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[Android:Netrunner] The only time Bad Publicity isn't a thing to worry about.

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Posts

  • CerberusCerberus Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    The one thing that is a bit of a downer about Excalibur for me is that it's unique and doesn't have the Grail ice ability itself (though you can add the sub to other Grail Ice). So I kinda feel like it's the Mother Goddess of the set (like MG is to NEXT Ice).

    I think I'd still run at least one, maybe two, in a deck but I'm still not quite so sure what to make of it.

    Its more useful than Mother Goddess as drawing a second isn't a dead draw since you can add the sub to other Grail ice.
    My plan for my RP deck is to put one on archives to stop the cheap archives run which allows them to bounce to a remote.

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    I did just notice that Excalibur doesn't cost influence, so that's another thing in its favour too!

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    I had actually NOT noticed that, so this definitely helps. 2 influence goes a long way with this plan ...

  • CerberusCerberus Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    I did just notice that Excalibur doesn't cost influence, so that's another thing in its favour too!

    Huh, really? Awesome.

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Behold!

    06111.png

  • CerberusCerberus Registered User regular
    Hmm now I need to think about the ice mix up.

    Drop Pup? Something else?

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Pup is, usually, a tax of 2c per run, or a parasite.

    What are the other ice you're considering dropping compared to it?

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    New article talking about Big Green in O&C, and how they truly are the heroes of the setting.

    persona4celestia.jpg
    COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    That is definitely interesting. Only having the Core and C&C, I have been mostly seeing Weyland Consortium as the "violence" corporation, an aggressive organization that dealt with all sorts of weaponry and was mostly separated from the mafia in that the mafia can't bomb your entire zip code and get away with it in their pursuit of a bigger buck.

    This article seems to paint Weyland more on the "burning zealot" position, a man with a dream that would be actually kind of good, but who is absolutely not concerned about how many kneecaps he has to break to get there. Which is rather more interesting as an adversary, I must say.

    EDIT: On the flavor note... is there any place where one can read the short stories and mini-bios in the packs and manuals online? I kinda wanted to show one of my friends the Creation and Control Manual so he'd undertsand why I'm making a Kit deck for no other reason than "I like her".

    Drascin on
    Steam ID: Right here.
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    Look, strange bioroids, laying in pods, distributing ICE is no basis for system security!

    Supreme Corporate Power derives from controlling interest in the Beanstock, not from some farcical IT ceremony!

    tzeentchling
  • QuantumTurkQuantumTurk Registered User regular
    Ahhh I get to go play with PEOPLE today. My all core decks hastily assembled shall...shall...well lets hope the people are nice.

    CerberusArcticLancertzeentchling
  • grungeboxgrungebox Registered User regular
    Cerberus wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    The one thing that is a bit of a downer about Excalibur for me is that it's unique and doesn't have the Grail ice ability itself (though you can add the sub to other Grail Ice). So I kinda feel like it's the Mother Goddess of the set (like MG is to NEXT Ice).

    I think I'd still run at least one, maybe two, in a deck but I'm still not quite so sure what to make of it.

    Its more useful than Mother Goddess as drawing a second isn't a dead draw since you can add the sub to other Grail ice.
    My plan for my RP deck is to put one on archives to stop the cheap archives run which allows them to bounce to a remote.

    I played against a friend whose RP did just that the other day. It's highly useful, being Mythic, and a good thing it's unique.

    Quail is just hipster chicken
  • grungeboxgrungebox Registered User regular
    I've been playing Grail in Cerebral Imaging, because I'll always have the cards in hand, but it never seems to work extremely well. Part of it is that it's not that hard to break any of the ice, so if they also slow down and build a rig, they can pretty simply get through. I'm still waiting for the triple-merlin kill though. Someday!

    Grail is just funny ice. Taxing-ish, deadly if facechecked, but ultimately not super effective once the runner gets set up, and it necessarily eats up space in your hand you might want for other things.

    I've been doing two things with Grail: Grail CI and Grail PE.

    Grail CI:
    This deck is lousy even though it sounded good in my head when I built it. Most people are slow against CI, building up a rig and/or multi-access to get ready for Legwork/etc. And as you say the ice are actually pretty easy to break when they have a rig, they're really best to counter suboptimal or educated facechecking (i.e. SIphon with only Corroder and Faerie). I've had, interestingly, the best success against Andromeda. Against Shaper the deck just straight up loses. So a lot of the time the ice are just a mild tax, which HB already has in-faction anyway. I think I've won 1 or 2 games, mostly against people that aren't familiar with the ice.

