I'm still not seeing the point in ever picking the pink haired roid pixie over the other tanks. Less mobile, less damage, less tank, less shielding than Winston or Reinhardt.
Am I the only one who is just okay with the only reward in the game being the intrinsic joy of playing it?
I get that every game now has bars that fill up and a progression system so when you're not leveling up it feels like you're "wasting your time".
I mean, you're not wrong to be satisfied with the base game. That doesn't mean the people who want progression systems are wrong either. It's ok to have both.
No. I'm pretty sure progression is wrong.
That's a pretty uh, sweeping statement.
I don't think progression is "wrong". I think it depends on the kind of game. For this sort of game? I don't think it'd work out too well. It would really detract from the way the game operates on a base level. But at the same time, if they could do it in a way that isn't terrible, yeah I might be for it.
Actually, a good example of a progression system is Heroes of the Storm. So, Talent Gating aside (which is terrible and everyone knows that, and they're removing it anyway), all the progression does in that game is unlock cosmetic shit. Here's a new color tint for your Hero. Here's a new color tint for your Mount. Here's a portrait. Here's a cooler portrait. Here's a Master Skin for this Hero that you can buy with Gold instead of money. Here, HAVE SOME GOLD.
Admittedly, maybe including gold as a reward isn't great? But it's also pretty high up and it feels nice getting that chunk when you've invested that much time in a character.
Anyway, opinions, man. Yeah.
Yeah, the thing with Blizzard is that they love their progression mechanics but they generally avoid having them impact the ability of the game to function or having them fuck up balance.
Usually the only non-cosmetic-like shit they will have you unlocking will be based not on wanting to make you play more by gimping you till you do but on thinking you are a complete noob who can't handle that much complexity right away. Because Blizzard designs every game to be picked up by your arthritic blind grandfather who never even owned a TV let alone played a videogame before he for some strange reason decided to buy and play Overwatch on his 95th birthday. (see - the tutorials)
Am I the only one who is just okay with the only reward in the game being the intrinsic joy of playing it?
I get that every game now has bars that fill up and a progression system so when you're not leveling up it feels like you're "wasting your time".
I mean, you're not wrong to be satisfied with the base game. That doesn't mean the people who want progression systems are wrong either. It's ok to have both.
No. I'm pretty sure progression is wrong.
That's a pretty uh, sweeping statement.
I don't think progression is "wrong". I think it depends on the kind of game. For this sort of game? I don't think it'd work out too well. It would really detract from the way the game operates on a base level. But at the same time, if they could do it in a way that isn't terrible, yeah I might be for it.
Actually, a good example of a progression system is Heroes of the Storm. So, Talent Gating aside (which is terrible and everyone knows that, and they're removing it anyway), all the progression does in that game is unlock cosmetic shit. Here's a new color tint for your Hero. Here's a new color tint for your Mount. Here's a portrait. Here's a cooler portrait. Here's a Master Skin for this Hero that you can buy with Gold instead of money. Here, HAVE SOME GOLD.
Admittedly, maybe including gold as a reward isn't great? But it's also pretty high up and it feels nice getting that chunk when you've invested that much time in a character.
Anyway, opinions, man. Yeah.
Yeah, the thing with Blizzard is that they love their progression mechanics but they generally avoid having them impact the ability of the game to function or having them fuck up balance.
Usually the only non-cosmetic-like shit they will have you unlocking will be based not on wanting to make you play more by gimping you till you do but on thinking you are a complete noob who can't handle that much complexity right away. Because Blizzard designs every game to be picked up by your arthritic blind grandfather who never even owned a TV let alone played a videogame before he for some strange reason decided to buy and play Overwatch on his 95th birthday. (see - the tutorials)
Well, really, every game manual has to assume the user is a time traveler from the 17th century who has never seen a television before. I've written my share of "how to insert the disc into the console" instructions, and still took calls about whether the shiny side goes up or down every once in a while.
GNU Terry Pratchett
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
0
MachwingIt looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it?Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered Userregular
edited November 2015
I've had a chance to play every character now, here's MAH PERSONAL FAVOS
Pharah - OH YEAH this character scratches my UT2K4 and Tribes itches simultaneously. I get overconfident with her ult sometimes and get sniped out 25% into it, but I don't even care. People in videogames don't look up and I will be ever glad for it
Mei - So trolly, so good. Ice-walling the enemy team off isn't always the best option; it's better to separate a player or two from the rest of their team during a charge, if you can. Her ult is as good as Zarya's for clearing a cap point if your team knows to act on it.
