...isn't even the things you listed (though, I don't like them). You've been going through the game killing every one of his followers you meet, but you decide to arrest Joseph Seed instead. Why? Also, there are three people with you who have been traumatized by Eden's Gate, but they're also cool with Joseph being arrested. If there was at least an argument about what to do with him, I'd be happier with the ending.
@Big Dookie Day-umn dude. We're like optimistic nihilist peas in a pod, you and I. :P
I've being thinking a lot of the same. We do what we can in the time we have, 'gods' and 'prophets' be damned.
Although for me:
Getting locked in a bunker with Seed, with no way to shut him up, would be a special kind of torturous hell. :P
Indeed! I have hope for resolution on that though.
Since all the Far Cry games are loosely connected and take place in the same timeline (particularly 3/4/Primal/5, and Longinus from FC4 seems to imply a connection to FC2 as well), I'm hoping that Far Cry 6 will end up being a direct continuation of both this game, and shows the nuclear war affected the previous protagonists. My hope is that FC6 begins soon after the ending of 5, with the deputy breaking out of her cuffs and murdering Seed the first chance she gets. Then she spends years holed up in the bunker waiting for the fallout to pass, and the game begins in earnest when she emerges. At the same time, we get background on how Jason Brody and Ajay Ghale survived the war, and the three of them somehow end up in the same area of the world, and our first choice is to pick which protagonist we want to play as.
It probably doesn't make sense and would be way too ambitious to pull off, but boy would that be fun. Either way though, my head canon assumes that the deputy breaks loose and murders Joseph Seed mere minutes after the fade to black at the end of FC5. That will always be the true ending to me.
took place in the post apocalyptic future of 2007.
I like to imagine that Rex Power Colt bursts in there and snaps the handcuffs with his power-glove, while a blood dragon chows down on Seed. Then Rex and The Deputy deliver justice and freedom to the post-apocalyptic landscape.
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
took place in the post apocalyptic future of 2007.
I like to imagine that Rex Power Colt bursts in there and snaps the handcuffs with his power-glove, while a blood dragon chows down on Seed. Then Rex and The Deputy deliver justice and freedom to the post-apocalyptic landscape.
*Renegade*
"This is for Boomer, you son of a bitch."
Donnicton on
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Okay, I'll try to stay as brief as possible, but here are my thoughts on why FC5 actually has a really good ending.
(Long thoughts on end-game spoilers below)
Many have interpreted the ending to mean that nothing you do in the game matters, and that we are supposed to take away from the game that Joseph Seed was actually right all along. While these are both technically correct statements, neither is actually right. Let's break each one down.
Nothing you do in the game matters because everyone dies in nuclear holocaust anyway.
Far Cry 5 will always end in nuclear war and devastation, regardless of which ending you go with. Even the secret ending and the "walk away" ending can be assumed to end there as well, we just don't quite get there. While I admit that the indications of this coming are too sparse in the game, the hints are there, that this is an unstoppable train rolling down the track and is going to smash into us no matter what. Nothing we can do in the game can change the fact that most of the people we save, befriend, and sacrifice for will end up dead.
And this is exactly how life has always played out for as long as life has existed.
We are all going to die one day. That's a verifiable fact until someone can provide a good counter-example. Every living thing eventually dies, and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. Not only will you die, but everyone you love will die, and all that will be left are a few memories. Until eventually those left after you die as well, and even those memories fade away, until nothing at all is left of you. As if you never existed in the first place. In the face of this knowledge, the reality is that nothing that any of us do will ever really matter in the grand scheme of things. Even those lucky enough to be recorded in the history books will eventually be forgotten as the human race dies out or as the sun consumes the solar system or in the eventual heat-death of the universe. Nothing we do matters in the long run.
Except that isn't true, is it? What we do does matter, because it matters to us, and it matters right now while we are here. It's the reason we continue to struggle forward in the face of overwhelming insignificance of our short lives. In Far Cry 5 nothing you can do through the course of the game will ultimately change the fact that they're all going to die, just like nothing we do in our life changes the same fact about our own lives. But for a short moment, you make their lives better. You allow a pilot to enjoy his life with his wife and new daughter in peace for a few days, free from the oppressive cult trying to take advantage of him. You rescue a celebrity bear from being killed, allowing him a final romp to enjoy himself. You provide closure to a woman who has been mentally and physically abused as she watches you take vengeance on the man who horrifically murdered her loved ones. These stories play out again and again over the course of the game as you beat back the cult through sheer force of will, returning some sense of normalcy to a once proud and free county. Why though? You know you're going to die along with the rest of these people eventually, if not minutes or days, then maybe months or decades. Why bother?
The point is not, "Nothing you do in this game matters." The point is, "Nothing you do in this game matters, but you do it anyway because it's the right thing to do."
Joseph Seed was actually right all along.
Yup, that's true. And my response to that is, so what? Based on the state of the world in the game (and not a huge stretch from the actual state of the world now), this apocalypse was coming whether Seed and his cult were there or not. He can claim that he was given divine signs of its coming, but so have hundreds of other cult leaders over the centuries. Eventually one of them might turn out to be right. In this case, Seed interpreted world events well enough to see what was coming and prepare for it. He's not a prophet, and he doesn't talk to God, but he does at least know how to prepare for the worst.
So sure, that makes him correct. But it doesn't make him right.
Obviously the way in which he prepared for the collapse was awful in every way possible. Murdering people, involuntarily forcing them into a doomsday cult, and using drugs, fear, and eschatological rhetoric to ensure compliance is completely immoral. You as the deputy are right to fight against it, and I can't entertain any serious argument that tries to justify not fighting him as the right thing to do. Even if the claim is that Joseph's tactics, left unchecked, would maximize the number of survivors when the end does come, what is the price they have to pay in order to do so? And as we already established, they're all going to die eventually anyway. All of us are constantly fighting for just a little more time. That's all life is, scratching and clawing to get just a few more minutes before we succumb to that unending darkness. But sometimes the price we pay to earn that tiny bit of extra time isn't worth it. This is one of those cases. I would wager most of the people in Hope County, if given the option, would prefer to die in a nuclear apocalypse as free people than to ride it out for a few more years in fear under a madman's oppression. I know I would.
So then what is the message of this game?
To me, it's pretty simple. While you're still here, while you still have the opportunity, you do what's right. Even though nothing you do will ultimately matter, you do it anyway. There's actually a clarity and optimism to that that I haven't seen from any of the other Far Cry games, or many other games in general. The Deputy sees what's happening, and even in the end when you're locked in a bunker with a madman, nuclear bombs still literally exploding in the world above, you can look back on what you did with a clear conscience. You brought hope to the people of Hope County. Even if it was only for a little while. But in the grand scheme of things, a little while is all we're ever going to get.
That ignores the other INCREDIBLY BIG point that ruins it all.
It's not the message or lack thereof that bothers a big set of people. It's not that the "bad guy wins". This has been said plenty of times in here. It's that you as the main character sit there and just listen to him spout his psycho nonsense without speaking out against it. It's the reason that leads some people to feel that there is a statement being made because they went with a silent protagonist while telling a story that a silent protagonist does not work for. If there was some show of the MC actually pointing out why he was wrong and making a show of the fact the fact that what he's preaching actually doesn't make sense most of the issues go away and it can work out as you stated above. But as is they dropped the ball majorly.
The game blames you for everything that happened.
It tries to guilt you for trying to stop psychopatic murderers, worse, it punishes you be giving you worse and worse ending more you try to do good.
The story is poorly told, relies on plot convenience and magic drug, and has boring villains.
And, at the end, you are not even allowed to shoot this child murderer, torturer, psychopathic brain washer and mass murderer.
The "everyone dies in the end" is a stupid message, because even if we die, others continue to live, and while our actions may not matter to the greater universe, it matters to us, here and now.
And i don't even think it was the message, you can force it out of the story, as you can force many other messages if you really want to.
No, the story is not good, it is not clever, it fails to even be dumb in an entertaining way.
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
Okay, I'll try to stay as brief as possible, but here are my thoughts on why FC5 actually has a really good ending.
(Long thoughts on end-game spoilers below)
Many have interpreted the ending to mean that nothing you do in the game matters, and that we are supposed to take away from the game that Joseph Seed was actually right all along. While these are both technically correct statements, neither is actually right. Let's break each one down.
Nothing you do in the game matters because everyone dies in nuclear holocaust anyway.
Far Cry 5 will always end in nuclear war and devastation, regardless of which ending you go with. Even the secret ending and the "walk away" ending can be assumed to end there as well, we just don't quite get there. While I admit that the indications of this coming are too sparse in the game, the hints are there, that this is an unstoppable train rolling down the track and is going to smash into us no matter what. Nothing we can do in the game can change the fact that most of the people we save, befriend, and sacrifice for will end up dead.
And this is exactly how life has always played out for as long as life has existed.