    Grail PE:
    Okay, this is a little more fun. The advantage is that people don't often Legwork against PE, and you don't get as agenda flooded because you can install naked agendas and just not score them, people tend to be careful. An aggressive Runner just needs to hit one or two Snares/Psychic Fields in a remote before they slow down. This deck needs Midori, I think, so I can bring out the right Grail at the right time. I've only Flatlined with Merlin once, but it definitely slows them down. And it's super fun :)

    Quail is just hipster chicken
  • QuantumTurkQuantumTurk Registered User regular
    Yay, people were nice, got a few games in, and got to try out some other people's decks. I made sure to pick up a game one my way out since apparently this shop is new to having netrunner people, wanted to make sure the LGS saw us buying something. Now I just have to start thinking about data pack acquisition in terms of order as well as if I go online to save the money or buy from the shop to encourage them. Moral dillemmaaass.

    More gamey topic though: how bad do ya'll feel the prevalence of jackson howard neuters noise? Because I'd really like to run a noise deck, but it seems like a high Jackson meta just makes that a bit self defeating.

    tzeentchling
  • EndaroEndaro Registered User regular
    More gamey topic though: how bad do ya'll feel the prevalence of jackson howard neuters noise? Because I'd really like to run a noise deck, but it seems like a high Jackson meta just makes that a bit self defeating.

    Noise is fun! It's a complicated question. Noise has had a bit of a resurgence lately, and might be the most successful curent Anarch runner. You have to keep in mind, though, that this is largely due to cards now available in the meta. The third data pack cycle brought in cards like Cache which has caused Noise to recover, he was very successful during the first cycle but definitely slumped in the second (when TagMe Reina was the dominant Anarch).

    There's a humorous theory that rather than Jackson countering Noise, Noise counters Jackson. The theory goes that Jackson Howard is such a great card (free, low influence, card draw on top of recursion and agenda flood protection), that just about any corp would use him anyways, regardless of how prevalent Noise is. This is at least borne out by how popular Howard remained after Noise fell in the second cycle. Noise virus mills force a corp to trash and use Howard sooner than they'd prefer, wasted on recovering from a mill rather than regaining desired cards.

    In the end, I'd say build it. If you're missing some cards you might not win some tournaments but you'll still have fun. Jhoward just means you have to check Archives more often and can't sit back to win in one run. You still have all the other fun Anarch tools to use as well.

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Well, I now have some fancy new tokens. Haven't had a chance to use them yet, but should soon into the new year.
    B5ruaNBCMAAGwzS.jpg

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Quantronic Dreamgirl Registered User regular
    So I've being getting into this through @Blue map‌ and OCTGN. Likely can't justify buying the actual packs due to a lack of local players but it's definitely alot of fun. I've mostly being playing a dumb Stealth Kit deck that I can never quite get the balance on between draw, fake economy and real economy.

    Though it's had uh... hilarious results at times:
    s6kiq6d.jpg

  • QuantumTurkQuantumTurk Registered User regular
    Endaro wrote: »
    More gamey topic though: how bad do ya'll feel the prevalence of jackson howard neuters noise? Because I'd really like to run a noise deck, but it seems like a high Jackson meta just makes that a bit self defeating.

    Noise is fun! It's a complicated question. Noise has had a bit of a resurgence lately, and might be the most successful curent Anarch runner. You have to keep in mind, though, that this is largely due to cards now available in the meta. The third data pack cycle brought in cards like Cache which has caused Noise to recover, he was very successful during the first cycle but definitely slumped in the second (when TagMe Reina was the dominant Anarch).

    There's a humorous theory that rather than Jackson countering Noise, Noise counters Jackson. The theory goes that Jackson Howard is such a great card (free, low influence, card draw on top of recursion and agenda flood protection), that just about any corp would use him anyways, regardless of how prevalent Noise is. This is at least borne out by how popular Howard remained after Noise fell in the second cycle. Noise virus mills force a corp to trash and use Howard sooner than they'd prefer, wasted on recovering from a mill rather than regaining desired cards.

