The existence of large areas populated by just one religious group doesn't really sway things, because the issue here is a large religious group that's murder-happy.
Oh, so it's fine if they break the law, as long as it's not straight-up murder?
Montana is 147,040 mi². FarCry 3's map is about 310 mi² (according to this guy), and FarCry 4's is about the same. So if you're talking about "that much area control" in Montana, yeah, I can believe a sovereign nation / white supremacist cult could take over 0.2% of Montana and get away with it inside this political climate. Sure, that's about 7x the size of Billings, Montana - but Montana has a population density of 6.5 people per square mile. So figure 2,015 people in those 310 mi². Wikipedia says there are about 100,000 sovereign citizens in the US. Could five percent of them gather up the ~$108mil needed to buy ~198,400 acres in Montana? Sure. Sheldon Adelson donated almost that much to the Trump campaign in 2016.
The existence of large areas populated by just one religious group doesn't really sway things, because the issue here is a large religious group that's murder-happy.
The Branch Davidians would have been able to go about their lives for much longer if they hadn't had a box of weapons illegally shipped via UPS.
Being murder-happy is only a problem if the people being murdered are reported as missing / murdered bodies are found. There are tons of historic examples of groups like the ones we're discussing preventing that sort of info from getting out. Also, assume a complicit police force.
Montana is 147,040 mi². FarCry 3's map is about 310 mi² (according to this guy), and FarCry 4's is about the same. So if you're talking about "that much area control" in Montana, yeah, I can believe a sovereign nation / white supremacist cult could take over 0.2% of Montana and get away with it inside this political climate. Sure, that's about 7x the size of Billings, Montana - but Montana has a population density of 6.5 people per square mile. So figure 2,015 people in those 310 mi². Wikipedia says there are about 100,000 sovereign citizens in the US. Could five percent of them gather up the ~$108mil needed to buy ~198,400 acres in Montana? Sure. Sheldon Adelson donated almost that much to the Trump campaign in 2016.
The existence of large areas populated by just one religious group doesn't really sway things, because the issue here is a large religious group that's murder-happy.
The Branch Davidians would have been able to go about their lives for much longer if they hadn't had a box of weapons illegally shipped via UPS.
Being murder-happy is only a problem if the people being murdered are reported as missing / murdered bodies are found. There are tons of historic examples of groups like the ones we're discussing preventing that sort of info from getting out. Also, assume a complicit police force.
But again, none of these groups were Far Cry map-big, at least not in the United States. Plus, the Branch Davidians weren't taken down by the local police force -- they attracted the attention of the ATF. All on just 77 acres.
All the mention of the mystic shit in 3 and 4 makes me wonder if it'll be in 5 at all, or if they'll stick with a harder setting.
think there was something about the Ubi crew looking into local folk lore when first scouting the location, so should still get some weirdness i think.
All the mention of the mystic shit in 3 and 4 makes me wonder if it'll be in 5 at all, or if they'll stick with a harder setting.
think there was something about the Ubi crew looking into local folk lore when first scouting the location, so should still get some weirdness i think.
Native American stuff was my first though, but it seems too obvious.
The twist of the game should be that you're an even worse kind of cultist, and you get your sick powers from sacrificing dudes to Hastur.
So to be clear, @cloudeagle, your only issue with the conceit of Far Cry 5 is not the choice of antagonists, merely where they reside? That your only complaint is that you don't find it plausible enough that a relatively small (but still numbering in the hundreds or thousands) group of people could purchase enough land in the middle of nowhere?
Montana is 147,040 mi². FarCry 3's map is about 310 mi² (according to this guy), and FarCry 4's is about the same. So if you're talking about "that much area control" in Montana, yeah, I can believe a sovereign nation / white supremacist cult could take over 0.2% of Montana and get away with it inside this political climate. Sure, that's about 7x the size of Billings, Montana - but Montana has a population density of 6.5 people per square mile. So figure 2,015 people in those 310 mi². Wikipedia says there are about 100,000 sovereign citizens in the US. Could five percent of them gather up the ~$108mil needed to buy ~198,400 acres in Montana? Sure. Sheldon Adelson donated almost that much to the Trump campaign in 2016.
