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[Uber]: Disrupting Livery Service (And Ethics)

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Oh, and on the topic of surge pricing, there have been reports that Uber has intentionally induced surge pricing.

    who cares? all the non-uber modes of transportation are still available. if uber is a poor deal to a consumer then can't they use one of those?

    So, you're arguing that it's okay that Uber gauges their customers because there are other options?

    That is a spectacularly bad argument.

    how is this "gouging" in this context?

    what does "price gouging" even mean in a market with hundreds of substitution goods?

    They bypass regulations and make money on the difference. It's the usual "silly unions and your standards, I'll sell unregulated labor for half the price!" deal.

    Incenjucar on
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Oh, and on the topic of surge pricing, there have been reports that Uber has intentionally induced surge pricing.

    who cares? all the non-uber modes of transportation are still available. if uber is a poor deal to a consumer then can't they use one of those?

    So, you're arguing that it's okay that Uber gauges their customers because there are other options?

    That is a spectacularly bad argument.

    how is this "gouging" in this context?

    what does "price gouging" even mean in a market with hundreds of substitution goods?

    They bypass regulations and make money on the difference. It's the usual "silly unions and your standards, I'll sell unregulated labor for half the price!" deal.

    That doesn't apply to the surge pricing though, which is what people were talking about.

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  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    My biggest problem with Uber is that they are willing to break the law intentionally, and/or try to deflect any law breaking on the drivers.

    This happened recently here in Amsterdam, where you have to a taxi license (Which costs a fee, but they are not limited in any way), and you have to get special insurance for your vehicle and the passenger (If you use a personal vehicle insurance and then earn money as a taxi you are not insured and breaking the law).
    And then the drivers have to pay taxes on the income, otherwise it is unfair competition. But Uber doesn't employ their drivers directly.

    Uber basically says "we trust our drivers to be in compliance with all law" and then proceeds to do no screening.

    So both tax inspectors and taxi licence inspectors got a few rides and surprisingly, they were riding around without paying taxes, without a taxi license, and without being insured as a professional chauffeur.

    And what does Uber do? Go on the offensive and complain about the laws.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Is there a reason Uber drivers aren't all being fined or arrested?

  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Is there a reason Uber drivers aren't all being fined or arrested?

    Generally (and this varies from one city to the next) taxi regulations are different for drivers that pick up street hails and drivers that are dispatched by phone-in services, and Uber counts as the latter because of how their service works.

    edit: that said, I don't generally take cabs of any kind

    Daedalus on
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Is there a reason Uber drivers aren't all being fined or arrested?

    Well, at least in the US, the laws on what they were doing are a lot murkier, or non-existent.
    They do tend to, after a while, either get run out of town or new laws are passed putting more restrictions on them.

    Aioua on
    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
    LadyGreeper
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Is there a reason Uber drivers aren't all being fined or arrested?
    Over here at least they were fined, but Uber itself claimed no liability. Passengers could've asked to view insurance and taxi licenses and left ratings if they were not present, and the drivers should have known the law.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    SanderJK wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Is there a reason Uber drivers aren't all being fined or arrested?
    Over here at least they were fined, but Uber itself claimed no liability.

    Okay, now that's some bullshit.

    Caulk Bite 6
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    Note that this will no doubt go to court,

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
    Daedalus
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Is there a reason Uber drivers aren't all being fined or arrested?

    Here in Madison the police do sting operations occasionally where, at the end of the operation, the drivers come away with about $1500 in fines.

    They're also a much more expensive and slower service than any of the actual taxi companies available here, and the only people who use it are out-of-towners that think it's a great service because it generally is a great service where they're from.

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited November 2014
    1) My best friend was raped by a cab driver and the cab company denied any responsibility because the cab driver was classified as an independent contractor. When Valleywag reiterates that an Uber driver has assaulted a customer, my first thought is, "Okay, so how is that different from any other cab company?"

