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Dragon Age Thread – Too Many Breeches

24567100

Posts

  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Speaking of non-cinematic conversations, they suck. I like them for merchants and the generic investigation chats with followers, and the banter responses are fantastic, but it removes a lot of impact for other conversations in the world when you can't see faces.

    Well, those more cinematic scenes cost more time/money probably why you don't get them for scenes where a lady asks you to get her 10 bear hides.

    Yup but it sure doesn't help me care about the shitty quest for 10 bear hides. Too many shitty quests, not enough of the engaging cinematic action. The open world could stand to be toned down a tad.

    ...You know you can just beeline through the story. The amount of power you need is actually quite small compared to how much you accumulate(hell, I'm sitting on 200 power right now myself and only need 40).

    I mean I just don't understand complaining about completely optional content.
    It being optional doesn't make is any less bad. I'd rather those resources be put to use elsewhere.

    Bad content is bad content, optional or not. And when you front load a huge pile of bad content into the Hinterlands it provides an awful experience for a lot of players that is not representative of the game at large.

    Except its not bad content. Its interesting, explorable content that enlarges the world and gives it life and feeling beyond what your character does. Different people like different things. I, personally, loved the Hinterlands. I found it to be a great introduction to the game and how it works. It was beautiful to explore, there were constantly interesting things I was running across, and it made the world feel larger and more alive to me. At no point did I think "God, this is boring" or "God, this is bad." I spent a good 20 hours in the Hinterlands and loved every moment of it. Cutting that out would be a massive detriment to the game and make it significantly worse.

    Here's the thing, your opinions are not fact. You may not enjoy it, and that's fine. But to yell that they should cut it makes you look bad. It makes it seem like your opinion is that if a game is not designed for your tastes, then the game is bad. And that's just arrogant. I'm glad Bioware made the design decisions they did in regards to size, events, and quest structure. I've had more fun with DAI then any other game in the last two years.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Speaking of non-cinematic conversations, they suck. I like them for merchants and the generic investigation chats with followers, and the banter responses are fantastic, but it removes a lot of impact for other conversations in the world when you can't see faces.

    Well, those more cinematic scenes cost more time/money probably why you don't get them for scenes where a lady asks you to get her 10 bear hides.

    Yup but it sure doesn't help me care about the shitty quest for 10 bear hides. Too many shitty quests, not enough of the engaging cinematic action. The open world could stand to be toned down a tad.

    ...You know you can just beeline through the story. The amount of power you need is actually quite small compared to how much you accumulate(hell, I'm sitting on 200 power right now myself and only need 40).

    I mean I just don't understand complaining about completely optional content.
    It being optional doesn't make is any less bad. I'd rather those resources be put to use elsewhere.

    Towards what exactly?

    I ask because people always use that "resources elsewhere" line but I wonder where you feel these resources should have gone.
    Anything? There are people who had to make that really boring content. If I had my druthers, they would instead be working on content that wasn't boring. Writing/designing a quest with meaning or depth. Make existing content better instead of populating the world with garbage?

    But...the game...has a lot of good content. I mean the story quest are pretty great, so are the companions, and even like some of the books lying around.
    Right, so why not spend your limited budget (Time/Humans/Money) on something not boring and half-hearted?

    Better yet, how about they make less throw-away content, and use that extra time/humans/money to properly QA their game?

    I don't really know if I'd call the content half-hearted.

    I guess its a matter of taste but I've been through a few dungeons with texts/stories I've found interesting.

    Sure it isn't as flashy as the main stuff but, eh...I guess I just like exploring.

    As for the QA stuff...I mean I don't think that's how games are compartmentalized. The writers aren't going to be spending a lot of time QAing I think.

    Dragkonias on
  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Another mechanics question. Are the regional requisition table quests simply a resources to power dump?
    I mean there's no other impact from me having created a venom antidote or dwarven puzzle box other than I got +1 power etc right?
    If so I think I'd probably rather hang onto some of this stuff.

    akajaybay on
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    akajaybay wrote: »
    Another mechanics question. Are the regional requisition table quests simply a resources to power dump?
    I mean there's no other impact from me having created a venom antidote or dwarven puzzle box other than I got +1 power etc right?
    If so I think I'd probably rather hand onto some of this stuff.

    Yep, it isn't worth it. Just a way to get power.

    I did enough for the achievement then I left it alone.

  • BassguyBassguy Ghost Ride the Dragon Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Speaking of non-cinematic conversations, they suck. I like them for merchants and the generic investigation chats with followers, and the banter responses are fantastic, but it removes a lot of impact for other conversations in the world when you can't see faces.

    Well, those more cinematic scenes cost more time/money probably why you don't get them for scenes where a lady asks you to get her 10 bear hides.

    Yup but it sure doesn't help me care about the shitty quest for 10 bear hides. Too many shitty quests, not enough of the engaging cinematic action. The open world could stand to be toned down a tad.

    ...You know you can just beeline through the story. The amount of power you need is actually quite small compared to how much you accumulate(hell, I'm sitting on 200 power right now myself and only need 40).

    I mean I just don't understand complaining about completely optional content.
    It being optional doesn't make is any less bad. I'd rather those resources be put to use elsewhere.

    Towards what exactly?

    I ask because people always use that "resources elsewhere" line but I wonder where you feel these resources should have gone.
    Anything? There are people who had to make that really boring content. If I had my druthers, they would instead be working on content that wasn't boring. Writing/designing a quest with meaning or depth. Make existing content better instead of populating the world with garbage?

    But...the game...has a lot of good content. I mean the story quest are pretty great, so are the companions, and even like some of the books lying around.
    Right, so why not spend your limited budget (Time/Humans/Money) on something not boring and half-hearted?

