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[DOTA 2] 6.85

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Posts

  • SomeWarlockSomeWarlock Registered User regular
    Jutranjo wrote: »
    C9 were playing dota for how long today? From 1 pm to 1 am?

    Yeah. They were playing for over 12 hours straight by the time of the finals, ignoring some long pauses during the VP matchup.

    I feel bad for C9 since they can clearly beat EG(I mean, they 2-0'd EG and in the group stage), it's just that as even PDD admits, they're emotional and panic during finals and play like shit.

    Being Kongs like that can really hurt a player/team.

  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Dreamleague stuff:

    Please stop giving C9 Terrorblade or really anyone Terrorblade that hero is stupidly good and C9 relies on it like a crutch.

    Terrorblade has a sub 50% win-rate in pro matches with a win rate of ~46%.

    In fact, EE is the source of 25% of all wins in pro matches on Terrorblade, and when you remove EE from Terrorblade's stats, Terrorblad has a ~40% win rate. There's not much to support Terrorblade being OP(statstically, he's under-performing) as much as EE and C9 making it look that way.

    Source: http://www.datdota.com/hero.php?q=Terrorblade&p=stats

    Huh. That's really interesting!

  • MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    So far I'm 0-4 with Tinker for my all hero challenge. I do decently in the laning phase without any gank support. I get my BoTs and try to help the other lanes but by then they have already lost their T1s. I think the main problem is the other picks on my team. One game had no support, one had no carry, another had an Oracle that fed and they sat at fountain and another I had to go safelane with a Venge that took farm because someone took Pudge as the 4th pick and went middle. I think next time I'm going to have to rush Blink and Eth Blade and hope that I can blow people up enough before they can get farmed.

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
  • MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    Now 0-5, got Eth and Dagon5, PA and LC were so fucking fed though that I couldn't do anything against them.

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
  • JutranjoJutranjo Registered User regular
    Are you going bottle/BoT/soul ring/blink? Tinker can carry a game on his own, he can farm both sidelanes very safely if he has blink and there's no spectre/storm/furion on the enemy team.

    Turn on Cancel TP chanel only with Stop command and you don't even need to shift click the blink dagger. You teleport, blink into trees, march.

    ProspicienceKoopahTroopah
  • MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    I've been going bottle, BoT, then Soul Ring. I got blink in half the games and didn't have any trouble without it. I think the main problem is that by the time I have enough to solo someone, the carries are way too strong and have BKB or Basher already. My items after the early game have been to go either Sheep or Dagon, then E-Blade if I got the Dagon, or Shivas if I got the Sheep.

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    i think i usually go soul ring before BoT since it helps sustain better.

    keep your rearm at level one until you have more of a mana pool since it costs less

    camo_sig.png
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Makes sense. I've played a few bot games with Undying, trying to do lane support and eventual pushing. It just feels to me that though he isn't necessarily a carry, he probably should be farming his own lane a bit. Especially when his Ultimate kinda requires him to be able to wade into teamfights to be worth anything.

    Pretty much. The thing with undying is that you're almost guaranteed first blood in the lane. And you can usually collect a couple more kills after that. Plus, with the right lane buddy, you can dive people like a mofo. The problem is that he falls off a cliff come late game, so you need to get a lot done early, or you just become a liability. Most new (and far too many veteran) players like to split up and farm alone to get their big end game items, but as Undying you need your team to get early fighting items and push objectives as 5, and they have to commit when they do. Often they don't, and you just end up getting burst down while your ult is on. So playing him can be pretty frustrating.

    I made the distinct error judgement of playing dota on a holiday yesterday. 3 games in a row I was playing well, 3 games in a row one or two people on me team made a complete cock of themselves and threw early leads.

    Thanks for this, I played Undying a bit more this weekend, and this really helped me play him better. I've been overly cautious during the laning phase because I've been burned sooooo many times now, but this guy just wrecks people in the early game. In one game I was laning against a Drow Assassin, and I ganked her about 5 or 6 times (I've run against her enough times now to know how good she is in the late game) to try and keep her down. Felt a lot more satisfying when we pushed for the win at the 25 minute mark.

    Found a few more favorites: Nightstalker, Gyrocopter, and Tusk. Nightstalker, in particular, was pretty awesome. I've had a lot of survivability problems with the bots, because they bail during teamfights without telling me. But Nightstalker, geez, that guy can book it. I think I maybe died once during a 50 minute game. Just started running around ganking solo Heroes for quite a while.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    While I think Nighstalker is a bit weak right now, conceptually he is one of my favorite heroes.

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Sceptre wrote: »
    While I think Nighstalker is a bit weak right now, conceptually he is one of my favorite heroes.

    The new (well, not so new now...) day/night cycle really hurt him.

    I have been playing enchantress in ranked games and people really don't know how to deal with her.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Can you guys explain what you mean by that?

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • JutranjoJutranjo Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Can you guys explain what you mean by that?

    If you mean the nightstalker night/day changes, the day and night cycle is 4 minutes long now. It used to be 6 minutes day then 6 minutes night. This matters a lot but especially to a mid nighstalker who gets level 6/7 at the first night and goes to wreck any sidelane that isn't hiding behind their tower and even then he can dive them. You can get urn or phase or something easily be then as well so you spend the next 6 minutes killing anyone you saw. It's harder to do now.

  • SomeWarlockSomeWarlock Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Can you guys explain what you mean by that?

    I assume you mean why Nightstalker is weak(er) now?

    They Day/Night cycle used to be 6 minutes each(for 12 minutes for a full cycle). That meant the first night kicked in at the 6 minute mark, and Nightstalker had 6 Minutes where he was very strong in relation to every other hero. The cycle now is 4 minutes each, so the first night kicks in at 4 minutes and lasts 4 minutes. This kicks in earlier than Nightstalker really comes online, so he misses the first night and has to wait for the second night, which starts at the 12 minute mark. But by the 12 minute mark, carries have gotten some items and may have gotten their first big item, so Nightstalker doesn't have as much impact as he did before. And Nightstalker doesn't transition well into the late game. So he has less impact in the early and mid game, and isn't better in the late, so he's worse for the day/night changes.

  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Does "dive" mean chasing someone you've been beating down, past their own tower, and then escaping between them?

    Thanks for the info on the day/night cycle, that's good to know. So, with that knowledge, should I wait until 8 minutes into the game to start ganking, 4 minutes, or should I just use Darkness whenever I'm in position to strike?

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Another thing: I've seen advice that you should only have 1 carry on your team. If there's only one carry, who should be getting the farm on the other two lanes? I know Support generally shouldn't farm if they have a buddy who needs it, but sometimes I have a hard time telling if my guy is lane support or if they should be farming a bit. Or, is it that there should only be one carry, but if you have skills that boost your normal attack, you should farm as well? Sometimes it's obvious for me, like I'll just harass and deny with Zeus, while my melee buddy farms. Sometimes, not so obvious, like with Sand King or Gyrocopter. They're obviously not carries, but they have skills that are boosted by their damage output.

    Nightstalker is an example. I know he's not considered by the game to be a "Carry", but I farm with him because I think he should be doing it, and I treat him like he is a carry, to some extent.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • JutranjoJutranjo Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Does "dive" mean chasing someone you've been beating down, past their own tower, and then escaping between them?

    Thanks for the info on the day/night cycle, that's good to know. So, with that knowledge, should I wait until 8 minutes into the game to start ganking, 4 minutes, or should I just use Darkness whenever I'm in position to strike?

    8 minutes is daytime again. Right now I'd say NS just pushes the enemy out of his lane at 4 minutes if he's solo vs not a trilane.

    Diving means going under the enemy tower which generally you don't want to do but the towers can't kill you THAT fast on certain heroes.

  • TetraRayTetraRay Registered User regular
    It's not "technically" who is a carry and who is a support that determines who is a higher priority for farm, they tend to use an actual numbering system for that. They arrange this from First position always having priority to Fifth being the lowest. I tend to see this played out mostly in pro games.

    Basically using who is a carry/support to determine who needs farm over the numbered positioning is like the difference between using layman's or more scientific terms.

    So the examples you use: Zeus vs Melee buddy. This depends on whom that melee buddy is and which lane this is in. Zeus generally is run mid because he does well with a level advantage and extra money. So if this is the off lane its possible Zeus could take some last hits and not be acting like a dick, where as if its in the safe lane he is probably being a dick. Even though trying to deny as a Zeus sounds horrible what with the terrible range, attack animation and damage.

    Sand King vs Gyrocopter. This might be a better example because Gyro can totally be a carry as he counters many illusion based carries, or could be going a more support like build. Heck he could even start low in the priority letting that SK work towards his early blink and then work on catching up by farming a stacked ancient or other means.

    Someone like page probably has a whole blog about this kinda thing.

    Steam ID: TetraRay
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    The way I would play him now is to only gank during the first night if you get a good rune (haste/DD). You should have decent rune control because you move a lot faster, and you can really make up for your crappy laning phase during the first day portion by focusing on dominating your lane.

    GethDark_Side
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Another thing: I've seen advice that you should only have 1 carry on your team

    Dota 2 is a far different animal than a more stratified moba like LoL. So positions and roles tend to be very fluid, which is one of the reasons I love the game so much. Heroes like Lina and Necrolyte tend to embody how this can be a paradox for new players, because both heroes are nominally supports early on, but can and arguably must transition into core heroes late game.

    That word cores is pretty important, because the current meta in Dota 2 tends to concentrate on cores and supports. Core heroes take farm priority and are expected to carry the team, supports well..support; buy consumables, place wards and etc. Cores can turn on at different points of the game, as you can draft pushing lineups, mid game line ups, late game line ups, and etc. Using your example, if you draft a carry against a heavy mid game team, you're often going to have a bad time. So always draft "X" doesn't work the best in dota.

    For newer players, I think none of the above really matters, get hard stuns and/or heroes that dominate the lane stage. Snowball to victory from there. But generally 3 cores is a good start.

    Dark_Side on
  • MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    0-7 now, just finished a game where I got ganked 4 times before I could get my BoT, and at the same time the other 2 lanes lost pretty badly. Drow went 0-10 or something stupid. Disruptor also saved their team at least 4 times with horrible Glimpses.

    Myiagros on
    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    Myiagros wrote: »
    0-7 now, just finished a game where I got ganked 4 times before I could get my BoT, and at the same time the other 2 lanes lost pretty badly. Drow went 0-10 or something stupid. Disruptor also saved their team at least 4 times with horrible Glimpses.

    Time to take a break from Tinker man. I had the same thing happen with Jugg during the 10 hero compendium challenge. Left him for a day or two, came back and won the first game I tried.

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Myiagros wrote: »
    0-7 now, just finished a game where I got ganked 4 times before I could get my BoT, and at the same time the other 2 lanes lost pretty badly. Drow went 0-10 or something stupid. Disruptor also saved their team at least 4 times with horrible Glimpses.

    I hear you. Had the same thing happen with Alchemist. Just loss after loss regardless of build.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    I finally decided to take it to Ranked, we draft a good team, then Omni takes 4 minutes to load in, goes to lane, steals farm from PA, then abandons without doing anything. We just about had it too, PA had like 35 kills, I just pushed like mad then solo defended against Megas for 5 minutes before they managed to take us down. Very close game.

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
  • JutranjoJutranjo Registered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Another thing: I've seen advice that you should only have 1 carry on your team

    Dota 2 is a far different animal than a more stratified moba like LoL. So positions and roles tend to be very fluid, which is one of the reasons I love the game so much. Heroes like Lina and Necrolyte tend to embody how this can be a paradox for new players, because both heroes are nominally supports early on, but can and arguably must transition into core heroes late game.

    That word cores is pretty important, because the current meta in Dota 2 tends to concentrate on cores and supports. Core heroes take farm priority and are expected to carry the team, supports well..support; buy consumables, place wards and etc. Cores can turn on at different points of the game, as you can draft pushing lineups, mid game line ups, late game line ups, and etc. Using your example, if you draft a carry against a heavy mid game team, you're often going to have a bad time. So always draft "X" doesn't work the best in dota.

    For newer players, I think none of the above really matters, get hard stuns and/or heroes that dominate the lane stage. Snowball to victory from there. But generally 3 cores is a good start.

    I don't see how Lina and Necro need to transition to core or how they would do so if they're playing support. Supports aren't there to buy wards, consumables etc. They do those things but they're mostly there to be heroes that can be useful with little to no items and levels. Lina always has an AOE stun and some damage to throw out in fights, antimage doesn't have nearly as much. Necro I'd say is also a shit support, what's he gonna do without items or levels?

  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Played Single Draft last night, not sure who suggested that, but thank you.

    First game I drafted Lycan, who I've played a bit before, and I like him, but I haven't figured out the controls for micromanaging yet (I'm an old Warcraft player, and assumed it'd just be CTRL+#, but that doesn't appear to be the case). I ended up feeding the other team more than anything.

    Next game I drafted KOTL. There were two cores available for me to play, which I felt would be easier to learn, but my entire damn team took cores, so I stuck with KOTL. A couple of my teammates kept giving me advice on how to use him, and I tried being a good support when possible. Kept giving Undying mana while he kept giving me health. They also had me farm for Aghs right away, which I can totally understand now, after I got it. We ended up winning, and though I helped, I was more glad of the learning experience.

    One thing about the game was that in the early laning phase, I tried to do some very very light harassment, and tried helping Riki get some farm. But the dude just auto-attacked from time to time, or just stayed hidden and tried ganking when I tried pushing enemy heroes away from their farm. Ended up getting us both killed plenty of times. I feel far too new to tell others how to play, so I held my tongue. Should I have?

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • KharnastusKharnastus Registered User regular
    I think its perfectly legitimate to yell at people auto attacking their lanes into death traps. With enough shame they just might do something different. Or flame you. they might just flame you.

  • JutranjoJutranjo Registered User regular
    Control groups should be Ctrl+number but maybe the default has it as something else. Check the keybindings, I set groups 7,8,etc. to F2,F3 and so on so I can bind my meepos like in WC3.

  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    man, had a frustrating match last night.

    had an oracle on my team vs an abaddon

    guy had no idea what his skills did. didn't purge abaddon once. we shoul dhave wiped the floor with them but no.

    camo_sig.png
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Jutranjo wrote: »
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Another thing: I've seen advice that you should only have 1 carry on your team

    Dota 2 is a far different animal than a more stratified moba like LoL. So positions and roles tend to be very fluid, which is one of the reasons I love the game so much. Heroes like Lina and Necrolyte tend to embody how this can be a paradox for new players, because both heroes are nominally supports early on, but can and arguably must transition into core heroes late game.

    That word cores is pretty important, because the current meta in Dota 2 tends to concentrate on cores and supports. Core heroes take farm priority and are expected to carry the team, supports well..support; buy consumables, place wards and etc. Cores can turn on at different points of the game, as you can draft pushing lineups, mid game line ups, late game line ups, and etc. Using your example, if you draft a carry against a heavy mid game team, you're often going to have a bad time. So always draft "X" doesn't work the best in dota.

    For newer players, I think none of the above really matters, get hard stuns and/or heroes that dominate the lane stage. Snowball to victory from there. But generally 3 cores is a good start.

    I don't see how Lina and Necro need to transition to core or how they would do so if they're playing support. Supports aren't there to buy wards, consumables etc. They do those things but they're mostly there to be heroes that can be useful with little to no items and levels. Lina always has an AOE stun and some damage to throw out in fights, antimage doesn't have nearly as much. Necro I'd say is also a shit support, what's he gonna do without items or levels?

    Well, necro has changed alot since the pro's are playing him more, but the for the longest time in scrub tier, if you picked him you got stuck playing support. Lina can do almost anything. Great early support who does wicked magic burst or AA damage later on. I was just throwing out examples of heroes that can seem confusing to new players.

    Dark_Side on
  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    Woop, won vs megacreeps. They had furion splitpushing all game and farming, he could teleport on t3s and kill them before we killed him. Ended up defending our last rax for 20 min by just camping on it and bursting him as he teleported. It went down as i got 6slot on medusa, so could keep megas back. Eventually they went as 5 and we teamwiped them, and my team pushed to their t4s, since we traded our last rax for their mid rax earlier. My team was dying with t4s down and furion respawning. Botted creeps and popped manta and stone gaze, killed it before megas killed our throne.

    Felt preeetty damn good.

    Disco11SceptreThe Escape Goat
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Lina is my "main" and love picking her as she has such versatility. Mid? sure. Offlane? Ok you can get some CS with dragon slave and her ridiculous attack range once you get the animation down. (i have the arcana so it's not as bad)
    Support? No problem! I can harass easily and can land my stun pretty reliably. Semi carry/core? Great! Phase boots and an early medallion + dragon soul and you can rip people apart.

    Played a weird game last night with her where the other team just focused on ganking with Spirit breaker, mirana, oracle and omni and night stalker and shut us down early. Picked up a diffusal blade (super underrated on her if you are going carry) and changed our focus to smoking and ganking and turned it around.
    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1064162116



    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    My issue when getting farm as Lina and trying to carry is being so damn squishy.

  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Kharnastus wrote: »
    I think its perfectly legitimate to yell at people auto attacking their lanes into death traps. With enough shame they just might do something different. Or flame you. they might just flame you.

    Maybe I'll start with telling them to stop trying to gank and just farm. I had been reading on how to stack creeps in the jungle and wanted to try doing that for him too, but he didn't seem to understand that farming was something he should be doing. In hindsight, now that I know how KOTL works, maybe I should have just stacked them for myself from time to time and just balled them later.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Frozenzen wrote: »
    My issue when getting farm as Lina and trying to carry is being so damn squishy.

    Use and abuse her attack range. Longest in the game! Also, if you get some regen you can also stack and melt jungle camps.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    Lina was one of the first heroes I really had success with.

    Even as a hard support you can eek out a ton of extra utility from her because she is very good at clearing jungle camps with her spells. She can also set up some cool multi camp stacks with her dragon salve (Q).

    In general as a support you do a LOT for your team by using the jungle. Ideally you want to stack/kill camps whenever possible, anytime the timer runs hits :00 and the creeps don't get to respawn you are wasting a lot of potential $$ for either yourself or your carries.

  • MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Kharnastus wrote: »
    I think its perfectly legitimate to yell at people auto attacking their lanes into death traps. With enough shame they just might do something different. Or flame you. they might just flame you.

    Maybe I'll start with telling them to stop trying to gank and just farm. I had been reading on how to stack creeps in the jungle and wanted to try doing that for him too, but he didn't seem to understand that farming was something he should be doing. In hindsight, now that I know how KOTL works, maybe I should have just stacked them for myself from time to time and just balled them later.

    Max level Illuminate can clear a camp in 2 full blasts I believe. getting a 3-4 stack can net you a lot of gold really quickly.

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Kharnastus wrote: »
    I think its perfectly legitimate to yell at people auto attacking their lanes into death traps. With enough shame they just might do something different. Or flame you. they might just flame you.

    Maybe I'll start with telling them to stop trying to gank and just farm. I had been reading on how to stack creeps in the jungle and wanted to try doing that for him too, but he didn't seem to understand that farming was something he should be doing. In hindsight, now that I know how KOTL works, maybe I should have just stacked them for myself from time to time and just balled them later.

    Stacking and pulling are great skills to learn, and relatively simple.

    I like watching Purge play support, he explains how the different pulls work quite well.

    He's also good explaining warding/dewarding, and blocking, though at your level you probably wont have to worry about blocking camps.

    At my level people reliably stack/pull and rarely pull through, but don't deward early game wards, so blocking a camp just has them standing around looking confused.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Mortious wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Kharnastus wrote: »
    I think its perfectly legitimate to yell at people auto attacking their lanes into death traps. With enough shame they just might do something different. Or flame you. they might just flame you.

    Maybe I'll start with telling them to stop trying to gank and just farm. I had been reading on how to stack creeps in the jungle and wanted to try doing that for him too, but he didn't seem to understand that farming was something he should be doing. In hindsight, now that I know how KOTL works, maybe I should have just stacked them for myself from time to time and just balled them later.

    Stacking and pulling are great skills to learn, and relatively simple.

    I like watching Purge play support, he explains how the different pulls work quite well.

    He's also good explaining warding/dewarding, and blocking, though at your level you probably wont have to worry about blocking camps.

    At my level people reliably stack/pull and rarely pull through, but don't deward early game wards, so blocking a camp just has them standing around looking confused.



    I've seen a couple of Purge's videos. I'll make a point to watch more. I read his guide for beginners and used a lot of it.

    Thawmus on
    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Frozenzen wrote: »
    My issue when getting farm as Lina and trying to carry is being so damn squishy.

    The big issue is blink initiators, especially if they're single target heroes like Legion Commander. You already need great positioning skills with her as it is, but once blinks are on the field I find that even with eul's, ghost, and etc. you're vulnerable no matter where you stand. It never use to be a problem until I got good with Lina, now I get prioritized all the god damn time.

    Dark_Side on
    Sceptre
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I should try and play Pudge.

    Never really "got" the hero, and playing with/against him he's always an everywhere-death-machine or a free-kill.

    And learning skill-shot heroes is never fun in a pub environment, since they can get toxic really quickly.

    But he's different from the other heroes that I usually play, and I need to branch out a bit more.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
This discussion has been closed.