I didn't get the need to undo his marriage (by way of a deal with the literal devil, are you serious?) so he could go back to being a lovable loser. You had the ultimate line's Peter for that, and for the really little kids I'm pretty sure they had Spiderman for kiddies books. I remember reading a good article with JMS talking about how much disdain he had for that storyline and how they went about it.
0
Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
I'm really disappointed with the way they handled tie-ins. There's so much going on behind the scenes in the main Secret Wars series that was deserving of a tie-in showing it, but the tie-ins they did do ended up being self-contained and in the case of a few (Maestro, AoA, etc) were completely retconned by the main series. It's like there was some editorial mandate to cram in all these extra characters (like Captain Marvel and Maestro) with no explanation, and judging from the way a lot of the tie-ins end, it doesn't seem like the writers knew what Hickman was doing or vice versa
I'm really disappointed with the way they handled tie-ins. There's so much going on behind the scenes in the main Secret Wars series that was deserving of a tie-in showing it, but the tie-ins they did do ended up being self-contained and in the case of a few (Maestro, AoA, etc) were completely retconned by the main series. It's like there was some editorial mandate to cram in all these extra characters (like Captain Marvel and Maestro) with no explanation, and judging from the way a lot of the tie-ins end, it doesn't seem like the writers knew what Hickman was doing or vice versa
There's more than one version of those characters in Battleworld. The maestro in in Future's End isn't necessarily the one in the main comic.
Also, Doom flat out rebooting domains is also a thing.
+1
joshgotroDeviled EggThe Land of REAL CHILIRegistered Userregular
It's the Matrix all over. Doom mentions it even when the uprising starts rising.
0
Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
edited November 2015
Yeah that's true, I just got extra confused because then there's the Maestro in the new Contest of Champions as well; I meant that in the main series Hickman retcons the tie-ins by saying it's the Matrix basically and there's been lots of different versions, but I just wish the tie-ins actually tied in to the main Secret Wars series instead of completely ignoring it
Zavian on
0
Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Siege stands out as one that ties in pretty heavily - it's also a great book in its own right. Can't really think of any others that are particularly relevenat.
A few of the others reference the main story towards the end, but that's it.
Yeah that's true, I just got extra confused because then there's the Maestro in the new Contest of Champions as well; I meant that in the main series Hickman retcons the tie-ins by saying it's the Matrix basically and there's been lots of different versions, but I just wish the tie-ins actually tied in to the main Secret Wars series instead of completely ignoring it
I started to read the wiki entry on Secret Wars 2015 and well, yeah, about that. The whole thing really sounds just out of control. I admit some bias as I haven't collected in ages, I remember reading the first Secret Wars, by hitting the local variety store and buying them as they came out and it was fairly good. (I mean, aside from the x-men coming off looking like incompetent dumbasses) This just seems like an impenetrable mish mash nightmare of every storyline from the past 10 years. Did they give up on making comics more accessible to new readers?
Last I heard they had wanted to make their books a little less gritty and a little more heroic and happy after they killed off a school full of kids in Civil War, but now you have Reed, Tony and others killing off entire worlds to save 616-earth?
People have already addressed the whole Illuminati business which I must point out is only one book and Marvel has plenty of books with a happier or more adventurous tone in them.
I want to address the Secret Wars stuff though. Its actually very simple but the wiki is going to make things a lot more complicated. Here's exactly what you need to know coming in to the Secret Wars main book and which the first issue covers anyway.
God-like beings decided they wanted to wipe away the multiverse and start over. They get to the point where there are only two Earths left in all of creation and the Heroes of the world realize they can't stop it. Left with no choice the Heroes we know build an escape pod hoping that if they survive the destruction of everything there might be somewhere to rebuild after. On the other Earth a group of Villains get the same idea. Meanwhile Dr. Doom finds a way to best the God-like beings a rest their powers from them. He pulls chunks of dead Earth together to create a world for himself to rule as God. The two escape Pods Land.