    Better yet, how about they make less throw-away content, and use that extra time/humans/money to properly QA their game?

    I don't really know if I'd call the content half-hearted.

    I guess its a matter of taste but I've been through a few dungeons with texts I've found interesting.

    Sure it isn't as flashy as the main stuff but, eh...I guess I just like exploring.

    As for the QA stuff...I mean I don't think that's how games are compartmentalized. The writers aren't going to be spending a lot of time QAing I think.
    Collect 10 wyvern testicles seems pretty half-hearted to me. It's designed to be filler content, right? Populate the "open world" with shit to do to justify the larger area.

    Also, if "our production pipeline means we have to spend money on making filler content to keep people employed" is their excuse, there is a longterm issue there.

  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Thread title should have been "Inquisition will be BioWare's apology!"

    Also I think I might restart (50 hours in). Knight Enchanter is OP, but its not really. . .fun? Maybe I'm just getting waylaid by the AI here, and would have the exact same issue if I went Necro or Rift Mage.

    I just wish there were an option like the Arcane Warrior from DA:O - proper Mage Tank.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    Does anyone have any input on the Throwing Blades skill for Rogues? Is it an AoE armor sunder like it sounds like?

    // Steam: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Speaking of non-cinematic conversations, they suck. I like them for merchants and the generic investigation chats with followers, and the banter responses are fantastic, but it removes a lot of impact for other conversations in the world when you can't see faces.

    Well, those more cinematic scenes cost more time/money probably why you don't get them for scenes where a lady asks you to get her 10 bear hides.

    Yup but it sure doesn't help me care about the shitty quest for 10 bear hides. Too many shitty quests, not enough of the engaging cinematic action. The open world could stand to be toned down a tad.

    ...You know you can just beeline through the story. The amount of power you need is actually quite small compared to how much you accumulate(hell, I'm sitting on 200 power right now myself and only need 40).

    I mean I just don't understand complaining about completely optional content.
    It being optional doesn't make is any less bad. I'd rather those resources be put to use elsewhere.

    Towards what exactly?

    I ask because people always use that "resources elsewhere" line but I wonder where you feel these resources should have gone.
    Anything? There are people who had to make that really boring content. If I had my druthers, they would instead be working on content that wasn't boring. Writing/designing a quest with meaning or depth. Make existing content better instead of populating the world with garbage?

    But...the game...has a lot of good content. I mean the story quest are pretty great, so are the companions, and even like some of the books lying around.
    Right, so why not spend your limited budget (Time/Humans/Money) on something not boring and half-hearted?

    Better yet, how about they make less throw-away content, and use that extra time/humans/money to properly QA their game?

    I don't really know if I'd call the content half-hearted.

    I guess its a matter of taste but I've been through a few dungeons with texts I've found interesting.

    Sure it isn't as flashy as the main stuff but, eh...I guess I just like exploring.

    As for the QA stuff...I mean I don't think that's how games are compartmentalized. The writers aren't going to be spending a lot of time QAing I think.
    Collect 10 wyvern testicles seems pretty half-hearted to me. It's designed to be filler content, right? Populate the "open world" with shit to do to justify the larger area.

    Also, if "our production pipeline means we have to spend money on making filler content to keep people employed" is their excuse, there is a longterm issue there.

    Thing isn't all of the quests aren't like that.

    There are plenty of areas in this game that have their own little story going on and aren't tied to the main plot much at all.

    Dragkonias on
  • FalvesFalves Registered User regular
    Beltaine wrote: »
    I'm starting to feel like the game is too big.

    I can't decide if i would be happier with a game that was 20 hours or less so I could run multiple playthroughs or not.

    I played my first character about 12 hours before I thought it'd be cool to see what a different character would play like. I've gone 8 hours with that second character and now I'm thinking about my third and I haven't finished the game with any character yet.

    Welcome to my world...

  • BassguyBassguy Ghost Ride the Dragon Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Speaking of non-cinematic conversations, they suck. I like them for merchants and the generic investigation chats with followers, and the banter responses are fantastic, but it removes a lot of impact for other conversations in the world when you can't see faces.

    Well, those more cinematic scenes cost more time/money probably why you don't get them for scenes where a lady asks you to get her 10 bear hides.

    Yup but it sure doesn't help me care about the shitty quest for 10 bear hides. Too many shitty quests, not enough of the engaging cinematic action. The open world could stand to be toned down a tad.

    ...You know you can just beeline through the story. The amount of power you need is actually quite small compared to how much you accumulate(hell, I'm sitting on 200 power right now myself and only need 40).

    I mean I just don't understand complaining about completely optional content.
    It being optional doesn't make is any less bad. I'd rather those resources be put to use elsewhere.

    Towards what exactly?

    I ask because people always use that "resources elsewhere" line but I wonder where you feel these resources should have gone.
    Anything? There are people who had to make that really boring content. If I had my druthers, they would instead be working on content that wasn't boring. Writing/designing a quest with meaning or depth. Make existing content better instead of populating the world with garbage?

    But...the game...has a lot of good content. I mean the story quest are pretty great, so are the companions, and even like some of the books lying around.
    Right, so why not spend your limited budget (Time/Humans/Money) on something not boring and half-hearted?

    Better yet, how about they make less throw-away content, and use that extra time/humans/money to properly QA their game?

    I don't really know if I'd call the content half-hearted.

    I guess its a matter of taste but I've been through a few dungeons with texts I've found interesting.

    Sure it isn't as flashy as the main stuff but, eh...I guess I just like exploring.

    As for the QA stuff...I mean I don't think that's how games are compartmentalized. The writers aren't going to be spending a lot of time QAing I think.
    Collect 10 wyvern testicles seems pretty half-hearted to me. It's designed to be filler content, right? Populate the "open world" with shit to do to justify the larger area.

