blood DK arena might be the funniest thing in the world
sadface
It would make my pvp life SO much better if I could do that damn glad sanctum FFA thing at least once a week, but the blood dks and rets say nope.
i literally just don't die
i pair with a fury warrior
against double dps comps, he gets bursted down, but the other two opponents can't kill me and I just wear them down. The exception is Ret/Ret as they have absurd healing
Against a healer comp, we rely on bursting down the healer before he dies, but if that happens we also win, because nobody can outlast a blood DK one on one.
Just a heads up to anyone checking this thread but not the private convo, or to anyone who isn't signed up with us but would like to go:
Alliance Highmaul Normal raid tonight, grabbing who we can from here then LFGing the rest. We'll aim to start at 7pm CST (just under 12 hours from when I'm posting this). We have room for just about anything.
Reqs: 625+ ilvl, at the very least know the LFR versions of fights, and get Mumble installed so you can listen even if you can't speak.
We'll be using Personal loot, because pugs. If you're looking for a group to 1-shot everything straight through, move along--we haven't gotten in there much, since we started late and then holidays.
That was my biggest gripe about tanking in WoD, cooldowns aren't for oh shit moments, they're part of your rotation now.
That's the thing though - my DK does not use his cooldowns on cooldown (heh). I use them, as they should be, for oh-shit moments, or to allow me to pull 3-4 trash packs. Death Strike is more than sufficient to deal with periods of high damage from trash because of Resolve. On high resolve levels it's not uncommon to see a 200k+ Death strike with the accompanying 80k absorb shield, and a DK can death strike about as often as a paladin can ShoR.
This may be the disconnect I'm having with other tanks.
Until I hit 645, I really had to use my defensive cooldowns liberally to tank 2 adds.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
That was my biggest gripe about tanking in WoD, cooldowns aren't for oh shit moments, they're part of your rotation now.
That's the thing though - my DK does not use his cooldowns on cooldown (heh). I use them, as they should be, for oh-shit moments, or to allow me to pull 3-4 trash packs. Death Strike is more than sufficient to deal with periods of high damage from trash because of Resolve. On high resolve levels it's not uncommon to see a 200k+ Death strike with the accompanying 80k absorb shield, and a DK can death strike about as often as a paladin can ShoR.
This may be the disconnect I'm having with other tanks.
Until I hit 645, I really had to use my defensive cooldowns liberally to tank 2 adds.
I frequently forget about my CDs as a blood DK in heroics (bosses and single packs). Big spike? Good thing I have this Death Strike waiting to bring me back up. I feel like I'm really good at covering individual spikes myself; higher-than-normal sustained damage is a bit harder (but actually using cooldowns make that much easier).
My ilvl is 640, and while tanking without cooldowns wasn't really a breeze right when I jumped in heroics, once I was in the 630ish range, grabbing multiple packs and chain pulling became the norm.
Though I can pop guardian and just keep healing myself with WoG over 10 seconds or so. But most dps in heroics are barely breaking 15k so that's risky to pull more than a group.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2014
I'm at ilevel653 and pulling multiple packs is trivial even in challenge modes. I can do it without rolling cooldowns, though it can be dicey and I have to be very careful with each death strike to maximise my Resolve benefit. But with cooldowns, it's easy. And in heroics I basically can do anything i want. I've ended up with the whole last train car in Grimrail heroic and come out alive.
As for DPS being low, as a Blood DK I'm averaging 35k DPS overall in an average 5man.
It's pretty usual for me to be over 50% of the total damage done in the group, even with 640+ DPS.
I'm at ilevel653 and pulling multiple packs is trivial even in challenge modes. I can do it without rolling cooldowns, though it can be dicey and I have to be very careful with each death strike to maximise my Resolve benefit. But with cooldowns, it's easy. And in heroics I basically can do anything i want. I've ended up with the whole last train car in Grimrail heroic and come out alive.
As for DPS being low, as a Blood DK I'm averaging 35k DPS overall in an average 5man.
It's pretty usual for me to be over 50% of the total damage done in the group, even with 640+ DPS.
It feels like I'm playing a different game again.
I have yet to see people break 20k in 10 man highmaul. The only people that do are the ones from my guild. Even the ones we pug into or we pug from never seem to go above 15k.
I complained about something similar in wrath when you all were done with naxx on release night. I guess everyone was doing like 8k-10k and everything I was getting and seeing was showing 1.5-3k.