We are all going to die one day. That's a verifiable fact until someone can provide a good counter-example. Every living thing eventually dies, and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. Not only will you die, but everyone you love will die, and all that will be left are a few memories. Until eventually those left after you die as well, and even those memories fade away, until nothing at all is left of you. As if you never existed in the first place. In the face of this knowledge, the reality is that nothing that any of us do will ever really matter in the grand scheme of things. Even those lucky enough to be recorded in the history books will eventually be forgotten as the human race dies out or as the sun consumes the solar system or in the eventual heat-death of the universe. Nothing we do matters in the long run.
Except that isn't true, is it? What we do does matter, because it matters to us, and it matters right now while we are here. It's the reason we continue to struggle forward in the face of overwhelming insignificance of our short lives. In Far Cry 5 nothing you can do through the course of the game will ultimately change the fact that they're all going to die, just like nothing we do in our life changes the same fact about our own lives. But for a short moment, you make their lives better. You allow a pilot to enjoy his life with his wife and new daughter in peace for a few days, free from the oppressive cult trying to take advantage of him. You rescue a celebrity bear from being killed, allowing him a final romp to enjoy himself. You provide closure to a woman who has been mentally and physically abused as she watches you take vengeance on the man who horrifically murdered her loved ones. These stories play out again and again over the course of the game as you beat back the cult through sheer force of will, returning some sense of normalcy to a once proud and free county. Why though? You know you're going to die along with the rest of these people eventually, if not minutes or days, then maybe months or decades. Why bother?
The point is not, "Nothing you do in this game matters." The point is, "Nothing you do in this game matters, but you do it anyway because it's the right thing to do."
Joseph Seed was actually right all along.
Yup, that's true. And my response to that is, so what? Based on the state of the world in the game (and not a huge stretch from the actual state of the world now), this apocalypse was coming whether Seed and his cult were there or not. He can claim that he was given divine signs of its coming, but so have hundreds of other cult leaders over the centuries. Eventually one of them might turn out to be right. In this case, Seed interpreted world events well enough to see what was coming and prepare for it. He's not a prophet, and he doesn't talk to God, but he does at least know how to prepare for the worst.
So sure, that makes him correct. But it doesn't make him right.
Obviously the way in which he prepared for the collapse was awful in every way possible. Murdering people, involuntarily forcing them into a doomsday cult, and using drugs, fear, and eschatological rhetoric to ensure compliance is completely immoral. You as the deputy are right to fight against it, and I can't entertain any serious argument that tries to justify not fighting him as the right thing to do. Even if the claim is that Joseph's tactics, left unchecked, would maximize the number of survivors when the end does come, what is the price they have to pay in order to do so? And as we already established, they're all going to die eventually anyway. All of us are constantly fighting for just a little more time. That's all life is, scratching and clawing to get just a few more minutes before we succumb to that unending darkness. But sometimes the price we pay to earn that tiny bit of extra time isn't worth it. This is one of those cases. I would wager most of the people in Hope County, if given the option, would prefer to die in a nuclear apocalypse as free people than to ride it out for a few more years in fear under a madman's oppression. I know I would.
So then what is the message of this game?
To me, it's pretty simple. While you're still here, while you still have the opportunity, you do what's right. Even though nothing you do will ultimately matter, you do it anyway. There's actually a clarity and optimism to that that I haven't seen from any of the other Far Cry games, or many other games in general. The Deputy sees what's happening, and even in the end when you're locked in a bunker with a madman, nuclear bombs still literally exploding in the world above, you can look back on what you did with a clear conscience. You brought hope to the people of Hope County. Even if it was only for a little while. But in the grand scheme of things, a little while is all we're ever going to get.
That ignores the other INCREDIBLY BIG point that ruins it all.
It's not the message or lack thereof that bothers a big set of people. It's not that the "bad guy wins". This has been said plenty of times in here. It's that you as the main character sit there and just listen to him spout his psycho nonsense without speaking out against it. It's the reason that leads some people to feel that there is a statement being made because they went with a silent protagonist while telling a story that a silent protagonist does not work for. If there was some show of the MC actually pointing out why he was wrong and making a show of the fact the fact that what he's preaching actually doesn't make sense most of the issues go away and it can work out as you stated above. But as is they dropped the ball majorly.
Counterpoint:
That doesn't ruin anything. You as the deputy pretty much single-handedly dismantle the cult and oppose them at every turn. You don’t need extraneous dialogue to say this, it’s shown in your actions throughout the game. Would the deputy monologing back at the bad guys about how evil they are make any more of a statement than fucking up their infrastructure at every level?
Seriously, I don’t understand how people can see the lack of dialogue on the part of the deputy to be some kind of tacit endorsement of Seed’s message. That’s reading something that just isn’t there. The deputy doesn’t speak with words, s/he speaks with action.
The game blames you for everything that happened.
It tries to guilt you for trying to stop psychopatic murderers, worse, it punishes you be giving you worse and worse ending more you try to do good.
The story is poorly told, relies on plot convenience and magic drug, and has boring villains.
And, at the end, you are not even allowed to shoot this child murderer, torturer, psychopathic brain washer and mass murderer.
The "everyone dies in the end" is a stupid message, because even if we die, others continue to live, and while our actions may not matter to the greater universe, it matters to us, here and now.
And i don't even think it was the message, you can force it out of the story, as you can force many other messages if you really want to.
No, the story is not good, it is not clever, it fails to even be dumb in an entertaining way.
I actually already addressed this in my previous breakdown.
I even said very specifically that DESPITE our actions not mattering in the long run, that they are still important to us in this moment, and do have an impact on others. That's the whole message of positive nihilism, that while it's true nothing ultimately matters in a grand holistic view, it still matters to us while we're here, and that's why we keep going. To me, that's the whole message of this game, that even when there is no way to "win" or have a happy ending, you still fight like a motherfucker because that's what a moral person does.
To the point that the story is sometimes poorly told... eh, I don't totally disagree with you there. There are some mechanics they could have worked out better, specifically the sections where the baddies find you and bring you in. From a broad perspective though, I really appreciate what they attempted to pull off, and I feel like they mostly succeeded. As I said, even if many people had issues with it, it definitely worked for me.
Okay, I'll try to stay as brief as possible, but here are my thoughts on why FC5 actually has a really good ending.
(Long thoughts on end-game spoilers below)
Many have interpreted the ending to mean that nothing you do in the game matters, and that we are supposed to take away from the game that Joseph Seed was actually right all along. While these are both technically correct statements, neither is actually right. Let's break each one down.
Nothing you do in the game matters because everyone dies in nuclear holocaust anyway.
Far Cry 5 will always end in nuclear war and devastation, regardless of which ending you go with. Even the secret ending and the "walk away" ending can be assumed to end there as well, we just don't quite get there. While I admit that the indications of this coming are too sparse in the game, the hints are there, that this is an unstoppable train rolling down the track and is going to smash into us no matter what. Nothing we can do in the game can change the fact that most of the people we save, befriend, and sacrifice for will end up dead.
And this is exactly how life has always played out for as long as life has existed.
We are all going to die one day. That's a verifiable fact until someone can provide a good counter-example. Every living thing eventually dies, and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. Not only will you die, but everyone you love will die, and all that will be left are a few memories. Until eventually those left after you die as well, and even those memories fade away, until nothing at all is left of you. As if you never existed in the first place. In the face of this knowledge, the reality is that nothing that any of us do will ever really matter in the grand scheme of things. Even those lucky enough to be recorded in the history books will eventually be forgotten as the human race dies out or as the sun consumes the solar system or in the eventual heat-death of the universe. Nothing we do matters in the long run.
Except that isn't true, is it? What we do does matter, because it matters to us, and it matters right now while we are here. It's the reason we continue to struggle forward in the face of overwhelming insignificance of our short lives. In Far Cry 5 nothing you can do through the course of the game will ultimately change the fact that they're all going to die, just like nothing we do in our life changes the same fact about our own lives. But for a short moment, you make their lives better. You allow a pilot to enjoy his life with his wife and new daughter in peace for a few days, free from the oppressive cult trying to take advantage of him. You rescue a celebrity bear from being killed, allowing him a final romp to enjoy himself. You provide closure to a woman who has been mentally and physically abused as she watches you take vengeance on the man who horrifically murdered her loved ones. These stories play out again and again over the course of the game as you beat back the cult through sheer force of will, returning some sense of normalcy to a once proud and free county. Why though? You know you're going to die along with the rest of these people eventually, if not minutes or days, then maybe months or decades. Why bother?
The point is not, "Nothing you do in this game matters." The point is, "Nothing you do in this game matters, but you do it anyway because it's the right thing to do."
Joseph Seed was actually right all along.
Yup, that's true. And my response to that is, so what? Based on the state of the world in the game (and not a huge stretch from the actual state of the world now), this apocalypse was coming whether Seed and his cult were there or not. He can claim that he was given divine signs of its coming, but so have hundreds of other cult leaders over the centuries. Eventually one of them might turn out to be right. In this case, Seed interpreted world events well enough to see what was coming and prepare for it. He's not a prophet, and he doesn't talk to God, but he does at least know how to prepare for the worst.
So sure, that makes him correct. But it doesn't make him right.