    In the end, I'd say build it. If you're missing some cards you might not win some tournaments but you'll still have fun. Jhoward just means you have to check Archives more often and can't sit back to win in one run. You still have all the other fun Anarch tools to use as well.

    I mostly agree with this, and like the reverse take on Noise v Jackson. I have no real intention to win anything anytime soon, it is really just about my tolerance for the annoyance of "ok, so I access your archives.... annnd you removed all agendas with jackson, again" Though once I get some I'm sure I'll be just pleased as punch as the corp to have such cheap, versatile card draw.

    Another question, I've noticed that netrunner, wayyyy more so than magic (at least when I played MTG)..everyone is using playmats. Why is this exactly? Because they are common prizes or do people have that much trouble with cards sliding around?

  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    I haven't played in over a week and this is UNACCEPTABLE

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
    ArcticLancertzeentchlingCerberusMikey CTS
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    I haven't played in over a week and this is UNACCEPTABLE

    Could be worse, I havn't had a chance to play since GenCon.

    (Curse the lack of a local meta that meets on a day that I can actually make.)

    persona4celestia.jpg
    COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Tournament tomorrow! Tweaked versions of the same decks I played last time. Expect to fail much more miserably this time!

    ETA: Indeed, more failure than before. My NEH deck killed a Reina and beat a CT and a Quetzal, but lost to a Gabe when I couldn't draw a piece of ice in my first 5 draws.

    Leela excelled against one CI deck (corps with bad opening hands get punished) and a HB EtF deck, but failed against an RP deck (after getting to 6!) and another CI deck. That deck got to do a fantastic turn to win, though:

    Board state is a single unrezzed ice on R&D and HQ, I know R&D is a Mother Goddess that I have no way to break. He's got a 3-counter Vitruvius scored, about 11 credits, and all 3 Biotic Labors are used. I've got two Crash Space in play and 3 cards in hand, and 5 credits.

    I drop Sneakdoor and use it twice (down to 1 credit); he rezzes Panic Button and draws 8 more cards. After two runs with a HQI in play I've stolen a Pri Req, bounce the R&D ice, and run R&D and steal a second Pri Req. His turn is as follows:

    1. Reclamation Order the Biotic Labors (1 click left)
    2. Biotic Labor (2 clicks left)
    3. Biotic Labor (3 clicks left)
    4. Reuse for 13 cards/26 credits (1 click left)
    5. Biotic Labor (2 clicks left). Use Vitruvius counter for Biotic Labor.
    6. Biotic Labor (3 clicks left). Use Vitruvius counter for Biotic Labor.
    7. Biotic Labor (4 clicks left).
    8. SEA Source, gives me a tag (I had 1 credit only). (3 clicks left)
    9. Scorched Earth. Kills a card and one Crash Space. (2 clicks left)
    10. Scorched Earth. Kills a card and the other Crash Space. Use Vitruvius counter for Scorched Earth. (1 click left)
    11. Scorched Earth for the kill.

    Wasn't even mad, that was awesome.

    tzeentchling on
    Shorty
  • QuantumTurkQuantumTurk Registered User regular
    I just noticed, and maybe everyone else knows this, but Lexxy? (not looking up how she does her name on the forums) did card art! at least pad campaign and now sage! That is pretty cool to actually recognize an artist for once in a game!

    jakobagger
  • EpimerEpimer Registered User regular
    Nuts to everything: I'm making a Professor deck.

    PMAversOne Thousand Cables
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    I just noticed, and maybe everyone else knows this, but Lexxy? (not looking up how she does her name on the forums) did card art! at least pad campaign and now sage! That is pretty cool to actually recognize an artist for once in a game!

    I realized this when I met her at East last year and she had prints. She also did Precognition and Nisei MkII. I bought some of her prints, but none of the netrunner ones. I regret that ...

  • EpimerEpimer Registered User regular
    Looks like I'll be missing out on this round of Store Champs unless one of the handful within range is delayed into March. Oh well, fingers crossed for Regionals!

  • CerberusCerberus Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    I haven't played in over a week and this is UNACCEPTABLE

    I need a fix!

    ShortyArcticLancerOne Thousand CablesMeloku
  • Blue mapBlue map Hello darkness, my old friend. Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    I just noticed, and maybe everyone else knows this, but Lexxy? (not looking up how she does her name on the forums) did card art! at least pad campaign and now sage! That is pretty cool to actually recognize an artist for once in a game!
    She also did the art for Errand Boy.

    Blue map on
    My Steam profile thing: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Blue_map/ Battlenet: BlueMap#1493
  • epicfailzepicfailz Plymouth, MIRegistered User regular
    Blue map wrote: »
    I just noticed, and maybe everyone else knows this, but Lexxy? (not looking up how she does her name on the forums) did card art! at least pad campaign and now sage! That is pretty cool to actually recognize an artist for once in a game!
    She also did the art for Errand Boy.

    She's offered to sign my cards before. I got too busy during East and never got to follow up on it.

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    ...
    If she is there again this year, I need to do that.

  • CerberusCerberus Registered User regular
    Managed to get in a few games tonight. I'm loving Leela still but I'm not fully happy with the build. Nearly there with her I think.
    I'm also loving my Grail RP deck, it really is solid in the early game when RP is normally weakest. Definitely has potential.

  • QuantumTurkQuantumTurk Registered User regular
    Boooo just got sniped on someones collection on ebay. Granted it went for a bit more than what I set my personal limit at, but still. Stay away from my hypothetical stuff people!

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    @Cerberus I wouldn't mind seeing your updated decklists for those, I was pretty strongly leaning towards playing Leela at the casual tournament here next monday and I've been itching to try out Grail Ice properly too, so maybe I'll give your lists a spin (with meta relevant changes, though) and get you a second opinion?

  • CerberusCerberus Registered User regular
    @Anzekay‌ I will link to them when I'm home from work and I've updated them.

    Do you have The Source yet? I have lists with cards I'd add if you do. Still not got it in the UK :(

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    It's in the mail, should hopefully get here by monday. Hopefully!

    Geth
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    I'm heading home in a couple of hours, so I'm going to pick your brain on the matter when i get back. Was actually thinking about our previous RP talk a bunch last night.

    Cerberus
  • CerberusCerberus Registered User regular
    Cool I will send you the lists for both versions then, just in case.

  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    So apparently there's a twitter ruling from Lukas that makes IT department work differently (Rather than a one-time check the boost is a continuous reference) from how most people thought it worked and its far less powerful.

    Maybe below the threshold of being a useful click? Rez and three clicks giving you a max of +5 rather than +10 if I maths right?

    There go a bunch of crazy ideas I was having out of industrial genomics :<

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Care to elaborate, because I would have always expected that, as a self-referential card, it was a continuous-update. I still thought it was good working that way anyway, so ... I see no problem with it.

  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Care to elaborate, because I would have always expected that, as a self-referential card, it was a continuous-update. I still thought it was good working that way anyway, so ... I see no problem with it.

    As I understand it:
    Interpretation A (how a lot of people thought it worked because it sounds very similar to the way Datasucker works)
    IT department has 3 counters
    Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department checks how many counters are currently on it (2) and gives an ICE a bonus of +3 strength.
    Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department checks how many counters are currently on it (1) and gives an ICE a bonus of +2 strength. ICE is now at +5 strength
    Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department checks how many counters are currently on it (0) and gives an ICE a bonus of +1 strength. ICE is now at +6 strength

    This interpretation gives geometric returns and gets amazing value/click once you have 5 or more counters already on.

    Interpretation B (What Lukas's ruling seems to indicate)
    IT department has 3 counters
    Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department gives an ICE an ability '+1 strength until the end of the turn for each power counter on IT department (including the one spent)'. ICE has a bonus of +3 strength.
    Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department gives an ICE a second instance of '+1 strength until the end of the turn for each power counter on IT department (including the one spent)'. Since IT has 1 counter on it, the ICE gets two +2's (the current number plus the counter spent in each of their abilities) for a total of +4.
    Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department gives an ICE a third instance of '+1 strength until the end of the turn for each power counter on IT department (including the one spent)'. Since IT has 0 counter on it, the ICE gets three +1's (the current number plus the counter spent in each of their abilities) for a total of +3.

    This does not scale nearly as well on a per click basis and means you have to maintain a power counter reserve on IT department.

    I'm not mad or anything about it, but B is a lot less strong and I think its very easy to be confused by the wording (and better templating exists)

    Dis' on
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Yeah if that's how it's meant to work they fucked up the wording on the card something chronic because it does not imply that at all.

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This discussion has been closed.