Reinhart - Stupid useful on both offense and defense! Real important that your team knows how to use you though
Genji - I initially wasn't a huge fan, but he's REALLY good if you've got a tank or somebody around to soak damage. Last-hitting to chain the dashes is real good. He's a hard counter to turrets, which is lovely! Bunny hopping too stronk
AND THE REST, IN ORDER OF MY LOVE
Zarya
Jet Grind Radio
Hanzo
Winston
pigma dengar
D.Va
Bastion
Torb borb
Solider: 76
Symmetra
die die die
Mercy
The bad guy from the incredibles
Zenyatta
Tracer
McCree (i can't snipe)
Widowmaker (i can't snipe)
So the counter to 6 Reinhardts on a cart is a single Roadhog standing on it, jumping over hammers, and healing whenever it is up. Don't ask me how I know.
Reinhardt is pretty bad 1v1 unless his opponent has to get close or he can kill with one ranged attack.
The thing is, his skills are ridiculous for teamplay, to the point where he is the lynchpin of just about every comp. Much like Mercy and Lucio, I think Reinhardt can fit into any comp without question. The only "drawback" is that he is just generally good and doesn't especially hard counter other characters like his fellow tanks.
Geez. The defenders having more than one turret set up at a point goes beyond the ability of any PUG game to break. Anyone can get the bright idea of jumping a turret with a Reinhardt/Winston/Reaper/Tracer whatever and neutralizing it, but if you don't time multiple such efforts at the same time against multiple turrets, you're never ever going to break it.
Especially the case on the pagoda map's B point.
The "my ult is charged" notice could stand to be a lot more noticeable.
Most of the matchups seems pretty decent, but so far Lucio is sticking out for me as super broken right now. Extremely sustainable healing, surprisingly good damage for a support and a small model that's hard to hit.
0
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Symmetra and Zenyatta feel more like "hybrid" supports, in that they provide a lot of value outside pure healing but you would want them as sort of a secondary support. Kind of like Tassadar and Tyrande in HotS.
Lots of complaining on the official forums about Bastion being overpowered. Ignoring the fact that multiple heroes can flank around him without too much trouble. There seems to be a real lack of desire by a lot of people to switch their character/team composition to deal with threats. Hopefully as time goes on that won't be as much of an issue. There's a reason Blizzard doesn't show you enemy picks until the match starts, and no lock you into picks during the match.
As far as supports go, Lucio is the one I enjoy the most by far. I like being able to contribute a bit of damage to the team, and be mobile without needing to keep myself tied directly to hurt players, or the tank on the payload. I can zip around and harass while I play soothing music to heal those around me. It's an interesting take on the traditional medic class that I and so many others are used to. It also thankfully gives me at least one hero in each category that I like playing, and can play pretty well. Still not 100% on how his pump it up skill works though. The number seems to fluctuate at times even when I'm not using that skill?
Aside from that, Roadhog was my jam yesterday, and maybe my favoured character moving forward. Sometimes there seems to be a reluctance for people to take the tanking role, so I can hop onto him and land hooks for days. I generally like to be annoying in team based shooters. Generally disrupting or harassing the enemy team. Roadhog's hook lets me do that in spades. Hooking McCree, or Soldier 76 during their ultimate is so satisfying. You can pull people off control points, or playloads. Haul snipers off their perches. Grab healers, or others and pull them right into your group. It's an amazingly fun tool.
Last day for me, and I still have a few characters to try. Probably gonna start with Genji, I guess.
SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
What is good against upgraded turrets, anyway? They seem able to murderalize Tracer, Reaper, and Zarya before I can take them out, even if I'm sitting right on top of them. They also seem to turn fast enough that I can't outrun their tracking.
Do I just need to git gud or are there specific heroes that can dismantle them?
Bastion, on the other hand, has become my favorite target at the start of a match, especially since the ones that siege up on Gibraltar never expect a Tracer to be behind them in 5 seconds.
What is good against upgraded turrets, anyway? They seem able to murderalize Tracer, Reaper, and Zarya before I can take them out, even if I'm sitting right on top of them. They also seem to turn fast enough that I can't outrun their tracking.
