree about what censorship is and what censorship means. You feel like it means an absolute overarching authority declaring what is and is not acceptable on all level of a society. I feel like it includes that, but also many lesser examples. It seems like you feel that including those lesser examples dilutes its impact for the most extreme versions of it, and I disagree.

    And so we are at an impasse. A stalemate. I can see your argument and I disagree with it, and I'm pretty sure you know my argument and disagree with it. Fundamentally. So this is not a productive argument to have. We have to agree to disagree for now. And post webcomics maybe.

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    I don't feel like I should have to keep saying that censorship is not always bad and is not always inappropriate. But censorship isn't always bad, and it isn't always inappropriate. So there's no slippery slope. You can agree or disagree with specific instances of censorship while still admitting it's censorship.

    "censorship" is a word like "propaganda" which is so associated with repressive regimes that people forget that we already depend on a mild amount of both

    we don't see snuff videos on television because of censorship, and those ads for healthcare.gov are literally propaganda

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    Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    Brolo wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    EDIT: This was the wrong thread. I will find a comic to put here.

    EDITEDIT: Fuck it, you get a comic about football in a foreign language.

    Pondus_l_rdag_uke_1_564962a.JPG

    I really like the art style of this, it has the feel of when newspaper style comics used to have actual art in them and weren't compressed to cram as many onto a single page as possible.
    It's a norwegian comic that's being run in a few newspapers here in scandinavia.

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    MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    really though I am sick and tired of Trader Joe's censoring Wonderbread!!!

    l3icwZV.png
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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    I don't feel like I should have to keep saying that censorship is not always bad and is not always inappropriate. But censorship isn't always bad, and it isn't always inappropriate. So there's no slippery slope. You can agree or disagree with specific instances of censorship while still admitting it's censorship.

    "censorship" is a word like "propaganda" which is so associated with repressive regimes that people forget that we already depend on a mild amount of both

    we don't see snuff videos on television because of censorship, and those ads for healthcare.gov are literally propaganda

    we don't see snuff videos because there's never been a instance of anyone ever seeing or making a snuff video but that's another story

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    BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    I don't feel like I should have to keep saying that censorship is not always bad and is not always inappropriate. But censorship isn't always bad, and it isn't always inappropriate. So there's no slippery slope. You can agree or disagree with specific instances of censorship while still admitting it's censorship.

    "censorship" is a word like "propaganda" which is so associated with repressive regimes that people forget that we already depend on a mild amount of both

    we don't see snuff videos on television because of censorship, and those ads for healthcare.gov are literally propaganda

    we don't see snuff videos because there's never been a instance of anyone ever seeing or making a snuff video but that's another story

    a story i wanna hear

    CD World Tour status:
    Baidol Voprostein Avraham Thetheroo Taya Zerofill Effef Crimson King Lalabox Mortal Sky ASimPerson Sal Wiet Theidar Tynic Speed Racer Neotoma Goatmon ==>Larlar Munkus Beaver Day of the Bear miscellaneousinsanity Skull Man Delzhand Caulk Bite 6 Somestickguy
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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Look censureship is actually [Redacted]

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    It's not like anyone is going to [REDACTED] if we [REDACTED].

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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    I feel (in my opinion) like you're defining censorship based on a subjective point of view about how it ought to be and not what it is. Burning art is censorship. Stephen Colbert's cursing being bleeped out on cable is also censorship.

    You feel like censorship is always 100% bad and awful, because you define it as the kind that is 100% always bad and awful. So when someone else uses it to describe the lower end of censorship you feel like it's being diluted. But it's not.

    But again I don't see why you feel the need to "hammer it in" because it seems pretty clear we fundamentally disagree about what censorship is and what censorship means. You feel like it means an absolute overarching authority declaring what is and is not acceptable on all level of a society. I feel like it includes that, but also many lesser examples. It seems like you feel that including those lesser examples dilutes its impact for the most extreme versions of it, and I disagree.

    And so we are at an impasse. A stalemate. I can see your argument and I disagree with it, and I'm pretty sure you know my argument and disagree with it. Fundamentally. So this is not a productive argument to have. We have to agree to disagree for now. And post webcomics maybe.

    I don't think we're having an argument. I like hearing your thoughts on it. Discussion is the worst thing I would call this. I'm not at an impasse at all; I'm totally prepared to change my view on the subject.

    I also agree that burning art and bleeping Stephen is censorship. The art is GONE. That's absolute. The bleep is absolute too; it's far down the scale but yeah, still is.

    I just always consider censorship bad, whether the message is women shouldn't be victimized or all homosexuals should be killed, because we should not be denied the chance to decide for ourselves or we'll never be able to make the correct decision.

    Also WEBCOMICS

    Does anyone read Boumeries? I love it.

    2014-10-01-nipples.png

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    Snuff films don't exist, it turns out that the human species isn't that bad. (There's the possibly that there's a couple, but they practically don't exist.)

    Now, videos of people dying getting uploaded to liveleak with titles like 'Lol, construction worker fail!' those are really common.

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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    JHwET0W.png
    WISHES DO COME TRUE
    december 5, 2014
    why do genies care about this rule? let’s say i’m only allowed three wishes. i only need one to wish for the destruction of all things, the end of the universe. what the hell worse could i do with four wishes instead of three?

    look at what humanity is already capable of doing with zero wishes

    have a great weekend

    http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2014/12/05/wishes-do-come-true/

This discussion has been closed.