That's it. various parts of the universe are based on or named after various event comics but they are mere background. You don't need to know anything about them to understand whats going on. The tie-in issues are all separate stories you can check out if you like but don't directly effect the plot.
I liked it. Very much in the same vein as the prior Spider-Woman ongoing, I'll be keeping on with it since I find the tone and characters enjoyable. Nothing mindblowing, though.
0
mojojoeoA block off the park, living the dream.Registered Userregular
secret wars finale pushed to 2016. Who saw this coming?
Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
Honestly all the delays don't bother me, I'm just glad that when the thing is over it's all glorious Esad Ribic scribbles and not mostly Esad Ribic, with one issue by some other guy who sucks
+1
mojojoeoA block off the park, living the dream.Registered Userregular
Honestly all the delays don't bother me, I'm just glad that when the thing is over it's all glorious Esad Ribic scribbles and not mostly Esad Ribic, with one issue by some other guy who sucks
I love ribic's art. But would you rather him copy paste from ultimates into this, or have another artist fill in and it come out in a timely manor?
I honestltly dont know the proper answer.
Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
He copy pasted a couple things only, people seem to be exaggerating that. Though I would rather have ribic with a little ctrl c + v, rather than a fill in.
"Ride or Die?" asked Goku
"Ride or Die" confirmed Dominic Toretto, as they took off to find the Dragon Balls in hopes of reviving their friend Sonic
0
mojojoeoA block off the park, living the dream.Registered Userregular
edited December 2015
SW #8 - I don't know if any of this is good.
People fight. People get in dooms face. Doom squishes them like a powerful god. Then something else happens.... and doom is suddenly scared. the reeds do things.
its just a jumble of pretty stuff. maybe I'm wrong....
mojojoeo on
Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
+1
Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Yeeeah, kinda getting disappointed in how things are shaking out. Still love the heck out of how all this kicked off, the Illuminati and the Incursions and everything... but I think it's run out of steam towards the end of Secret Wars proper.
+2
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
No, it's just dragging now, the fight scene. And it's all done with this vague feeling of a little league sports game where everyone has to have their moment instead of flowing more from the story. Like now is Starlord's time, oh, now it's Thanos' time, etc.
Ben dying like that, it lacked the punch it should have had with Susan and Val watching on.
The Starlord/Groot thing, the Groot reveal was nice, but I find it weird that Peter doesn't know who Doom is, he just feels more and more like his MCU/Bendis version, especially him warning Black Swan. But the toothpick was foreshadowed in the first issue (he's putting it in his jacket pocket), I went and checked, so that was nice setting that up.
Thanos, that death came across without any weight because of Cyclops and Ben just a few pages earlier. This is where it's feeling like everyone's mandated to have a moment, even if it's just to kill them off in a page. It works good the first time, by the fifth you're just wondering if that really was the plan for that character.
Maybe the surprise with the final issue will be the climax happens five pages in, and the rest is the Hickman stuff setting everything right for the rebirth of the universes or whatever. Although I do wonder if Hickman will actually deliver a solid ending (which he should do) or it will just be another setup for the next event.
No, it's just dragging now, the fight scene. And it's all done with this vague feeling of a little league sports game where everyone has to have their moment instead of flowing more from the story. Like now is Starlord's time, oh, now it's Thanos' time, etc.
Ben dying like that, it lacked the punch it should have had with Susan and Val watching on.
The Starlord/Groot thing, the Groot reveal was nice, but I find it weird that Peter doesn't know who Doom is, he just feels more and more like his MCU/Bendis version, especially him warning Black Swan. But the toothpick was foreshadowed in the first issue (he's putting it in his jacket pocket), I went and checked, so that was nice setting that up.
Thanos, that death came across without any weight because of Cyclops and Ben just a few pages earlier. This is where it's feeling like everyone's mandated to have a moment, even if it's just to kill them off in a page. It works good the first time, by the fifth you're just wondering if that really was the plan for that character.