    2) I've had a cab dispatch who was a no-show, a cab driver who admitted after five minutes of driving that he didn't know where he was going, and drove in circles rather than let me give him directions, and several cab drivers who were late anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes. I will accept surge pricing any day of the week if it means I reliably get a car.

    3) I have a close friend who is an Uber driver. He wishes that the pay was higher and that the driver-side app worked better, but he likes the flexible hours and the easy (though relatively low) money. He's undervalued, but he is not abused or mistreated by Uber.

    There are legitimate beefs with Uber's low pay for drivers, regarding how little financial responsibility Uber accepts for their service, and legitimate privacy concerns with their use of location information.

    But I find the Valleywagging about Uber to be myopic and rife with confirmation bias. Traditional medallion cab services are unreliable, unethical, corrupt, and rent-seeking in almost every big city. Uber's service, despite its flaws, is head and shoulders superior to any medallion cab I've ever used.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    SanderJK wrote: »
    This happened recently here in Amsterdam, where you have to a taxi license (Which costs a fee, but they are not limited in any way), and you have to get special insurance for your vehicle and the passenger (If you use a personal vehicle insurance and then earn money as a taxi you are not insured and breaking the law).
    And then the drivers have to pay taxes on the income, otherwise it is unfair competition. But Uber doesn't employ their drivers directly.

    Uber basically says "we trust our drivers to be in compliance with all law" and then proceeds to do no screening.

    So both tax inspectors and taxi licence inspectors got a few rides and surprisingly, they were riding around without paying taxes, without a taxi license, and without being insured as a professional chauffeur.

    And what does Uber do? Go on the offensive and complain about the laws.

    I will point out here that in San Francisco and New York City, taxi medallions are limited. A major reason they're limited is because taxi unions want to keep them limited. Medallions are resellable, and they fetch obscene prices on the secondary market.

    If medallions were available to anybody for a reasonable fee in these critical markets, then Uber and Lyft would not have gained the foothold they have.

    Consequently, I take a very dim view of taxi companies and taxi unions attempting to further regulate their way out of competition.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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  • LadyGreeperLadyGreeper Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    syndalis wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Oh, and on the topic of surge pricing, there have been reports that Uber has intentionally induced surge pricing.

    who cares? all the non-uber modes of transportation are still available. if uber is a poor deal to a consumer then can't they use one of those?

    This is my biggest break point with AH on this topic.

    The way he discusses uber it leads me to think he sees it as a public/municipal service and not a private/publicly traded business.

    I can disagree with a lot of their pricing tactics but still know that what they are doing is well within their rights as a business establishing competitive price points.

    This is really key in my opinion. Taxis are typically regulated by Public Utilities Commissions, and for good reason. Cab drivers point out that Uber is a little classist - what about people who can only pay cash, or government assistance vouchers? What about people who can't afford smartphones?

    But when cabs are using these arguments, they're assuming that Uber could entirely push cabs out of business. But as anyone who has tried to hail or phone a cab in a busy city knows, taxi supply is nowhere near where the demand needs to be. You PAXers won't be surprised to know that there are only 688 taxis in Seattle, and a new medallion hasn't been issued since 1990. Those 688 cabs aren't going anywhere, no matter how well Uber does. They just come in to serve some of those extra people (and keep some drunk drivers off the road). Not to mention that many of the people using Uber are people who would never think of using cabs because of their terrible reputation with people in our generation.

    So ride-sharing apps are exactly not public services. They are a private company that offers an alternative to busses, taxis, etc, which are (and probably should be) tightly regulated and price capped. In my opinion, a private company has a right to charge what its customers are willing to pay, as long as they are upfront about it.

    LadyGreeper on
    Feral
  • ArchangleArchangle Registered User regular
    Here's a question - there's a number of comments here saying that the Uber (and presumably Lyft et al.) service is much better than traditional taxi service. But why?

    It's relatively well documented that Uber does relatively little screening, has a cavalier attitude to customer complaints, and most taxi services in major cities have some kind of GPS link with the head office to track the status of the vehicle. But Syndalis gave the example that in 100+ Uber rides only 3 were "bad" - and while the resolution of those bad rides was much better by Uber, the fact that these experiences were so rare is more important.