I'm using recount so I'm not sure if that's the difference but these numbers don't seem to match up at all. Hell even using something like spellflash and following shit like icyveins to the tee doesn't seem to do anything noticeably different to change the numbers, not that much. The people who are trying to max out their gear and gems (lol wut gems) don't seem to be doing that much more DPS.
Even on my paladin on a group pull with the aoe damage hammer and the group seal I'll be lucky to break 25k.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
In addition to Nagrand, most basic crafting gear is 640 and you can equip 3 of those (though if you can't craft them yourself it can be expensive on the AH).
I think you can also get a weapon by doing the Proving Ground quest in your Garrison.
Additionally, most of the Draenor reputations have a 615 trinket for sale in Ashran for for 500g at...Honored I think?
You can also fill slots with the Honor-bought PVP gear, also in Ashran.
Also, start the quest for the legendary ring, because all you have to do to get the first part of it (epic ring) is run normal Skyreach once.
If you have level 100 followers, they should also have missions available for level 615 gear.
Lastly, if you can equip daggers you can aim for the Winterveil one. It doesn't have the greatest droprate, but on my server they are down to 2,000g on the AH.
I'm at ilevel653 and pulling multiple packs is trivial even in challenge modes. I can do it without rolling cooldowns, though it can be dicey and I have to be very careful with each death strike to maximise my Resolve benefit. But with cooldowns, it's easy. And in heroics I basically can do anything i want. I've ended up with the whole last train car in Grimrail heroic and come out alive.
As for DPS being low, as a Blood DK I'm averaging 35k DPS overall in an average 5man.
It's pretty usual for me to be over 50% of the total damage done in the group, even with 640+ DPS.
It feels like I'm playing a different game again.
I have yet to see people break 20k in 10 man highmaul. The only people that do are the ones from my guild. Even the ones we pug into or we pug from never seem to go above 15k.
I complained about something similar in wrath when you all were done with naxx on release night. I guess everyone was doing like 8k-10k and everything I was getting and seeing was showing 1.5-3k.
I'm using recount so I'm not sure if that's the difference but these numbers don't seem to match up at all. Hell even using something like spellflash and following shit like icyveins to the tee doesn't seem to do anything noticeably different to change the numbers, not that much. The people who are trying to max out their gear and gems (lol wut gems) don't seem to be doing that much more DPS.
Even on my paladin on a group pull with the aoe damage hammer and the group seal I'll be lucky to break 25k.
FWIW, Recount has not worked right for me since WoD came out. Not that the numbers were necessarily wrong, but it kept having all sorts of glitches that I haven't seen since switching to skada.
And are you looking at numbers for a single fight or for the whole instance? I never look at numbers for the entire instance since trash packs will throw off all the numbers (either people go crazy and inflate their numbers sky high or they save all their cooldowns and make their numbers look much lower than normal)
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I'm at ilevel653 and pulling multiple packs is trivial even in challenge modes. I can do it without rolling cooldowns, though it can be dicey and I have to be very careful with each death strike to maximise my Resolve benefit. But with cooldowns, it's easy. And in heroics I basically can do anything i want. I've ended up with the whole last train car in Grimrail heroic and come out alive.
As for DPS being low, as a Blood DK I'm averaging 35k DPS overall in an average 5man.
It's pretty usual for me to be over 50% of the total damage done in the group, even with 640+ DPS.
It feels like I'm playing a different game again.
I have yet to see people break 20k in 10 man highmaul. The only people that do are the ones from my guild. Even the ones we pug into or we pug from never seem to go above 15k.
I complained about something similar in wrath when you all were done with naxx on release night. I guess everyone was doing like 8k-10k and everything I was getting and seeing was showing 1.5-3k.
I'm using recount so I'm not sure if that's the difference but these numbers don't seem to match up at all. Hell even using something like spellflash and following shit like icyveins to the tee doesn't seem to do anything noticeably different to change the numbers, not that much. The people who are trying to max out their gear and gems (lol wut gems) don't seem to be doing that much more DPS.
Even on my paladin on a group pull with the aoe damage hammer and the group seal I'll be lucky to break 25k.
Bloodboil is op as shit for blood DKs, so lump it in with SEF and fire nova as mechanics that sort of break with AoE to be done.