Maybe the surprise with the final issue will be the climax happens five pages in, and the rest is the Hickman stuff setting everything right for the rebirth of the universes or whatever. Although I do wonder if Hickman will actually deliver a solid ending (which he should do) or it will just be another setup for the next event.
There it is, you kinda put a pin on it.
Thanos was exactly like phonix. beat for beat. Character moment - job to Doom.
And Ben- his death has even less weight as we know the world keeps turning. We know the mcu goes forward. We see him on the cover of space comics.
By having this drag out past the relaunch the story has no weight. NONE. Deaths matter even less than normal comics deaths because the characters that died are already on the covers of books coming out right now in parallel. We know it gets all tied up in a bow at the end.
The setup was amazing. Years of awesome work. the execution feels off. I will eat my hat if 9 somehow ties it all up in an insanely interesting way. ((my hat is made of bacon so it wont be so bad))
mojojoeo on
Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
+2
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Ultimate End ended today, I quit reading it but does it actually deliver something close to an end?
Ultimate End ended today, I quit reading it but does it actually deliver something close to an end?
Ultimate End spoilers
Not really? Basically Miles swings in and everyone stops fighting, the X-Psychics see what's up and share. Everyone gets pissed at Doom, escape the Thors, and go to fight him.
There's like a page where they are keying up to fight and the next 3 double-page spreads are the laziest copy/paste of hero portraits, where they just make a few disappear until only the Spideys and Iron Mans are left, until a double blank page.
Not really showing anything about how things actually end, sort of sidestepping it like how most of the Battleworld books are; Heroes on the way to the big fight and then nothing
Then in the ending pages we find
Miles is being woken up by his Mom, and Ganke and friends are outside, then he's off webslinging in I guess the new 616.
PSN/Steam - Elderlycrawfish
0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Wow,
they're making Secret Wars be this soft-reboot of specific characters in a way M-Day was, where sure all these mutants were depowered, but none of the important ones you've read about for 40 years so there's basically no impact on the reader.
Miles losing everyone would be a strong reason to be Spidey, since it's more accessible than bringing up Ultimate Peter and the entire other universe when you'd want to likely ignore it moving forward.
I'm really confused...have they come out and said that 'after' secret wars the people actually remember secret wars? Like, spider man seems to have picked up where he left off in some aspects but not all, a mention in daredevil was made that matt made everyone forget who daredevil was, which suggests a 'wish' kind of bullshit at the end of secret wars...tony isnt public enemy number 1, Thor is missing (But i do like the new Thor book so far), etc...The whole secret wars seems more then a little bit of a clusterfuck at this point at least.
Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
0
Mike Danger"Diane..."a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered Userregular
AFAIK what exactly happened at the end of Secret Wars and how many people remember what happened has not been stated.
Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
A certain amount has been given away by SW spin-offs leading up to the conclusion.
We know Doom loses. We know Battleworld is destroyed. We don't know how Doom loses, how Battleworld is destroyed, or how the universe/multiverse comes back afterwards. Seeing exactly how might shed a little light on what new form the universe takes, and what new elements may have been mixed in.
I'm really confused...have they come out and said that 'after' secret wars the people actually remember secret wars? Like, spider man seems to have picked up where he left off in some aspects but not all, a mention in daredevil was made that matt made everyone forget who daredevil was, which suggests a 'wish' kind of bullshit at the end of secret wars...tony isnt public enemy number 1, Thor is missing (But i do like the new Thor book so far), etc...The whole secret wars seems more then a little bit of a clusterfuck at this point at least.
From the Ultimates it seems that nobody who wasn't on the lifeboats remembers anything and they're memories are touch and go. However they all remember enough to know it happened and the universe at large knows something happened if not what.
So i read the first few avengers books. This has kind been my first book reading the new ms marvel....is this attitude she has kinda normal for her? I dunno if i like the idea of a hero that bitches and moans so much that the bad guy wont move to a nice empty lot to start being evil and destroying things.
I want to be in the alternate universe where Secret Wars was just self contained and let Hickman finish his story how he wanted.