Obviously the way in which he prepared for the collapse was awful in every way possible. Murdering people, involuntarily forcing them into a doomsday cult, and using drugs, fear, and eschatological rhetoric to ensure compliance is completely immoral. You as the deputy are right to fight against it, and I can't entertain any serious argument that tries to justify not fighting him as the right thing to do. Even if the claim is that Joseph's tactics, left unchecked, would maximize the number of survivors when the end does come, what is the price they have to pay in order to do so? And as we already established, they're all going to die eventually anyway. All of us are constantly fighting for just a little more time. That's all life is, scratching and clawing to get just a few more minutes before we succumb to that unending darkness. But sometimes the price we pay to earn that tiny bit of extra time isn't worth it. This is one of those cases. I would wager most of the people in Hope County, if given the option, would prefer to die in a nuclear apocalypse as free people than to ride it out for a few more years in fear under a madman's oppression. I know I would.
So then what is the message of this game?
To me, it's pretty simple. While you're still here, while you still have the opportunity, you do what's right. Even though nothing you do will ultimately matter, you do it anyway. There's actually a clarity and optimism to that that I haven't seen from any of the other Far Cry games, or many other games in general. The Deputy sees what's happening, and even in the end when you're locked in a bunker with a madman, nuclear bombs still literally exploding in the world above, you can look back on what you did with a clear conscience. You brought hope to the people of Hope County. Even if it was only for a little while. But in the grand scheme of things, a little while is all we're ever going to get.
That ignores the other INCREDIBLY BIG point that ruins it all.
It's not the message or lack thereof that bothers a big set of people. It's not that the "bad guy wins". This has been said plenty of times in here. It's that you as the main character sit there and just listen to him spout his psycho nonsense without speaking out against it. It's the reason that leads some people to feel that there is a statement being made because they went with a silent protagonist while telling a story that a silent protagonist does not work for. If there was some show of the MC actually pointing out why he was wrong and making a show of the fact the fact that what he's preaching actually doesn't make sense most of the issues go away and it can work out as you stated above. But as is they dropped the ball majorly.
Counterpoint:
That doesn't ruin anything. You as the deputy pretty much single-handedly dismantle the cult and oppose them at every turn. You don’t need extraneous dialogue to say this, it’s shown in your actions throughout the game. Would the deputy monologing back at the bad guys about how evil they are make any more of a statement than fucking up their infrastructure at every level?
Seriously, I don’t understand how people can see the lack of dialogue on the part of the deputy to be some kind of tacit endorsement of Seed’s message. That’s reading something that just isn’t there. The deputy doesn’t speak with words, s/he speaks with action.
Largely, the tacit "endorsement", comes from the fact that Joseph Seed is untouchable.
You can't shoot him, you can't stop him, and eventually the game pulls a nuke out of it's ass to prove him right.
Yes, i know there are radio transmissions (that almost nobody seems to hear), and other small snippets about how things are happening outside Hope county, but largely it is nothing that has not been happening, for decades.
The final act of the story, is to have Joseph Seed, vindicated, righteous, preaching at you of how you and him are going to go into the future.
And how you are not his child, family, to replace the famile that was taken from him.
No, the story quite clearly wants us to think that we were wrong to oppose Joseph, and that Joseph was, at some level, justified in his actions, and that our violence used in opposing him makes us just as bad, if not worse.
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
Okay, I'll try to stay as brief as possible, but here are my thoughts on why FC5 actually has a really good ending.
(Long thoughts on end-game spoilers below)
Many have interpreted the ending to mean that nothing you do in the game matters, and that we are supposed to take away from the game that Joseph Seed was actually right all along. While these are both technically correct statements, neither is actually right. Let's break each one down.
Nothing you do in the game matters because everyone dies in nuclear holocaust anyway.
Far Cry 5 will always end in nuclear war and devastation, regardless of which ending you go with. Even the secret ending and the "walk away" ending can be assumed to end there as well, we just don't quite get there. While I admit that the indications of this coming are too sparse in the game, the hints are there, that this is an unstoppable train rolling down the track and is going to smash into us no matter what. Nothing we can do in the game can change the fact that most of the people we save, befriend, and sacrifice for will end up dead.
And this is exactly how life has always played out for as long as life has existed.
We are all going to die one day. That's a verifiable fact until someone can provide a good counter-example. Every living thing eventually dies, and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. Not only will you die, but everyone you love will die, and all that will be left are a few memories. Until eventually those left after you die as well, and even those memories fade away, until nothing at all is left of you. As if you never existed in the first place. In the face of this knowledge, the reality is that nothing that any of us do will ever really matter in the grand scheme of things. Even those lucky enough to be recorded in the history books will eventually be forgotten as the human race dies out or as the sun consumes the solar system or in the eventual heat-death of the universe. Nothing we do matters in the long run.
Except that isn't true, is it? What we do does matter, because it matters to us, and it matters right now while we are here. It's the reason we continue to struggle forward in the face of overwhelming insignificance of our short lives. In Far Cry 5 nothing you can do through the course of the game will ultimately change the fact that they're all going to die, just like nothing we do in our life changes the same fact about our own lives. But for a short moment, you make their lives better. You allow a pilot to enjoy his life with his wife and new daughter in peace for a few days, free from the oppressive cult trying to take advantage of him. You rescue a celebrity bear from being killed, allowing him a final romp to enjoy himself. You provide closure to a woman who has been mentally and physically abused as she watches you take vengeance on the man who horrifically murdered her loved ones. These stories play out again and again over the course of the game as you beat back the cult through sheer force of will, returning some sense of normalcy to a once proud and free county. Why though? You know you're going to die along with the rest of these people eventually, if not minutes or days, then maybe months or decades. Why bother?
The point is not, "Nothing you do in this game matters." The point is, "Nothing you do in this game matters, but you do it anyway because it's the right thing to do."
Joseph Seed was actually right all along.
Yup, that's true. And my response to that is, so what? Based on the state of the world in the game (and not a huge stretch from the actual state of the world now), this apocalypse was coming whether Seed and his cult were there or not. He can claim that he was given divine signs of its coming, but so have hundreds of other cult leaders over the centuries. Eventually one of them might turn out to be right. In this case, Seed interpreted world events well enough to see what was coming and prepare for it. He's not a prophet, and he doesn't talk to God, but he does at least know how to prepare for the worst.
So sure, that makes him correct. But it doesn't make him right.
Obviously the way in which he prepared for the collapse was awful in every way possible. Murdering people, involuntarily forcing them into a doomsday cult, and using drugs, fear, and eschatological rhetoric to ensure compliance is completely immoral. You as the deputy are right to fight against it, and I can't entertain any serious argument that tries to justify not fighting him as the right thing to do. Even if the claim is that Joseph's tactics, left unchecked, would maximize the number of survivors when the end does come, what is the price they have to pay in order to do so? And as we already established, they're all going to die eventually anyway. All of us are constantly fighting for just a little more time. That's all life is, scratching and clawing to get just a few more minutes before we succumb to that unending darkness. But sometimes the price we pay to earn that tiny bit of extra time isn't worth it. This is one of those cases. I would wager most of the people in Hope County, if given the option, would prefer to die in a nuclear apocalypse as free people than to ride it out for a few more years in fear under a madman's oppression. I know I would.
So then what is the message of this game?
To me, it's pretty simple. While you're still here, while you still have the opportunity, you do what's right. Even though nothing you do will ultimately matter, you do it anyway. There's actually a clarity and optimism to that that I haven't seen from any of the other Far Cry games, or many other games in general. The Deputy sees what's happening, and even in the end when you're locked in a bunker with a madman, nuclear bombs still literally exploding in the world above, you can look back on what you did with a clear conscience. You brought hope to the people of Hope County. Even if it was only for a little while. But in the grand scheme of things, a little while is all we're ever going to get.
That ignores the other INCREDIBLY BIG point that ruins it all.
It's not the message or lack thereof that bothers a big set of people. It's not that the "bad guy wins". This has been said plenty of times in here. It's that you as the main character sit there and just listen to him spout his psycho nonsense without speaking out against it. It's the reason that leads some people to feel that there is a statement being made because they went with a silent protagonist while telling a story that a silent protagonist does not work for. If there was some show of the MC actually pointing out why he was wrong and making a show of the fact the fact that what he's preaching actually doesn't make sense most of the issues go away and it can work out as you stated above. But as is they dropped the ball majorly.
Counterpoint:
That doesn't ruin anything. You as the deputy pretty much single-handedly dismantle the cult and oppose them at every turn. You don’t need extraneous dialogue to say this, it’s shown in your actions throughout the game. Would the deputy monologing back at the bad guys about how evil they are make any more of a statement than fucking up their infrastructure at every level?
Seriously, I don’t understand how people can see the lack of dialogue on the part of the deputy to be some kind of tacit endorsement of Seed’s message. That’s reading something that just isn’t there. The deputy doesn’t speak with words, s/he speaks with action.
Largely, the tacit "endorsement", comes from the fact that Joseph Seed is untouchable.
You can't shoot him, you can't stop him, and eventually the game pulls a nuke out of it's ass to prove him right.
Yes, i know there are radio transmissions (that almost nobody seems to hear), and other small snippets about how things are happening outside Hope county, but largely it is nothing that has not been happening, for decades.