My guild just killed heroic butcher and we were ranging from 23k to about 19k, with tanks at 15k (brm monk) and 12k (blurd dk), but that was digging deep on extra damage prepotting and using augment runes and all manner of crap as we had 4 3% wipes. Pots are currently huge dps increases if you prepot and then pot again during lust or when your cooldowns are up. They're like a 25-30% increase in primary stat for 25 seconds, which is gigantic.
Recount seems fine. It was broken at the launch of WoD and threw up errors. I switched to Skada for a little while. I can't remember what the situation was but I realized I was getting bogus results from Skada during a dungeon or a raid and I switched back. Since then it has been absolutely fine aside from having trouble detecting raw DPS on Ko'ragh due to absorb mechanics.
Blood DKs are just overpowered. Not significantly overpowered when it comes to mitigation but absolutely overpowered when it comes to AoE damage and possibly control. Actually most tanks more or less match or exceed them in control. Brewmaster Monks can reliably 50% snare just like DKs and have a faster and more reliable AoE stun on shorter cooldown. Ox statue and The White Tiger offer unique defensive cooldowns that are very effective against adds or in Challenge Mode situations. Likewise Warriors can get that snaring shout + shockwave + gag order. Their burst mitigation seems weaker than DKs.
It's really only Paladins who have no AoE stun (to my knowledge) and no spammable snare that makes me wonder "How the fuck do you beat challenge modes with these guys?". That being said I've actually healed for a Paladin tank in a CM and either got Silver or missed it just barely. He was gungho and felt pretty squishy during our AoE pulls where we had few stuns but perfectly passable.
It's really just Blood Boil's damage that pushes blood DKs over in my experience. I've done 5 silver CMs with mine and that kind of AoE DPS is invaluable in such a circumstance. In pug'd Tectus Normal runs I can likewise get second place DPS as a tank squeezing in extra AoE damage.
I absolutely contend that you can "pull multiple CM packs without cooldowns". Uhm. This is only true with very specific packs in my experience. Grimrail has a few packs where you can pretty much pull an entire train cabin and be okay as long as you kite them and rotate in stuns while you're not keeping your distance. I've done that. There are other packs like the first 3 in Auchindoun where the dangerous mob abilities will pressure you significantly but the real threat is the abilities will overwhelm your group/heal the mobs too much for any AoE DPS to really matter. I suppose I would concede that I can stay alive as a Blood DK on some of those pulls but not everyone else will. They die and then I die.
No one essentially breaks 20k on most fights. Fights like brakkenspore my guildies will essentially put up 18k average.
But then I see posts like here where people are sad they're only pulling that much at the 620-645 and others confirming that 25-30k is the average DPS they pull.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Recount seems fine. It was broken at the launch of WoD and threw up errors. I switched to Skada for a little while. I can't remember what the situation was but I realized I was getting bogus results from Skada during a dungeon or a raid and I switched back. Since then it has been absolutely fine aside from having trouble detecting raw DPS on Ko'ragh due to absorb mechanics.
Blood DKs are just overpowered. Not significantly overpowered when it comes to mitigation but absolutely overpowered when it comes to AoE damage and possibly control. Actually most tanks more or less match or exceed them in control. Brewmaster Monks can reliably 50% snare just like DKs and have a faster and more reliable AoE stun on shorter cooldown. Ox statue and The White Tiger offer unique defensive cooldowns that are very effective against adds or in Challenge Mode situations. Likewise Warriors can get that snaring shout + shockwave + gag order. Their burst mitigation seems weaker than DKs.
It's really only Paladins who have no AoE stun (to my knowledge) and no spammable snare that makes me wonder "How the fuck do you beat challenge modes with these guys?". That being said I've actually healed for a Paladin tank in a CM and either got Silver or missed it just barely. He was gungho and felt pretty squishy during our AoE pulls where we had few stuns but perfectly passable.
It's really just Blood Boil's damage that pushes blood DKs over in my experience. I've done 5 silver CMs with mine and that kind of AoE DPS is invaluable in such a circumstance. In pug'd Tectus Normal runs I can likewise get second place DPS as a tank squeezing in extra AoE damage.
I absolutely contend that you can "pull multiple CM packs without cooldowns". Uhm. This is only true with very specific packs in my experience. Grimrail has a few packs where you can pretty much pull an entire train cabin and be okay as long as you kite them and rotate in stuns while you're not keeping your distance. I've done that. There are other packs like the first 3 in Auchindoun where the dangerous mob abilities will pressure you significantly but the real threat is the abilities will overwhelm your group/heal the mobs too much for any AoE DPS to really matter. I suppose I would concede that I can stay alive as a Blood DK on some of those pulls but not everyone else will. They die and then I die.