Do I just need to git gud or are there specific heroes that can dismantle them?
Bastion, on the other hand, has become my favorite target at the start of a match, especially since the ones that siege up on Gibraltar never expect a Tracer to be behind them in 5 seconds.
Turrets are more something you take out with like D.Va. Her block is amazing at keeping the team up while you kill it. Also for tracer use your bomb on the turret. And I don't think it has a 360 turn radius just a from like 200 degree arch. So find a way behind it if you can. Also some folks out range them like Widow and Hanzo though you need to kill the dwarf first for that.
What is good against upgraded turrets, anyway? They seem able to murderalize Tracer, Reaper, and Zarya before I can take them out, even if I'm sitting right on top of them. They also seem to turn fast enough that I can't outrun their tracking.
Do I just need to git gud or are there specific heroes that can dismantle them?
Bastion, on the other hand, has become my favorite target at the start of a match, especially since the ones that siege up on Gibraltar never expect a Tracer to be behind them in 5 seconds.
I'll admit to having more trouble with turrets than with Bastion, but my technique to take them out usually is to use a character that lobs explosive shots, like Junkrat or Zarya (or Pharra even if her missiles don't lob). Just figure out exactly where the turret is, get out of cover for a millionth of a second, shoot some shit at it, run back into cover, and if there's a health kit nearby, rinse and repeat. Zarya's shield allows you to be out of cover for a tiny bit longer and find the turret without dying.
I played a couple matches against a really good Mei last night. They'd take on up to three of us at once and still manage to get away (usually after killing one of us). It was mostly good positioning that let them use the ice wall to escape. Those matches were both frustrating and impressive. That said, I think maybe her time to freeze should be just a smidge higher. Like, half a second more.
I also got to make good use of Tracer. Teams rarely need more offense, so I typically play one of the other class types and have only played Tracer a handful of times. It's a lot of fun to get deep behind enemy lines and be an annoying mosquito in their ears.
What is good against upgraded turrets, anyway? They seem able to murderalize Tracer, Reaper, and Zarya before I can take them out, even if I'm sitting right on top of them. They also seem to turn fast enough that I can't outrun their tracking.
Do I just need to git gud or are there specific heroes that can dismantle them?
Bastion, on the other hand, has become my favorite target at the start of a match, especially since the ones that siege up on Gibraltar never expect a Tracer to be behind them in 5 seconds.
When D.Va uses her dash and ults while dashing, her mech will continue to travel even while she ejects back.
A charging D.Va launching her mech into a turret will one-shot it even at level 3.
I think my favorite play was as Junkrat. Got hooked by Roadhog dropped a trap as soon as I came out of stun. Roadhog steps on the trap. I die AND BOOM! Roadhog eats all of my on death explosives. Hilarious. Also Reapers who use their ShadowStep to get over my trap kill me only to die to the explosives.
I think my favorite play was as Junkrat. Got hooked by Roadhog dropped a trap as soon as I came out of stun. Roadhog steps on the trap. I die AND BOOM! Roadhog eats all of my on death explosives. Hilarious. Also Reapers who use their ShadowStep to get over my trap kill me only to die to the explosives.
Dropping your trap behind you so idiot Tracers dash past you only to land in the trap is also fun.
0
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Reaper and Tracer absolutely annihilate Bastion, because they can easily get behind him and kill him in the time it takes to change modes.
Symmetra's balls also go through shields and charged up they do a pile of damage, so if you can poke around a corner a few times you can at least force a bastion to retreat
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
+3
MrVyngaardLive From New EtoileStraight Outta SosariaRegistered Userregular
This is glorious.
Been messing with D.va, Mercy, and Hanzo so far. Enjoying the hell out of it.
Official release being so far away makes me a sad MrV.
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
In that last dev vid, and as other streamers have testified, people new to the game have a bunch of trouble with bastion.
Then you get used to all the ways to deal with him or flank him and it goes the opposite way and he's viewed as a bit weak.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
+4
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
What is good against upgraded turrets, anyway? They seem able to murderalize Tracer, Reaper, and Zarya before I can take them out, even if I'm sitting right on top of them. They also seem to turn fast enough that I can't outrun their tracking.
You can spam turrets down with Pharah rockets from long distance if you can find a good sight line.
the fact that torbjorn's metal doesn't restock when he respawns is ridiculous.