The final act of the story, is to have Joseph Seed, vindicated, righteous, preaching at you of how you and him are going to go into the future.
And how you are not his child, family, to replace the famile that was taken from him.
No, the story quite clearly wants us to think that we were wrong to oppose Joseph, and that Joseph was, at some level, justified in his actions, and that our violence used in opposing him makes us just as bad, if not worse.
We're probably not going to come to an agreement on this point. You think I'm glossing over the true intentions of the writers, and I think you're just flat out wrong on how you're interpreting the story. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. And by "we" I mean most of the people in this thread, because I realize my view is probably not the popular one.
Okay, I'll try to stay as brief as possible, but here are my thoughts on why FC5 actually has a really good ending.
(Long thoughts on end-game spoilers below)
Many have interpreted the ending to mean that nothing you do in the game matters, and that we are supposed to take away from the game that Joseph Seed was actually right all along. While these are both technically correct statements, neither is actually right. Let's break each one down.
Nothing you do in the game matters because everyone dies in nuclear holocaust anyway.
Far Cry 5 will always end in nuclear war and devastation, regardless of which ending you go with. Even the secret ending and the "walk away" ending can be assumed to end there as well, we just don't quite get there. While I admit that the indications of this coming are too sparse in the game, the hints are there, that this is an unstoppable train rolling down the track and is going to smash into us no matter what. Nothing we can do in the game can change the fact that most of the people we save, befriend, and sacrifice for will end up dead.
And this is exactly how life has always played out for as long as life has existed.
We are all going to die one day. That's a verifiable fact until someone can provide a good counter-example. Every living thing eventually dies, and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. Not only will you die, but everyone you love will die, and all that will be left are a few memories. Until eventually those left after you die as well, and even those memories fade away, until nothing at all is left of you. As if you never existed in the first place. In the face of this knowledge, the reality is that nothing that any of us do will ever really matter in the grand scheme of things. Even those lucky enough to be recorded in the history books will eventually be forgotten as the human race dies out or as the sun consumes the solar system or in the eventual heat-death of the universe. Nothing we do matters in the long run.
Except that isn't true, is it? What we do does matter, because it matters to us, and it matters right now while we are here. It's the reason we continue to struggle forward in the face of overwhelming insignificance of our short lives. In Far Cry 5 nothing you can do through the course of the game will ultimately change the fact that they're all going to die, just like nothing we do in our life changes the same fact about our own lives. But for a short moment, you make their lives better. You allow a pilot to enjoy his life with his wife and new daughter in peace for a few days, free from the oppressive cult trying to take advantage of him. You rescue a celebrity bear from being killed, allowing him a final romp to enjoy himself. You provide closure to a woman who has been mentally and physically abused as she watches you take vengeance on the man who horrifically murdered her loved ones. These stories play out again and again over the course of the game as you beat back the cult through sheer force of will, returning some sense of normalcy to a once proud and free county. Why though? You know you're going to die along with the rest of these people eventually, if not minutes or days, then maybe months or decades. Why bother?
The point is not, "Nothing you do in this game matters." The point is, "Nothing you do in this game matters, but you do it anyway because it's the right thing to do."
Joseph Seed was actually right all along.
Yup, that's true. And my response to that is, so what? Based on the state of the world in the game (and not a huge stretch from the actual state of the world now), this apocalypse was coming whether Seed and his cult were there or not. He can claim that he was given divine signs of its coming, but so have hundreds of other cult leaders over the centuries. Eventually one of them might turn out to be right. In this case, Seed interpreted world events well enough to see what was coming and prepare for it. He's not a prophet, and he doesn't talk to God, but he does at least know how to prepare for the worst.
So sure, that makes him correct. But it doesn't make him right.
Obviously the way in which he prepared for the collapse was awful in every way possible. Murdering people, involuntarily forcing them into a doomsday cult, and using drugs, fear, and eschatological rhetoric to ensure compliance is completely immoral. You as the deputy are right to fight against it, and I can't entertain any serious argument that tries to justify not fighting him as the right thing to do. Even if the claim is that Joseph's tactics, left unchecked, would maximize the number of survivors when the end does come, what is the price they have to pay in order to do so? And as we already established, they're all going to die eventually anyway. All of us are constantly fighting for just a little more time. That's all life is, scratching and clawing to get just a few more minutes before we succumb to that unending darkness. But sometimes the price we pay to earn that tiny bit of extra time isn't worth it. This is one of those cases. I would wager most of the people in Hope County, if given the option, would prefer to die in a nuclear apocalypse as free people than to ride it out for a few more years in fear under a madman's oppression. I know I would.
So then what is the message of this game?
To me, it's pretty simple. While you're still here, while you still have the opportunity, you do what's right. Even though nothing you do will ultimately matter, you do it anyway. There's actually a clarity and optimism to that that I haven't seen from any of the other Far Cry games, or many other games in general. The Deputy sees what's happening, and even in the end when you're locked in a bunker with a madman, nuclear bombs still literally exploding in the world above, you can look back on what you did with a clear conscience. You brought hope to the people of Hope County. Even if it was only for a little while. But in the grand scheme of things, a little while is all we're ever going to get.
That ignores the other INCREDIBLY BIG point that ruins it all.
It's not the message or lack thereof that bothers a big set of people. It's not that the "bad guy wins". This has been said plenty of times in here. It's that you as the main character sit there and just listen to him spout his psycho nonsense without speaking out against it. It's the reason that leads some people to feel that there is a statement being made because they went with a silent protagonist while telling a story that a silent protagonist does not work for. If there was some show of the MC actually pointing out why he was wrong and making a show of the fact the fact that what he's preaching actually doesn't make sense most of the issues go away and it can work out as you stated above. But as is they dropped the ball majorly.
Counterpoint:
That doesn't ruin anything. You as the deputy pretty much single-handedly dismantle the cult and oppose them at every turn. You don’t need extraneous dialogue to say this, it’s shown in your actions throughout the game. Would the deputy monologing back at the bad guys about how evil they are make any more of a statement than fucking up their infrastructure at every level?
Seriously, I don’t understand how people can see the lack of dialogue on the part of the deputy to be some kind of tacit endorsement of Seed’s message. That’s reading something that just isn’t there. The deputy doesn’t speak with words, s/he speaks with action.
1st: If that were true there wouldn't be so many people getting the wrong message from it. The very fact that it is such a talked about thing shows that this just isn't true. Again, I do not think the message was in support of the crazy man. My issue lies with it being a terrible way of writing such a story, and this confusion is a side effect of that.
2nd: If there is no writing or story reason for a silent protagonist then it shouldn't be there. The only reason they did it in this game is because of the multi-player stuff that they wanted to connect to the main game. It has nothing to do with writing or story telling. It was not there to add anything to the single player experience. And thus you get a scenes where an antagonist yells shit that makes no sense and instead of it being any sort of conversation or anything even attempting to be thought provoking it's just one side prattling on. If the other side doesn't offer a counter argument for his madness to have an actual back and forth it makes his reasoning so much weaker. Because he never has to try and make and actual point. There's no depth at all when there isn't a conversation.
Okay, I'll try to stay as brief as possible, but here are my thoughts on why FC5 actually has a really good ending.
(Long thoughts on end-game spoilers below)
Many have interpreted the ending to mean that nothing you do in the game matters, and that we are supposed to take away from the game that Joseph Seed was actually right all along. While these are both technically correct statements, neither is actually right. Let's break each one down.
Nothing you do in the game matters because everyone dies in nuclear holocaust anyway.
Far Cry 5 will always end in nuclear war and devastation, regardless of which ending you go with. Even the secret ending and the "walk away" ending can be assumed to end there as well, we just don't quite get there. While I admit that the indications of this coming are too sparse in the game, the hints are there, that this is an unstoppable train rolling down the track and is going to smash into us no matter what. Nothing we can do in the game can change the fact that most of the people we save, befriend, and sacrifice for will end up dead.
And this is exactly how life has always played out for as long as life has existed.
We are all going to die one day. That's a verifiable fact until someone can provide a good counter-example. Every living thing eventually dies, and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. Not only will you die, but everyone you love will die, and all that will be left are a few memories. Until eventually those left after you die as well, and even those memories fade away, until nothing at all is left of you. As if you never existed in the first place. In the face of this knowledge, the reality is that nothing that any of us do will ever really matter in the grand scheme of things. Even those lucky enough to be recorded in the history books will eventually be forgotten as the human race dies out or as the sun consumes the solar system or in the eventual heat-death of the universe. Nothing we do matters in the long run.
Except that isn't true, is it? What we do does matter, because it matters to us, and it matters right now while we are here. It's the reason we continue to struggle forward in the face of overwhelming insignificance of our short lives. In Far Cry 5 nothing you can do through the course of the game will ultimately change the fact that they're all going to die, just like nothing we do in our life changes the same fact about our own lives. But for a short moment, you make their lives better. You allow a pilot to enjoy his life with his wife and new daughter in peace for a few days, free from the oppressive cult trying to take advantage of him. You rescue a celebrity bear from being killed, allowing him a final romp to enjoy himself. You provide closure to a woman who has been mentally and physically abused as she watches you take vengeance on the man who horrifically murdered her loved ones. These stories play out again and again over the course of the game as you beat back the cult through sheer force of will, returning some sense of normalcy to a once proud and free county. Why though? You know you're going to die along with the rest of these people eventually, if not minutes or days, then maybe months or decades. Why bother?