    Is the "driver feedback" mechanism REALLY that powerful, or is this a case of where the early adopter drivers are the "good" one dissatisfied with their previous employer and the "bad" drivers will eventually follow them into the market? (which would also account for the glowing praise by Uber drivers)

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Archangle wrote: »
    Here's a question - there's a number of comments here saying that the Uber (and presumably Lyft et al.) service is much better than traditional taxi service. But why?

    It's relatively well documented that Uber does relatively little screening, has a cavalier attitude to customer complaints, and most taxi services in major cities have some kind of GPS link with the head office to track the status of the vehicle. But Syndalis gave the example that in 100+ Uber rides only 3 were "bad" - and while the resolution of those bad rides was much better by Uber, the fact that these experiences were so rare is more important.

    Is the "driver feedback" mechanism REALLY that powerful, or is this a case of where the early adopter drivers are the "good" one dissatisfied with their previous employer and the "bad" drivers will eventually follow them into the market? (which would also account for the glowing praise by Uber drivers)

    Some taxi services in major cities may have some sort of GPS link and fairly modern dispatch, but none of them (to my knowledge) can compare to, in real time, being able to show you in real time how many cars are near you, where they are, your expected response time (which is usually in single-digit minutes), estimated fare, etc. Then show you the GPS of you selected car as it approaches you, in real time, so you know exactly where it is and when it will arrive. That shit is worth money.

    Further, the Uber app pretty much guarantees that every driver will be following a GPS. Which hey, many taxi drivers will too, but many are not required to, and many don't care to, and some will get lost or intentionally rip you. With Uber, you receive a log of your trip after the fact, for your records...you can show that a driver took a non-direct route, and inquire why. The whole trip is GPS-logged.

    I think driver feedback, at least now in the early stages, is powerful. I had two drivers specifically ask me to remember to leave feedback...it seems to matter to them. It hasn't hit the Yelp point yet, and maybe it will, but they actually care about providing a good experience. Low-rated drivers are only matched with low-rated passengers (which is a thing) from my understanding.

    For all the issues, and there are issues, it is a very real improvement in every way over any metro taxi service I've used. Because even if there are abusive aspects in place, what little competition exists (Lyft, etc.) is more than enough to make the "smartphone ride summoning" market more competitive than the taxi market. 688 cabs in Seattle? Well that explains a lot. Not only has it always taken me pretty long to get a cab to pick us up, but the car is often horrid, the driver rude, and the entire experience terrible...because by law there is no fucking competition. So if Uber is the ultra-libertarian pushback alternative, I'll say this...it beats the ever-living fuck out of our current super-regulated status quo. Uber is powerful, and straight wrecking cabs in overall average customer satisfaction, because cabs suck. Because they can. Because in most relevant markets, they had no competition, ever, forever. They were a rolling DMV.

    Wait....can Uber create an alternative DMV?

    FeralElvenshaeMrMisterprogramjunkieProfsCambiata
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Cabs are not required to have any kind of GPS tracking in most US markets.

    In the few markets where GPS tracking has been piloted, cab drivers have fought tooth and nail against them, claiming they violate privacy rights or that the devices are too expensive.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Cab drivers also commit tax fraud, just FYI. That square app that they use? When they totally subvert the in=place payment system they have? Yeah they're probably not reporting that.

    tyrannus on
    redx
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Reading this I'm mostly wondering how shitty your people's taxi service is. Like wtf?

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Reading this I'm mostly wondering how shitty your people's taxi service is. Like wtf?

    America is pretty bad at anything transportation-related.

    Irony.

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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited November 2014
    shryke wrote: »
    Reading this I'm mostly wondering how shitty your people's taxi service is. Like wtf?

    In the US, there's a distinction between livery and taxi services. A livery service is any service that picks up and drops off passengers at a prearranged place and time. A taxi service can do that, but they also have exclusive privileges to pick people up off the sidewalk and provide service to airports.