...how do we know Hickman isn't finishing his story how he wanted?
the tie ins and delays and issue reordering, gotta screw with anyone's plan.
The tie-ins, as has been noted, almost universally had nothing to do with the events of the main series.
The delays are most likely to ensure consistent art without having to go with a different artist. I doubt any delays negatively impacted Hickmans writing. He's still making the same scripts, they're just taking longer to get made into comics.
The issue reorderings were done because of the story Hickman was crafting, not in spite of it. Issue seven was going to be too large, so they made it two issues so they didn't have to cut anything.
a lot of the delay was probably the result of splitting a couple of the issues into two, no? Wasn't the main title originally just going to be six books?
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
a lot of the delay was probably the result of splitting a couple of the issues into two, no? Wasn't the main title originally just going to be six books?
The delay came from two places. The first is that the very talented artist is very very slow. The second is that they decided to add issue one at the last minute. Originally Secret Wars began on Battleworld with no explanation.
It's mind boggling that these big events are delayed so often
Just get everything done before releasing the first issue
That'd just be a bigger mess than what we have now. Like, Secret Wars, and associated tie-ins, started in May; and the last issue was only finished a few weeks ago. Had they delayed all of Secret Wars until it was finished, they would have had a huge void in their shipping schedules that would have been devastating to the market, and probably financial suicide for Marvel's comic division.
The big thing about delays is that they're unplanned. They wouldn't have been able to go "Secret Wars will get delayed until January of 2016, so we need material to fill in to that point." I don't really see a viable means of doing that without just divorcing events entirely from any current continuity, which kinda defeats the point of having an event in the first place. Also, having all that work in the can, ready to go the moment it's finished, means you'd need to work months, and months ahead of existing scheduling, You'd basically need to stop time for six months to really pull this off. Or double your staff for six months.
+1
Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
It usually comes down to Marvel wanting to use the same artist for the main event series as it reads a lot better in the inevitable trade edition, but then sometimes you also get the writer (in this case Hickman) not plotting things out perfectly and needing another issue to tell the story. I'm actually thankful Marvel is so lenient with their talent as the end result is a lot better than a rushed series with fill-in artists. The delays do suck though, but in the long run it's for the best
Posts
There's more than one version of those characters in Battleworld. The maestro in in Future's End isn't necessarily the one in the main comic.
Also, Doom flat out rebooting domains is also a thing.
A few of the others reference the main story towards the end, but that's it.
Contest of Champions is post secret wars, fyi.
People have already addressed the whole Illuminati business which I must point out is only one book and Marvel has plenty of books with a happier or more adventurous tone in them.
I want to address the Secret Wars stuff though. Its actually very simple but the wiki is going to make things a lot more complicated. Here's exactly what you need to know coming in to the Secret Wars main book and which the first issue covers anyway.
God-like beings decided they wanted to wipe away the multiverse and start over. They get to the point where there are only two Earths left in all of creation and the Heroes of the world realize they can't stop it. Left with no choice the Heroes we know build an escape pod hoping that if they survive the destruction of everything there might be somewhere to rebuild after. On the other Earth a group of Villains get the same idea. Meanwhile Dr. Doom finds a way to best the God-like beings a rest their powers from them. He pulls chunks of dead Earth together to create a world for himself to rule as God. The two escape Pods Land.
That's it. various parts of the universe are based on or named after various event comics but they are mere background. You don't need to know anything about them to understand whats going on. The tie-in issues are all separate stories you can check out if you like but don't directly effect the plot.
Sex & the Cthulhu Mythos
I liked it. Very much in the same vein as the prior Spider-Woman ongoing, I'll be keeping on with it since I find the tone and characters enjoyable. Nothing mindblowing, though.
It's only a 2 week delay but yeah, no one expected it out before Christmas.
I love ribic's art. But would you rather him copy paste from ultimates into this, or have another artist fill in and it come out in a timely manor?
I honestltly dont know the proper answer.
"Ride or Die" confirmed Dominic Toretto, as they took off to find the Dragon Balls in hopes of reviving their friend Sonic
its just a jumble of pretty stuff. maybe I'm wrong....