The point is not, "Nothing you do in this game matters." The point is, "Nothing you do in this game matters, but you do it anyway because it's the right thing to do."
Joseph Seed was actually right all along.
Yup, that's true. And my response to that is, so what? Based on the state of the world in the game (and not a huge stretch from the actual state of the world now), this apocalypse was coming whether Seed and his cult were there or not. He can claim that he was given divine signs of its coming, but so have hundreds of other cult leaders over the centuries. Eventually one of them might turn out to be right. In this case, Seed interpreted world events well enough to see what was coming and prepare for it. He's not a prophet, and he doesn't talk to God, but he does at least know how to prepare for the worst.
So sure, that makes him correct. But it doesn't make him right.
Obviously the way in which he prepared for the collapse was awful in every way possible. Murdering people, involuntarily forcing them into a doomsday cult, and using drugs, fear, and eschatological rhetoric to ensure compliance is completely immoral. You as the deputy are right to fight against it, and I can't entertain any serious argument that tries to justify not fighting him as the right thing to do. Even if the claim is that Joseph's tactics, left unchecked, would maximize the number of survivors when the end does come, what is the price they have to pay in order to do so? And as we already established, they're all going to die eventually anyway. All of us are constantly fighting for just a little more time. That's all life is, scratching and clawing to get just a few more minutes before we succumb to that unending darkness. But sometimes the price we pay to earn that tiny bit of extra time isn't worth it. This is one of those cases. I would wager most of the people in Hope County, if given the option, would prefer to die in a nuclear apocalypse as free people than to ride it out for a few more years in fear under a madman's oppression. I know I would.
So then what is the message of this game?
To me, it's pretty simple. While you're still here, while you still have the opportunity, you do what's right. Even though nothing you do will ultimately matter, you do it anyway. There's actually a clarity and optimism to that that I haven't seen from any of the other Far Cry games, or many other games in general. The Deputy sees what's happening, and even in the end when you're locked in a bunker with a madman, nuclear bombs still literally exploding in the world above, you can look back on what you did with a clear conscience. You brought hope to the people of Hope County. Even if it was only for a little while. But in the grand scheme of things, a little while is all we're ever going to get.
That ignores the other INCREDIBLY BIG point that ruins it all.
It's not the message or lack thereof that bothers a big set of people. It's not that the "bad guy wins". This has been said plenty of times in here. It's that you as the main character sit there and just listen to him spout his psycho nonsense without speaking out against it. It's the reason that leads some people to feel that there is a statement being made because they went with a silent protagonist while telling a story that a silent protagonist does not work for. If there was some show of the MC actually pointing out why he was wrong and making a show of the fact the fact that what he's preaching actually doesn't make sense most of the issues go away and it can work out as you stated above. But as is they dropped the ball majorly.
Counterpoint:
That doesn't ruin anything. You as the deputy pretty much single-handedly dismantle the cult and oppose them at every turn. You don’t need extraneous dialogue to say this, it’s shown in your actions throughout the game. Would the deputy monologing back at the bad guys about how evil they are make any more of a statement than fucking up their infrastructure at every level?
Seriously, I don’t understand how people can see the lack of dialogue on the part of the deputy to be some kind of tacit endorsement of Seed’s message. That’s reading something that just isn’t there. The deputy doesn’t speak with words, s/he speaks with action.
Largely, the tacit "endorsement", comes from the fact that Joseph Seed is untouchable.
You can't shoot him, you can't stop him, and eventually the game pulls a nuke out of it's ass to prove him right.
Yes, i know there are radio transmissions (that almost nobody seems to hear), and other small snippets about how things are happening outside Hope county, but largely it is nothing that has not been happening, for decades.
The final act of the story, is to have Joseph Seed, vindicated, righteous, preaching at you of how you and him are going to go into the future.
And how you are not his child, family, to replace the famile that was taken from him.
No, the story quite clearly wants us to think that we were wrong to oppose Joseph, and that Joseph was, at some level, justified in his actions, and that our violence used in opposing him makes us just as bad, if not worse.
We're probably not going to come to an agreement on this point. You think I'm glossing over the true intentions of the writers, and I think you're just flat out wrong on how you're interpreting the story. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. And by "we" I mean most of the people in this thread, because I realize my view is probably not the popular one.
Hopefully the DLC comes out soon, and is good. It'll be nice to be able to enjoy this thread again without the constant cycle of
"I thought this game was alright"
"Actually the game is terrible, and the story is stupid. Here's the reasons I made up in my head to support my claims"
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
Okay, I'll try to stay as brief as possible, but here are my thoughts on why FC5 actually has a really good ending.
(Long thoughts on end-game spoilers below)
Many have interpreted the ending to mean that nothing you do in the game matters, and that we are supposed to take away from the game that Joseph Seed was actually right all along. While these are both technically correct statements, neither is actually right. Let's break each one down.
Nothing you do in the game matters because everyone dies in nuclear holocaust anyway.
Far Cry 5 will always end in nuclear war and devastation, regardless of which ending you go with. Even the secret ending and the "walk away" ending can be assumed to end there as well, we just don't quite get there. While I admit that the indications of this coming are too sparse in the game, the hints are there, that this is an unstoppable train rolling down the track and is going to smash into us no matter what. Nothing we can do in the game can change the fact that most of the people we save, befriend, and sacrifice for will end up dead.
And this is exactly how life has always played out for as long as life has existed.
We are all going to die one day. That's a verifiable fact until someone can provide a good counter-example. Every living thing eventually dies, and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. Not only will you die, but everyone you love will die, and all that will be left are a few memories. Until eventually those left after you die as well, and even those memories fade away, until nothing at all is left of you. As if you never existed in the first place. In the face of this knowledge, the reality is that nothing that any of us do will ever really matter in the grand scheme of things. Even those lucky enough to be recorded in the history books will eventually be forgotten as the human race dies out or as the sun consumes the solar system or in the eventual heat-death of the universe. Nothing we do matters in the long run.
Except that isn't true, is it? What we do does matter, because it matters to us, and it matters right now while we are here. It's the reason we continue to struggle forward in the face of overwhelming insignificance of our short lives. In Far Cry 5 nothing you can do through the course of the game will ultimately change the fact that they're all going to die, just like nothing we do in our life changes the same fact about our own lives. But for a short moment, you make their lives better. You allow a pilot to enjoy his life with his wife and new daughter in peace for a few days, free from the oppressive cult trying to take advantage of him. You rescue a celebrity bear from being killed, allowing him a final romp to enjoy himself. You provide closure to a woman who has been mentally and physically abused as she watches you take vengeance on the man who horrifically murdered her loved ones. These stories play out again and again over the course of the game as you beat back the cult through sheer force of will, returning some sense of normalcy to a once proud and free county. Why though? You know you're going to die along with the rest of these people eventually, if not minutes or days, then maybe months or decades. Why bother?
The point is not, "Nothing you do in this game matters." The point is, "Nothing you do in this game matters, but you do it anyway because it's the right thing to do."
Joseph Seed was actually right all along.
Yup, that's true. And my response to that is, so what? Based on the state of the world in the game (and not a huge stretch from the actual state of the world now), this apocalypse was coming whether Seed and his cult were there or not. He can claim that he was given divine signs of its coming, but so have hundreds of other cult leaders over the centuries. Eventually one of them might turn out to be right. In this case, Seed interpreted world events well enough to see what was coming and prepare for it. He's not a prophet, and he doesn't talk to God, but he does at least know how to prepare for the worst.
So sure, that makes him correct. But it doesn't make him right.
Obviously the way in which he prepared for the collapse was awful in every way possible. Murdering people, involuntarily forcing them into a doomsday cult, and using drugs, fear, and eschatological rhetoric to ensure compliance is completely immoral. You as the deputy are right to fight against it, and I can't entertain any serious argument that tries to justify not fighting him as the right thing to do. Even if the claim is that Joseph's tactics, left unchecked, would maximize the number of survivors when the end does come, what is the price they have to pay in order to do so? And as we already established, they're all going to die eventually anyway. All of us are constantly fighting for just a little more time. That's all life is, scratching and clawing to get just a few more minutes before we succumb to that unending darkness. But sometimes the price we pay to earn that tiny bit of extra time isn't worth it. This is one of those cases. I would wager most of the people in Hope County, if given the option, would prefer to die in a nuclear apocalypse as free people than to ride it out for a few more years in fear under a madman's oppression. I know I would.
So then what is the message of this game?
To me, it's pretty simple. While you're still here, while you still have the opportunity, you do what's right. Even though nothing you do will ultimately matter, you do it anyway. There's actually a clarity and optimism to that that I haven't seen from any of the other Far Cry games, or many other games in general. The Deputy sees what's happening, and even in the end when you're locked in a bunker with a madman, nuclear bombs still literally exploding in the world above, you can look back on what you did with a clear conscience. You brought hope to the people of Hope County. Even if it was only for a little while. But in the grand scheme of things, a little while is all we're ever going to get.