The existence of large areas populated by just one religious group doesn't really sway things, because the issue here is a large religious group that's murder-happy.
The Branch Davidians would have been able to go about their lives for much longer if they hadn't had a box of weapons illegally shipped via UPS.
Being murder-happy is only a problem if the people being murdered are reported as missing / murdered bodies are found. There are tons of historic examples of groups like the ones we're discussing preventing that sort of info from getting out. Also, assume a complicit police force.
But again, none of these groups were Far Cry map-big, at least not in the United States. Plus, the Branch Davidians weren't taken down by the local police force -- they attracted the attention of the ATF. All on just 77 acres.
...yeah dude, they were. Large scale insular religious institutions flourish in the US, and while they're not all malicious, most of them have documented cases of murder or abuse that's covered up by a sympatheticlocal authority (government, police, etc).
The Davidians only attracted Federal attention because of shipping illegal weapons via UPS. Strike that part, put 'em in an area where you're more likely to get attacked by a cougar than meet another person, and you really think that they're going to attract significant attention? Keep in mind our President refused to reject the endorsement of David fucking Duke.
Our country has an ugly, ugly history of turning a blind eye when those in power don't care to stop something. See: Andrew Jackson, Japanese internment, etc, etc
While it's not 194000 acres, I'm an Oregonian and old enough to remember Rajneeshpuram, which was a 64000 acre ranch owned by an armed religious cult in the 1980s. They eventually got run out of the state, but not after some seriously weird shit was gotten up to.
And that's with being - in the eyes of the locals - a bunch of weirdos who wore orange turbans and were led by an Indian guru. There was SUBSTANTIAL community opposition to the place is what I'm getting at there.
A bunch of Christians in Montana buying up what amounts to a big ranch? Locals would not bat an eye - and from the hands-off treatment the Bundys got when they took over a nature reserve here, I am not so sanguine that the Federal government would give a damn either.
So, far-fetched yes but not an absolutely insane prospect.
+7
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Y'know FC5 will probably be the largest landmass in a Farcry game and simultaneously the "smallest".
This amuses me.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
while we're on the size of the map, a thought has occurred to me. what will be the borders this time? in 3 we were on a island, 4 we were surrounded by mountains. what's gonna contain the action this time?
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited May 2017
Montana is notable for being the only landlocked state surrounded by ocean on all sides.
Ok, other than the demo of the original and the first couple hours of Blood Dragon, I have never played a Far Cry game. I have never been interested. But that promo image alone has me wanting to buy it without seeing a single other image or tidbit of gameplay. This feels right to me already.
Second: if you have, as an adult, seen Cars and not wondered to yourself "...but do they fuck?" then you weren't paying attention. That series is wrong.
+4
Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
Ok, other than the demo of the original and the first couple hours of Blood Dragon, I have never played a Far Cry game. I have never been interested. But that promo image alone has me wanting to buy it without seeing a single other image or tidbit of gameplay. This feels right to me already.
Second: if you have, as an adult, seen Cars and not wondered to yourself "...but do they fuck?" then you weren't paying attention. That series is wrong.
The buildings were clearly designed for people, but there are none. WHERE DID THE PEOPLE GO?!
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
It's worth noting that Montana is, in area, slightly larger than Germany. Most of the middle of Montana is full of brown absolutely nothing.
The PNW and mountain west states are mindbogglingly huge, when compared to most other states/countries. NW ID had an actual Nazi encampment, a large one, for years and years until a delightfully ironic legal verdict.
You could drop a giant compound full of anything in the middle of MT, and most people in the state wouldn't even know it was there, let alone know if they got shooty.
0
Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
Ok, I got curious. So I went down a bit of a google hole.