Not really considering your Turret stays in the world.
Torbjorn is my fav so far. He is relatively weak 1v1 without prior setup but is a strong back liner. Setting up a turret on a defend will ruin its day if you do it correctly allowing you to hide sometimes and ultimate it up as the whole other team attempts to take it down. I need to get better at offense with him as I typically setup for tiny pushes but you eventually you have to move the turret which is meh.
My favorite thing to do on him is taking out those pesky flankers like reaper with relative ease. I can usually even take down a D.Va if my turret is at least level 2. But easiest at lvl 3. Then I just heal up my turret and move on. The guys who can take down the turret the easiest is Hanzo's Ult plus pot shots at it and Genzo. I have more problems with Reinhart than D.Va usually for the tanks. If you are having problems with a Torborn I can say with experience just get a good sniper on your team that can backline focus well. Most of the games where my KD ratio on him is 1:1 is because of a good widowmaker taking me out and then the rest of the team rushing my turret.
Jubal77 on
0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Alternately, spam out the turret with Lucio shots (having a Reinhardt take turret aggro helps a lot) and you'll eventually get enough accidental headshots on the dorf to kill him.
It gets to be a problem when you have multiple turrets/bastions covering each other. Suddenly your solo initiative becomes suicide and it becomes "be on a coordinated voice chat team or you're screwed".
+2
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Came back in today with fresh eyes, had a much better time with Pharah. Was actually landing a good amount of direct rockets and killing stuff. Then our push stalled hard and I realized our mercy had switched to Widowmaker. So I switch to Lucio and we don't stop until right before the final point, where we're stalled for like 30 seconds before I get another broshield and we win.
So many Widowmakers in Attack with nobody standing on the capture point... so depressing.
+5
MrVyngaardLive From New EtoileStraight Outta SosariaRegistered Userregular
I hear you, just got out of a similar game where finally I had to put the Tank pants on. Think I'll just have to become more well-rounded, which is fine.
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
Posts
Nah. Those three maps are locked in for the Beta Weekend, it's entirely on purpose.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
A teleporter makes such a gigantic difference when your team is the one spawning further from the battle that she's almost mandatory.
Yeah, the thing with Blizzard is that they love their progression mechanics but they generally avoid having them impact the ability of the game to function or having them fuck up balance.
Usually the only non-cosmetic-like shit they will have you unlocking will be based not on wanting to make you play more by gimping you till you do but on thinking you are a complete noob who can't handle that much complexity right away. Because Blizzard designs every game to be picked up by your arthritic blind grandfather who never even owned a TV let alone played a videogame before he for some strange reason decided to buy and play Overwatch on his 95th birthday. (see - the tutorials)
Well, really, every game manual has to assume the user is a time traveler from the 17th century who has never seen a television before. I've written my share of "how to insert the disc into the console" instructions, and still took calls about whether the shiny side goes up or down every once in a while.
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
Pharah - OH YEAH this character scratches my UT2K4 and Tribes itches simultaneously. I get overconfident with her ult sometimes and get sniped out 25% into it, but I don't even care. People in videogames don't look up and I will be ever glad for it
Mei - So trolly, so good. Ice-walling the enemy team off isn't always the best option; it's better to separate a player or two from the rest of their team during a charge, if you can. Her ult is as good as Zarya's for clearing a cap point if your team knows to act on it.
Reinhart - Stupid useful on both offense and defense! Real important that your team knows how to use you though
Genji - I initially wasn't a huge fan, but he's REALLY good if you've got a tank or somebody around to soak damage. Last-hitting to chain the dashes is real good. He's a hard counter to turrets, which is lovely! Bunny hopping too stronk
AND THE REST, IN ORDER OF MY LOVE
Zarya
Jet Grind Radio
Hanzo
Winston
pigma dengar
D.Va
Bastion
Torb borb
Solider: 76
Symmetra
die die die
Mercy
The bad guy from the incredibles
Zenyatta
Tracer
McCree (i can't snipe)
Widowmaker (i can't snipe)
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
The thing is, his skills are ridiculous for teamplay, to the point where he is the lynchpin of just about every comp. Much like Mercy and Lucio, I think Reinhardt can fit into any comp without question. The only "drawback" is that he is just generally good and doesn't especially hard counter other characters like his fellow tanks.