    Also, if "our production pipeline means we have to spend money on making filler content to keep people employed" is their excuse, there is a longterm issue there.

    Thing isn't all of the quests aren't like there.

    There are plenty of areas in this game that have their own little story going on and aren't tied to the main plot much at all.
    I agree. There is a good bit of side content that is quite compelling. However, I wish that there was less of the half-hearted stuff, and more of the interesting stuff.

    There are too many "go here, kill thing, collect artifact" missions. I'd like to see more creative quest design. That's all.

  • RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Speaking of non-cinematic conversations, they suck. I like them for merchants and the generic investigation chats with followers, and the banter responses are fantastic, but it removes a lot of impact for other conversations in the world when you can't see faces.

    Well, those more cinematic scenes cost more time/money probably why you don't get them for scenes where a lady asks you to get her 10 bear hides.

    Yup but it sure doesn't help me care about the shitty quest for 10 bear hides. Too many shitty quests, not enough of the engaging cinematic action. The open world could stand to be toned down a tad.

    ...You know you can just beeline through the story. The amount of power you need is actually quite small compared to how much you accumulate(hell, I'm sitting on 200 power right now myself and only need 40).

    I mean I just don't understand complaining about completely optional content.
    It being optional doesn't make is any less bad. I'd rather those resources be put to use elsewhere.

    Bad content is bad content, optional or not. And when you front load a huge pile of bad content into the Hinterlands it provides an awful experience for a lot of players that is not representative of the game at large.

    Except its not bad content. Its interesting, explorable content that enlarges the world and gives it life and feeling beyond what your character does. Different people like different things. I, personally, loved the Hinterlands. I found it to be a great introduction to the game and how it works. It was beautiful to explore, there were constantly interesting things I was running across, and it made the world feel larger and more alive to me. At no point did I think "God, this is boring" or "God, this is bad." I spent a good 20 hours in the Hinterlands and loved every moment of it. Cutting that out would be a massive detriment to the game and make it significantly worse.

    Here's the thing, your opinions are not fact. You may not enjoy it, and that's fine. But to yell that they should cut it makes you look bad. It makes it seem like your opinion is that if a game is not designed for your tastes, then the game is bad. And that's just arrogant. I'm glad Bioware made the design decisions they did in regards to size, events, and quest structure. I've had more fun with DAI then any other game in the last two years.

    Collect 10 Ram Meat, Find Missing Ring(halfway across the map,) and Get This Potion(in five more levels) are pretty shitty quests. There's good stuff out there as well, but you literally barge head first into MMO starter zone quests. They should be front loading quests like "find the Mage/Templar hideouts to stabilize the area" instead of hiding those in letters around the zone, to showcase how the areas dynamically change based on your actions. Tie more early activities into War Room operations to encourage players to return to Haven, and really push the visit to Val Royeaux.

  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    I wouldn't mind the running around if movement through DAI areas weren't predicated on the idea that every 5 steps the player should encounter an impassable barrier that needs to be circumvented by running in a non-intuitive direction to find the path or playing a shitty jumping puzzle.

    In Skyrim you can just decide where you want to run and then pretty much run there. Yeah, there are some mountains and such that can't be directly climbed, but they are obvious and there are as many ways around them as you like.

    In DAI everything is some sort of maze. Just getting from here to there is a physical struggle. I'm in the Exalted Plains right now and it's incredible to me that they took an area named after flat terrain and managed to make it a fucking maze, but they did.

  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    Rainfall wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Speaking of non-cinematic conversations, they suck. I like them for merchants and the generic investigation chats with followers, and the banter responses are fantastic, but it removes a lot of impact for other conversations in the world when you can't see faces.

    Well, those more cinematic scenes cost more time/money probably why you don't get them for scenes where a lady asks you to get her 10 bear hides.

    Yup but it sure doesn't help me care about the shitty quest for 10 bear hides. Too many shitty quests, not enough of the engaging cinematic action. The open world could stand to be toned down a tad.

    ...You know you can just beeline through the story. The amount of power you need is actually quite small compared to how much you accumulate(hell, I'm sitting on 200 power right now myself and only need 40).

    I mean I just don't understand complaining about completely optional content.
    It being optional doesn't make is any less bad. I'd rather those resources be put to use elsewhere.

    Bad content is bad content, optional or not. And when you front load a huge pile of bad content into the Hinterlands it provides an awful experience for a lot of players that is not representative of the game at large.

    Except its not bad content. Its interesting, explorable content that enlarges the world and gives it life and feeling beyond what your character does. Different people like different things. I, personally, loved the Hinterlands. I found it to be a great introduction to the game and how it works. It was beautiful to explore, there were constantly interesting things I was running across, and it made the world feel larger and more alive to me. At no point did I think "God, this is boring" or "God, this is bad." I spent a good 20 hours in the Hinterlands and loved every moment of it. Cutting that out would be a massive detriment to the game and make it significantly worse.

    Here's the thing, your opinions are not fact. You may not enjoy it, and that's fine. But to yell that they should cut it makes you look bad. It makes it seem like your opinion is that if a game is not designed for your tastes, then the game is bad. And that's just arrogant. I'm glad Bioware made the design decisions they did in regards to size, events, and quest structure. I've had more fun with DAI then any other game in the last two years.

    Collect 10 Ram Meat, Find Missing Ring(halfway across the map,) and Get This Potion(in five more levels) are pretty shitty quests. There's good stuff out there as well, but you literally barge head first into MMO starter zone quests. They should be front loading quests like "find the Mage/Templar hideouts to stabilize the area" instead of hiding those in letters around the zone, to showcase how the areas dynamically change based on your actions. Tie more early activities into War Room operations to encourage players to return to Haven, and really push the visit to Val Royeaux.

    While I like the quests, even the "boring" ones, I agree with you. I thought the "get 4 power" thing was pretty much all they needed to do, but looking at player feedback, it seems like a lot of people just ignored that.

    Honestly, if I were designing this game, I wouldn't have made the largest, most sprawling zone with the biggest variance in enemy levels the first zone in the game. I'd have had it open after reaching Skyhold.

  • BassguyBassguy Ghost Ride the Dragon Registered User regular
    I wouldn't mind the running around if movement through DAI areas weren't predicated on the idea that every 5 steps the player should encounter an impassable barrier that needs to be circumvented by running in a non-intuitive direction to find the path or playing a shitty jumping puzzle.

    In Skyrim you can just decide where you want to run and then pretty much run there. Yeah, there are some mountains and such that can't be directly climbed, but they are obvious and there are as many ways around them as you like.

    In DAI everything is some sort of maze. Just getting from here to there is a physical struggle. I'm in the Exalted Plains right now and it's incredible to me that they took an area named after flat terrain and managed to make it a fucking maze, but they did.
    Yeah, that is insufferable. It's never fun spending 5 minutes dicking around to find the right path to a quest marker.

    If there was a puzzle or something in the way, that's fine. This is just trial and error bullshit, though.

  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    I wouldn't mind the running around if movement through DAI areas weren't predicated on the idea that every 5 steps the player should encounter an impassable barrier that needs to be circumvented by running in a non-intuitive direction to find the path or playing a shitty jumping puzzle.

    One thing I don't get is why can't you have some sort of rough maps of the area beforehand. It's not like these are some sort of New World where nobody has been before, instead of completely blank fog of war there could be a "Here be Dragons" type drawn map that you gradually replace with an accurate map as you run around. And both of those maps, the rough one and the later accurate one, should have some sort of indication of which terrain is passable and which isn't.

    The fact you can see your own path on the maps ameliorates this a bit, without that feature I'm sure I would've gotten genuinely angry a few times already when trying to get somewhere.

  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Bassguy wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind the running around if movement through DAI areas weren't predicated on the idea that every 5 steps the player should encounter an impassable barrier that needs to be circumvented by running in a non-intuitive direction to find the path or playing a shitty jumping puzzle.

    In Skyrim you can just decide where you want to run and then pretty much run there. Yeah, there are some mountains and such that can't be directly climbed, but they are obvious and there are as many ways around them as you like.

    In DAI everything is some sort of maze. Just getting from here to there is a physical struggle. I'm in the Exalted Plains right now and it's incredible to me that they took an area named after flat terrain and managed to make it a fucking maze, but they did.
    Yeah, that is insufferable. It's never fun spending 5 minutes dicking around to find the right path to a quest marker.

    If there was a puzzle or something in the way, that's fine. This is just trial and error bullshit, though.

    Seaking of puzzles, Exalted Plains has my favorite puzzle so far, it's in the marshy area thingy that you have to unlock with a war table mission, and you kind of go down into this little dungeon that's on the way through the caves leading into the marsh (where I think there is a dragon, not sure).

    Anyway, it was just a good classic RPG puzzle where you have to fiddle with things in the right order to unlock more things and fiddle with those and when you work out the sequence it unlocks.

    It's not timed, you are not getting attacked while you're doing it, it doesn't require you to go somewhere else to find a stupid hidden key to progress it or anything like that.

    It took me about 20 minutes to work it out, and it was fun.

    More like that, less "solve this puzzle while the timer ticks down!"

    I hate timers.

  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Frozenzen wrote: »
    Meh, dragons ended up dissapointing after the first one. Spoilers if someone doesn't want to read it I guess.
    Just soloed the three emprise de lyons dragons on my mage knight-enchanterquisitor. Started at 21, ended up at 22 after killing the last one. They really really needed to make each dragon fight unique, instead of making them all fit the same mold. I mean, soloing them is purely because knight enchanter is hilariously broken (Practically infinite healing+invulnerability for big things) while dealing decent damage. But in general all the dragons tended to do the same things, apart from not be as interesting as the first one in hinterlands. At least it retreated as the fight wore on, instead of just constantly coming back for more.

    Yeah, this is something I've noticed.

    I thought
    Dragons would have different phases like the first one did. Most of them just tend to stay grounded going through their basic move list.

    I would have loved if they added a few more gimmicks to each fight.

    Yep, fewer more well designed ones would have been better. Build on the first one, instead of having that one be the most unique.

  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Rainfall wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Speaking of non-cinematic conversations, they suck. I like them for merchants and the generic investigation chats with followers, and the banter responses are fantastic, but it removes a lot of impact for other conversations in the world when you can't see faces.

    Well, those more cinematic scenes cost more time/money probably why you don't get them for scenes where a lady asks you to get her 10 bear hides.

    Yup but it sure doesn't help me care about the shitty quest for 10 bear hides. Too many shitty quests, not enough of the engaging cinematic action. The open world could stand to be toned down a tad.

    ...You know you can just beeline through the story. The amount of power you need is actually quite small compared to how much you accumulate(hell, I'm sitting on 200 power right now myself and only need 40).

    I mean I just don't understand complaining about completely optional content.
    It being optional doesn't make is any less bad. I'd rather those resources be put to use elsewhere.

    Bad content is bad content, optional or not. And when you front load a huge pile of bad content into the Hinterlands it provides an awful experience for a lot of players that is not representative of the game at large.

    Except its not bad content. Its interesting, explorable content that enlarges the world and gives it life and feeling beyond what your character does. Different people like different things. I, personally, loved the Hinterlands. I found it to be a great introduction to the game and how it works. It was beautiful to explore, there were constantly interesting things I was running across, and it made the world feel larger and more alive to me. At no point did I think "God, this is boring" or "God, this is bad." I spent a good 20 hours in the Hinterlands and loved every moment of it. Cutting that out would be a massive detriment to the game and make it significantly worse.

    Here's the thing, your opinions are not fact. You may not enjoy it, and that's fine. But to yell that they should cut it makes you look bad. It makes it seem like your opinion is that if a game is not designed for your tastes, then the game is bad. And that's just arrogant. I'm glad Bioware made the design decisions they did in regards to size, events, and quest structure. I've had more fun with DAI then any other game in the last two years.

    Collect 10 Ram Meat, Find Missing Ring(halfway across the map,) and Get This Potion(in five more levels) are pretty shitty quests. There's good stuff out there as well, but you literally barge head first into MMO starter zone quests. They should be front loading quests like "find the Mage/Templar hideouts to stabilize the area" instead of hiding those in letters around the zone, to showcase how the areas dynamically change based on your actions. Tie more early activities into War Room operations to encourage players to return to Haven, and really push the visit to Val Royeaux.

    Collect 10 Ram Meat - Hey, as I'm wandering the map, there are rams around. Note to self, kill rams as I do other things [14 hours and a zone later], Oh, hey, that quest indicator on the right side just showed I have 10 Ram meat to turn in. I should go do that the next time I leave Haven. Sweet, sweet XP!

    Find Missing Ring - [4 hours later] Oh, hey, I have this group of quests over in this area. A couple of Rifts, some Red Lyrium to destroy, and what's that? Templars to kill and a missing ring to collect? Sounds like a good time. Let's go!

    Get This Potion - [20 hours later] Hey, the note on this corpse triggered a quest. I wonder where it is? Oh, hey, there's a couple of Rifts over there I haven't closed. And that potion thing, too! I should go do that. Wow! That is an impressive keep! Wait, these people are going to worship me if I close that Rift? Sweet! Thank you random quests!

    And that just keeps going on, and on, and on for me in this game. None of them felt pointless or useless to me. All of them gave me that nice euphoric feeling of completing a small quest that a game is suppose to give you.

    EDIT: Also, I have no clue what "Jumping Puzzles" people keep talking about. In 50 hours of game, I have not seen a single one. There've been a few jump on Rock A to get on Rock B, but there was no chance of falling while jumping from Rock A to Rock B, and it was obvious that Rock A was there to get you up to Rock B. I wouldn't call them puzzles by any stretch of the imagination.

    AspectVoid on
    PSN|AspectVoid
  • RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Speaking of non-cinematic conversations, they suck. I like them for merchants and the generic investigation chats with followers, and the banter responses are fantastic, but it removes a lot of impact for other conversations in the world when you can't see faces.

    Well, those more cinematic scenes cost more time/money probably why you don't get them for scenes where a lady asks you to get her 10 bear hides.

    Yup but it sure doesn't help me care about the shitty quest for 10 bear hides. Too many shitty quests, not enough of the engaging cinematic action. The open world could stand to be toned down a tad.

    ...You know you can just beeline through the story. The amount of power you need is actually quite small compared to how much you accumulate(hell, I'm sitting on 200 power right now myself and only need 40).

    I mean I just don't understand complaining about completely optional content.
    It being optional doesn't make is any less bad. I'd rather those resources be put to use elsewhere.

    Bad content is bad content, optional or not. And when you front load a huge pile of bad content into the Hinterlands it provides an awful experience for a lot of players that is not representative of the game at large.

    Except its not bad content. Its interesting, explorable content that enlarges the world and gives it life and feeling beyond what your character does. Different people like different things. I, personally, loved the Hinterlands. I found it to be a great introduction to the game and how it works. It was beautiful to explore, there were constantly interesting things I was running across, and it made the world feel larger and more alive to me. At no point did I think "God, this is boring" or "God, this is bad." I spent a good 20 hours in the Hinterlands and loved every moment of it. Cutting that out would be a massive detriment to the game and make it significantly worse.

    Here's the thing, your opinions are not fact. You may not enjoy it, and that's fine. But to yell that they should cut it makes you look bad. It makes it seem like your opinion is that if a game is not designed for your tastes, then the game is bad. And that's just arrogant. I'm glad Bioware made the design decisions they did in regards to size, events, and quest structure. I've had more fun with DAI then any other game in the last two years.

    Collect 10 Ram Meat, Find Missing Ring(halfway across the map,) and Get This Potion(in five more levels) are pretty shitty quests. There's good stuff out there as well, but you literally barge head first into MMO starter zone quests. They should be front loading quests like "find the Mage/Templar hideouts to stabilize the area" instead of hiding those in letters around the zone, to showcase how the areas dynamically change based on your actions. Tie more early activities into War Room operations to encourage players to return to Haven, and really push the visit to Val Royeaux.

    Collect 10 Ram Meat - Hey, as I'm wandering the map, there are rams around. Note to self, kill rams as I do other things [14 hours and a zone later], Oh, hey, that quest indicator on the right side just showed I have 10 Ram meat to turn in. I should go do that the next time I leave Haven. Sweet, sweet XP!

    Find Missing Ring - [4 hours later] Oh, hey, I have this group of quests over in this area. A couple of Rifts, some Red Lyrium to destroy, and what's that? Templars to kill and a missing ring to collect? Sounds like a good time. Let's go!

    Get This Potion - [20 hours later] Hey, the note on this corpse triggered a quest. I wonder where it is? Oh, hey, there's a couple of Rifts over there I haven't closed. And that potion thing, too! I should go do that. Wow! That is an impressive keep! Wait, these people are going to worship me if I close that Rift? Sweet! Thank you random quests!

    And that just keeps going on, and on, and on for me in this game. None of them felt pointless or useless to me. All of them gave me that nice euphoric feeling of completing a small quest that a game is suppose to give you.

    And none of them showcase the actual game. They're "explore the world" quests which are fine but shouldn't be the first quests you interact with when the game really wants you to go to Val Royeaux to open up the other companions and to push the story towards Skyhold.

    It left a very sour taste in my mouth and I promptly went and played twenty-thirty hours of multiplayer before coming back and jamming into the story. It would be very easy to make the starting zone more engaging and they failed.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    Well...

    I will admit...Shard-hunting makes me seriously wish your character could climb.

    Trying to get a Shard and seeing a rock that your character's jump is just a little too short to reach forcing you to go all the way around is very annoying.

    But its mostly for shards, when it comes to other stuff the path is usually pretty obvious.

  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    So I'm 18 hours in and have barely scratched the surface. I pretty much love the game but damn the tactical camera and pathfinding can be annoying. In some dark dungeons you can't see where you are on the tac cam and your team gets stuck behind obstacles in non tactical mode. I love the environments but I wish there was a command to teleport the team to me during combat. Put a timer and a delay on it to avoid shenanigans. That and a pulled back tac cam with see through vegetation.

    “Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius

    Path of Exile: themightypuck
  • BassguyBassguy Ghost Ride the Dragon Registered User regular
    Bassguy wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind the running around if movement through DAI areas weren't predicated on the idea that every 5 steps the player should encounter an impassable barrier that needs to be circumvented by running in a non-intuitive direction to find the path or playing a shitty jumping puzzle.

    In Skyrim you can just decide where you want to run and then pretty much run there. Yeah, there are some mountains and such that can't be directly climbed, but they are obvious and there are as many ways around them as you like.

    In DAI everything is some sort of maze. Just getting from here to there is a physical struggle. I'm in the Exalted Plains right now and it's incredible to me that they took an area named after flat terrain and managed to make it a fucking maze, but they did.
    Yeah, that is insufferable. It's never fun spending 5 minutes dicking around to find the right path to a quest marker.

    If there was a puzzle or something in the way, that's fine. This is just trial and error bullshit, though.

    Seaking of puzzles, Exalted Plains has my favorite puzzle so far, it's in the marshy area thingy that you have to unlock with a war table mission, and you kind of go down into this little dungeon that's on the way through the caves leading into the marsh (where I think there is a dragon, not sure).

    Anyway, it was just a good classic RPG puzzle where you have to fiddle with things in the right order to unlock more things and fiddle with those and when you work out the sequence it unlocks.

    It's not timed, you are not getting attacked while you're doing it, it doesn't require you to go somewhere else to find a stupid hidden key to progress it or anything like that.

    It took me about 20 minutes to work it out, and it was fun.

    More like that, less "solve this puzzle while the timer ticks down!"

    I hate timers.
    That's not to say I want BioWare to gate quests behind the tower of hanoi or anything. But if you're going to slam on the brakes to keep people from finishing things too quickly, it should be with interesting content — not frustrating terrain or 18,000 mobs thrown at you.

  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    As Yahtzee put it, "Ooh, sidequests! Ooh, collectibles! Ooh, an intact thing!"

  • RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    Basically what I'm saying is the game needs to signpost better. The point when you need 15 power to do Templars/Mages should be the "go explore" point. There should also be more interaction between the Hinterlands and the War Room (10 Ram meat should be a war table operation to feed the village, it would make way more sense) so as to encourage a back and forth and engage the player as a leader rather than a random adventurer.

  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Rainfall wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Bassguy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Speaking of non-cinematic conversations, they suck. I like them for merchants and the generic investigation chats with followers, and the banter responses are fantastic, but it removes a lot of impact for other conversations in the world when you can't see faces.

    Well, those more cinematic scenes cost more time/money probably why you don't get them for scenes where a lady asks you to get her 10 bear hides.

    Yup but it sure doesn't help me care about the shitty quest for 10 bear hides. Too many shitty quests, not enough of the engaging cinematic action. The open world could stand to be toned down a tad.

    ...You know you can just beeline through the story. The amount of power you need is actually quite small compared to how much you accumulate(hell, I'm sitting on 200 power right now myself and only need 40).

    I mean I just don't understand complaining about completely optional content.
    It being optional doesn't make is any less bad. I'd rather those resources be put to use elsewhere.

    Bad content is bad content, optional or not. And when you front load a huge pile of bad content into the Hinterlands it provides an awful experience for a lot of players that is not representative of the game at large.

    Except its not bad content. Its interesting, explorable content that enlarges the world and gives it life and feeling beyond what your character does. Different people like different things. I, personally, loved the Hinterlands. I found it to be a great introduction to the game and how it works. It was beautiful to explore, there were constantly interesting things I was running across, and it made the world feel larger and more alive to me. At no point did I think "God, this is boring" or "God, this is bad." I spent a good 20 hours in the Hinterlands and loved every moment of it. Cutting that out would be a massive detriment to the game and make it significantly worse.

    Here's the thing, your opinions are not fact. You may not enjoy it, and that's fine. But to yell that they should cut it makes you look bad. It makes it seem like your opinion is that if a game is not designed for your tastes, then the game is bad. And that's just arrogant. I'm glad Bioware made the design decisions they did in regards to size, events, and quest structure. I've had more fun with DAI then any other game in the last two years.

    Collect 10 Ram Meat, Find Missing Ring(halfway across the map,) and Get This Potion(in five more levels) are pretty shitty quests. There's good stuff out there as well, but you literally barge head first into MMO starter zone quests. They should be front loading quests like "find the Mage/Templar hideouts to stabilize the area" instead of hiding those in letters around the zone, to showcase how the areas dynamically change based on your actions. Tie more early activities into War Room operations to encourage players to return to Haven, and really push the visit to Val Royeaux.

    Collect 10 Ram Meat - Hey, as I'm wandering the map, there are rams around. Note to self, kill rams as I do other things [14 hours and a zone later], Oh, hey, that quest indicator on the right side just showed I have 10 Ram meat to turn in. I should go do that the next time I leave Haven. Sweet, sweet XP!

    Find Missing Ring - [4 hours later] Oh, hey, I have this group of quests over in this area. A couple of Rifts, some Red Lyrium to destroy, and what's that? Templars to kill and a missing ring to collect? Sounds like a good time. Let's go!

    Get This Potion - [20 hours later] Hey, the note on this corpse triggered a quest. I wonder where it is? Oh, hey, there's a couple of Rifts over there I haven't closed. And that potion thing, too! I should go do that. Wow! That is an impressive keep! Wait, these people are going to worship me if I close that Rift? Sweet! Thank you random quests!

    And that just keeps going on, and on, and on for me in this game. None of them felt pointless or useless to me. All of them gave me that nice euphoric feeling of completing a small quest that a game is suppose to give you.

    And none of them showcase the actual game. They're "explore the world" quests which are fine but shouldn't be the first quests you interact with when the game really wants you to go to Val Royeaux to open up the other companions and to push the story towards Skyhold.

    It left a very sour taste in my mouth and I promptly went and played twenty-thirty hours of multiplayer before coming back and jamming into the story. It would be very easy to make the starting zone more engaging and they failed.

    Except it is the game. Explore the world, do shit is a HUGE part of the game. You DON'T have to drive to Val Royeaux. You DON'T have to drive to Skyhold. Shit, I'm annoyed at myself for going to Skyhold as early as a did (After only exploring Hinterlands and Storm Coast) because by the time I got to the Fallow Mire, it was trivial because I had opened and done the Western Approach, Crestwood, and Adamant because an NPC's Storyline quest took me through all three locations.

    The fact is what you want would destroy the game for me. It would rip out what I am loving about it and replace it with another linear game that gives me no incentive to explore and enjoy the world.

    AspectVoid on
    PSN|AspectVoid
  • Maz-Maz- 飛べ Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    The thing is, while a lot of the sidequests aren't all that interesting by themselves, they are comparatively cheap and quick to make. One less "collect 10 bear asses" quest does not equal one more quest on the scale of the companion quests where you explore a new area and which often features unique dialogue, cinematics, lore and stuff like that.

    Maz- on
    Add me on Switch: 7795-5541-4699
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Honestly, what I feel I want to say is that the game is designed great as it is. If you want to rush story missions, you can! There is nothing other than power (which you get a lot of once you get into the game) holding you back. If I want to take 20 hours and explore the Hinterlands before I go to Val Royeaux, I can! The content is there for me to have fun with that.

    If you rip my content out because it annoys you, you do not make a better game. All you do is piss the pool I'm playing in.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • Man of the WavesMan of the Waves Registered User regular
    I caved and bought this. Really caved, since I got it through on PC through Origin.

    I didn't feel 100% on the decision until I saw that they are giving away Crusader: No Remorse. That already made the purchase worthwhile.

  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    OK, I know I've recruited some unusual allies for the Inquisition, but I swear I'm not responsible for this one:

    hy9jpt02786c.jpg

    Had an entire conversation with Cullen as the Headless Footwoman here waved her sword around.

    holy crap, its celty from durarara!

    edit** also, I've been vindicated in my Alexis judgement.
    Remember that I said that I Traquiled the fucker? A bunch of mages in a war room mission started raising a ruckus about "How could you?! We were fighting against this kind of treatment when we joined you! How could you do this, you're a mage too!
    "
    Between the three advisors, Cullen had the best response I could send:

    Send 1 Templar and 1 Mage, both veterans. They will go to the people that are upset about this judgement and explain to them why I did what I did.

    Here's the excerpt from the after action report:

    I cannot say we have peace, but we have calm. Our
    Representatives spoke with the protesting mages and
    reassured them of how gravely you approached the use
    of Tranquility, I suspect that the only reason they were
    successfully reasoned with is that you yourself are a
    mage. They may wonder how one of their own could do
    that to another mage, but on some level they accept that
    at least it was one of their own.

    Cullen


    I'll take what I can get. Freedom isn't free you knuckleheads. Just because we are loosening the clamps and ropes of the circles doesn't mean you can just go off and do whatever you want.
    You commit a heinous crime, I will fucking hit you with a magic icepick to the head.

    NotoriusBEN on
    a4irovn5uqjp.png
    Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    \
    Maz- wrote: »
    The thing is, while a lot of the sidequests aren't all that interesting by themselves, they are comparatively cheap and quick to make. One less "collect 10 bear asses" quest does not equal one more quest on the scale of the companion quest where you explore a new area and which often features unique dialogue, cinematics, lore and stuff like that.

    Yeah and I feel some sidequests while simple are still there to set a mood.

    Like say I'm collecting bear fur.

    But I'm collecting it because villager's homes have been burned to the ground by the mage/templar conflict and they're all cold and starving.

    I mean I don't need a big scene for that and I feel something simple like that still helps set up the world.

    So in part its kind of a roleplaying thing for me.

    Dragkonias on
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    I'm with AspectVoid.

    There are plenty of little things that could be done better but that goes for just about every game, expecially large scale games.

    However, just removing swathes of *optional* content wholesale would not a better game make.

  • RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    My personal preference leans towards more cinematic content and less bear asses.

    The game would be substantially improved for most players by rearranging content to push players into story faster by better signposting. It would still be possible to ignore said signposts and explore, but if I hadn't popped a couple of spoilers about story progression, nothing seemed to be directing me towards plot rather than dicking around, and I lost interest fast. I'm glad I got back into it because I'm enjoying the fuck out of the plot, but the Hinterlands was not a good start.

    Rainfall on
  • BeltaineBeltaine BOO BOO DOO DE DOORegistered User regular
    I'm torn on the whole sidequest thing.

    I feel like gating some of the sidequests into a more tactical order (Establish central base, stabilize base, then venture out) would be great.

    But at the same time, gating sidequests into order takes away the freedom and open-worldiness of the game.

    On subsequent playthroughs I absolutely don't want to gate my progress in any way. I want to mainline the things I want to see and make the changes to the story I want to see play out differently from last time. I don't want to have to wade through the muck if I don't want to.

    XdDBi4F.jpg
    PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    All of the main story quests are in the journal under Inquisitor's Path and The Inner Circle. And I thought the cinematics before the hinterlands made it quite clear what you were there to do; retrieve Giselle and secure the refugee camp, put a stop to the rebel mages/templar battle that's destroying the area.

    That's even the default tracked and highlighted on the map quest, and it's a short walk from your starting camp.

    Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
    sig.gif
  • am0nam0n Registered User regular
    Falves wrote: »
    Beltaine wrote: »
    I'm starting to feel like the game is too big.

    I can't decide if i would be happier with a game that was 20 hours or less so I could run multiple playthroughs or not.

    I played my first character about 12 hours before I thought it'd be cool to see what a different character would play like. I've gone 8 hours with that second character and now I'm thinking about my third and I haven't finished the game with any character yet.

    Welcome to my world...

    One thing I've learned over the last few years is I just don't have the patience/time for 60 hour games any more. I've been trying to condition myself over the last year or so to be less of a completionist and more of a Complete-the-damn-game-ist.

    So many games have gone unfinished, but with 20 or 30 hours put into them.

  • VicVic Registered User regular
    I just kind of miss the basic sidequest structure in Dragon Age 2. Repeated environments and linear paths aside, in that game it at least usually felt like I was going on a proper mission. In each game it is mostly just a matter of getting from point A to point B and fight a few packs of enemies on the way, but for those purposes the huge empty spaces of inquisition feel more like tedious padding than freedom. More importantly I feel like sidequests usually had some kind of payoff or decision linked with them in Dragon Age 2, making them more meaningful and giving more opportunity for character development for your companions.

    I know it is a tired comparison, but when I played through the Hinterlands I felt like I was back in vanilla world of warcraft. It's not stopping me from loving the game, but it is rather draining.

  • BassguyBassguy Ghost Ride the Dragon Registered User regular
    I think this is on the edge of derailing, so I won't continue arguing here. Some of us disagree about the design of a portion of the side quests. We all largely think that the game on the whole is awesome. It'll all be okay.

    On a different note, I think the game works really well on the Vita via Remote Play. It makes me really wish we could get some Awakening-sized portable games from BioWare. I know that's not going to happen because of market realities, but I can dream.

  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Rainfall wrote: »
    Jeez you're being hella defensive and ignoring my points. My personal preference leans towards more cinematic content and less bear asses.

    The game would be substantially improved for most players by rearranging content to push players into story faster by better signposting. It would still be possible to ignore said signposts and explore, but if I hadn't popped a couple of spoilers about story progression, nothing seemed to be directing me towards plot rather than dicking around, and I lost interest fast. I'm glad I got back into it because I'm enjoying the fuck out of the plot, but the Hinterlands was not a good start.

    You said, and I quote, "Bad content is bad content, optional or not", "It being optional doesn't make is any less bad.", and "Too many shitty quests, not enough of the engaging cinematic action. ". That is not you saying you prefer cinematic content. That is you saying that what is in the game is bad. Period.

    And what kind of sign posts do you need? I mean, was the giant green clouds of smoke floating over story content not enough? Was the fact that the Story Quests have their own section in the Journal called "The Inquisitor's Path" that tells you what quest you need to do for story content too vague? What would help you, because I can't see how you make it more obvious without making it more annoying. Hell, the green smoke over the story areas on the War Table is annoying enough when trying to access requisitions behind it.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    am0n wrote: »
    Falves wrote: »
    Beltaine wrote: »
    I'm starting to feel like the game is too big.

    I can't decide if i would be happier with a game that was 20 hours or less so I could run multiple playthroughs or not.

    I played my first character about 12 hours before I thought it'd be cool to see what a different character would play like. I've gone 8 hours with that second character and now I'm thinking about my third and I haven't finished the game with any character yet.

    Welcome to my world...

    One thing I've learned over the last few years is I just don't have the patience/time for 60 hour games any more. I've been trying to condition myself over the last year or so to be less of a completionist and more of a Complete-the-damn-game-ist.

    So many games have gone unfinished, but with 20 or 30 hours put into them.

    Yeah. Not going to lie.

    This game is so big I don't realistically see myself doing any more than maybe 2 playthroughs and some MP.

  • RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    Rami wrote: »
    All of the main story quests are in the journal under Inquisitor's Path and The Inner Circle. And I thought the cinematics before the hinterlands made it quite clear what you were there to do; retrieve Giselle and secure the refugee camp, put a stop to the rebel mages/templar battle that's destroying the area.

    That's even the default tracked and highlighted on the map quest, and it's a short walk from your starting camp.

    Right, and when you complete that it leaves you in the Hinterlands with a dozen quests in your log and maybe thinking about Val Royeaux but any guidance to the main plot stops there and it's very easy to get discouraged by the size of the Hinterlands and the occasional level 12 rifts that pop up near, say, the farm (the other quest hub in that area that you're guided to at the start)

    It's too easy to think you're doing something wrong and it would be a pretty easy fix to rearrange some content to encourage a back and forth between the war table and the open world.

This discussion has been closed.