That ignores the other INCREDIBLY BIG point that ruins it all.
It's not the message or lack thereof that bothers a big set of people. It's not that the "bad guy wins". This has been said plenty of times in here. It's that you as the main character sit there and just listen to him spout his psycho nonsense without speaking out against it. It's the reason that leads some people to feel that there is a statement being made because they went with a silent protagonist while telling a story that a silent protagonist does not work for. If there was some show of the MC actually pointing out why he was wrong and making a show of the fact the fact that what he's preaching actually doesn't make sense most of the issues go away and it can work out as you stated above. But as is they dropped the ball majorly.
Counterpoint:
That doesn't ruin anything. You as the deputy pretty much single-handedly dismantle the cult and oppose them at every turn. You don’t need extraneous dialogue to say this, it’s shown in your actions throughout the game. Would the deputy monologing back at the bad guys about how evil they are make any more of a statement than fucking up their infrastructure at every level?
Seriously, I don’t understand how people can see the lack of dialogue on the part of the deputy to be some kind of tacit endorsement of Seed’s message. That’s reading something that just isn’t there. The deputy doesn’t speak with words, s/he speaks with action.
Largely, the tacit "endorsement", comes from the fact that Joseph Seed is untouchable.
You can't shoot him, you can't stop him, and eventually the game pulls a nuke out of it's ass to prove him right.
Yes, i know there are radio transmissions (that almost nobody seems to hear), and other small snippets about how things are happening outside Hope county, but largely it is nothing that has not been happening, for decades.
The final act of the story, is to have Joseph Seed, vindicated, righteous, preaching at you of how you and him are going to go into the future.
And how you are not his child, family, to replace the famile that was taken from him.
No, the story quite clearly wants us to think that we were wrong to oppose Joseph, and that Joseph was, at some level, justified in his actions, and that our violence used in opposing him makes us just as bad, if not worse.
We're probably not going to come to an agreement on this point. You think I'm glossing over the true intentions of the writers, and I think you're just flat out wrong on how you're interpreting the story. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. And by "we" I mean most of the people in this thread, because I realize my view is probably not the popular one.
Hopefully the DLC comes out soon, and is good. It'll be nice to be able to enjoy this thread again without the constant cycle of
"I thought this game was alright"
"Actually the game is terrible, and the story is stupid. Here's the reasons I made up in my head to support my claims"
I liked the game. I had much fun with it and have said so many times.
Forcing a silent protagonist into a story like this makes no sense at all and was very clearly only done for the whole multi-player aspect and carrying your character into the arcade stuff. I gave pretty good reasoning above as well as to what the issues are with story telling in this particular case are.
I'm not really sure how that's made up. Nothing wrong with liking and enjoying the game(I sure did) or even liking the story if you did. I've liked all sorts of stories with issues and holes and problematic parts. But that doesn't mean you should just claim it's great and ignore the issues/not want other people to even discuss those potential issues.
Okay, I'll try to stay as brief as possible, but here are my thoughts on why FC5 actually has a really good ending.
(Long thoughts on end-game spoilers below)
Many have interpreted the ending to mean that nothing you do in the game matters, and that we are supposed to take away from the game that Joseph Seed was actually right all along. While these are both technically correct statements, neither is actually right. Let's break each one down.
Nothing you do in the game matters because everyone dies in nuclear holocaust anyway.
Far Cry 5 will always end in nuclear war and devastation, regardless of which ending you go with. Even the secret ending and the "walk away" ending can be assumed to end there as well, we just don't quite get there. While I admit that the indications of this coming are too sparse in the game, the hints are there, that this is an unstoppable train rolling down the track and is going to smash into us no matter what. Nothing we can do in the game can change the fact that most of the people we save, befriend, and sacrifice for will end up dead.
And this is exactly how life has always played out for as long as life has existed.
We are all going to die one day. That's a verifiable fact until someone can provide a good counter-example. Every living thing eventually dies, and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. Not only will you die, but everyone you love will die, and all that will be left are a few memories. Until eventually those left after you die as well, and even those memories fade away, until nothing at all is left of you. As if you never existed in the first place. In the face of this knowledge, the reality is that nothing that any of us do will ever really matter in the grand scheme of things. Even those lucky enough to be recorded in the history books will eventually be forgotten as the human race dies out or as the sun consumes the solar system or in the eventual heat-death of the universe. Nothing we do matters in the long run.
Except that isn't true, is it? What we do does matter, because it matters to us, and it matters right now while we are here. It's the reason we continue to struggle forward in the face of overwhelming insignificance of our short lives. In Far Cry 5 nothing you can do through the course of the game will ultimately change the fact that they're all going to die, just like nothing we do in our life changes the same fact about our own lives. But for a short moment, you make their lives better. You allow a pilot to enjoy his life with his wife and new daughter in peace for a few days, free from the oppressive cult trying to take advantage of him. You rescue a celebrity bear from being killed, allowing him a final romp to enjoy himself. You provide closure to a woman who has been mentally and physically abused as she watches you take vengeance on the man who horrifically murdered her loved ones. These stories play out again and again over the course of the game as you beat back the cult through sheer force of will, returning some sense of normalcy to a once proud and free county. Why though? You know you're going to die along with the rest of these people eventually, if not minutes or days, then maybe months or decades. Why bother?
The point is not, "Nothing you do in this game matters." The point is, "Nothing you do in this game matters, but you do it anyway because it's the right thing to do."
Joseph Seed was actually right all along.
Yup, that's true. And my response to that is, so what? Based on the state of the world in the game (and not a huge stretch from the actual state of the world now), this apocalypse was coming whether Seed and his cult were there or not. He can claim that he was given divine signs of its coming, but so have hundreds of other cult leaders over the centuries. Eventually one of them might turn out to be right. In this case, Seed interpreted world events well enough to see what was coming and prepare for it. He's not a prophet, and he doesn't talk to God, but he does at least know how to prepare for the worst.
So sure, that makes him correct. But it doesn't make him right.
Obviously the way in which he prepared for the collapse was awful in every way possible. Murdering people, involuntarily forcing them into a doomsday cult, and using drugs, fear, and eschatological rhetoric to ensure compliance is completely immoral. You as the deputy are right to fight against it, and I can't entertain any serious argument that tries to justify not fighting him as the right thing to do. Even if the claim is that Joseph's tactics, left unchecked, would maximize the number of survivors when the end does come, what is the price they have to pay in order to do so? And as we already established, they're all going to die eventually anyway. All of us are constantly fighting for just a little more time. That's all life is, scratching and clawing to get just a few more minutes before we succumb to that unending darkness. But sometimes the price we pay to earn that tiny bit of extra time isn't worth it. This is one of those cases. I would wager most of the people in Hope County, if given the option, would prefer to die in a nuclear apocalypse as free people than to ride it out for a few more years in fear under a madman's oppression. I know I would.
So then what is the message of this game?
To me, it's pretty simple. While you're still here, while you still have the opportunity, you do what's right. Even though nothing you do will ultimately matter, you do it anyway. There's actually a clarity and optimism to that that I haven't seen from any of the other Far Cry games, or many other games in general. The Deputy sees what's happening, and even in the end when you're locked in a bunker with a madman, nuclear bombs still literally exploding in the world above, you can look back on what you did with a clear conscience. You brought hope to the people of Hope County. Even if it was only for a little while. But in the grand scheme of things, a little while is all we're ever going to get.
That ignores the other INCREDIBLY BIG point that ruins it all.
It's not the message or lack thereof that bothers a big set of people. It's not that the "bad guy wins". This has been said plenty of times in here. It's that you as the main character sit there and just listen to him spout his psycho nonsense without speaking out against it. It's the reason that leads some people to feel that there is a statement being made because they went with a silent protagonist while telling a story that a silent protagonist does not work for. If there was some show of the MC actually pointing out why he was wrong and making a show of the fact the fact that what he's preaching actually doesn't make sense most of the issues go away and it can work out as you stated above. But as is they dropped the ball majorly.
Counterpoint:
That doesn't ruin anything. You as the deputy pretty much single-handedly dismantle the cult and oppose them at every turn. You don’t need extraneous dialogue to say this, it’s shown in your actions throughout the game. Would the deputy monologing back at the bad guys about how evil they are make any more of a statement than fucking up their infrastructure at every level?
Seriously, I don’t understand how people can see the lack of dialogue on the part of the deputy to be some kind of tacit endorsement of Seed’s message. That’s reading something that just isn’t there. The deputy doesn’t speak with words, s/he speaks with action.
Largely, the tacit "endorsement", comes from the fact that Joseph Seed is untouchable.
You can't shoot him, you can't stop him, and eventually the game pulls a nuke out of it's ass to prove him right.
Yes, i know there are radio transmissions (that almost nobody seems to hear), and other small snippets about how things are happening outside Hope county, but largely it is nothing that has not been happening, for decades.
The final act of the story, is to have Joseph Seed, vindicated, righteous, preaching at you of how you and him are going to go into the future.
And how you are not his child, family, to replace the famile that was taken from him.