Actually blinding light works okay as a stun similar to shockwave. It's not perfect, but it's okay.
I'd rather have repent though.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
No one essentially breaks 20k on most fights. Fights like brakkenspore my guildies will essentially put up 18k average.
But then I see posts like here where people are sad they're only pulling that much at the 620-645 and others confirming that 25-30k is the average DPS they pull.
My mage is ilvl 650.
Some fights, it depends on the mechanics. Like for Brak, last night I was well over 26k as an arcane mage in heroic. The blue mushrooms regen mana like crazy, which is extremely sweet for arcane mages. I could probably push that much higher, honestly. I miss out on dps a little because my guild is (thankfully) big on mechanics and sometimes I lose a cast or two just dealing with adds.
But for a normal tank and spank, 23k is easy for me to get. I imagine I'll get 24 or 25 today on Kargath after my upgrades.
When I started raiding, I was right around ilvl 630 and pulling 19-20k consistently on most fights (except tectus. God I suck at that fight.) Part of that was being lucky in heroics though. I had mastery drops on most every piece. Now, after raiding, my relative mastery has gone down a ton so, likely if I had better itemization at 650 I could pull much, much higher numbers. I'm sure some classes get decent itemization in Highmaul and that's who is talking about pulling 30k easily. (My guess).
Anyway, in my experience, nobody in the 620 range is pulling 25k, except on very favorable mechanics. 645, sure, if they have a nice weapon. That's 25 ilvls though and that's a monster amount of upgrades.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Man I thought being ilvl 640 was a major accomplishment, but sounds like that is noobsauce.
I'm sad to say that I'm having...issues getting Silver in Proving Grounds as Feral. I seem to mess up on the packs, especially wave 5(?), with the healer.
Well heroic highmaul is dropping 670, so it's going to get even higher when BRF hits. I'm waiting to see what the common minimum ilvl pugs ask for. Generally it's the same as what drops in that difficulty (because carry me please) but right now heroic pugs are asking for 650. It's surprisingly low.
No one essentially breaks 20k on most fights. Fights like brakkenspore my guildies will essentially put up 18k average.
But then I see posts like here where people are sad they're only pulling that much at the 620-645 and others confirming that 25-30k is the average DPS they pull.
My mage is ilvl 650.
Some fights, it depends on the mechanics. Like for Brak, last night I was well over 26k as an arcane mage in heroic. The blue mushrooms regen mana like crazy, which is extremely sweet for arcane mages. I could probably push that much higher, honestly. I miss out on dps a little because my guild is (thankfully) big on mechanics and sometimes I lose a cast or two just dealing with adds.
But for a normal tank and spank, 23k is easy for me to get. I imagine I'll get 24 or 25 today on Kargath after my upgrades.
When I started raiding, I was right around ilvl 630 and pulling 19-20k consistently on most fights (except tectus. God I suck at that fight.) Part of that was being lucky in heroics though. I had mastery drops on most every piece. Now, after raiding, my relative mastery has gone down a ton so, likely if I had better itemization at 650 I could pull much, much higher numbers. I'm sure some classes get decent itemization in Highmaul and that's who is talking about pulling 30k easily. (My guess).
Anyway, in my experience, nobody in the 620 range is pulling 25k, except on very favorable mechanics. 645, sure, if they have a nice weapon. That's 25 ilvls though and that's a monster amount of upgrades.
This is a bit more in line with what I'm seeing, but even people in full 645 are having a hard time breaking 20k.
Seems it's the weapons more than anything, I'm pretty much the only one in guild with a purple weapon.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Getting to 615 should be trivial. A few hours of questing in Nagrand and killing the rares you find will get you at least that high.
Easy way to do this is don't do nagrand until you hit 100 and as soon as you hit 100 plop out the dwarven bunker. Now go do nagrand quests and you will get enough purple upgrades from quests/treasure stuff to put you past 615 without really having to step foot in a normal mode dungeon.
No one essentially breaks 20k on most fights. Fights like brakkenspore my guildies will essentially put up 18k average.
But then I see posts like here where people are sad they're only pulling that much at the 620-645 and others confirming that 25-30k is the average DPS they pull.
My mage is ilvl 650.
Some fights, it depends on the mechanics. Like for Brak, last night I was well over 26k as an arcane mage in heroic. The blue mushrooms regen mana like crazy, which is extremely sweet for arcane mages. I could probably push that much higher, honestly. I miss out on dps a little because my guild is (thankfully) big on mechanics and sometimes I lose a cast or two just dealing with adds.
But for a normal tank and spank, 23k is easy for me to get. I imagine I'll get 24 or 25 today on Kargath after my upgrades.
When I started raiding, I was right around ilvl 630 and pulling 19-20k consistently on most fights (except tectus. God I suck at that fight.) Part of that was being lucky in heroics though. I had mastery drops on most every piece. Now, after raiding, my relative mastery has gone down a ton so, likely if I had better itemization at 650 I could pull much, much higher numbers. I'm sure some classes get decent itemization in Highmaul and that's who is talking about pulling 30k easily. (My guess).
Anyway, in my experience, nobody in the 620 range is pulling 25k, except on very favorable mechanics. 645, sure, if they have a nice weapon. That's 25 ilvls though and that's a monster amount of upgrades.
This is a bit more in line with what I'm seeing, but even people in full 645 are having a hard time breaking 20k.
Seems it's the weapons more than anything, I'm pretty much the only one in guild with a purple weapon.
Yup my 630 weapon is really holding me back badly. I am tempted to try to buy an upgraded crafted one if I get skunked on weapon drops again this week.
It still annoys me how much of your damage is based entirely on your weapon(s). Melee have all their abilities based on weapon damage, and casters get like a full quarter of their spellpower from just their weapon. It's kinda ridiculous. They tried to tone down how much of an impact trinkets had on damage, but they left weapons just as they were.
Getting to 615 should be trivial. A few hours of questing in Nagrand and killing the rares you find will get you at least that high.
Easy way to do this is don't do nagrand until you hit 100 and as soon as you hit 100 plop out the dwarven bunker. Now go do nagrand quests and you will get enough purple upgrades from quests/treasure stuff to put you past 615 without really having to step foot in a normal mode dungeon.
Seriously. That damn bunker is my favorite building right now. It's upgraded two separate blue items to warforged for my dopey little shammy in the last 3 days.
OK, I don't have proof that it's the reason, but still. Since building it, I get noticeably more upgrades. And I'm not sure if it's the reason, but I've also been getting lots more blue and purple follower weapon/armor upgrades.
It still annoys me how much of your damage is based entirely on your weapon(s). Melee have all their abilities based on weapon damage, and casters get like a full quarter of their spellpower from just their weapon. It's kinda ridiculous. They tried to tone down how much of an impact trinkets had on damage, but they left weapons just as they were.
They want weapons to be the most important. Trinkets at some points through the game post weapon speed normalization were better than weapons and they didn't want that.
Main difference there is with the crafted weapons, you can get the stats you actually need. That and some weapons just... don't really drop. Poor Dagger Rogues.
I did LFR Kargath just now, and I was at 27k at the end. Just missed an arcane power cooldown as well. Pretty decent for my ilvl I think. 28.5 on Butcher. Hell yeah.
Getting to 615 should be trivial. A few hours of questing in Nagrand and killing the rares you find will get you at least that high.
Easy way to do this is don't do nagrand until you hit 100 and as soon as you hit 100 plop out the dwarven bunker. Now go do nagrand quests and you will get enough purple upgrades from quests/treasure stuff to put you past 615 without really having to step foot in a normal mode dungeon.
Damn. I just replaced that bunker today as it wasn't doing anything for me.
Then again, I am at 614 at the moment. One upgrade of my gun or goggles should put me past 615.
Oh, so that's why my DPS as shadow was totally gimped. Was running the Mind Harvest glyph, which in retrospect was a completely dumb thing to do in a spec all about MB'ing things all the time. That doubled cooldown was killer.
LFR Brak was back to around 18k DPS.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
If they want weapons to be most important, they also need to be the most plentiful. Which definitely is not true for certain classes and specs
I have done 6/7 the last two weeks on high maul normal and done full run of LFR and never yet seen a weapon drop for anybody. Its getting close to the point I just throw money at the problem and get a crafted one and upgraded it.
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sadface
It would make my pvp life SO much better if I could do that damn glad sanctum FFA thing at least once a week, but the blood dks and rets say nope.
i literally just don't die
i pair with a fury warrior
against double dps comps, he gets bursted down, but the other two opponents can't kill me and I just wear them down. The exception is Ret/Ret as they have absurd healing
Against a healer comp, we rely on bursting down the healer before he dies, but if that happens we also win, because nobody can outlast a blood DK one on one.
Alliance Highmaul Normal raid tonight, grabbing who we can from here then LFGing the rest. We'll aim to start at 7pm CST (just under 12 hours from when I'm posting this). We have room for just about anything.
Reqs: 625+ ilvl, at the very least know the LFR versions of fights, and get Mumble installed so you can listen even if you can't speak.
We'll be using Personal loot, because pugs. If you're looking for a group to 1-shot everything straight through, move along--we haven't gotten in there much, since we started late and then holidays.
Just PM me or @ me if you're interested!
This may be the disconnect I'm having with other tanks.
Until I hit 645, I really had to use my defensive cooldowns liberally to tank 2 adds.
My ilvl is 640, and while tanking without cooldowns wasn't really a breeze right when I jumped in heroics, once I was in the 630ish range, grabbing multiple packs and chain pulling became the norm.
Though I can pop guardian and just keep healing myself with WoG over 10 seconds or so. But most dps in heroics are barely breaking 15k so that's risky to pull more than a group.
As for DPS being low, as a Blood DK I'm averaging 35k DPS overall in an average 5man.
It's pretty usual for me to be over 50% of the total damage done in the group, even with 640+ DPS.
It feels like I'm playing a different game again.
I have yet to see people break 20k in 10 man highmaul. The only people that do are the ones from my guild. Even the ones we pug into or we pug from never seem to go above 15k.
I complained about something similar in wrath when you all were done with naxx on release night. I guess everyone was doing like 8k-10k and everything I was getting and seeing was showing 1.5-3k.
I'm using recount so I'm not sure if that's the difference but these numbers don't seem to match up at all. Hell even using something like spellflash and following shit like icyveins to the tee doesn't seem to do anything noticeably different to change the numbers, not that much. The people who are trying to max out their gear and gems (lol wut gems) don't seem to be doing that much more DPS.
Even on my paladin on a group pull with the aoe damage hammer and the group seal I'll be lucky to break 25k.
I think you can also get a weapon by doing the Proving Ground quest in your Garrison.
Additionally, most of the Draenor reputations have a 615 trinket for sale in Ashran for for 500g at...Honored I think?
You can also fill slots with the Honor-bought PVP gear, also in Ashran.
Also, start the quest for the legendary ring, because all you have to do to get the first part of it (epic ring) is run normal Skyreach once.
If you have level 100 followers, they should also have missions available for level 615 gear.
Lastly, if you can equip daggers you can aim for the Winterveil one. It doesn't have the greatest droprate, but on my server they are down to 2,000g on the AH.
FWIW, Recount has not worked right for me since WoD came out. Not that the numbers were necessarily wrong, but it kept having all sorts of glitches that I haven't seen since switching to skada.
And are you looking at numbers for a single fight or for the whole instance? I never look at numbers for the entire instance since trash packs will throw off all the numbers (either people go crazy and inflate their numbers sky high or they save all their cooldowns and make their numbers look much lower than normal)
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Bloodboil is op as shit for blood DKs, so lump it in with SEF and fire nova as mechanics that sort of break with AoE to be done.
My guild just killed heroic butcher and we were ranging from 23k to about 19k, with tanks at 15k (brm monk) and 12k (blurd dk), but that was digging deep on extra damage prepotting and using augment runes and all manner of crap as we had 4 3% wipes. Pots are currently huge dps increases if you prepot and then pot again during lust or when your cooldowns are up. They're like a 25-30% increase in primary stat for 25 seconds, which is gigantic.
Blood DKs are just overpowered. Not significantly overpowered when it comes to mitigation but absolutely overpowered when it comes to AoE damage and possibly control. Actually most tanks more or less match or exceed them in control. Brewmaster Monks can reliably 50% snare just like DKs and have a faster and more reliable AoE stun on shorter cooldown. Ox statue and The White Tiger offer unique defensive cooldowns that are very effective against adds or in Challenge Mode situations. Likewise Warriors can get that snaring shout + shockwave + gag order. Their burst mitigation seems weaker than DKs.