    Uber and Lyft stretch the law by claiming livery service, because they're not picking people up off the sidewalk, they're picking people up who used an app (who just happened to be standing on the sidewalk in need of an immediate ride).

    I've never had problems with livery services. Now, I'm just a simple husky and not an economonomonist, but I suspect this is because there's real competition for livery services, while taxi cabs have successfully lobbied for artificial scarcity.

    Uber just happens to be a livery service supported by awesome technology. If Uber licensed their tech out to other livery services, that to me would be the best of both worlds.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    HeirCambiataRear Admiral Choco
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Reading this I'm mostly wondering how shitty your people's taxi service is. Like wtf?

    America is pretty bad at anything transportation-related.

    Irony.

    our developed industrial railway system is pretty fucking A-Class.

    Elvenshae
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Reading this I'm mostly wondering how shitty your people's taxi service is. Like wtf?

    America is pretty bad at anything transportation-related.

    Irony.

    our developed industrial railway system is pretty fucking A-Class.

    Our passenger rail system, on the other hand ...

    omgbfz5lzi1s.png
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  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Reading this I'm mostly wondering how shitty your people's taxi service is. Like wtf?

    America is pretty bad at anything transportation-related.

    Irony.

    our developed industrial railway system is pretty fucking A-Class.

    Our passenger rail system, on the other hand ...
    well they can take an Uber

    FeralElvenshaeRMS OceanichanzoJusticeforPlutoHacksawTurkey
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Reading this I'm mostly wondering how shitty your people's taxi service is. Like wtf?

    DC cabs used to operate in a "zone system." The city (and outlying suburbs) were divided up into various regions, and the amount you paid was based on some combination of what zone you started in, what zone you ended in, and how many zones you crossed to get there.

    I used to have meetings downtown at L'Enfant Plaza several times a month, and would take the exact same route - across the river to I-66, I-66 to my office - afterwards. This went on for several years.

    I don't think I ever had a cabbie charge me the same amount twice at all, let alone twice in a row.

    omgbfz5lzi1s.png
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  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Don't despair. Not even over the fact that you don't despair.Registered User regular
    so - one of the problems with the new round of tech services (the sharing economy?) is the the tech-bros who make it have figured out a great idea, can pay other tech-bros to implement it, and then wham bam they're done. It seems like they're so enamored with the 'this is such a glaring problem and we can solve it with technology' idea, that when real life starts to get in the way they sort of get hostile towards it.

    like uber deliberately sidestepping any liability for their drivers, or openly flouting the law. I've noticed this with some of the objections to air bnb. It's such a great idea, but then there's a whole bunch of liability issues when you turn your apartment into a hotel. What if the guest gets hurt? or hurts your neighbor? or parties real loud and makes everyone in the apartment miserable, and they don't even live in the apartment. I don't know for sure, but I imagine air bnb will similarly take a step back and deny liability when their brilliant idea, like all brilliant ideas, have unforeseen consequences.

    I like uber and I've used it before, but the attitude of some of the tech guys who run these sorts of things seems vaguely unsettling. But the old system has a ton of problems too. I dunno!

    Elki wrote: »

    Casual Eddy: best poster 2014.
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Casual Eddy: best poster of 2015

    gotta update that stuff man
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  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Don't despair. Not even over the fact that you don't despair.Registered User regular
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Reading this I'm mostly wondering how shitty your people's taxi service is. Like wtf?

    America is pretty bad at anything transportation-related.

    Irony.

    our developed industrial railway system is pretty fucking A-Class.

    highways are pretty good

    Elki wrote: »

    Casual Eddy: best poster 2014.
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Casual Eddy: best poster of 2015

    gotta update that stuff man
    ElvenshaeMrMister
  • ArchangleArchangle Registered User regular
    But the majority of Uber drivers used to work for taxi companies, correct? I know that there are some new drivers who came in when Uber
    did, but the majority are drawn from the same pool of drivers that everyone is complaining about.

    Are they really exactly the same drivers and the Uber app is reforming these previously-terrible drivers, or is it a case that there is some kind of early adopter selection going on? Because the first is pretty sustainable, the second less so when more shitty drivers start registering for Uber.

    Julius
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Reading this I'm mostly wondering how shitty your people's taxi service is. Like wtf?

    America is pretty bad at anything transportation-related.

    Irony.

    our developed industrial railway system is pretty fucking A-Class.

    highways are pretty good

    Crumbling infrastructure etc etc.

    Polaritie
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Don't despair. Not even over the fact that you don't despair.Registered User regular
    I think it's a few things. They're supposed to earn more, it's easier to report bad behavior. Drivers can also rate customers and avoid bad ones, in theory. Tip is included in the fee so you don't have to worry about people pretending they don't know what a tip is. One surprisingly big thing is that the driver always has gps on through the uber app which is not always the case with yellow cabs (I'm in NYC). And since you dropped a pin saying exactly where you want to go, the gps gives the driver an idea of where to go, whereas yellow cab drivers will feign ignornance or be actually ignorant of where brooklyn is.

    I will say that the vast majority of my yellow cab experiences have been fine, although it seems like uber drivers are a little less cranky because it's a little easier for them to do their jobs for the above reasons.

    Elki wrote: »

    Casual Eddy: best poster 2014.
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Casual Eddy: best poster of 2015

    gotta update that stuff man
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Feral wrote: »
    In the US, there's a distinction between livery and taxi services. A livery service is any service that picks up and drops off passengers at a prearranged place and time. A taxi service can do that, but they also have exclusive privileges to pick people up off the sidewalk and provide service to airports.

    I think this is where the disconnect is for me and probably a good portion of the country. Here what you call a taxi service is illegal and you can not hail a cab on the street, and what you refer to as livery is our taxi service. All cab pickups are pre-arranged through a dispatcher and all cabs have gps that is tracked.

    Your issues with a regular cab company are probably very much "big city" problems which can change your view of what Uber/Lyft are doing, while others such as hedgie and I look at the companies through a very different perspective.

    Veevee on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I think it's a few things. They're supposed to earn more, it's easier to report bad behavior. Drivers can also rate customers and avoid bad ones, in theory. Tip is included in the fee so you don't have to worry about people pretending they don't know what a tip is. One surprisingly big thing is that the driver always has gps on through the uber app which is not always the case with yellow cabs (I'm in NYC). And since you dropped a pin saying exactly where you want to go, the gps gives the driver an idea of where to go, whereas yellow cab drivers will feign ignornance or be actually ignorant of where brooklyn is.

    I will say that the vast majority of my yellow cab experiences have been fine, although it seems like uber drivers are a little less cranky because it's a little easier for them to do their jobs for the above reasons.

    I am still amazed at the shit you people apparently go through.

    I don't take a cab that often, but around here there's a big ass meter that's always on, a big ass sticker detailing the exact rate they are allowed to charge and you get in, give the address and they turn the meter on and go and never pretend like they are mentally deficient.

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  • ArchangleArchangle Registered User regular
    Tip is included in the fee so you don't have to worry about people pretending they don't know what a tip is.
    Ooh, that'll be nice. I could've used it when I was in LA 2 weeks ago and tipping like a drunken sailor because I had 3 hours sleep and couldn't be bothered with change.

    I felt incredibly bad after my first trip to the US as an adult where I got a cab in Colorado and tried to make it as clear as I possibly could that he should keep an appropriate tip from the notes I gave him. I know legally taxi drivers can't take their own tip, so thinking about it afterwards I'm pretty sure he did the right thing and got stiffed for it.

  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Don't despair. Not even over the fact that you don't despair.Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I think it's a few things. They're supposed to earn more, it's easier to report bad behavior. Drivers can also rate customers and avoid bad ones, in theory. Tip is included in the fee so you don't have to worry about people pretending they don't know what a tip is. One surprisingly big thing is that the driver always has gps on through the uber app which is not always the case with yellow cabs (I'm in NYC). And since you dropped a pin saying exactly where you want to go, the gps gives the driver an idea of where to go, whereas yellow cab drivers will feign ignornance or be actually ignorant of where brooklyn is.

    I will say that the vast majority of my yellow cab experiences have been fine, although it seems like uber drivers are a little less cranky because it's a little easier for them to do their jobs for the above reasons.

    I am still amazed at the shit you people apparently go through.

    I don't take a cab that often, but around here there's a big ass meter that's always on, a big ass sticker detailing the exact rate they are allowed to charge and you get in, give the address and they turn the meter on and go and never pretend like they are mentally deficient.

    Oh, yellow cabs are highly regulated. It's one of trade offs - they have a monopoly, but they do actually provide pretty good service. There is a department of the government in nyc where you can formally lodge a complaint, and x number of complaints will cause the driver to lose his job.

    You do have a clear meter, clear medallion number, and clear identification. Trips to the airport are a flat fee, and tourists are specifically warned to only get in a yellow cab since hey are the only ones that can pick up passengers on the street.

    Keep in mind this is only in NYC though, other cities tend to have much less regulated cabs and rely on livery more.

    The cab drivers themselves can be irritating, but there are avenues in which you can lodge complaints.

    Elki wrote: »

    Casual Eddy: best poster 2014.
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Casual Eddy: best poster of 2015

    gotta update that stuff man
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Don't despair. Not even over the fact that you don't despair.Registered User regular
    You can also use uber to call a yellow cab in nyc which tend to be cheaper than uber cars

    Elki wrote: »

    Casual Eddy: best poster 2014.
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Casual Eddy: best poster of 2015

    gotta update that stuff man
    Heir
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Since I know it's coming: Surge Pricing! Evil capitalist ploy? or Revolutionary free market golden child?

    I'm on the side of surge pricing being dangerous and exploitative After about 3x.

    I think Uber has a responsibility to the safety of their passengers and drivers to not try and entice drivers onto the road during a snowstorm with 7x or 8x pricing, and in turn passengers in need of a ride shouldn't be bent over a barrel at rates like that just because uber can.

    I would rather there be no cars on the road then that.

    i hadn't really thought about it that way. i guess i'd be supportive of straight-up blackouts if safety is a concern.

    in general, though, the idea that high multiples would incent more taxis at scarce times/ locations is IMO an elegant solution to the problem.

    I'm not familiar with the internal rules that Uber drivers follow; are they somehow required to be on the road by the company or is it just money/rating incentives?

    Like, if a person wants to make bank by taking a risky job, I don't feel like it's my place to tell him that he can't. Accepting some risk of bodily harm is something that should go into what a person makes.

    If there's a cap on surge pricing related to safety it means that there are fewer options available to people who may legit need transportation (maybe transport is safer than no transport?) AND there are fewer options available to people who need money.

    2ezikn6.jpg
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    that wasn't worth saying twice

    Loren Michael on
    2ezikn6.jpg
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    You can also use uber to call a yellow cab in nyc which tend to be cheaper than uber cars

    The recent uberX price drop makes that a bit of a wash once you factor tip in, and users are almost guaranteed to have working air conditioning and maybe bottles water.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Since I know it's coming: Surge Pricing! Evil capitalist ploy? or Revolutionary free market golden child?

    I'm on the side of surge pricing being dangerous and exploitative After about 3x.

    I think Uber has a responsibility to the safety of their passengers and drivers to not try and entice drivers onto the road during a snowstorm with 7x or 8x pricing, and in turn passengers in need of a ride shouldn't be bent over a barrel at rates like that just because uber can.

    I would rather there be no cars on the road then that.

    i hadn't really thought about it that way. i guess i'd be supportive of straight-up blackouts if safety is a concern.

    in general, though, the idea that high multiples would incent more taxis at scarce times/ locations is IMO an elegant solution to the problem.

    I'm not familiar with the internal rules that Uber drivers follow; are they somehow required to be on the road by the company or is it just money/rating incentives?

    Like, if a person wants to make bank by taking a risky job, I don't feel like it's my place to tell him that he can't. Accepting some risk of bodily harm is something that should go into what a person makes.

    If there's a cap on surge pricing related to safety it means that there are fewer options available to people who may legit need transportation (maybe transport is safer than no transport?) AND there are fewer options available to people who need money.

    That assumes that the surge pricing has an effect on the number of drivers on the road past a certain point.

  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Since I know it's coming: Surge Pricing! Evil capitalist ploy? or Revolutionary free market golden child?

    I'm on the side of surge pricing being dangerous and exploitative After about 3x.

    I think Uber has a responsibility to the safety of their passengers and drivers to not try and entice drivers onto the road during a snowstorm with 7x or 8x pricing, and in turn passengers in need of a ride shouldn't be bent over a barrel at rates like that just because uber can.

    I would rather there be no cars on the road then that.

    i hadn't really thought about it that way. i guess i'd be supportive of straight-up blackouts if safety is a concern.

    in general, though, the idea that high multiples would incent more taxis at scarce times/ locations is IMO an elegant solution to the problem.

    I'm not familiar with the internal rules that Uber drivers follow; are they somehow required to be on the road by the company or is it just money/rating incentives?

    Like, if a person wants to make bank by taking a risky job, I don't feel like it's my place to tell him that he can't. Accepting some risk of bodily harm is something that should go into what a person makes.

    If there's a cap on surge pricing related to safety it means that there are fewer options available to people who may legit need transportation (maybe transport is safer than no transport?) AND there are fewer options available to people who need money.

    That assumes that the surge pricing has an effect on the number of drivers on the road past a certain point.

    how do you figure?

    keeping surge pricing available puts an incentive in place and keeps the option available, for the drivers (to offer their services) and to the passengers second (if the drivers are given incentive to make themselves available)

    capping surge pricing takes that incentive away

    2ezikn6.jpg
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Since I know it's coming: Surge Pricing! Evil capitalist ploy? or Revolutionary free market golden child?

    I'm on the side of surge pricing being dangerous and exploitative After about 3x.

    I think Uber has a responsibility to the safety of their passengers and drivers to not try and entice drivers onto the road during a snowstorm with 7x or 8x pricing, and in turn passengers in need of a ride shouldn't be bent over a barrel at rates like that just because uber can.

    I would rather there be no cars on the road then that.

    i hadn't really thought about it that way. i guess i'd be supportive of straight-up blackouts if safety is a concern.

    in general, though, the idea that high multiples would incent more taxis at scarce times/ locations is IMO an elegant solution to the problem.

    I'm not familiar with the internal rules that Uber drivers follow; are they somehow required to be on the road by the company or is it just money/rating incentives?

    Like, if a person wants to make bank by taking a risky job, I don't feel like it's my place to tell him that he can't. Accepting some risk of bodily harm is something that should go into what a person makes.

    If there's a cap on surge pricing related to safety it means that there are fewer options available to people who may legit need transportation (maybe transport is safer than no transport?) AND there are fewer options available to people who need money.

    That assumes that the surge pricing has an effect on the number of drivers on the road past a certain point.

    how do you figure?

    keeping surge pricing available puts an incentive in place and keeps the option available, for the drivers (to offer their services) and to the passengers second (if the drivers are given incentive to make themselves available)

    capping surge pricing takes that incentive away

    If you say surge pricing means fewer available options, you are contending that surge pricing has a monotonically increasing effect on supply.

    I don't find this compelling. At some point, you run of people willing, able and prepared to be drivers. And I would bet that happens at alot lower values of pricing then the highs of surge pricing. You are talking about a business opportunity that comes and goes real damn fast. Essentially, there is a hard or at least very rigid cap on the available supply of drivers. Supply moves too slowly here to respond to surge pricing on a continuous basis. Likely the only effect of surge pricing past a low threshold is to reallocate the supply of drivers towards people willing/able to pay more.

    Hell, surge pricing likely almost exclusively comes into play after that point since it's a result of a limited supply of drivers dealing with a large amount of customers.

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