No, the story quite clearly wants us to think that we were wrong to oppose Joseph, and that Joseph was, at some level, justified in his actions, and that our violence used in opposing him makes us just as bad, if not worse.
We're probably not going to come to an agreement on this point. You think I'm glossing over the true intentions of the writers, and I think you're just flat out wrong on how you're interpreting the story. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. And by "we" I mean most of the people in this thread, because I realize my view is probably not the popular one.
Hopefully the DLC comes out soon, and is good. It'll be nice to be able to enjoy this thread again without the constant cycle of
"I thought this game was alright"
"Actually the game is terrible, and the story is stupid. Here's the reasons I made up in my head to support my claims"
The game, if by game we mean the parts that have no story relevance and confine themselves to simply murder tourism in scenic Montana, are pretty good.
The story is so terrible that i must conclude that people who don't find it terrible are simply unable to process the amount of suck, which i don't blame them for, for the horribleness of the game truly defies human comprehension.
/joking
/but only a little
I have written what amounts to a fairly large essay on the subject of just how bad the game is, others have written more, and better.
There's an almost 3 hour retrospective on Far Cry series from Noah Caldwell-Gervais, which goes into the flaws and weaknesses of the Far Cry 5 story and gameplay, Errant Signal has a 24 minute video about how empty the Far Cry 5 story is of actual message because it is too afraid to say anything, about anything.
The failings of the game, and its story, have been quite adequately shown.
If you liked it, great, i'm happy for you, i wish i had.
But we most certainly are not making up things to criticize the game for.
There's two parts to this game; the gameplay and the story.
The gameplay emphasises freedom to do what you want, and gives you agency (at least with regard to the specific flavour of murder you dole out).
The story deliberately robs you of your agency, giving you either no choices or choices that don't matter and have no positive outcome.
I can believe that someone did this deliberately (probably explaining it with words like 'juxtaposition'), but if so, it wasn't done well.
There's two parts to this game; the gameplay and the story.
The gameplay emphasises freedom to do what you want, and gives you agency (at least with regard to the specific flavour or murder you dole out).
The story deliberately robs you of your agency, giving you either no choices or choices that don't matter and have no positive outcome.
I can believe that someone did this deliberately (probably explaining it with words like 'juxtaposition'), but if so, it wasn't done well.
Dan Hay is a "bit" of a crackpot, who absolutely made the game as a statement because he's terrified that the actual, real world is heading to its end.
Vice did an interview with him last month regarding his motivation, and I really can't paint a picture as bizarre as the video.
(warning: surprise ending spoilers past 5:15 because classy Vice)
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
The fact that there's a silent protagonist may be because they wanted the player to be The Deputy kinda deal. I mean, it may have been a statement, but there are other possibilities.
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
I really do understand where you guys are coming from in terms of the story being bad, I just couldn’t disagree more. But hey, that’s cool, because the one thing I think most of us can agree on is that the gameplay itself is DOOOOOOOPE. Now that I’ve run through the single player campaign, I’d love to get in on some of that sweet coop action. Anyone still playing through, feel free to hit me up if you need a partner.
I really do understand where you guys are coming from in terms of the story being bad, I just couldn’t disagree more. But hey, that’s cool, because the one thing I think most of us can agree on is that the gameplay itself is DOOOOOOOPE. Now that I’ve run through the single player campaign, I’d love to get in on some of that sweet coop action. Anyone still playing through, feel free to hit me up if you need a partner.
I tried to express that I also liked it, but it appears this is a Bad Opinion™ and it cannot possibly be otherwise.
I really do understand where you guys are coming from in terms of the story being bad, I just couldn’t disagree more. But hey, that’s cool, because the one thing I think most of us can agree on is that the gameplay itself is DOOOOOOOPE. Now that I’ve run through the single player campaign, I’d love to get in on some of that sweet coop action. Anyone still playing through, feel free to hit me up if you need a partner.
I tried to express that I also liked it, but it appears this is a Bad Opinion™ and it cannot possibly be otherwise.
It's not a Bad Opinion™, just an incorrect one.
/joking
If people liked it, good for them.
I suspect how you view the story in FC5 may depend lot on how much political news you consume, and what other media you consume.
Even the most boring, trite and overused story is new and exiting to someone who has not had the time to get fed up with it.
I’ve liberated 2 regions at the moment, and while I find the main story (with the captures) extremely boring/annoying, it’s the chitchat from the characters and the notes you can find around that make the world so colourful.
I’m mean, how can you not like Zip Kupka’s mission? And later when you get to a hospital...
you find out which kind of objects they have removed from his “body cavity” and that it isn’t covered by insurance
Also, don’t let Hurk go anywhere near mashed potatoes (talk to him while in Faith’s region )
I do love that Hurk just rpgs everything. Makes those endless random enemy planes much less bothersome.
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Absurdity MatrixTumbledown GloryOn the OutskirtsRegistered Userregular
edited May 2018
This afternoon, I finished the game, and I can now read spoilers in this thread! Drez, your ending spoilers were fantastic. Simple, yet on point.
Anyway, oof, that sure was something, right? I think I can contribute something regarding the ending(s). It's dumb, but it's more the "the Far Cry series by Ubisoft" on-brand dumb. Anyway:
It's meta. There are at least a few times where Joseph is not speaking to you, the voiceless Sheriff's Deputy and proxy for the player, but speaking to you, the player themself.
Yeah, there's radio news about a deteriorating world situation, but even if you catch them, that final ending comes out of left field, doesn't it? It even seems to depend on which button you press. It's the only context in which the world's deteriorating situation is, in any way, actually a product of your actions: you played the game.
I think that's the context for those "region liberated" monologues: Joseph is breaking the fourth wall. He may even be actually talking to what, in a video game, passes for "god".
Absurdity Matrix on
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Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
edited May 2018
Ending.
What the hell was up with Joseph and his "You caused this" bullshit? By choosing to turn in a known criminal, which is the deputy's job, I literally unleashed Armageddon with my own hands...? Sure buddy, that seems plausible.
It was hard not to laugh when he chastised me for solving problems with bullets when he has had a brainwashed army armed to the teeth literally kill anyone who doesnt agree with them.
Also, you kill a shit ton of people... But lets just arrest Joseph Seed? Fuck no, I would have left his sorry ass to the Nuke, riddled with bullets.
Sirialis on
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Absurdity MatrixTumbledown GloryOn the OutskirtsRegistered Userregular
What the hell was up with Joseph and his "You caused this" bullshit? By choosing to turn in a known criminal, which is the deputy's job, I literally unleashed Armageddon with my own hands...? Sure buddy, that seems plausible.
Yup, I had a very similar reaction when I reached that point.
Absurdity Matrix on
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
After reading spoilers about the ending I can't say that I'm not pleased I didn't buy this game but...
Just kidding!
I'm so glad I didn't buy this game. Fuck Ubisoft's writers and fuck their "both sides" childish bullshit.
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
After reading spoilers about the ending I can't say that I'm not pleased I didn't buy this game but...
Just kidding!
I'm so glad I didn't buy this game. Fuck Ubisoft's writers and fuck their "both sides" childish bullshit.
Ahh good, another well-formed opinion from someone who didn’t play the game! I’m sure it will go over swimmingly with those of us who played and enjoyed it. Well done, my good fellow!
After reading spoilers about the ending I can't say that I'm not pleased I didn't buy this game but...
Just kidding!
I'm so glad I didn't buy this game. Fuck Ubisoft's writers and fuck their "both sides" childish bullshit.
Ahh good, another well-formed opinion from someone who didn’t play the game! I’m sure it will go over swimmingly with those of us who played and enjoyed it. Well done, my good fellow!
Why do I have to play it to have an opinion on just the story after reading the wiki/ watching the ending/ and reading people's opinions about it?
I was on the fence anyway because Ive played other Far Cry games and while it has always had uneven or silly writing (I found 3 to juxtapose between interesting with Vaas and dumb afterwards, really enjoyed Primal, and passed on 4 because it looked silly), but it's never outright tried to insult me for simply playing the game before while giving me no option to retaliate or change my fate.
Nothing you did mattered, all your friends die, everything bad that did happen is your fault, and to top it off you have to just sit there and take it with your silent on-rails protagonist. Let's let this psychopath do whatever he wanted because he was totally "right" about the bombs going to fall and also magic drugs... that's not going to earn my 60 bucks, and if I had spent it I might have enjoyed the game itself but I would have been pissed by the ending.
As someone else said, it actively feels like you're getting spited by an edgelord Dungeon Master who causes rocks fall to kill the party because reasons.
If you liked it great, I won't hold it against you, but they lost a potential by over this nonsense
Why do I have to play it to have an opinion on just the story after reading the wiki/ watching the ending/ and reading people's opinions about it?
What does "haha, this thing sucks!" add to the discussion?
That's not what he said though.
He expressed how, as a fan of Far Cry games, the writing here has caused him to not pick this one up. That seems to fit perfectly fine as part of the discussion here. People are allowed to say "Oh man I just picked this up and I'm having a blast!" which doesn't really make a lot of discussion, but you're not going to tell them not to post that are you?