It's really only Paladins who have no AoE stun (to my knowledge) and no spammable snare that makes me wonder "How the fuck do you beat challenge modes with these guys?". That being said I've actually healed for a Paladin tank in a CM and either got Silver or missed it just barely. He was gungho and felt pretty squishy during our AoE pulls where we had few stuns but perfectly passable.
It's really just Blood Boil's damage that pushes blood DKs over in my experience. I've done 5 silver CMs with mine and that kind of AoE DPS is invaluable in such a circumstance. In pug'd Tectus Normal runs I can likewise get second place DPS as a tank squeezing in extra AoE damage.
I absolutely contend that you can "pull multiple CM packs without cooldowns". Uhm. This is only true with very specific packs in my experience. Grimrail has a few packs where you can pretty much pull an entire train cabin and be okay as long as you kite them and rotate in stuns while you're not keeping your distance. I've done that. There are other packs like the first 3 in Auchindoun where the dangerous mob abilities will pressure you significantly but the real threat is the abilities will overwhelm your group/heal the mobs too much for any AoE DPS to really matter. I suppose I would concede that I can stay alive as a Blood DK on some of those pulls but not everyone else will. They die and then I die.
No one essentially breaks 20k on most fights. Fights like brakkenspore my guildies will essentially put up 18k average.
But then I see posts like here where people are sad they're only pulling that much at the 620-645 and others confirming that 25-30k is the average DPS they pull.
Actually blinding light works okay as a stun similar to shockwave. It's not perfect, but it's okay.
I'd rather have repent though.
My mage is ilvl 650.
Some fights, it depends on the mechanics. Like for Brak, last night I was well over 26k as an arcane mage in heroic. The blue mushrooms regen mana like crazy, which is extremely sweet for arcane mages. I could probably push that much higher, honestly. I miss out on dps a little because my guild is (thankfully) big on mechanics and sometimes I lose a cast or two just dealing with adds.
But for a normal tank and spank, 23k is easy for me to get. I imagine I'll get 24 or 25 today on Kargath after my upgrades.
When I started raiding, I was right around ilvl 630 and pulling 19-20k consistently on most fights (except tectus. God I suck at that fight.) Part of that was being lucky in heroics though. I had mastery drops on most every piece. Now, after raiding, my relative mastery has gone down a ton so, likely if I had better itemization at 650 I could pull much, much higher numbers. I'm sure some classes get decent itemization in Highmaul and that's who is talking about pulling 30k easily. (My guess).
Anyway, in my experience, nobody in the 620 range is pulling 25k, except on very favorable mechanics. 645, sure, if they have a nice weapon. That's 25 ilvls though and that's a monster amount of upgrades.
Any tips?
This is a bit more in line with what I'm seeing, but even people in full 645 are having a hard time breaking 20k.
Seems it's the weapons more than anything, I'm pretty much the only one in guild with a purple weapon.
Easy way to do this is don't do nagrand until you hit 100 and as soon as you hit 100 plop out the dwarven bunker. Now go do nagrand quests and you will get enough purple upgrades from quests/treasure stuff to put you past 615 without really having to step foot in a normal mode dungeon.
Yup my 630 weapon is really holding me back badly. I am tempted to try to buy an upgraded crafted one if I get skunked on weapon drops again this week.
Seriously. That damn bunker is my favorite building right now. It's upgraded two separate blue items to warforged for my dopey little shammy in the last 3 days.
OK, I don't have proof that it's the reason, but still. Since building it, I get noticeably more upgrades. And I'm not sure if it's the reason, but I've also been getting lots more blue and purple follower weapon/armor upgrades.
They want weapons to be the most important. Trinkets at some points through the game post weapon speed normalization were better than weapons and they didn't want that.
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Damn. I just replaced that bunker today as it wasn't doing anything for me.
Then again, I am at 614 at the moment. One upgrade of my gun or goggles should put me past 615.
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LFR Brak was back to around 18k DPS.
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Depends on whether or not you've already upgraded to level 3. If you have, 1000+. If you haven't, 3000+.
I have done 6/7 the last two weeks on high maul normal and done full run of LFR and never yet seen a weapon drop for anybody. Its getting close to the point I just throw money at the problem and get a crafted one and upgraded it.
I used to get like 300 a pop from the old 100 missions, now I get like 150.
Well in retrospect that's a long time, so you shoulda been doing that from the start!