The Starlord/Groot thing, the Groot reveal was nice, but I find it weird that Peter doesn't know who Doom is, he just feels more and more like his MCU/Bendis version, especially him warning Black Swan. But the toothpick was foreshadowed in the first issue (he's putting it in his jacket pocket), I went and checked, so that was nice setting that up.
Thanos, that death came across without any weight because of Cyclops and Ben just a few pages earlier. This is where it's feeling like everyone's mandated to have a moment, even if it's just to kill them off in a page. It works good the first time, by the fifth you're just wondering if that really was the plan for that character.
Maybe the surprise with the final issue will be the climax happens five pages in, and the rest is the Hickman stuff setting everything right for the rebirth of the universes or whatever. Although I do wonder if Hickman will actually deliver a solid ending (which he should do) or it will just be another setup for the next event.
There it is, you kinda put a pin on it.
And Ben- his death has even less weight as we know the world keeps turning. We know the mcu goes forward. We see him on the cover of space comics.
By having this drag out past the relaunch the story has no weight. NONE. Deaths matter even less than normal comics deaths because the characters that died are already on the covers of books coming out right now in parallel. We know it gets all tied up in a bow at the end.
The setup was amazing. Years of awesome work. the execution feels off. I will eat my hat if 9 somehow ties it all up in an insanely interesting way. ((my hat is made of bacon so it wont be so bad))
Ultimate End spoilers
There's like a page where they are keying up to fight and the next 3 double-page spreads are the laziest copy/paste of hero portraits, where they just make a few disappear until only the Spideys and Iron Mans are left, until a double blank page.
Not really showing anything about how things actually end, sort of sidestepping it like how most of the Battleworld books are; Heroes on the way to the big fight and then nothing
Then in the ending pages we find
they're making Secret Wars be this soft-reboot of specific characters in a way M-Day was, where sure all these mutants were depowered, but none of the important ones you've read about for 40 years so there's basically no impact on the reader.
Miles losing everyone would be a strong reason to be Spidey, since it's more accessible than bringing up Ultimate Peter and the entire other universe when you'd want to likely ignore it moving forward.
From the Ultimates it seems that nobody who wasn't on the lifeboats remembers anything and they're memories are touch and go. However they all remember enough to know it happened and the universe at large knows something happened if not what.
...how do we know Hickman isn't finishing his story how he wanted?
the tie ins and delays and issue reordering, gotta screw with anyone's plan.
The tie-ins, as has been noted, almost universally had nothing to do with the events of the main series.
The delays are most likely to ensure consistent art without having to go with a different artist. I doubt any delays negatively impacted Hickmans writing. He's still making the same scripts, they're just taking longer to get made into comics.
The issue reorderings were done because of the story Hickman was crafting, not in spite of it. Issue seven was going to be too large, so they made it two issues so they didn't have to cut anything.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
The delay came from two places. The first is that the very talented artist is very very slow. The second is that they decided to add issue one at the last minute. Originally Secret Wars began on Battleworld with no explanation.
Just get everything done before releasing the first issue
Marvel had a good track record with getting events out on time since Siege. Secret Invasion only had a two week delay on the last issue as well.
That'd just be a bigger mess than what we have now. Like, Secret Wars, and associated tie-ins, started in May; and the last issue was only finished a few weeks ago. Had they delayed all of Secret Wars until it was finished, they would have had a huge void in their shipping schedules that would have been devastating to the market, and probably financial suicide for Marvel's comic division.
The big thing about delays is that they're unplanned. They wouldn't have been able to go "Secret Wars will get delayed until January of 2016, so we need material to fill in to that point." I don't really see a viable means of doing that without just divorcing events entirely from any current continuity, which kinda defeats the point of having an event in the first place. Also, having all that work in the can, ready to go the moment it's finished, means you'd need to work months, and months ahead of existing scheduling, You'd basically need to stop time for six months to really pull this off. Or double your staff for six months.