After reading spoilers about the ending I can't say that I'm not pleased I didn't buy this game but...
Just kidding!
I'm so glad I didn't buy this game. Fuck Ubisoft's writers and fuck their "both sides" childish bullshit.
That's his entire post. "This thing sucks, I'm glad I didn't buy it." If he wanted to contribute to the spoilered discussion, there is literally a page full of spoilers right here to do so. Just quote a spoiler and post in there, instead of openly discussing end shit where those of us who haven't beaten the game yet see it.
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Steam: MightyPotatoKing
I've being thinking a lot of the same. We do what we can in the time we have, 'gods' and 'prophets' be damned.
Although for me:
Indeed! I have hope for resolution on that though.
It probably doesn't make sense and would be way too ambitious to pull off, but boy would that be fun. Either way though, my head canon assumes that the deputy breaks loose and murders Joseph Seed mere minutes after the fade to black at the end of FC5. That will always be the true ending to me.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
I like to imagine that Rex Power Colt bursts in there and snaps the handcuffs with his power-glove, while a blood dragon chows down on Seed. Then Rex and The Deputy deliver justice and freedom to the post-apocalyptic landscape.
"This is for Boomer, you son of a bitch."
That ignores the other INCREDIBLY BIG point that ruins it all.
It tries to guilt you for trying to stop psychopatic murderers, worse, it punishes you be giving you worse and worse ending more you try to do good.
The story is poorly told, relies on plot convenience and magic drug, and has boring villains.
And, at the end, you are not even allowed to shoot this child murderer, torturer, psychopathic brain washer and mass murderer.
The "everyone dies in the end" is a stupid message, because even if we die, others continue to live, and while our actions may not matter to the greater universe, it matters to us, here and now.
And i don't even think it was the message, you can force it out of the story, as you can force many other messages if you really want to.
No, the story is not good, it is not clever, it fails to even be dumb in an entertaining way.
Counterpoint:
Seriously, I don’t understand how people can see the lack of dialogue on the part of the deputy to be some kind of tacit endorsement of Seed’s message. That’s reading something that just isn’t there. The deputy doesn’t speak with words, s/he speaks with action.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
I actually already addressed this in my previous breakdown.
To the point that the story is sometimes poorly told... eh, I don't totally disagree with you there. There are some mechanics they could have worked out better, specifically the sections where the baddies find you and bring you in. From a broad perspective though, I really appreciate what they attempted to pull off, and I feel like they mostly succeeded. As I said, even if many people had issues with it, it definitely worked for me.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
You can't shoot him, you can't stop him, and eventually the game pulls a nuke out of it's ass to prove him right.
Yes, i know there are radio transmissions (that almost nobody seems to hear), and other small snippets about how things are happening outside Hope county, but largely it is nothing that has not been happening, for decades.
The final act of the story, is to have Joseph Seed, vindicated, righteous, preaching at you of how you and him are going to go into the future.
And how you are not his child, family, to replace the famile that was taken from him.
No, the story quite clearly wants us to think that we were wrong to oppose Joseph, and that Joseph was, at some level, justified in his actions, and that our violence used in opposing him makes us just as bad, if not worse.
We're probably not going to come to an agreement on this point. You think I'm glossing over the true intentions of the writers, and I think you're just flat out wrong on how you're interpreting the story. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. And by "we" I mean most of the people in this thread, because I realize my view is probably not the popular one.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
2nd: If there is no writing or story reason for a silent protagonist then it shouldn't be there. The only reason they did it in this game is because of the multi-player stuff that they wanted to connect to the main game. It has nothing to do with writing or story telling. It was not there to add anything to the single player experience. And thus you get a scenes where an antagonist yells shit that makes no sense and instead of it being any sort of conversation or anything even attempting to be thought provoking it's just one side prattling on. If the other side doesn't offer a counter argument for his madness to have an actual back and forth it makes his reasoning so much weaker. Because he never has to try and make and actual point. There's no depth at all when there isn't a conversation.
Hopefully the DLC comes out soon, and is good. It'll be nice to be able to enjoy this thread again without the constant cycle of
"I thought this game was alright"
"Actually the game is terrible, and the story is stupid. Here's the reasons I made up in my head to support my claims"
I liked the game. I had much fun with it and have said so many times.
Forcing a silent protagonist into a story like this makes no sense at all and was very clearly only done for the whole multi-player aspect and carrying your character into the arcade stuff. I gave pretty good reasoning above as well as to what the issues are with story telling in this particular case are.
I'm not really sure how that's made up. Nothing wrong with liking and enjoying the game(I sure did) or even liking the story if you did. I've liked all sorts of stories with issues and holes and problematic parts. But that doesn't mean you should just claim it's great and ignore the issues/not want other people to even discuss those potential issues.
The story is so terrible that i must conclude that people who don't find it terrible are simply unable to process the amount of suck, which i don't blame them for, for the horribleness of the game truly defies human comprehension.
/joking
/but only a little
I have written what amounts to a fairly large essay on the subject of just how bad the game is, others have written more, and better.
There's an almost 3 hour retrospective on Far Cry series from Noah Caldwell-Gervais, which goes into the flaws and weaknesses of the Far Cry 5 story and gameplay, Errant Signal has a 24 minute video about how empty the Far Cry 5 story is of actual message because it is too afraid to say anything, about anything.
The failings of the game, and its story, have been quite adequately shown.
If you liked it, great, i'm happy for you, i wish i had.
But we most certainly are not making up things to criticize the game for.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
The story deliberately robs you of your agency, giving you either no choices or choices that don't matter and have no positive outcome.
I can believe that someone did this deliberately (probably explaining it with words like 'juxtaposition'), but if so, it wasn't done well.
Vice did an interview with him last month regarding his motivation, and I really can't paint a picture as bizarre as the video.
(warning: surprise ending spoilers past 5:15 because classy Vice)
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
I tried to express that I also liked it, but it appears this is a Bad Opinion™ and it cannot possibly be otherwise.
/joking
If people liked it, good for them.
I suspect how you view the story in FC5 may depend lot on how much political news you consume, and what other media you consume.
Even the most boring, trite and overused story is new and exiting to someone who has not had the time to get fed up with it.
That said.. this is the most fun I've had in a Far Cry game.
Here's hoping the dlc is just as good
I’m mean, how can you not like Zip Kupka’s mission? And later when you get to a hospital...
Also, don’t let Hurk go anywhere near mashed potatoes (talk to him while in Faith’s region
And mama Drubman uses a real colourful language
But the main antagonist? Yuk :bigfrown:
Anyway, oof, that sure was something, right? I think I can contribute something regarding the ending(s). It's dumb, but it's more the "the Far Cry series by Ubisoft" on-brand dumb. Anyway:
Yeah, there's radio news about a deteriorating world situation, but even if you catch them, that final ending comes out of left field, doesn't it? It even seems to depend on which button you press. It's the only context in which the world's deteriorating situation is, in any way, actually a product of your actions: you played the game.
I think that's the context for those "region liberated" monologues: Joseph is breaking the fourth wall. He may even be actually talking to what, in a video game, passes for "god".
It was hard not to laugh when he chastised me for solving problems with bullets when he has had a brainwashed army armed to the teeth literally kill anyone who doesnt agree with them.
Also, you kill a shit ton of people... But lets just arrest Joseph Seed? Fuck no, I would have left his sorry ass to the Nuke, riddled with bullets.
Yup, I had a very similar reaction when I reached that point.
Just kidding!
I'm so glad I didn't buy this game. Fuck Ubisoft's writers and fuck their "both sides" childish bullshit.
Ahh good, another well-formed opinion from someone who didn’t play the game! I’m sure it will go over swimmingly with those of us who played and enjoyed it. Well done, my good fellow!
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
Why do I have to play it to have an opinion on just the story after reading the wiki/ watching the ending/ and reading people's opinions about it?
I was on the fence anyway because Ive played other Far Cry games and while it has always had uneven or silly writing (I found 3 to juxtapose between interesting with Vaas and dumb afterwards, really enjoyed Primal, and passed on 4 because it looked silly), but it's never outright tried to insult me for simply playing the game before while giving me no option to retaliate or change my fate.
As someone else said, it actively feels like you're getting spited by an edgelord Dungeon Master who causes rocks fall to kill the party because reasons.
If you liked it great, I won't hold it against you, but they lost a potential by over this nonsense
This weekend it's her turn and we're almost done with the 3rd region. Next weekend I'll finish the 3rd then we do the ending.
I hope the next one goes all in on a true coop campaign. FC3 came closest with the coop separate story and we loved that.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
That's not what he said though.
He expressed how, as a fan of Far Cry games, the writing here has caused him to not pick this one up. That seems to fit perfectly fine as part of the discussion here. People are allowed to say "Oh man I just picked this up and I'm having a blast!" which doesn't really make a lot of discussion, but you're not going to tell them not to post that are you?
I beg to differ: That's his entire post. "This thing sucks, I'm glad I didn't buy it." If he wanted to contribute to the spoilered discussion, there is literally a page full of spoilers right here to do so. Just quote a spoiler and post in there, instead of openly discussing end shit where those of us who haven't beaten the game yet see it.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists