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New Wii FPS Control Scheme (long post)
maxfuk
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Maybe a lot of you are like me and are getting tired of the same old "invisible box" (http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2006/06/23/the-fps-conundrum/) FPS games that lazy developers have come up with for the new Wii controller, which was supposed to inspire creativity.
While I believe that this method is awesomely intuitive and should be implemented, it's definitely only half of a complete FPS control scheme. While the Wii-mote is being utilized, developers haven't explored the potential behind the Nunchuck, settling for cop out "shake for ammo" type controls.
Basically, by holding the remote in a certain orientation with respect to the ground, the accelerometers in the Nunchuck can be used like another analog control stick. This idea is currently being explored by Vicious Engine: (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/08/vicious-engine-envisions-creative-wii-fps-controls/).
While the idea in the article is good, I think that we can go even further to truly revolutionize the FPS on the Wii.
If you want to turn to a direction instantly and shoot, why shouldn't you just be able to turn the Nunchuck that direction, then aim the Wiimote and fire, as seen in the above sketch. This way you could turn to whatever angle as fast as you could tilt your wrist. This is equivalent to whipping the gun around and shooting, turning your head while leaving the rest of the body stationary. This would be especially useful for Close Quarters Combat where precision isn't as necessary as response time. Since a button needs to be held down to activate this control feature, the player wouldn't need to constantly worry about the orientation of his Nunchuck.
If the player wants to make a sharp turn in his movement, another button (like the A button, which is frequently used for more locking on or more careful aim) could be tapped to turn the body to where the head is facing. This way a quick about-face could be done by holding the Z button and flipping the Nunchuck to glance over your right shoulder, and then tap the A button to completely turn around.
The Wiimote would still have control of the less-intense camera movement by pointing the Wiimote outside of the "invisible box", which is an indispensable game play mechanic. This would also allow the player to turn his body while using the Nunchuck to look around.
I would love for this control system to be built into an FPS, but unfortunately I'm no game developer. Let me know what you think and what you'd do differently.
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So you're saying the instant vertical looking wouldn't work, or the tilt analog control like that used in the Vicious engine?
This control system would require the invisible box to be mixed in to work correctly. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
The tilt controls are unbelievably sensitive, if youve ever used the mac light saber wii remote program it tells you how much motion its picking up on each access as you wield it around. Seeing this, (the sensitivity) then playing party games that dont use all this information very well makes me extremely frustrated.
edit: ideally, there would be several boxes that had varying sensitivity.
Re-read, please. I said they were making marvelous use of the nunchuck's tilt sensing, not the wiimote. I know the wiimote is sensitive as fuck. :P
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
That's the point of this control scheme, I didn't like the "shake to turn 180" type control , so you should be able to tilt the remote any amount you want to turn that amount of degrees around.
Let's say you're shot at from the left but you don't know where from, then you'd simply hold down the Z button, and rotate your wrist to the left until you see the threat, then stop rotating (i.e. if the target was shooting 77 degrees to your left, you would need to rotate your wrist 77 degrees to the left). Then you could either hold your wrist in that position and aim the Wii-mote to fire, or release the Z button to turn and face the threat.
This control is in addition to the existing "invisible box" control. That control scheme is intuitive and works extremely well, but as I said it's only half of a control system in my opinion.
That is the way the new Metroid is going to work as of right now.
Yeah, I know. You can definitely see it in the more recent trailers.
I was glad to see them go that route.
First, use pointer control with "imaginary box" style turning.
Second, analog nunchuck camera control, ala the Vicious Engine (see article).
Finally, my original control scheme works in support of all that, connecting the camera's orientation with the Nunchuck's orientation directly by pressing the Z button, to look quickly in any direction.
I think that I should make a change to the controls, in that releasing the Z button would make the player's "head" look forward again, while a separate button, let's say the A button, would need to be pressed to turn the players "body" toward the camera. Let me know what you'd do.
On top of this if we need to insist on moving the reticule, that can THEN be done by tilting the nunchuck in the appropriate axes.
Make sense?
[EDIT: Another option could be to use the wii-mote like the standard invisible-box moving reticule setup, then use tilting the nunchuck in the appropriate axes as an additional analog turning system ]
edit:
here's the article
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/08/vicious-engine-envisions-creative-wii-fps-controls/
I guess they're slightly different. But the idea of mapping both movement and look controls to the nunchuk is, uh, I guess 'old hat'
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The difference with the OP is it is suggesting to use the invisible-box pointer controls on top of the nunchuck controls suggested in that link. Although the OP has switched one of the nunchuck axes, so that a "twisting key" motion turns the player horizontally, instead of twisting about a vertical axis.
[EDIT: Actually I think the joystiq article suggests the nunchuck look control would emulate analog motion, while the OP suggests more of a 1to1 movement relationship]
This is not really accurate assessment, since the pressing/releasing of the Z-Button is actually enabling/disabling the players head from looking around freely via the Nunchuck orientation.
It is most analogous to the a flight simulator, where the Hat switch on a joystick is pressed backward to check your six, or slowly rotated in a circle to scan the sky horizontally for a missle.
That is exactly right Klaymen, you hit it right on the nose. Unfortunately, while the twisting key motion is not as intuitive as a rotation about the vertical axis, it is not possible to measure steady state orientation of the remote by rotating in that way.
The Nunchuck measures its steady state position with respect to the earth using gravity. Therefore a slight tilt of the wrist to the left or right can be measured. The problem with the motion of twisting your wrist vertically like you were revving up a motor cycle is that the nunchuck is in the same final position that it started in with respect to the ground. While you could use a filter which integrates the accelerometer values over time in order to yield an estimate of position, the One to One relationship would be lost, and final position error would become considerable.
And that is the technical reason why a twisting key motion is necessary to implement One to One looking with the Nunchuck.
if they put an analog stick on the wii mote this whole thread would be moot.
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The reason why rotating the chuck vertically like a motor cycle handle wouldn't work well is the same reason why fixed reticule aiming like the "pro" setup on Metroid Prime 3 is so difficult to implement. You couldn't just point the remote behind you and expect the aim to be a one to one relationship with that motion. While it is possible to integrate the changes in motion over very small periods of time to estimate where the remote is aiming while pointed away from the screen, without the sensor bar to rely on the aim would probably be very inaccurate. Tilting the remote up and down to aim when pointed away from the screen is still simple to measure since it changes the remotes position with respect to the ground, but small, slow horizontal changes in aim would be next to impossible to measure accurately.
Seriously though, why would you want to introduce such a mind numbingly complex scheme into what's supposed to be a pick up and play console. All you're essentially doing is inventing more and more convoluted ways of trying to emulate the mouse with the limitations of the wiimote and nunchuck.
Yes, we all know that the mouse is the end all beat all FPS control, so why try anything new or different? It's obvious that you didn't attempt to understand anything about the control scheme or how to take full advantage of a controller which can sense nearly any degree of orientation. Thank you for contributing nothing to the topic.
That depends on how bright the future is.
mkds: 128-909-369-415
tetris: 607-254-108-141
metroid: 1460-9641-6245
Step 1: Rotate left hand (nunchuck hand) clockwise to mimic the right turn.
Step 2: Rotate left hand (nunchuck hand) counter-clockwise to mimic the left turn.
You can't turn left!
exactly.
mkds: 128-909-369-415
tetris: 607-254-108-141
metroid: 1460-9641-6245
I'm sorry if you can't accept the simple criticism that your idea is far too complex. And because if this complexity manages to introduce some uncomfortable play styles as well as some huge limitations. Try tilting your left hand 180 degrees clockwise. Simple? Now try doing it 180 degrees counter clockwise. Pretty fucking uncomfortable right?
This really really wouldn't work. once you turn 180* you are starting to face away from the TV, in an FPS you should be able to have not just 360* motion, but consistant 360 motion.
A solution I thought of. Design a game with very limited vertical aiming required, have the nunchuck analogue do the same a anaolgue in goldeneye, forwards/backwards movement, and left/right turning. Aiming on screen is like a light gun, has no mouse look effect, but points where you shoot. Left and right strafe could be done by either one of the shoulder buttons on each wiimote + nunchuck, or by Dpad (might be a bit more awkwards) basically any two buttons.
Read my post a couple down from the top.
mkds: 128-909-369-415
tetris: 607-254-108-141
metroid: 1460-9641-6245
urgh, that sound horrible, actually think about what movement and coordination you would be doing there, it's sounds really unintuitive.
Yeah, I had thought that might be a problem, but anyone should be able to rotate their wrist at least 90 degrees to the left without any difficulty. Besides, a normal person probably wouldn't be able to shoot accurately much more than 90 degrees to their left with the gun in their right hand and keeping their feet stationary (go ahead try it out).
It is true that the arc from 8 oclock to 6 oclock would be difficult for a right handed person to cover with 1-1 instant look controls, so I guess people will just have to turn slightly while looking in order to cover that region.
but as me and Lewie suggested, this negates the "can't turn round" problem. You're using the wiimote to aim a gun on the screen, not aim the camera itself. The rest of the controls, say on the nunchuck, can be used for aiming the 'body' of your character, instead.
Yeah about as unintuitive as using a mouse. Seriously. Use the analog stick in the nunchuck for movement. Aim with wiimote just like a mouse, only to pick up the mouse to recenter, use A. How hard is that?
mkds: 128-909-369-415
tetris: 607-254-108-141
metroid: 1460-9641-6245
Its a cool idea though.