Especially the case on the pagoda map's B point.
The "my ult is charged" notice could stand to be a lot more noticeable.
Lucio is by far the best support right now
Symmetra and Zenyatta feel more like "hybrid" supports, in that they provide a lot of value outside pure healing but you would want them as sort of a secondary support. Kind of like Tassadar and Tyrande in HotS.
It's like getting socked in the face by the Velma Dinkley of Overwatch.
As far as supports go, Lucio is the one I enjoy the most by far. I like being able to contribute a bit of damage to the team, and be mobile without needing to keep myself tied directly to hurt players, or the tank on the payload. I can zip around and harass while I play soothing music to heal those around me. It's an interesting take on the traditional medic class that I and so many others are used to. It also thankfully gives me at least one hero in each category that I like playing, and can play pretty well. Still not 100% on how his pump it up skill works though. The number seems to fluctuate at times even when I'm not using that skill?
Aside from that, Roadhog was my jam yesterday, and maybe my favoured character moving forward. Sometimes there seems to be a reluctance for people to take the tanking role, so I can hop onto him and land hooks for days. I generally like to be annoying in team based shooters. Generally disrupting or harassing the enemy team. Roadhog's hook lets me do that in spades. Hooking McCree, or Soldier 76 during their ultimate is so satisfying. You can pull people off control points, or playloads. Haul snipers off their perches. Grab healers, or others and pull them right into your group. It's an amazingly fun tool.
Last day for me, and I still have a few characters to try. Probably gonna start with Genji, I guess.
Bastion is a threat?
Junkrat destroys him as well.
I mean when the cavalry isn't here.
Do I just need to git gud or are there specific heroes that can dismantle them?
Bastion, on the other hand, has become my favorite target at the start of a match, especially since the ones that siege up on Gibraltar never expect a Tracer to be behind them in 5 seconds.
Turrets are more something you take out with like D.Va. Her block is amazing at keeping the team up while you kill it. Also for tracer use your bomb on the turret. And I don't think it has a 360 turn radius just a from like 200 degree arch. So find a way behind it if you can. Also some folks out range them like Widow and Hanzo though you need to kill the dwarf first for that.
I'll admit to having more trouble with turrets than with Bastion, but my technique to take them out usually is to use a character that lobs explosive shots, like Junkrat or Zarya (or Pharra even if her missiles don't lob). Just figure out exactly where the turret is, get out of cover for a millionth of a second, shoot some shit at it, run back into cover, and if there's a health kit nearby, rinse and repeat. Zarya's shield allows you to be out of cover for a tiny bit longer and find the turret without dying.
I also got to make good use of Tracer. Teams rarely need more offense, so I typically play one of the other class types and have only played Tracer a handful of times. It's a lot of fun to get deep behind enemy lines and be an annoying mosquito in their ears.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
When D.Va uses her dash and ults while dashing, her mech will continue to travel even while she ejects back.
A charging D.Va launching her mech into a turret will one-shot it even at level 3.
Dropping your trap behind you so idiot Tracers dash past you only to land in the trap is also fun.
Been messing with D.va, Mercy, and Hanzo so far. Enjoying the hell out of it.
Official release being so far away makes me a sad MrV.
Then you get used to all the ways to deal with him or flank him and it goes the opposite way and he's viewed as a bit weak.
You can spam turrets down with Pharah rockets from long distance if you can find a good sight line.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Not really considering your Turret stays in the world.
Torbjorn is my fav so far. He is relatively weak 1v1 without prior setup but is a strong back liner. Setting up a turret on a defend will ruin its day if you do it correctly allowing you to hide sometimes and ultimate it up as the whole other team attempts to take it down. I need to get better at offense with him as I typically setup for tiny pushes but you eventually you have to move the turret which is meh.
My favorite thing to do on him is taking out those pesky flankers like reaper with relative ease. I can usually even take down a D.Va if my turret is at least level 2. But easiest at lvl 3. Then I just heal up my turret and move on. The guys who can take down the turret the easiest is Hanzo's Ult plus pot shots at it and Genzo. I have more problems with Reinhart than D.Va usually for the tanks. If you are having problems with a Torborn I can say with experience just get a good sniper on your team that can backline focus well. Most of the games where my KD ratio on him is 1:1 is because of a good widowmaker taking me out and then the rest of the team rushing my turret.
I've done this several times.