The Mormon Church owns 237 square miles of land in Montana. Ted Turner owns 232 square miles, and is a huge weirdo. Some family named frickin' Galt of all things owns 387 square miles of Montana. In all three cases (and the case of virtually every sizeable landowner in the state), the huge majority of this land is essentially empty and used as pasture for cattle.
The state also includes over 15,000 square miles of Native American Reservations. Total state area is 147,000 square miles. That's almost three New Yorks, or three and a half Virginias.
There are maybe 20,000 cops in Montana. Counting everything from Highway Patrol to local cops ahnd sheriff's deputies to state DoJ staff and Fish & Game Department employees. That's one for every 7.5 square miles of state.
So, if you're in rural Montana (which is the huge majority of Montana) and some shit goes down, best case scenario the math says you're within three and a half miles of a fish counter or maybe a Justice Accountant. Much more likely, you're miles and miles from anyone with a badge and have to hope a helpful local stumbles across you, because if you're not near a city you're probably just as far from a cell tower. And you better hope those "helpful" locals aren't members of one of the groups of crazies that have a history of months-long standoffs with law enforcement.
81 fuckin' days, y'all. During which they were offering bounties on Federal Judges and such.
I think Montana might be too outlandish for FarCry, not the other way around.
Far Cry maps aren't that big to begin with (you could drive from end to the other in what, 10 to 15 minutes?), whereas Montana is pretty fucking big and has lots of barren territory with negligible density, so count me in as this is the most realistic Far Cry map yet.
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Though as I think about all of this I should remember that I do live in a state with one of the largest, oldest, and most organized militia in the US. And while they don't necessarily control a huge chuck of land they also don't not control a pretty good size chunk of land.
Nowadays though they've purged the more radical members from their ranks and are mostly an organization for search and rescue/disaster relief.
Still though, when I joined the army they did ask me if I or any family were a member and throughout my career I'd still get grilled about it by a Fed from time to time.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Ok, I got curious. So I went down a bit of a google hole.
The Mormon Church owns 237 square miles of land in Montana. Ted Turner owns 232 square miles, and is a huge weirdo. Some family named frickin' Galt of all things owns 387 square miles of Montana. In all three cases (and the case of virtually every sizeable landowner in the state), the huge majority of this land is essentially empty and used as pasture for cattle.
The state also includes over 15,000 square miles of Native American Reservations. Total state area is 147,000 square miles. That's almost three New Yorks, or three and a half Virginias.
There are maybe 20,000 cops in Montana. Counting everything from Highway Patrol to local cops ahnd sheriff's deputies to state DoJ staff and Fish & Game Department employees. That's one for every 7.5 square miles of state.
So, if you're in rural Montana (which is the huge majority of Montana) and some shit goes down, best case scenario the math says you're within three and a half miles of a fish counter or maybe a Justice Accountant. Much more likely, you're miles and miles from anyone with a badge and have to hope a helpful local stumbles across you, because if you're not near a city you're probably just as far from a cell tower. And you better hope those "helpful" locals aren't members of one of the groups of crazies that have a history of months-long standoffs with law enforcement.
81 fuckin' days, y'all. During which they were offering bounties on Federal Judges and such.
I think Montana might be too outlandish for FarCry, not the other way around.
well I certainly hope everyone's belief is sufficiently suspended
Oh thank god. I was dreading it thinking they were going to reform the games traditional over the top action into something more subdued and survival-like. If it's just the previous far cry games in a new setting with new features, I'm so in. There better be a shit ton of crafting!
yeah, i had no worries that they were gonna change up the formula. least not to such a drastic extent anyway. people give give Ubisoft a hard time about their open world games being so similar, but each series has its own feel and tone even if they are mechanically similar at times and Far Cry means mayhem.
In a change for the series, you can choose to play as a man or woman and pick your skin color. You’re a junior deputy on the police force, though how you wound up in Hope County is a secret. At Far Cry 5’s press event in New York, Hay talked reporters through the opening events of the game on condition we wouldn’t report it… presumably because Ubisoft wants to save that for an E3 demo or something. Far Cry 4’s Hutchinson had said at E3 2013 that the team on that game was very close to including the option to play as a woman in that game. This sequel finally delivers that option.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Still waiting on Dan "Man of his Word" Ryckert to eat a hat
Montana is 147,040 mi². FarCry 3's map is about 310 mi² (according to this guy), and FarCry 4's is about the same. So if you're talking about "that much area control" in Montana, yeah, I can believe a sovereign nation / white supremacist cult could take over 0.2% of Montana and get away with it inside this political climate. Sure, that's about 7x the size of Billings, Montana - but Montana has a population density of 6.5 people per square mile. So figure 2,015 people in those 310 mi². Wikipedia says there are about 100,000 sovereign citizens in the US. Could five percent of them gather up the ~$108mil needed to buy ~198,400 acres in Montana? Sure. Sheldon Adelson donated almost that much to the Trump campaign in 2016.
The existence of large areas populated by just one religious group doesn't really sway things, because the issue here is a large religious group that's murder-happy.
The Branch Davidians would have been able to go about their lives for much longer if they hadn't had a box of weapons illegally shipped via UPS.
Being murder-happy is only a problem if the people being murdered are reported as missing / murdered bodies are found. There are tons of historic examples of groups like the ones we're discussing preventing that sort of info from getting out. Also, assume a complicit police force.
But again, none of these groups were Far Cry map-big, at least not in the United States. Plus, the Branch Davidians weren't taken down by the local police force -- they attracted the attention of the ATF. All on just 77 acres.
...yeah dude, they were. Large scale insular religious institutions flourish in the US, and while they're not all malicious, most of them have documented cases of murder or abuse that's covered up by a sympatheticlocal authority (government, police, etc).
The Davidians only attracted Federal attention because of shipping illegal weapons via UPS. Strike that part, put 'em in an area where you're more likely to get attacked by a cougar than meet another person, and you really think that they're going to attract significant attention? Keep in mind our President refused to reject the endorsement of David fucking Duke.
Our country has an ugly, ugly history of turning a blind eye when those in power don't care to stop something. See: Andrew Jackson, Japanese internment, etc, etc
Which is true, but this kind of thing wouldn't happen in modern times when we have an organized response to anything large scale happening almost instantly. As mentioned above, religious cults tend to be run out of areas if things start getting weird, and that's even before anyone gets murdered. The only modern scenario even close to what Far Cry 5 is doing is the Branch Davidians, and they got shut down quick when they started getting dangerous. And in that case that was shipping guns, not even shooting people as in this game.
So we have the game's official scenario, which is that the doomsday cult decides to take over the county. Which totally works for maybe a day, and then you start wondering when our country's military would show up and tackle something so brazen and loud. Ah well, maybe they have a reason for why the national guard wouldn't drop hundreds of troops via helicopter the next day?
cloudeagle on
Switch: 3947-4890-9293
0
BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
The body slamming politician got elected in Montana tonight.
Ubisoft viral marketing has gone too far
jesus fucking Christ
this country is officially a shithole
Not that I'm really looking to stick up for Montana here, but on average less than 40% of people in MT vote on an actual election day, the majority of people vote via mail-in ballots, sometimes weeks in advance of the actual day.
Gianforte assaulting Ben Jacobs might have caused a decent bump in election day voting in places like Missoula or Helena, but nearly 7 in 10 people in MT's most populous county (Yellowstone, home of Billings) already had their R vote cast by last week.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
All the mention of the mystic shit in 3 and 4 makes me wonder if it'll be in 5 at all, or if they'll stick with a harder setting.
I think the mystic stuff will come from either Native Americans in the area, like the Crow or Blackfoot or Salish & Kootenai, or it will come from some sort of Satanist Goth Girl (seriously, if there isn't some goth girl who only partly understands that magic is real in her world, I'm going to give this game a 0/10).
If the cult subverts the local government structure, Posse Comitatus makes it difficult for the federal government to intervene.
From the linked article:
There are a number of situations in which the Act does not apply. These include:
Army and Air National Guard units and state defense forces while under the authority of the governor of a state;
Federal military personnel used in accordance to the Insurrection Act, as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles riots.
Under 18 U.S.C. § 831, the Attorney General may request that the Secretary of Defense provide emergency assistance if domestic law enforcement is inadequate to address certain types of threats involving the release of nuclear materials, such as potential use of a nuclear or radiological weapon. Such assistance may be by any personnel under the authority of the Department of Defense, provided such assistance does not adversely affect U.S. military preparedness. The only exemption is nuclear materials.
Support roles under the Joint Special Operations Command
Enforcement of federal law at the discretion of the President of the United States, such as with the 101st Airborne Division by President Eisenhower to integrate Little Rock Central High School in 1957.
I'd think an armed takeover of a county would go beyond the usual prohibition on using federal resources for domestic policy enforcement. Plus the National Guard is exempt.
Posts
But it does get made in places that tend to have conveniently placed explosive red barrels...
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Still waiting on Dan "Man of his Word" Ryckert to eat a hat
Oh, so it's fine if they break the law, as long as it's not straight-up murder?
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Being murder-happy is only a problem if the people being murdered are reported as missing / murdered bodies are found. There are tons of historic examples of groups like the ones we're discussing preventing that sort of info from getting out. Also, assume a complicit police force.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
But again, none of these groups were Far Cry map-big, at least not in the United States. Plus, the Branch Davidians weren't taken down by the local police force -- they attracted the attention of the ATF. All on just 77 acres.
think there was something about the Ubi crew looking into local folk lore when first scouting the location, so should still get some weirdness i think.
Native American stuff was my first though, but it seems too obvious.
The twist of the game should be that you're an even worse kind of cultist, and you get your sick powers from sacrificing dudes to Hastur.
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
The Davidians only attracted Federal attention because of shipping illegal weapons via UPS. Strike that part, put 'em in an area where you're more likely to get attacked by a cougar than meet another person, and you really think that they're going to attract significant attention? Keep in mind our President refused to reject the endorsement of David fucking Duke.
Our country has an ugly, ugly history of turning a blind eye when those in power don't care to stop something. See: Andrew Jackson, Japanese internment, etc, etc
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
And that's with being - in the eyes of the locals - a bunch of weirdos who wore orange turbans and were led by an Indian guru. There was SUBSTANTIAL community opposition to the place is what I'm getting at there.
A bunch of Christians in Montana buying up what amounts to a big ranch? Locals would not bat an eye - and from the hands-off treatment the Bundys got when they took over a nature reserve here, I am not so sanguine that the Federal government would give a damn either.
So, far-fetched yes but not an absolutely insane prospect.
This amuses me.
Second: if you have, as an adult, seen Cars and not wondered to yourself "...but do they fuck?" then you weren't paying attention. That series is wrong.
The buildings were clearly designed for people, but there are none. WHERE DID THE PEOPLE GO?!
The PNW and mountain west states are mindbogglingly huge, when compared to most other states/countries. NW ID had an actual Nazi encampment, a large one, for years and years until a delightfully ironic legal verdict.
You could drop a giant compound full of anything in the middle of MT, and most people in the state wouldn't even know it was there, let alone know if they got shooty.
That was more of a reply to the post before mine and a jab at your current President and Republicans.
The Mormon Church owns 237 square miles of land in Montana. Ted Turner owns 232 square miles, and is a huge weirdo. Some family named frickin' Galt of all things owns 387 square miles of Montana. In all three cases (and the case of virtually every sizeable landowner in the state), the huge majority of this land is essentially empty and used as pasture for cattle.
The state also includes over 15,000 square miles of Native American Reservations. Total state area is 147,000 square miles. That's almost three New Yorks, or three and a half Virginias.
There are maybe 20,000 cops in Montana. Counting everything from Highway Patrol to local cops ahnd sheriff's deputies to state DoJ staff and Fish & Game Department employees. That's one for every 7.5 square miles of state.
So, if you're in rural Montana (which is the huge majority of Montana) and some shit goes down, best case scenario the math says you're within three and a half miles of a fish counter or maybe a Justice Accountant. Much more likely, you're miles and miles from anyone with a badge and have to hope a helpful local stumbles across you, because if you're not near a city you're probably just as far from a cell tower. And you better hope those "helpful" locals aren't members of one of the groups of crazies that have a history of months-long standoffs with law enforcement.
81 fuckin' days, y'all. During which they were offering bounties on Federal Judges and such.
I think Montana might be too outlandish for FarCry, not the other way around.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Nowadays though they've purged the more radical members from their ranks and are mostly an organization for search and rescue/disaster relief.
Still though, when I joined the army they did ask me if I or any family were a member and throughout my career I'd still get grilled about it by a Fed from time to time.
well I certainly hope everyone's belief is sufficiently suspended
Insightful!
Ubisoft viral marketing has gone too far
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Gather eight Mullets to craft the top level weapon holster.
jesus fucking Christ
this country is officially a shithole
https://www.polygon.com/features/2017/5/26/15691662/far-cry-5-preview-e3
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Still waiting on Dan "Man of his Word" Ryckert to eat a hat
Which is true, but this kind of thing wouldn't happen in modern times when we have an organized response to anything large scale happening almost instantly. As mentioned above, religious cults tend to be run out of areas if things start getting weird, and that's even before anyone gets murdered. The only modern scenario even close to what Far Cry 5 is doing is the Branch Davidians, and they got shut down quick when they started getting dangerous. And in that case that was shipping guns, not even shooting people as in this game.
So we have the game's official scenario, which is that the doomsday cult decides to take over the county. Which totally works for maybe a day, and then you start wondering when our country's military would show up and tackle something so brazen and loud. Ah well, maybe they have a reason for why the national guard wouldn't drop hundreds of troops via helicopter the next day?
Not that I'm really looking to stick up for Montana here, but on average less than 40% of people in MT vote on an actual election day, the majority of people vote via mail-in ballots, sometimes weeks in advance of the actual day.
Gianforte assaulting Ben Jacobs might have caused a decent bump in election day voting in places like Missoula or Helena, but nearly 7 in 10 people in MT's most populous county (Yellowstone, home of Billings) already had their R vote cast by last week.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
I think the mystic stuff will come from either Native Americans in the area, like the Crow or Blackfoot or Salish & Kootenai, or it will come from some sort of Satanist Goth Girl (seriously, if there isn't some goth girl who only partly understands that magic is real in her world, I'm going to give this game a 0/10).
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Still waiting on Dan "Man of his Word" Ryckert to eat a hat
PICK YOUR SKIN COLOR
YES
YES
YES
From the linked article:
There are a number of situations in which the Act does not apply. These include:
Army and Air National Guard units and state defense forces while under the authority of the governor of a state;
Federal military personnel used in accordance to the Insurrection Act, as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles riots.
Under 18 U.S.C. § 831, the Attorney General may request that the Secretary of Defense provide emergency assistance if domestic law enforcement is inadequate to address certain types of threats involving the release of nuclear materials, such as potential use of a nuclear or radiological weapon. Such assistance may be by any personnel under the authority of the Department of Defense, provided such assistance does not adversely affect U.S. military preparedness. The only exemption is nuclear materials.
Support roles under the Joint Special Operations Command
Enforcement of federal law at the discretion of the President of the United States, such as with the 101st Airborne Division by President Eisenhower to integrate Little Rock Central High School in 1957.
I'd think an armed takeover of a county would go beyond the usual prohibition on using federal resources for domestic policy enforcement. Plus the National Guard is exempt.